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Thread: UK Riots

  1. #41
    Fanatic Member Peter Porter's Avatar
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    Re: UK Riots

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Hmm. Like the people here calling for Trump to be murdered just before the 1st assassination attempt?

    I was shocked that we didn't at least see bans. Hopefully the FBI/SS/DHS have them on watch lists now.
    Dil's statement would make extremists believe that all VBForums' mods gave a pass to threatening comments which he provided no proof of.

  2. #42
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    Re: UK Riots

    Wes was commenting about Dil's accusations of VBForums' members, not celebrities and politicians.
    Yeah, I know people have made those types of comments. I just don't remember anyone on this forum calling for Trump to be murdered. I so far no has provide any information of it happening.

  3. #43
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    Re: UK Riots

    Not sure where this was, but if it was in response to the SCOTUS ruling that presidents have absolute immunity, then it was a pretty on-point hypothetical about the SCOTUS ruling. They essentially said that is not illegal for a president to murder their opponents. That is the logical conclusion of their ruling. It's not saying it is right, it's saying that the ruling itself was dangerously wrong.
    Is it murder if it's legal?

    I remember Ty saying something like, if it's legal then Biden should take out Trump. But even that is a long way from Dils claim,

    Hmm. Like the people here calling for Trump to be murdered just before the 1st assassination attempt?
    Then again at my age my memory could be wrong. lol

  4. #44
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    Re: UK Riots

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Please stop violating the AUP by misspelling words that would otherwise be censored. It's too hard to tell whether or not it was intentional or not (after all, you also managed to misspell 'same', but in a way that is pretty funny).



    Not sure where this was, but if it was in response to the SCOTUS ruling that presidents have absolute immunity, then it was a pretty on-point hypothetical about the SCOTUS ruling. They essentially said that is not illegal for a president to murder their opponents. That is the logical conclusion of their ruling. It's not saying it is right, it's saying that the ruling itself was dangerously wrong.
    I was referring to Funky shame he missed and added sht, the shame he missed, thread sht, that's what I meant. If it was such a harsh word I do apologize but clearly the "memory gap" on what he said troubles me, also I did search for a couple of minutes and could not locate the specific dialog so I hope it has not been "vanished" . Anyhow I was fine before and I'll be fine here as I will probably be going MITYOCS on these hate threads. What's the point anyhow you keep washing the dirty laundry so good for you (plural).
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  5. #45
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    Re: UK Riots

    It's there. It's the last clause, which is a pretty much, "for whatever reason" clause. Various moderators have followed various rules over the years. I got banned for posting a pun that was certainly a bit blue, but didn't use any bad language. The needle swings this way and that, but no matter where it sits, some would prefer it to be elsewhere.
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  6. #46
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    Re: UK Riots

    Anyhow I was fine before and I'll be fine here as I will probably be going MITYOCS on these hate threads
    Says the person with the most hate filled posts.

    What's the point anyhow you keep washing the dirty laundry so good for you (plural).
    Yeah, definitely a dirty laundry conspiracy going on here. lol

  7. #47
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: UK Riots

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    I was referring to Funky shame he missed and added sht, the shame he missed, thread sht, that's what I meant.
    Oh yeah, I remember that one. I was wondering if that was what Dil was referring to, as well. Of course, it wasn't Funky making that statement, but relating with some surprise, a statement from somebody else.

    I don't think that we should be throwing around words like "hate" quite so loosely. There is about the sharpest divide in the US that has been seen in nearly 200 years. That fracture is there, to be sure, but it also isn't there. If you don't talk about politics or religion, most of the US (though not all) population are not so far apart. There is little power or money to be gained by not dividing people, though. Make people fearful or outraged and you can sell them stuff or get voted into some office. Get them working together, and all you might get is a sense of accomplishment and possibly something named after you.
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  8. #48
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    Re: UK Riots

    I was wondering about the religion part. If I'm not mistaken with deviations (Methodism, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses etc) it's all Cristian so how would there be battles? I mean in Ireland that there was massacre it has been lowered a lot down, and I haven't seen any religion confrontation here whatsoever. Except some Atheist here and there mocking Christians.
    Politics is another monster tho, and currently it's split to Woke'ers and Patriots. It's different in Greece tho, here it's split to (party dogs and idiot voters + (Woke'ers at 3-5%)) vs Patriots . The balance going on party dogs and idiots that mostly do not vote because that will show the government.
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  9. #49
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: UK Riots

    It seems to me that some of the most savage fights were between different sects within the same religion. Protestants and Catholics across Europe, and Sunni vs Shia across Islam. Though, I suppose there were some pretty savage fights between religions, too, such as the first crusade. Some of those seemed more driven by money or stupidity rather than true religious fervor, though.

