Post election prediction

[Shaggy Hiker]

I disagree with this. Clone Wars the animated series, the 2012 one not the 2008 one, was peak Star Wars in my opinion. It was Star Wars at its best. Clone Wars was among the last productions in the pre-Disney era. Nearly everything Disney made since they got their hands on it was absolute garbage. The Mandalorian and Andor are the only exceptions.

Ah, I never saw the animated series, so I have no opinion on that. I was only talking about the movies, which is all I've seen. The three trilogies and Rogue One....and perhaps that one about Han Solo, I think I saw that one, too.

If you're talking about The Force Awakens, I strongly disagree with this. That movie was one of the most trash movies ever made. It was just awful. Given how much of a Star Wars fan I was, I still gave the second one a chance and that one was even worse. I didn't bother to see the last one and never will. Disney turned me off Star Wars completely. Disney has no idea whatsoever why old school fans like me liked Star Wars in the first place. Until Disney sells the franchise I will never watch another one of their Star Wars productions ever again.

No, I was not talking about The Force Awakens. I was talking about the first Star Wars movie made, which I suppose was episode IV.

[wes4dbt]

No, I was not talking about The Force Awakens. I was talking about the first Star Wars movie made, which I suppose was episode IV.

Yeah, it's pretty confusing when talking about the episodes. Now they are calling the first one in 1977 Star Wars A New Hope.

[FunkyDexter]

which I suppose was episode IV.

Not when it was made it wasn't. It wasn't a New Hope either. It originally rolled out as just Star Wars. Lucas retconned the extra bits in later when he realised what a cash cow he'd created.

[Niya]

Ah, I never saw the animated series, so I have no opinion on that.

I highly recommend it if you're fan of Star Wars. In my opinion, it perfectly captures the essence of what Star Wars was meant to be. I'd even go so far as to say it captures it better than any of the films. It's a perfect blend of comedy, drama and world building. Really top notch work by the Lucasfilm team.

No, I was not talking about The Force Awakens. I was talking about the first Star Wars movie made, which I suppose was episode IV.

Ah ok.

The narrative structure you're talking about is called the Hero's Journey and it's a time tested framework used to ground a story in such a way that it has to potential to captivate people because it makes the story relatable. Every single person alive goes through the "Hero's Journey" in one way or another. Too bad no one told Katheleen Kennedy. Perhaps the Disney films wouldn't have been such utter garbage if she knew the basics of storytelling.

[sapator]

Come on Star Wars I was the worst of the bunch, it's the only episode that I don't ever watch. II was bad III was better , VII was relatively OK as the next ones . Also they butchered a little the originals by adding CGI characters but you can't view the originals in decent quality (meaning without tolerance of the CGI copies).

[Shaggy Hiker]

The narrative structure you're talking about is called the Hero's Journey and it's a time tested framework used to ground a story in such a way that it has to potential to captivate people because it makes the story relatable. Every single person alive goes through the "Hero's Journey" in one way or another. Too bad no one told Katheleen Kennedy. Perhaps the Disney films wouldn't have been such utter garbage if she knew the basics of storytelling.

I'd look at the animated series based on your recommendation, except that I'd have to admit that I haven't watched anything like that in...longer than I'd care to admit. Too much to do, too little time.

My understanding for the final trilogy was that there WAS a good story arc that had been developed. You can see that with the story lines being set up in VII. Then they switched directors, or writers, or some such, and the new team decided to go in a totally different direction with VIII. That made such a mess that trying to tie things up in IX was essentially hopeless...though they didn't give it a good try, anyways.

[Niya]

I'd look at the animated series based on your recommendation, except that I'd have to admit that I haven't watched anything like that in...longer than I'd care to admit. Too much to do, too little time.

It's a really damn good series but I think only Star Wars fans can truly appreciate it. It focuses very heavily on building on the Star Wars lore and it did it quite well.

My understanding for the final trilogy was that there WAS a good story arc that had been developed.

