For you anti-Conspiracy nuts

[mendhak]

"Is the Pentagon spying on Americans?"

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10454316/

[Something Else]

A secret 400-page Defense Department document obtained by NBC News lists

I find it offensive that they report things using sources that they don't make publicly available. The other day I heard about a poll the BBC and oxford administered to 1700 Iraqi's, {Here's an item reporting about this: http://mathaba.net/0_index.shtml?x=494810 } and the news item reporting this poll said something like 53% of the iraqis felt the situation was bad {In another report, it said "Very Bad"}, but did not provide a link to the original source.

The original BBC report: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4514414.stm
Said nothing about this 53%, and the actual survey, in PDF format: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/h..._iraq_data.pdf
doesn't seem to have this 53% "situation {very} bad" entry anywhere. This "53%" seems more likely to be a spin, an interpretation of the facts, but not directly reported by the fact itself.

So I would like to read this "secret 400-page Defense Department document" to first find out:

was it really secret? If so, then NBC should be charged with espionage.
Did the document say that the parties investigated were "threats", or perhaps just "potential threats".

Just how much investigating, or "spying" actually occured? Was the gathered information just that which was generally publicly available, or did they have to resort to bugs, deception, searches and seizures?


Is there a link to this "Secret" Document/Database anywhere?

[space_monkey]

I agree statistics are so often used to prove a point or used to represent what the general population's opinion is, but very rarely do they post the documentation to back up their claims. News reporting today is no longer about the truth or facts, but rather about sensationalism, ratings, and making money. I can no longer choose a news outlet based on credibility but rather which news outlet tends to mesh with my beliefs, political views, or ideology. While some news organizations seem to be better than others, i don't think any of them are without this kind of reporting. You would think that the internet would reduce this since it makes the truth harder to hide, but the amount of garbage you have to dig through in order to find it; makes it almost impossible.

[Cander]

Polls are retarded.

[grilkip]

This might be something that has been going on in the US for longer, but overhere (Holland) I find myself confronted with a number of polls each day, "58% of all Dutch think....". It is becoming a major part of the news, as if I need to be told what I already know.

[capsulecorpjx]

"Is the Pentagon spying on Americans?"

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10454316/

I heard on NPR that the government is buying a "Big Brother" style database called ... get this ... Matrix.

This enormous database basically buys up and consolidates all the information collected by various private and public organizations. So if you enter a person's name or description in, it can spit out everything about him/her that can be tracked on the "grid."

Its pretty screwed up:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=1608129

[crptcblade]

Polls are retarded.

31% of all people know that.

[si_the_geek]

When it comes to statistics, I think this is one of the best:

88.2% of statistics are made up on the spot

(as seen in a great Guinness TV commercial)


I wouldn't be surprised if they are spying on their own citizens, but on the sly so that any politicians can deny it without (knowingly) lying.

[yrwyddfa]

but on the sly so that any politicians can deny it without (knowingly) lying.

"plausible deniability"

[moeur]

Well, here is more breaking news from the N.Y. Times Bush Lets U.S. Spy on Callers Without Courts

They sat on this story for a while and the government asked them not to release it at all saying it would harm investigations currently underway.
The conspiracy geek in me finds the timing of the release a little more than coincidental.

1. Extension of the patriot act is being debated today

2. The Dems, backed by the press, don’t want the people to focus on the good news coming out of Iraq (i.e. the recent elections).

[Shaggy Hiker]

Does seem a bit coincidental. The problem with coincidences is that they have to happen. It would be statistically impossible for them never to occur. That leaves just enough plausible doubt that nobody can ever be sure.

I don't think much of great plans of the government. The government isn't a thing, it is more like an anthill. All the individual ants are driven by their own impulses in ways that might achieve the overall end...but then again, it might not. The result is what we see. The ants may not even know the result.

As far as this massive database goes, you can be fairly certain it will have MANY flaws. Is the failure to delete information some sinister plot, or merely an example of a bunch of clerks who would rather surf the net for lewd pictures rather than clean up something that nobody cares about? People get up in arms about it, but I have terrific faith in the general laziness and underachievment of the human race.

[yrwyddfa]

I don't think much of great plans of the government. The government isn't a thing, it is more like an anthill. All the individual ants are driven by their own impulses in ways that might achieve the overall end...but then again, it might not. The result is what we see. The ants may not even know the result.

I agree with this. And just like the ants, us humans are driven by fairly simple rules an when you get lots of simple rules all acting together complex behaviour emerges.

Anthropologically this has always been the case that the whole is greater than the parts - this, of course, leads to reasoning - which cannot be verified or otherwise - that encourages such 'conspiracies' and 'coincidences'

But really all it is is poorly understood emergent behaviour.

Just like the ants.