What does MS think there up to!

[Electroman]

I recently found out about this project MS is looking into, more info here http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/25940.html, called Palladium. If you don't know that much about it in basic its MS and intel (maybe AMD if they decide to join) designing some sort of chip that will detect whether the software your running is legal. There is already working versions that work on the motherboard called fritz chips but they are planning on making a chip thats imbeded in the processor so it cant be deactivated.
The way it decides if the software is legal it does this by something like the MS certificates and a comitee will be set up to decide what software should be allowed to run on computers with these chips (ie new ones).
I don't think I need to tell you that this spells quite a bit of disaster for programmers who just want to make small programs to share with there friend and so on.
Does anyone else know any thing else about this or have any opinions?

[SteveCRM]

palladium has been around for quite a while...


personally I see nothing wrong with it

and about the certificates, Im sure there will be a way to program it so that it will be free.

[GingerNut]

I heard about it, and it sucks, but what can ya do? We're just the little people who don't have a say in anything.

[mepaco]

Yes, it is bad. This new initiative is also being supported by AMD and Microsoft. I found this from a /. link:

Bit by bit, digital freedom disappears
By Nathan Cochrane
September 17 2002

Another stage in Microsoft's five-year plan to control our PCs and the Internet will kick off early next year with the launch of Advanced Micro Devices' latest chip, Opteron, aimed at business uses.
The new microprocessor, which will run both existing 32-bit applications and specially recompiled 64-bit programs, will support "Palladium", a set of security and privacy features Microsoft is building into its products. Both AMD and Microsoft are members of the Trusted Computing Platform Alliance (TCPA), a cabal of 170 product makers developing a uniform approach to security and copyright protection. AMD has been working on the "trusted client" approach with Wave Systems Corp for two years.
AMD's chips will increase the security of those accessing programs and the Internet, says company marketer Patrick Moorhead. But it will also refuse to play certain content if it is not digitally signed by Microsoft or an authorised party.
For the end-to-end security features to work as envisioned by the TCPA, all parties along the network chain must build in complementary security features. Chips from the likes of AMD and Intel will only decode information, such as audio and video, if it comes with an unlocking key. Hard-drive makers will make drives that won't record certain types of information, and so on.
It is envisaged that once the TCPA system is fully functioning, our PCs would quietly report to authorities any unauthorised content on our machines. PCs and other devices would also refuse to play content, such as a music CD, tied to another device, and may be instructed by a remote server to delete information from the owner's hard drive.

Moorhead, AMD's vice-president of consumer advocacy, dismisses consumer complaints that the ever-tightening noose designed to stop online piracy, known as Digital Rights Management (DRM), will erode existing rights.
But he says AMD believes that these technologies should be "opt-in" - that the user should control it - not government mandates.
Hollywood and the music industry are lobbying hard to make DRM mandatory in all new devices, and existing laws here and in the US make it a crime to switch it off.
Moorhead says the end user has been "unfairly branded" as a thief, and he believes most people would buy content online if it was available but it is being held back by a skittish film and recording industry.
But Dan Bricklin, computing pioneer and co-developer of the world's first popular spreadsheet, VisiCalc, says attempts to copy-protect works are a "simple fix" to preserve out-dated business models.
Further, he wrote, using legislation to bolster technological methods would be "bad for society", hobbling technology.
"Copy protection, like poor environment and chemical instability before it for books and works of art, looks to be a major impediment to preserving our cultural heritage."

[Zaei]

Whatever. Soon you will start seeing more and more PCs being manufactured with a Linux Install as an option. MS can go and commit suicide...

And to all you AMD fans out there ::laugh:: =).

Z.

[mepaco]

Originally posted by Zaei
Whatever. Soon you will start seeing more and more PCs being manufactured with a Linux Install as an option. MS can go and commit suicide...

And to all you AMD fans out there ::laugh:: =).

Z.

I don't understand why you laugh. What processor do you use? Intel? They were the first ones to jump on board. Also, if I understand this correctly, since it is built into the hardware it doesn't matter what OS you are using.

EDIT: The only group not jumping on board is Apple. They are not planning on supporting Palladium.

[The Hobo]

Now that's retarded.