George Lucas's original plans certainly would have been good but as soon as Kathleen Kennedy got control, Star Wars was finished. She completely abandoned Lucas's ideas in order to use Star Wars as a platform to pitch her brand of feminism. Kathleen Kennedy and her cronies were more activists than showrunners and it shows. I really really liked the Star Wars brand and I gave her movies a genuine try. I have been looking forward to seeing them since they first announced it. We didn't have a Star Wars movie in so long. When it finally came, I was extremely disappointed. It was one of the most awful pieces of entertainment I had ever seen in my life. I still went ahead and gave the second movie a shot, hoping they fixed the problems with the first one but it turned out to be even worse. I just gave up after that. I didn't bother to watch the 3rd one or the Solo movie. These people have no idea how to write a compelling and entertaining story.

The only Star Wars movie under the Disney brand that wasn't complete trash was Rogue One. I don't really like it that much but it was certainly not a bad film. I just found it a bit boring and derivative. I felt that Rogue One underutilized the rich lore of Star Wars. It could have been so much better.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I had no positive expectations after episodes I through III. The first one couldn't decide on which audience they were going for, kids or adults. The second two were certainly better than that one, but they were certainly lightweight when it came to the plot. Perhaps miscast, too. I watched the final three because I'd seen the others, but I never expected much from them.

[sapator]

I mean you can't expect a perfect trilogy to be better but after those 3 to get Jar Jar, me so stupid... I'm usually harsh when it comes to movies, mostly watch pre 2010 films but it did not really bother me with the new star wars, also the latest Indy was not bad, of course the previous was a nightmare so anything else would be better. If you want an example that stick to the plan, Star Trek. I'm not a Trekkie in the sense that I never watched the movie series and only a few of the old movie episodes (been sitting quietly in my PC for 3 years not, maybe I should start) but except from number 1 and the the one that they follow the , don't recall their names, the people with machine parts in the past to start a warp speed , the are pretty decent. I hear there will be a new one with the latest cast so that is good news.
But on the bright side, Disney allowed Deadpool3 so maybe, they will push some limits...

[Shaggy Hiker]

Money talks...long and loud.

[Niya]

I had no positive expectations after episodes I through III. The first one couldn't decide on which audience they were going for, kids or adults. The second two were certainly better than that one, but they were certainly lightweight when it came to the plot. Perhaps miscast, too. I watched the final three because I'd seen the others, but I never expected much from them.

I assume you're talking about Phantom Menace, The Clone Wars and Revenge of the Sith? It is true that Phantom Menace for a long time was widely regarded as the most terrible entry in the series of Star Wars films and for good reason. There were a number of problems including their indecisiveness on whether to target adults or children. However, I believe it's widely accepted that these were problems of execution only. Fans still love the story that was told. The characters were still interesting and captivating(eg. Darth Maul turned out to be a hugely popular character that has appeared numerous times in other productions), I mean aside from Jar Jar Binks who was extremely annoying and Lucas actually fixed that in later movies by limiting his presence, thank God.

The Kennedy Disney films on the other hand had nothing going for it. The characters were trash, the story was trash, the execution was trash. This difference in quality comes from the difference between George Lucas and Kathleen Kennendy. Lucas listened to the fans and took feedback, Jar Jar Binks is proof of this. The fandom hated this character so he responded by limiting his presence and the few times he did show up, his annoying features were toned down drastically. Kathleen Kennedy is a completely different beast. She believes it's her God given mandate to instruct the "ignorant masses" and lead us into enlightenment and no one is going to tell her otherwise. Unlike Lucas, she interprets criticism of her productions as personal attacks and she and her cronies respond by insulting the fans. Her approach is to try and shame the fanbase into accepting whatever drivel she puts out. She refuses to course correct the way Lucas would have done.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Lucas actually fixed that in later movies by limiting his presence

Yeah. That's a 'polite' way to put it.

[sapator]

I don't recall who of the Jedi did it but pulling his tongue so he should shut up and him going "Brabarbabrabbrbarbarbarbarrrrr"! was spot on. Shut up and God why did they ever created him?

[Niya]

I don't recall who of the Jedi did it but pulling his tongue so he should shut up and him going "Brabarbabrabbrbarbarbarbarrrrr"! was spot on. Shut up and God why did they ever created him?

It was Qui-Gon Jinn that held his tongue for being annoying in Anakin's home. This was in the episode I.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Looking at the floppy ears, exaggerated features, and so on, I'd guess that they thought he'd be seen as adorable and therefore could be sold as a toy.

[sapator]

Tomatoes have him as the worst and then II and then III and the IX.
Tomatobest is V and then IV and VI that I think everyone agrees.