    The US is becoming steadily less religious in general, though we still claim more religion than the EU. It's also becoming steadily less Christian. It mostly comes down to which church people say they don't attend, though. Still, you didn't spell Christian right, but that's not as bad as you spelling "White Supremacist" as "Patriot". You only got a few letters right.
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  10. #50
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    Re: UK Riots

    My Patriot is probably in a different meaning that your patriot so I can accept that. What I was talking about was current state of religion, not 200 ago. So by what you write religion does not make that of a difference now. It's more politics. Yet Trump has religion as a forwardteer so if he wins he might as well taken a portion from believers that are disappointed by the Woke agenta.

    P.S. So how would a Democrat specify him/herself? Clearly not a patriot by your saying.
    Last edited by sapator; Sep 24th, 2024 at 09:01 AM.
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  11. #51
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    Re: UK Riots

    I did search for a couple of minutes and could not locate the specific dialog
    My guess is that you're referring to the 3 (I think) bans that I issued off the back of the Covid thread, in which case you're somewhat misremembering the course of events as people weren't banned for posting misinformation about Covid. The thread was closed by Steve because 1) it started to turn misogynistic and homophobic and 2) because folks were just spamming the hell out of it (a lot of which was misinformation but not exclusively). When closing it Steve explicitly said not to start new threads on the same topic. A few members started new threads (several of them in fact) and got themselves banned.

    The worst you could conclude is that a thread got closed for misinformation (though it was actually more that that) but nobody got banned for it. People got banned for ignoring a direct instruction from the site Admin. I don't think anyone should be surprised to learn that that's a bannable offence.
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  12. #52
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    Re: UK Riots

    What? No that is not what I was referring to, I was referring to a person who advised Biden to take out Trump and then got insulted that we called him off.
    Last edited by dday9; Sep 25th, 2024 at 08:02 AM.
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  13. #53
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    Re: UK Riots

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    My Patriot is probably in a different meaning that your patriot so I can accept that.
    Well, since I would say it was a member of a football (American) team, then yeah, we have different definitions.
    What I was talking about was current state of religion, not 200 ago. So by what you write religion does not make that of a difference now.
    I can't parse this in any meaningful way.

    P.S. So how would a Democrat specify him/herself? Clearly not a patriot by your saying.
    There are two definitions of patriotism in the US. Conservatives have always been, "my country right or wrong", while Liberals have always been, "my country can improve." It's the difference between the strong daddy who can do no wrong, versus the relationship that is always a work in progress. Different kinds of love.
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  14. #54
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    Re: UK Riots

    Why is it that you can explain things clearly at times, and confuse the holy heck out of me at other times?

    That's not a good name, but it's also not a bad one with that definition. If somebody would master the crap, that would be quite impressive. At best, we can just push back against the deluge of excrement. Dil is probably seething about the white supremacist comment. He's right that there are plenty of others that support Trump, but the ones that are most prone to wrapping themselves in the flag...well, their doing it to cover up the bedsheets, which is why "Patriot" is a bit of a fraught word. You won't find a white supremacist group that doesn't wave their "patriotism" as a flag. Their anti-woke, but the funny thing is that their also anti-Niya. Of course, they're anti-self, too. They're violent towards everybody around them, and they tend to be around other members of their group, so they assault and kill one another at a higher rate than attacks on others, from what I have heard.
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    Re: UK Riots

    @DDay, coincidentally I stumbled across this on YouTube. It's a pretty impartial comparison of how the EU and the US treat free speech vs issues like privacy, misinformation, libel etc. I think it's pretty good in that it doesn't take sides, it just lays out the differing policies.

    I clearly wrote that he can remove it
    I'll leave that up to the individual. If they want it removed, PM me and I'll happily remove it. If I'm honest, I've kinda lost track of large parts of the conversation so I've no idea what's appropriate and what's not.