I don't remember the name of the movie with Stalone in it...but he was frozen and woken back up to fight a villian that was woken back up as well...something along the lines of that.

They had machines that listened for swearing and printed you a ticket when you swore. I thought it was pretty funny at the time, but I bet that's Microsoft's next "big idea."

[JungleMan]

Originally posted by Zaei
Whatever. Soon you will start seeing more and more PCs being manufactured with a Linux Install as an option. MS can go and commit suicide...

And to all you AMD fans out there ::laugh:: =).

Z.

You don't think Intel's going to follow suit? Of course they will...real world here bro

[msimmons]

Big Brother is Watching You!

[mepaco]

Here is another article so Intel fans won't feel left out:

Intel chip to include antipiracy features
By Chris Gaither, Globe Staff, 9/10/2002


AN JOSE, Calif. - Bracing itself for another potential fight with computer privacy advocates, Intel Corp. said yesterday that its next generation of microchips, due next year, would include anti-piracy features that will protect computers against hackers and viruses while giving digital publishers powerful new tools to control the use of their products.

The technology, code-named LaGrande, was designed to protect computers from viruses and bad-natured hackers. But the feature will also give Hollywood, the recording industry, and software makers much stronger controls over the way consumers use their digital music, films, and computer programs.
Publishers, for example, may prevent PCs that run LaGrande and Microsoft Corp.'s software-based Palladium security technology from copying CDs, forwarding certain documents, or running unlicensed software.
Paul Otellini, Intel's president, said the chip maker would include no copyright protections in LaGrande, but he acknowledged that digital publishers could use the technology with software programs such as Palladium to create their own.
Intel intends to include the technology in the Prescott chip design, which will succeed the Pentium 4 as the Santa Clara, Calif., company's flagship PC chip in the second half of 2003.
Until then, consumer advocacy groups say they will lobby to ensure that publishers don't use these so-called secure computing initiatives to spy on PC users.
''These systems are likely to police copyright by watching who consumes what,'' said Chris Hoofnagle, legislative counsel with the Washington-based Electronic Privacy Information Center. ''There are grave consequences for privacy with these systems,'' he added.
Intel's LaGrande effort is part of the Trusted Computing Platform Alliance, a coalition of high-tech giants including Intel, IBM Corp., Microsoft, and Hewlett-Packard Co.
While Intel is approaching secure computing at the level of the silicon chips and their accompanying components, Microsoft's Palladium initiative is software-based. Microsoft plans to include Palladium in future versions of the Windows operating system.
Privacy groups locked horns with Intel in 1999 over another attempt to solve the same security problems that LaGrande is tackling. Intel assigned a digital identifier, known as a processor serial number, to every new Pentium III chip, but disabled the feature a year later, after privacy groups said the serial number threatened to make anonymous Web surfing and Internet transactions impossible.
Ari Schwartz, associate director of the Washington-based Center for Democracy and Technology, said LaGrande appeared to give users more control over the information revealed about themselves than the processor serial numbers. His group is meeting regularly with Microsoft and others to monitor their intentions.
''A lot of what's decided is going to be on the policy side, not the technical side,'' he said.
Seth Schoen, staff technologist for the San Francisco-based Electronic Frontier Foundation, said Palladium and LaGrande could create a computing environment that is safer for publishers and their content, but less safe for computer users looking to maintain their privacy.
By protecting vaults of data and the pathways that transfer them within the PC, LaGrande will prevent viruses from infecting central parts of the computer, make it harder for hackers to take over computers remotely, and allow for more secure e-commerce transactions, Otellini said in a speech at Intel's twice-yearly developer forum yesterday.
But, he added, the chip maker learned from the processor serial number debacle. In ''creating a safer computing environment,'' he said, Intel is working with privacy groups ''to ensure that we do it in ways that are acceptable to the norms of privacy today.''
Intel used its developer forum to announce other new technologies and show off designs of the future. Demonstrations included an experimental Pentium 4 chip that designers ratcheted up to 4.7 gigahertz, nearly twice as speedy as the fastest chip on the market, a 2.8 gigahertz chip. They also showed a sneak preview of a chip code-named Madison, which is the next iteration of Intel's Itanium line of server chips.
Finally, Intel said it would move a new technology, currently being used in server chips, into top-of-the-line desktop computers this year. The 3.0 gigahertz Pentium 4, due this quarter, will include a feature known as hyper-threading, which improves performance as much as 30 percent with some software applications by making one processor act like two.

