Minimum Wage Sucks

[YoungBuck]

Hey fellow vbers,
I was just wondering if anybody was willing to give any advice on making money with vb (or anything else related to the computer) because I just started a new job making minimum wage at a convenience store, and it sucks to know so much about these machines and see so many people making a career of this. If anybody has ANY advice on making a career out of this or any objective comments please feel free. Thanks in advance.

young buck, i can't email you back about the programming group. when i reply it says your email doesn't exist. can i email you somewhere else?

[Nitro]

Well! Well!

I worked for Target as a cashier many, many, many years ago. Believe me! That job sucks big time, but I am glad I had that job and other jobs too. It makes me see another perspective to life.

Here is what I can share with you. Programming is not everything when you come into the real world. Communication is the other half of the game.

I noticed most guys who are really good programmers but lack communication don't move up in rank that fast. On the otherhand, the talkers don't keep their job too long either. Therefore, you need a balance of both.

You can be the most bad ass programmer on earth and you still can end up having a dam **** ass job. If you don't know how to communicate the importance; market yourself; and get along with others, you are just wasting your time breathing.

Here is my formula for you to lead into a good career.

• Communication - comes in many form
• Technical skill - able to design Full System Life Cycle Projects - Understand the business - don't take any job that maintain other people's code unless you know he is a good programmer
• Drive, Determination & Dedication - never give up no matter what
• Have a positive attude & Help others as much as possible. Because the more friends you have, the less stress you have to deal. Programming can be very stressful and make you become negative.

These tips are basic, but most people take them for granted.

Don't be too good in one area and let other area in your life lags such as health. That is the biggest mistake one can do.

I recommend you keep your cashier job for a while and go through the up and down. You will appreciate and understand people more and be able to anticipate their actions. You will learn how to deal with scum bags as well as other type of people. You should sacrifice money for now.

Would you rather win a lottery for 100k(get the money right now) or acquire a talent that will eventually make that 100k as many time as you needed?

As for your first professional job, I recommend you aim for a Fortune 100 company. You should stay there for 1-2 years to get the company's reputation under your belt and understand how politics work. Then I recommend you jump to a small company (20 geeky nerd-ass morons at most) because they will work you to death. This will make you learn so much more because you have to wear different hats.

After that, you can go anywhere you want because you have a big prestige company on your resume and true skills of a fine young lad. You will get job offers left and right because of your big company and get promoted because of your skills.

MBA would be icing on the cake. Don't waste your time with certifications because most certifications eventually becomes outdated. 10,20,30,40 years from now, a MBA will always be a prestige MBA. You don't have to keep updating the dam thing too.

Then again, I am not sure how old you are. The above applies when I was in my teens. I love this because it brings me back!

There are more than one way to skin a dam cat!

[Edited by Nitro on 06-24-2000 at 05:53 AM]

[HDR]

How can I top that! Where I work, we hire programming interns (I use the term hire loosely). They work relaxed hours, so that they can continue school, get no benefits, and get paid minimun wage, but at least they are programming. When their schedules allow full time work, and they have put in some time as an intern, they are made full timers with all of the wages and benefits. Check out the government agencies in your area. They might have similar programs.

[YoungBuck]

Thanks guys I have a start now anyways which is better than I have had with my previous experiences.

[joey o.]

I've got a little advice too. I've just changed my career in the last year from putting in flooring for 16 yrs to computers. What I suggest is unless your on the road to getting an MBA then quit that job and take any job you can with a computer in front of you for whatever they'll give you or even work for free! Even if it's data entry it's still in the computer field and you need to be in that environment. I studied my ass off during a 6 month program, wrote tons of program examples, went for my first interview, and even though the interviewer told me I was the most technically qualified, I lost the job to someone who had "done their time" in data entry. This job paid over 45K a year and only required computer literacy and an apptitude for programming.
I got the point, took a job with a startup, have been in the field for 6 months, and now I'm up for a huge raise and promotion to junior programmer. Finally my computer programming skills are being realized.

I wish you luck.
Joey o

Experience is what IT place look for in prospective employees.

What you need is a job that will let you stick your foot in the IT door. I worked for nearly a year as a programmer and was getting paid £3 per hour (british minimum wage).

the job sucked and all the other people were a$$ holes to me, but i managed to stick at it for months, and they eventually fired me when I had finished renovating their flagging IT department. Nice guys huh!

The thing is, I would rather work for £3 per hour with nice people that i get on well with, then work for £6 per hour with a bunch of self-obsessed brown-nosing sycophantic...you get the picture.

Get out there and get yourself known. Which is exactly what I am trying to do after 4 months of unemployment.

Good luck.

[Sam Finch]

Kepp you Jub for now but talk to people, there will be a great job out thereif you look for it, talk to people, there's bound to be a freind of a freind of a freind whoa can get you some work experience, don't worry about money, just take what you get.

The key when you're in a job is handling the guys in charge. allways suggest ideas and stuff and try to be as helpfull as possible without sucking up. and try to avoid confruntations, you can't win, and on no account let them know that they're stupid.