    If somebody would master the crap, that would be quite impressive
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  16. #56
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    Re: UK Riots

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Why is it that you can explain things clearly at times, and confuse the holy heck out of me at other times?

    That's not a good name, but it's also not a bad one with that definition. If somebody would master the crap, that would be quite impressive. At best, we can just push back against the deluge of excrement. Dil is probably seething about the white supremacist comment. He's right that there are plenty of others that support Trump, but the ones that are most prone to wrapping themselves in the flag...well, their doing it to cover up the bedsheets, which is why "Patriot" is a bit of a fraught word. You won't find a white supremacist group that doesn't wave their "patriotism" as a flag. Their anti-woke, but the funny thing is that their also anti-Niya. Of course, they're anti-self, too. They're violent towards everybody around them, and they tend to be around other members of their group, so they assault and kill one another at a higher rate than attacks on others, from what I have heard.
    Clearly explained. Thanks. The definition in Greece is what the name says without asterisks so I guess you have a lot of deviations. So I'm considering myself a patriot but in US I would probably end up in a blue flower dress smoking crack and have a picture of Saint Anselmo stapled on my forehead.
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  17. #57
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    Re: UK Riots

    Quote Originally Posted by funkydexter View Post

    plenty of fibre and lift your knees.
    lol :d
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  18. #58
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    Re: UK Riots

    I'm SO pleased I missed this thread.
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    Re: UK Riots

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    @DDay, coincidentally I stumbled across this on YouTube. It's a pretty impartial comparison of how the EU and the US treat free speech vs issues like privacy, misinformation, libel etc. I think it's pretty good in that it doesn't take sides, it just lays out the differing policies.
    Thank you! It's only 8 minutes long, so I'll probably watch it on my after lunch walk.
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  20. #60
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    Re: UK Riots

    Greece has freedom of speech. The only issue is that it's not taken in consideration.
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    Re: UK Riots

    Thank you! It's only 8 minutes long, so I'll probably watch it on my after lunch walk.
    It's worth mentioning that the UK isn't in the EU since Brexit but our positions still pretty closely aligned to the EU's.
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  22. #62
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    Re: UK Riots

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post

    Plenty of fibre and lift your knees.
    Too much fibre, and it masters me.
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  23. #63
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    Re: UK Riots

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    Clearly explained. Thanks. The definition in Greece is what the name says without asterisks so I guess you have a lot of deviations. So I'm considering myself a patriot but in US I would probably end up in a blue flower dress smoking crack and have a picture of Saint Anselmo stapled on my forehead.
    You are so 90s. It would be fentanyl, not crack, and I rather doubt many people here would have any idea of who Saint Anselmo was. How about a picture of Che, Trump, Taylor Swift, or a VERY anglicized Jesus, instead? Spongebob would also be an option.

    I agree that the term "patriot" has some very different meanings in different countries. It's politicized and cynically used for material gain, in this country. Occasionally, I stumble across adds for the 4patriots company. They're wrapping themselves in the flag as much as they can, based on their logo and name, and selling paranoia, but the key US point is that they are SELLING!!!! That's the underlying thread: We don't care if you can't make money selling to it.
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    Re: UK Riots

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    @DDay, coincidentally I stumbled across this on YouTube. It's a pretty impartial comparison of how the EU and the US treat free speech vs issues like privacy, misinformation, libel etc. I think it's pretty good in that it doesn't take sides, it just lays out the differing policies.

    I'll leave that up to the individual. If they want it removed, PM me and I'll happily remove it. If I'm honest, I've kinda lost track of large parts of the conversation so I've no idea what's appropriate and what's not.

    Plenty of fibre and lift your knees.
    I viewed that, I almost stopped when it seemed to just be an attack on Musk but that was just a segue into the meat of it. It did wrap up saying how wrong he was....