[Zaei]

I didnt say anything about Intel =P. Just laughing at you AMD people. No, I agree that Intel will jump on board as well =).

Though honestly, I have to wonder how this is all going to work... Filesystems, Networking, etc all have VERY little to do with the processor itself, its all OS specific stuff, and once the data gets down to the processor level, all you know is that it is a 32 or 64 bit number, and what you are supposed to be doing with it. Thus my OS related comment.

Z.

[msimmons]

http://www.holt.org/bigbrother/

[The Hobo]

Originally posted by msimmons
Big Brother is Watching You!

Hopefully I'll be long dead before we get that society.

[msimmons]

We are there more than you think... we (im speaking of americans I don't know about the rest of the world) don;t realize it cos it has happened so slowly and we are pacified with our televesion/fast food/alcohol and drugs that we just sit back and watch it happen w/o seeing it.

[msimmons]

for perfect example this thread... how many people realize that this is happening?

[maxl]

Don't know if you guys saw it : there are two petitions against it there : http://www.petitiononline.com/cgi-ht...ords=palladium . Don't think that will do anything but it's worth a shot.

[Zaei]

Originally posted by maxl
Don't know if you guys saw it : there are two petitions against it there : http://www.petitiononline.com/cgi-ht...ords=palladium . Don't think that will do anything but it's worth a shot.

Nope, wont be worth a sick dingo =).

There is nothing that can really be done about this corperation central trend that we have. As long as they dont break any laws, the government cant touch them, and the Bill or Rights which allows us to petition the government for a redrss of grievences.. well, doesnt apply to corperations. What are you gonna do?

Z.

[The Hobo]

I hate this crap.

[The Hobo]

If companies like Microsoft and Macromedia didn't outragously price their products, they wouldn't have the problem to the extent that they're having it now. And I'm pretty sure it's not that much of a problem $$ wise to them, anyways. But, you know, get as much $ as we can, that's the human way.

[siyan]

I don't exactly see Intel, AMD, and Microsoft going out of business for quite some time.... in fact they're making ****LOADS of money even with software piracy going.

But whatever...have faith that everything will be hacked and given to us for free. Windows XP Auth protection was supposed to be this big unstoppable force but that was toppled within hours of the final RTM...

-C

[maxl]

Originally posted by siyan
I don't exactly see Intel, AMD, and Microsoft going out of business for quite some time.... in fact they're making ****LOADS of money even with software piracy going.

But whatever...have faith that everything will be hacked and given to us for free. Windows XP Auth protection was supposed to be this big unstoppable force but that was toppled within hours of the final RTM...

-C

Yeah, but the scary thing is that this time it's hardware and inseide your CPU. Are you gonna crack that open

[siyan]

Originally posted by maxl
Yeah, but the scary thing is that this time it's hardware and inseide your CPU. Are you gonna crack that open

hardware is still in many ways a slave to software.

-C

[Nightwalker83]

It's all one big conspiracy

[Vanguard-MnC]

im not gonna buy it even if it has pretty graphics and pretty trojan horses that take over your computer.

[Pc_Madness]

Hmm.. well what Processor Manufactors aren't involved in this??

[Pc_Madness]

Originally posted by siyan
I don't exactly see Intel, AMD, and Microsoft going out of business for quite some time.... in fact they're making ****LOADS of money even with software piracy going.

But whatever...have faith that everything will be hacked and given to us for free. Windows XP Auth protection was supposed to be this big unstoppable force but that was toppled within hours of the final RTM...

-C

Microsoft asked for it by bragging about how great and unbreakable it was...

[Nightwalker83]

Originally posted by Pc_Madness
Microsoft asked for it by bragging about how great and unbreakable it was...

Yeah but it still would of happened

[Pc_Madness]

Yeah... but it was cracked in like 5 hours, instead it could have been a couple of weeks...

[Nightwalker83]

Originally posted by Pc_Madness
Yeah... but it was cracked in like 5 hours, instead it could have been a couple of weeks...

How long was it before people started hacking Linux successfully?