MFC or Win32?

**CornedBee** · Jan 28th, 2003, 08:19 PM

If i make a program thats 3MB i will be proud because i know i did alot of work

That's no way to measure. I could easily find a way to make a 5MB exe with only a few lines of code. Did I work hard for that?

Or rephrased: if you can write two programs with the same amount of work that do the same thing and one is smaller, would you like the bigger more because you feel like you've done more? You have not, so the smaller program is better.

And as already said, as a programmer you serve the public, not the other way round. You must meet the requirements of the users if you want them to use your app. Only M$ can get away with not doing that.

**CornedBee** · Jan 28th, 2003, 08:19 PM

If i make a program thats 3MB i will be proud because i know i did alot of work

That's no way to measure. I could easily find a way to make a 5MB exe with only a few lines of code. Did I work hard for that?

Or rephrased: if you can write two programs with the same amount of work that do the same thing and one is smaller, would you like the bigger more because you feel like you've done more? You have not, so the smaller program is better.

And as already said, as a programmer you serve the public, not the other way round. You must meet the requirements of the users if you want them to use your app. Only M$ can get away with not doing that.

**JasonLpz** · Jan 28th, 2003, 08:28 PM

ok ok but like MS if i make a big program like MS OFFICE you wont expect it to be 5MB because its small and it would be crapy. Im just saying if i make a program for the first time i would be happy its big cuz i would think i did alot and then i would try to make it smaller. I agree the user would love a huge program in a asmall size. I admit i would love it if office xp was 20 MB

i understand the smaller the code maybe the faster the flow and more easy to update and redistribute.

I was just stating my opinion and i know the facts and i will comply with them.

What i really meant was that 2-15MB isnt really that big to complain about.

**CornedBee** · Jan 28th, 2003, 08:31 PM

That depends. What's interesting is the code-to-functionality ratio. If a small test app is 1 MB large I'd be pissed off. Office XP on the other hand has an awful lot of functionality so it's quite justified it's so large (except that I think you don't need two thirds of that functionality...).

**made_of_asp** · Jan 28th, 2003, 10:38 PM

My "Avenger FTP" app is 700kb, lots of people dl'ed it. I bet if it was 10 megs, nobody would even bother.

**davidrobin** · Jan 29th, 2003, 04:09 AM

It comes down to using the right tools for the job. Using an programming language just because you know it is will not win points with customers if they have specific requirements.

Also you will then be losing out on opportunities for work.

Another thing is I could write an app that is 10 meg but it could be a load of pants. A good app is in how useful, easy to understand, etc it is.

**RabidChimp** · Feb 1st, 2003, 11:17 PM

What does MFC mean??

**john tindell** · Feb 2nd, 2003, 09:12 AM

Originally posted by RabidChimp
What does MFC mean??

Microsoft Foundation Classes

**JasonLpz** · Feb 2nd, 2003, 04:07 PM

so MFC is basically a tool that you use when you already know alot of c++ / win32 / api? and when you get tired of coding windows and stuff? I heard its usefull when you dont qant to code alot because it generates some code automatically

**Darkwraith** · Feb 2nd, 2003, 07:52 PM

Its good as a shortcut. It contains a lot of different classes that can do almost anything. The reason why some people do not use it is that it bloats code and can cause anaomalities that you cannot control (like memory leaks.)

However, you can argue that people use it because they cannot code, and they need Microsoft to do it for them.

**CornedBee** · Feb 8th, 2003, 05:37 PM

You can, but if you generalize that I'll have to beat you.

**Darkwraith** · Feb 8th, 2003, 11:08 PM

I was kidding.

My thought is that MFC is not good for games, but it is good for applications that are not processor intensive.

The few areas that I could of used MFC, I instead of used either ANSI or my own versions of the objects. My feeling is that if you have the time, you might as well use the knowledge you have and craft something yourself instead of having MS do it for you.

**JasonLpz** · Feb 9th, 2003, 08:15 AM

ive made 2 similar programs in c++. 1 in MFC and the other in Win32. Now it seems to me win32 isd larger in size than MFC. I thoughMFC bloats the code.

**parksie** · Feb 9th, 2003, 08:29 AM

You need the MFC DLLs though

Link it statically and see the difference.

**JasonLpz** · Feb 9th, 2003, 04:09 PM

what? didnt quite understand. Also i test this program on other computers, win98 and winXP Pro. And i just use exe. I never moved a dll to another computer; so what dll's are you talking about. If i never use them with one.

**parksie** · Feb 9th, 2003, 05:41 PM

Use Dependency Walker to check. You need the MFC DLLs which you cannot always guarantee. Sure, they might be included in XP, but when the system is already over a gig who cares, huh

Try it on Windows 95/95, people still use that, therefore you must be portable.

**JasonLpz** · Feb 9th, 2003, 06:12 PM

at this moment i only make programs for xp and 98. Do you think i might need these dll's on ME? and how would i include them for redistribution?
I found my program(s) use :

Code:

ADVAPI32.DLL
GDI32.DLL
IMESH BANNERKILLER.EXE
KERNEL32.DLL
MFC42D.DLL
MFCO42D.DLL
MSVCRTD.DLL
USER32.DLL

**Darkwraith** · Feb 9th, 2003, 10:04 PM

What is Dependency Walker and where can I get it?

**crptcblade** · Feb 9th, 2003, 10:11 PM

It comes with VS, look in : <VS Directory>\Common\Tools\depends.exe

**transcendental** · Feb 10th, 2003, 01:54 AM

Originally posted by JasonLpz
at this moment i only make programs for xp and 98. Do you think i might need these dll's on ME? and how would i include them for redistribution?
I found my program(s) use :

Code:

ADVAPI32.DLL GDI32.DLL IMESH BANNERKILLER.EXE KERNEL32.DLL MFC42D.DLL MFCO42D.DLL MSVCRTD.DLL USER32.DLL

You are not supposed to distribute the debug version of the dlls(note the D in MFC42D.DLL), as stated in the MS license agreement. By the way, does the WinME PC which you ran this program on, have VS/VC installed?

By right, the program is not supposed to run as WinME OS and onwards, only have MFC42.DLL and MFCO42.DLL (release versions, note no D postfix)

**transcendental** · Feb 10th, 2003, 02:00 AM

Originally posted by Darkwraith
What is Dependency Walker and where can I get it?

--> [start]-->[Programs]-->[Visual C++ 6.0]-->[Visual C++ 6.0 Tools]-->[Depends]

**CornedBee** · Feb 10th, 2003, 05:46 AM

To see the real dependencies you should use the walker on a release build.

Win98+ and Win2k+ should (!) have the MFC4.2 (VC++6) dlls distributed with them. In reality not all of them really do, parksie's PC for example didn't have them.

If you compile with VC++7 then you need MFC7 which is not even distributed with WinXP.

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