Software Engineer vs Computer Programmer

[TBeck]

I know the two are similar but what are the major differences/ similarities between the two?

[dee-u]

The software engineer may never really be involved in the actual programming?

[szlamany]

The computer programmer might not actually know the full-scope of the architecture/design of the application that is being worked on. Given instructions by the software engineer or analyst the computer programmer can produce the code requested.

[RhinoBull]

...Given instructions by the software engineer or analyst the computer programmer can produce the code requested.

Without knowing the entire picture it's difficult to "produce" anything decent. It is best when programmers are involved in the design.

[szlamany]

Without knowing the entire picture it's difficult to "produce" anything decent. It is best when programmers are involved in the design.

We run our shop as you suggest - the programmers are involved and fully understand the scope.

But I've also done contract programming at sites that had me work as a coder - with no understanding of the full-system. This technique is used in many large shops.

I wonder what experiences other veteran forum members have had...

[Hack]

Without knowing the entire picture it's difficult to "produce" anything decent. It is best when programmers are involved in the design.

I would agree, but seldom does that happen in my world.

I have an inbox and an outbox. Specs get put in the Inbox, I code what is on the sheet, put the spec sheet in my outbox, and ship the code to QA for testing. Half the time I have no clue how what I'm doing fits into the application as a whole.

[RhinoBull]

We run our shop as you suggest - the programmers are involved and fully understand the scope...

Glad to hear that - let me know if you need any help - it sounds like fun place.

...But I've also done contract programming at sites that had me work as a coder - with no understanding of the full-system. This technique is used in many large shops...

I've been once in the situation like that - do this, do that in the presize way you're told... After few weeks I asked if I can see the entire picture or at least the scope of the part I was working on and you know I ended up in VP's office... We had a very long and not very pleasant conversation but to my big surprize he decided to "experiment" and follow (partially) my recomendations. Programmers and analysts loved that, all team leads hated it as they couldn't command any more in the way they did. Development cycle became much more productive so everybody benefits. But those team leads (mostly old timers) liked to have the "dummys"...
It was alot fun...

[techgnome]

Actualy, to be called a Software Engineer, one need an engineering degree and a certification letter from the local Engineering certification group. Typically, they are on the design end of the process and may or may not be involved in the actual coding.

Programmers are just that... but even within that realm, there are different levels. Here in our shop, we basically have three levels: Jr. Developers, Sr. Developers, and Systems Analyst/Developers. We are heaviest in the Sr Dev and Analyst end of things, and in a year the Jr Developers will be Sr-level. 9 times out of 10, the only process that the code monkeys (self-labeled) are NOT involved in is the actual requirements gathering. After that, from doing estimates, to design, to development, to testing, all departments are involved in one form or another. We used to allow developers to gather requirements.... but we quickly (Although too late) discovered that it's a bad idea to have developers talking directly to the clients. So now we have account managers to that for us.

-tg

[szlamany]

Glad to hear that - let me know if you need any help - it sounds like fun place.

We just started marketing one of our product lines - if sales go the way we all hope I'll take you up on that

[vivek_master146]

Computer programmer can itself be a sofware engineer. They are almost the same.