I got hired as a temp administrative assistant for a small company and was lucky enough to get a seat next to the boss, a month later I was designing logic and component systems and discussing company policy at the AGM. (OK it was a very small company and I was doing it for the same wage and I was doing the admin stuff as well and I'm exadurating but still)

Experience is vital in this business look for a job as hard as you can.


This is completly hypocritical by the way i'm a lazy ****er, I do nothing.

[mallet]

I think this is a terrific thread in that it's loaded with good info and can really motivate ya'.

I came into VB while working a job 3rd shift job (midnight to 7:30 am -- I needed my days free to try to set-up a non-computer business with some friends) doing heavy duty production work using Word, Excel and Powerpoint. Before you know it, I was looking to automate tasks involved with these apps and alt-F11 became a sort of salvation from the bordom of work. Now I work days at the same company (unfortunately the IS dept. is a bunch of cocky luddites who do not take advantage of the customization abilities of MS products) but just the other day, while on the subway home from work, this guy saw me reading a vb referenence and asked me if I was a programmer. I replied not "professionally" but I know many elements of it and I'm learning more and more everyday. Well, this guy is in desparate need of some one to help develop activeX controls for intranet-based training tool for the a huge city agency here where I live (and is willing to work with someone who perhaps is not an expert but knows the basics and is willing to work hard) and after speaking with him again, we have a meeting this Monday to discuss the possibility of my coming on as a consultant. If the money is even close right, I joining because to be emerged in the field on a day-to-day basis is the jumpstart I need to dive in and learn more vb and pick up other skills as well.

I think if you keep plugging along, keep learning and eventually gain confidence in your skills, you can find a job in the field. Plus this forum is such a good learning tool. Thanks for all you help, even if it's been directed to others. I appreciate it.

[invitro]

Wow, ive learned alot from reading all this!... I cant say ive got much to say to this but im just like YoungBuck over there, traying to GET A JOB! Ive been applaying here there and everywhere, but i just cant do it. I live in Calgary and i dont even know where to start looking for a computer job... u gotta be 18 for most of these, like even to work in Radio Shack or Future shop or something, they want 18 year olds. I guess my teenage years look into flipping burgers at minimum wage or gathering shopping carts ourside of safeway.

*Sigh*

Actually im thinking of starting my own company....
The webpage is under development but any advice and comments would be helpfull.

http://www.members.home.net/invitro

There are a couple ISP's around in the area... could i possibly go to these people for a junior programmer job or would that be a stupid idea???????????? Should i apply at every computer store downtown traying to find a job or how would i even approach this?

[Sashko]

Hey everybody,

I'm also a teen looking for a real job. It's true that it is very difficult to find a good paying job if you're under 18 (in which case I am). Minimum wage just doesn't do it. And what kind of promotion can you get from flipping burgers? Yes, a manager sounds good but, wait a second, don't you have to be 18 to be a manager!? Also, what do you learn from flipping burgers?

Communication is definitely a great skill to learn. I totally agree on that one with Nitro. While it's true that you first need to get a "start" in the real world economy before trying to get the best kickass job, it doesn't mean go flip burgers. But if you're talented, and have some skills with VB, C++, or Web Design, what are you waiting for? Are you tired of looking everywhere for a job, not finding one? Start at your school - offer them your services voluntarily. And then ask teachers, or other students interested in that field. Maybe even form a computer club. Eventually someone's friend of a friend will be hiring someone like you and maybe you'll be the lucky one! (That's what I'm trying to do right now)

Also keep these things in mind:

~Networking is very important.
~Help everybody as much as you can.
~Never stop learning. There's always something new out there that's valuable.
~Perseverance is really important. (That's when you're willing to do/finish something when other's give up)
~Being able to clearly communicate ideas/thoughts is invaluable.
~Set goals. (Yeah, this does help a lot)
~Don't make the mistake I made: Don't sit at the computer the whole day. Hang out with some friends. Have some fun. Meet new people.
~And most importantly - always smile! (Oops, off the subject)

I hope some of these tips inspired you.

By the way, like Invitro, I am also trying to make my own business online. I have some high hopes for the future.

Well, good luck,
See ya all l8r.

Sashko ~

I have seen many oters make a small bundle developing software programs for a niche market. Much like the programs you can find on eBay auction house.

Whether you develop a program to create an auction listing, or manage the details of buying and selling, these sell for $20-$30 apiece. Delivered via the Internet, paid for through a number of payment houses, you can make some good coin in your spare time. Probably more so than what you;re doing now.

Look around and see if you can improve on an existing program, or develop one with a different "twist". then put together a website and market your own program!

Why waste work for others when you can work for yourself???

This is why I'm learning VB... To develop a simple program... Sell it for $50-$75... And deliver it as a download.

You don;t have to sell to many to make a decent living! Put your sales process on autopilot and develop yet another small, simple application.

This works! I know people who have done this very same thing!

Good luck!

[REM]

I am after a job now, bit will probably end up working in a book shop or something in the UK (anyhting but flipping burgers in Mc Ds ).