[Peter Porter]

I liked the Mandalorian, even though It could've still been written well without baby Yoda. That alone kept me from watching the show for a few months, seeing that it was dreamt-up for the kiddies, like the Ewoks and Jar Jar Binks.

[Niya]

Yea, the inclusion of "baby Yoda" didn't make a lick of sense to me, otherwise, it was a really good show. However, in the eyes of many fans, it fell off in season 3 because the hand of Kathleen Kennedy was felt. It seemed that out of nowhere the male lead was sidelined to push her typical feminist drivel through the use of the character Bo Katan. It's almost like Kennedy saw what a massive hit the Mandalorian was with fans and couldn't stand the idea that it was such a hit with a male lead so she ordered the producers to sideline Din Djarin in favor of Bo Katan so she could sleep at night. In my opinion, it didn't ruin the series as Bo Katan was a pre-Kennedy character that was well liked but it did seem quite odd how the series suddenly shifted gears. Disney needs to reign that woman in. They have something with the Mandalorian and if they want to preserve it they need to limit Kennedy's interference.

[Shaggy Hiker]

It sounds like we all agree that Star Wars held a whole lot of promise that it has often failed to live up to because of a variety of different peculiar decisions.

[Niya]

Star Wars has always had problems, mainly the question of whether it's a kiddie show or something for adults. Crafting the perfect balance was always a problem but it was a solid property otherwise. However, right now, I'd say Kathleen Kennedy is by far the biggest problem the Star Wars brand has ever faced, perhaps even Disney itself is the real problem. George should have given it to his children or something. Disney has no respect for Lucas's legacy this is the problem facing the brand right now.

[wes4dbt]

Tomatoes have him as the worst and then II and then III and the IX.
Tomatobest is V and then IV and VI that I think everyone agrees.

Episode V would be Empire Strike Back???

My favorite was the original Star Wars. I guess that is episode IV. It was completely new and amazing to watch. I had never seen special effects like that before, the characters are all new. The whole thing was a new and unique experience. But I guess you got to be old to have that point of view. Anyone under 65 has seen special effects like that all their life.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Star Wars was a solid concept, but Star Trek has spawned more real world kinds of tech...or aspirations. It may have helped that it never had the question of who the audience really was. It also dealt with the size of space better...if only by largely ignoring it through the use of warp drives and the teleporter.

[wes4dbt]

Star Wars was a solid concept, but Star Trek has spawned more real world kinds of tech...or aspirations. It may have helped that it never had the question of who the audience really was. It also dealt with the size of space better...if only by largely ignoring it through the use of warp drives and the teleporter.

I was a fan of Star Trek when it came out but I was watching it on 21" black and white TV. Seeing Star Wars at the theater in '77 was an experience.

[Niya]

Star Wars was a solid concept, but Star Trek has spawned more real world kinds of tech...or aspirations. It may have helped that it never had the question of who the audience really was. It also dealt with the size of space better...if only by largely ignoring it through the use of warp drives and the teleporter.

Ooo ....careful with this one. You think Democrats vs conservatives is a culture war, wait till you see the Star Wars vs Star Trek crowd. Oh boy

And if you really want to see a true war of bloodthirsty berserkers take a side in the dubbed anime vs subbed anime debate. I found myself in one of these by accident in the YouTube comments once. Conservatives vs Democrats is nothing compared to that. People will literally wish you get gutted in the street for saying dubbed anime is better.

In any case, I loved both properties. Star Wars and Star Trek have enough differences to be considered unique and both can be appreciated at the same time. Interestingly enough though one of the things that they have in common is both have been ruined by modern writers who are more activists than writers, though Star Trek has suffered far less in that regard.

[Niya]

Oh God, it seems not only is the quality of the story is suffering under Disney but everything else in Star Wars has dropped in quality:-
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/4YRY3_53rSs

I didn't even know it was THIS bad. Holy hell! I'm not kidding when I say that there are random YouTubers who have produced far better choreography than this. Disney isn't even trying man.