    I found it informative and easy to follow. The laws are similar but the EU seem to put more emphasis on the humans affects of speech on people lives. I wouldn't mind seeing the EU policies here concerning some recent posts
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    Re: UK Riots

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    How about a picture of Che, Trump, Taylor Swift, or a VERY anglicized Jesus, instead? Spongebob would also be an option.
    Ohhh! So may options! Che Left, Trump Right,Taylor Swift Overrated ,Anglicized Jesus ? Jesus on a cup of tea symposium? Spongebob gay. I would like to be careful on what my head would have stapled so probably Duffy Duck if not a saint.
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  26. #66
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    Re: UK Riots

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    Duffy Duck if not a saint.
    Well, of course not, or else he would have admitted that it was a buck and a quarter, quarter staff.
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    Re: UK Riots

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Well, of course not, or else he would have admitted that it was a buck and a quarter, quarter staff.
    That's a good one. lol

    but that's not as bad as you spelling "White Supremacist" as "Patriot". You only got a few letters right
    Your on a roll.

    but the ones that are most prone to wrapping themselves in the flag...well, their doing it to cover up the bedsheets, which is why "Patriot" is a bit of a fraught word.
    Definitely not just an American thing. More people have been killed in the name of patriotism and God than probably any other reason. Of course, those aren't the real reason, just the words used by those in charge to motivate the troops to do their killing.

  28. #68
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    Re: UK Riots

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Well, of course not, or else he would have admitted that it was a buck and a quarter, quarter staff.
    One of my favorite episodes.

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    Re: UK Riots

    I was watching that episode with some friends when it was interrupted by the news to announce the start of the first gulf war.
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    Re: UK Riots

    I rather doubt many people here would have any idea of who Saint Anselmo
    Lead singer from Pantera. Surprising they beatified him, though.

    I agree that the term "patriot" has some very different meanings in different countries. It's politicized and cynically used for material gain, in this country.
    Heck, it has different meanings in single countries, but the one you laid out has been present in every country I've ever travelled to. It certainly applies in the UK and last months rioters all self described as patriots. Of course, the mosques they attacked were full of British Muslims which would seem to contradict that...

    I almost stopped when it seemed to just be an attack on Musk
    Yeah. it's not really an attack on him but rather they use a false statement he made to open a discussion.
    Last edited by FunkyDexter; Sep 26th, 2024 at 03:59 AM.
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  31. #71
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    Re: UK Riots

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    British Muslims
    That, is a clear definition of be careful what you wish for. When studding in UK there where British Muslims nice fellows but nowadays I see pictures in the UK of British Muslims attacking people with UK flags or breaking christian symbols and such.
    As this is your country and many of you have decided that Christian protesters are fascists and all immigrants are good that is not really my turf to intervene. I guess you are not seen the mass migration of Muslims to your Christian countries and the abnormal behavior of some that can cover the behavior of the ones that are peaceful and lovable. At this rate UK will be a Muslim country in 50 years. Again, your country, perfectly fine if you want that.
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  32. #72
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    Re: UK Riots

    I see pictures in the UK of British Muslims attacking people with UK flags or breaking christian symbols and such.
    Not sure where you're seeing those but they're not representative. We have a very small number of Islamist extremists but it's generally insignificant. They did start to make their presence known in the Pro Palestine marches but they still represented a tiny minority and, contrary to the "two tier" rhetoric you're probably hearing from the right, were effectively policed and charged. Similarly, a few fought back in the more recent riots and they too have faced charges. What you're seeing has been heavily cherry picked.

    As this is your country
    And theirs too. They were born here, they're British and I have no more or less right to the country than they do.

    At this rate UK will be a Muslim country in 50 years
    Highly unlikely. They currently represent less than 7% and it's not trending upward. In fact from 2021 to 2024 it dropped from 6.7% to 6.5%.

    This is the straight up racist rhetoric spouted by the far right. It's lies. Don't buy into it.
    Last edited by FunkyDexter; Sep 26th, 2024 at 05:41 AM.
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  33. #73
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    Re: UK Riots

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    When studding in UK there where British Muslims nice fellows
    So your personal experience with Muslims in this country was positive....

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    but nowadays I see pictures in the UK of British Muslims attacking people with UK flags or breaking christian symbols and such.
    but you are willing to believe things you read on the internet, despite your personal experiences being different?

    Not entirely sure where you are finding these pictures, as there is very little violence from Muslims towards Christians in this country.


    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    I guess you are not seen the mass migration of Muslims to your Christian countries
    In 2021 Muslims made up only 6.5 of the UK population, so hardly "mass migration"


    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    and the abnormal behavior of some that can cover the behavior of the ones that are peaceful and lovable.
    A small minority of Muslims shouldn't be used to justify hate against the rest, just the same as any Christians in the UK committing crimes doesn't generate hate for all other Christians.