Over the summer i am going to be working on a program idea that I have had that i feel i can make quite a bit of money from. but i have a question from some of the people in this forum who have their own software conmpanies or work for one. Once i have developed the program, how do i go about selling it. Bearing in mind that i am only 16... Please help me, and advise me if you can.

Thanks

Later(z)

REM

hmmmmmmmm... ebay, i never thought of that, I buy stuff all the time, but I never though of selling any of my programs.

Thanks vbMarketer.

I am 13 years old, its summer time, I dont have very many ideas for making a program, and i need a job(I need frontpage 2000, or the whole MS office )
whats the best job for me to get?
I need to make some money before I can start my business, because I need a good hosting service(currently I am using http://www.namezero.com domain, and http://www.geocities.com hosting, geocicities isnt that bad, but take a look at all the runtime errors when you visit my site below(in my sig)).
I am thinking of something like best buy or circuit city in the computer dept. what do you think?
or maybe the software dept?

I would love to work in the software dept, but I have no idea about the differences in all of the programs.
like, I would not know the difference between the cosmopolitan special edition, and the normal editon

please answer soon, because i am planning on checking about a job on monday
just incase you missed it, the question is...
should I work in the software dept. or the computer dept.?

Denniswrenn & REM ~

Another decent option to a Hosting service is www.hypermart.com They offer a Free Hosting plan where your URL would be http://yourname.hypermart.net. They also offer a top Level domain plan where you use companyname.com, but at a price. I don't use them for a paid hosting service.

I use Hypermart to test ideas and once I decide what I want to do, I get my own Dot-Com and host have hosted at Hiway.com. But my next site will be hosted somewhere else I beive is a lot better.

As for the eBay idea... I registered www.AuctionProfits.com and currently have the domain parked. This was my original intention of learning VB. If you cruise eBay, you'll find countless apps where people are selling them up to $30.00. It doesn;t take too many of these in a day or week to make a difference!

To find a product to market, review what others have done at eBay or some other auction house and decide how you can improve or make it better. Even purchase a few to see how they have their payment plan set up, delivery, etc. Once you have the hot little product in your hands... Develop a better one!

If this idea doesn't do it for you... Visit with some business owners in a certain field. Retail, sales, auto parts store, etc. See if they have a problem or idea to make something somehow better. It could be some type of database program, contact manager, whatever.... But developp the first one for Free!!! Use this first contact as a Beta Tester! Work out the bugs!

Then you can contact other businesses like the first one and they will purchase from you if it truly makes their life and business easier to run.

In any marketing effort... Find a need and provide a solution! this is why contact manager programs have done so well and HTML WYSIWYG editors too!

On eBay... Most people want a simpler approach to handling listings, placing listings, tracking sellers and buyers, etc. People also want products on How to make money, and, How to (Fill in the Blank). People LOVE "How to" stuff!!! Look at the back of Popular Mechanic, Popular Science, Mother Earth News, etc. magazines. All loaded with "How to" ads AND making money from it!

If you cannot come up with something on your own... Imitate!!! Improve!!! Once you have something you believe is HOT!!! And if you need some help marketing online... Give me a holler! Heck... I might even take www.AuctionProfits.com and we could all use it and turn a buck or two!

Let me know!

One final thought too!!! If you want to bid on doing VB work or other programming languages go take a look at www.eLance.com At this site people/businesses post what they want developed or done and others actually bid on doing the work for them! It's a great way to build a resume if you are chosen for the work. Many people bidding the jobs are stating in their posts they are doing it under cost in order to build up their work portfolo for other better jobs.

Anyhow... Come up with an idea and I'd be glad to show you some of the ropes to marketing online.

[Sashko]

vbMarketer,

Your idea of making some profit on eBay is definitely a plausible idea. I haven't considered that as an option before. And it doesn't seem that hard to implement, too.

But the thing is, why would people buy something for $20 or $30 if instead they could download a similar app that could be even better for free? Yes, I understand that if you have a professional website with a truly innovative product(s), you could use eBay as a marketing option. Even if your product is a better remake of someone else's app, it seems like there's so many other free alternatives on the web that people just wouldn't care to spend money on it.

Another realistic alternative for marketing an app online would be to use http://www.download.com or http://www.tucows.com (or others). You could make a shareware or a time-limited demo of your app and have a link to your website. But then, you would have to find a way of selling it on your own.

The other problem is coming up with ideas. Yeah, you could make a specialized program for a specific small business or store, but it's kind of hard to find a client like that. But, on the other hand, it's worth the effort looking. (I have to stop contradicting myself... lol)

Having a $30 app on eBay with even minor success is still worth it. Even 10 customers would bring you a whopping $300 for relatively little effort! Sounds good, doesn't it?

I have very little experience with marketing or selling/buying online, but it's not a bad time to start learning either. vbMarketer, if you have any other ideas or suggestions, I'd love to get in touch with ya.

Well, good luck everybody,
See ya all l8r,

([email protected])