[sapator]

You haven't seen the film. They where fighting for a couple of days,eerrr minutes so they got tired. Speed really does not do any justice else the first star wars would be lame.
I would much rather view the last ones than I,II they are boring IMO (OK 'I' , I don't think I'll watch it again intentionally anyhow) ... I guess we disagree on that.
Anyhow all these with the exception of the originals is more to pass your time rather that think so on serious movies note, I'm excited to see dog day afternoon at the weekend , seems like I have missed this one.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Ooo ....careful with this one. You think Democrats vs conservatives is a culture war, wait till you see the Star Wars vs Star Trek crowd. Oh boy

Yeah, I can only imagine. I was surprised at the heat around VB6 vs VB.NET, so Trek vs Wars ought to be something. Still, Trek seems to have people dreaming of real world tech, while Wars seems to have...a whole lot of action figures.

And when you talk about anime, I don't think you were around when somebody came on here talking about putting heads on a pike for liking .NET. There are people willing to talk actual bloodshed over pretty nearly any divide. I think it just comes down to people who have just one axis that they evaluate themselves on.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Y (OK 'I' , I don't think I'll watch it again intentionally anyhow) ... I guess we disagree on that.

I don't remember anybody disagreeing about that. At least not disagreeing that it was the worst of the lot. We DO have a whole lot of confusion caused by the first movie being IV, but not called IV until later.

[sapator]

I meant that I and II and give or take III are worst than the new ones. But when it comes to movies it's completely subjective. I mean I like splatter films, someone will find this atrocious and not proper films at all on the other side I also like movies like Serpico or Taxi driver that some will find masterpieces. I'll really struggling with dramas tho. Maybe one here one there but I don't really enjoy them.

[Niya]

Yeah, I can only imagine. I was surprised at the heat around VB6 vs VB.NET, so Trek vs Wars ought to be something.

These arguments are just as energetic as VB6/VB.Net arguments.

Still, Trek seems to have people dreaming of real world tech, while Wars seems to have...a whole lot of action figures.

Star Trek has always tried to stay as grounded in reality as possible. Star Wars doesn't do this because, unlike Star Trek, the point is NEVER about the science. This gives the writers a great deal of freedom when it comes to the worlds and technology they can imagine because they know the fans won't ever expect them to even attempt to explain how they work.

And when you talk about anime, I don't think you were around when somebody came on here talking about putting heads on a pike for liking .NET. There are people willing to talk actual bloodshed over pretty nearly any divide. I think it just comes down to people who have just one axis that they evaluate themselves on.

That must have been very interesting. I could understand taking a side but I could NEVER understand wanting to hurt, jail or silence people because they don't agree with you or think your ideas are stupid.

You haven't seen the film. They where fighting for a couple of days,eerrr minutes so they got tired. Speed really does not do any justice else the first star wars would be lame.

I dislike the choreography of the originals just as much for the same reason. However, the originals (Episodes 3,5 and 6) tell an amazing story with memorable characters and outstanding performances. Also, they have an excuse, they were made in the 80s. The Disney movies have no excuse for such unentertaining choreography and unlike the originals, they have no compensating qualities.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Star Trek has always tried to stay as grounded in reality as possible. Star Wars doesn't do this because, unlike Star Trek, the point is NEVER about the science. This gives the writers a great deal of freedom when it comes to the worlds and technology they can imagine because they know the fans won't ever expect them to even attempt to explain how they work.

That's a very good observation. I hadn't thought of it that way, but once you say it, I see your point.

That must have been very interesting. I could understand taking a side but I could NEVER understand wanting to hurt, jail or silence people because they don't agree with you or think your ideas are stupid.

It was somebody who didn't really know how to act in public, really, as it would have alienated pretty much everybody, no matter what side they were on. It was quite unhinged. Naturally, it was quickly removed. All caps (or at least mostly caps, since I think the forum might not allow all caps) and a string of profanity. I don't know who was a moderator back then, but if was Martin...he was very strict.

[wes4dbt]

“We do have the authority over the federal courts, as you know. We can eliminate an entire district court. We have power of funding over the courts and all these other things,” Johnson told reporters on Tuesday. “But desperate times call for desperate measures, and Congress is going to act.”

If this happens then I'll start to get very nervous. I don't think it will happen but I've been wrong before.

Add this to trying to control the press(so far unsuccessfully) but could be made easier if they control the courts.

If the government starts controlling the judicial system and the press That seems like a receipt for authoritarianism.

I normally think that we (society) are advancing to a better place. A more safe place, with equality but I can't see it currently. We seem to be digressing. But I do think we will start advancing again.