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    At this rate UK will be a Muslim country in 50 years. Again, your country, perfectly fine if you want that.
    Not likely to happen, and again this is a favourite argument of the extremist right wing crowd - try to make people afraid of them to justify the hate.

    Does it even matter? Only about 6% of UK citizens identify as practicing Christians. So if you aren't actually practicing "your" faith, does it really matter if other people choose to practice a different faith?

  34. #74
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    Re: UK Riots

    In the US our former president claimed on national TV Haitian immigrants are eating people's cats and dogs. Completely untrue but then Trump and his VP running mate are doubling down, and down again, on the lies. How can you get past hate speech when national leaders are promoting it.
    Last edited by TysonLPrice; Sep 26th, 2024 at 10:04 AM.
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  35. #75
    PowerPoster PlausiblyDamp's Avatar
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    Re: UK Riots

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    In the US our former president claimed on national TV Haitian immigrants are eating people's cats and dogs. Completely untrue but then Trump and is VP are doubling down, and down again, on the lies. How can you get past hate speech when national leaders are promoting it.
    Immigrants and "other foreign types" are an easy target... After all it is far easier to blame them for things like unemployment, lack of benefits, overloaded health service (a very UK issue) etc. than admit the real reason is poor management / corruption within the governing party.

  36. #76
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: UK Riots

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    When studding in UK
    You've lived an interesting life.
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  37. #77
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: UK Riots

    Quote Originally Posted by PlausiblyDamp View Post
    Immigrants and "other foreign types" are an easy target... After all it is far easier to blame them for things like unemployment, lack of benefits, overloaded health service (a very UK issue) etc. than admit the real reason is poor management / corruption within the governing party.
    This is a tried and true strategy: Blame the problems on people who look or speak differently. It's a clear and easy path to power, as it allows people to feel that any problem is external and can be solved by getting rid of some readily definable external threat. A relatively painless and tractable solution.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  38. #78
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    Re: UK Riots

    Quote Originally Posted by PlausiblyDamp View Post
    Immigrants and "other foreign types" are an easy target... After all it is far easier to blame them for things like unemployment, lack of benefits, overloaded health service (a very UK issue) etc. than admit the real reason is poor management / corruption within the governing party.
    The biggest disappointment is even today there is a significant part of our society that is eager to believe and spread these hateful lies. They see/read one negative thing an apply it to the majority of the group. I guess it calms their fears to believe "those people" are the cause of the problems. Or maybe believing immigrants are ignorant savages makes them feel superior.

    It's surprising we can't get past this.

  39. #79
    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
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    Re: UK Riots

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    The biggest disappointment is even today there is a significant part of our society that is eager to believe and spread these hateful lies. They see/read one negative thing an apply it to the majority of the group. I guess it calms their fears to believe "those people" are the cause of the problems. Or maybe believing immigrants are ignorant savages makes them feel superior.

    It's surprising we can't get past this.
    I don't disagree with that but another factor may be that they are in their bubble, forwarding on and believing it to others in their bubble, and not giving it that much more thought. I think you are right but I don't think being "hateful" is crossing their minds. No excuse for that, they just blindly follow the crowd. Just short of a mob
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  40. #80
    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
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    Re: UK Riots

    Something seems to be off to me:

    The major religion of Albanians is Islam, with the majority of Muslims in Albania identifying as Sunni Muslims, while a significant minority belong to the Bektashi order, a branch of Shia Islam
    https://www.google.com/search?q=what...nians&gs_ivs=1

    The largest immigration group to Greece is Alabanian.

    According to the 2011 national census, 480,851 Albanian citizens were permanently resident in the country, though this figure likely excludes significant numbers of undocumented Albanian migrants. Little is known of this latter group, since most of them work informally in construction, farming and domestic work. Conflict between Greece and Albania, particularly over the Greek minority in Albania, has led to this group being subject to reprisals by the Greek government and to increasing popular hostility, fuelled by negative media stereotypes of Albanians.
    https://minorityrights.org/communities/albanians/

    So it seems the UK is dwarfed in comparison to Greece when it come to the number of Muslim immigrants.
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

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