Thread: Biden should go or stay???

1. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Originally Posted by sapator
I told you so.
The blind squirrel award is mine all minneee!!!

FYI..

2. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Originally Posted by TysonLPrice
FYI

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_Not_to_Be_Wrong

President Harris soon...very, very soon. Don't make me say I told you so, because I will do it unashamedly.

3. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Originally Posted by OptionBase1
FYI

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_Not_to_Be_Wrong

President Harris soon...very, very soon. Don't make me say I told you so, because I will do it unashamedly.
Even though I made a career around programming I have problems with logic. From the link:

As a demonstration of the principle, consider two contradictory statements—"All lemons are yellow" and "Not all lemons are yellow"—and suppose that both are true. If that is the case, anything can be proven, e.g., the assertion that "unicorns exist", by using the following argument:

We know that "Not all lemons are yellow", as it has been assumed to be true.

We know that "All lemons are yellow", as it has been assumed to be true.

Therefore, the two-part statement "All lemons are yellow or unicorns exist" must also be true, since the first part of the statement ("All lemons are yellow") has already been assumed, and the use of "or" means that if even one part of the statement is true, the statement as a whole must be true as well.

However, since we also know that "Not all lemons are yellow" (as this has been assumed), the first part is false, and hence the second part must be true to ensure the two-part statement to be true, i.e., unicorns exist (this inference is known as the Disjunctive syllogism).

The procedure may be repeated to prove that unicorns do not exist (hence proving an additional contradiction where unicorns do and do not exist), as well as any other well-formed formula. Thus, there is an explosion of true statements.

In a different solution to the problems posed by the principle of explosion, some mathematicians have devised alternative theories of logic called paraconsistent logics, which allow some contradictory statements to be proven without affecting the truth value of (all) other statements.[7]

4. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Originally Posted by Steve R Jones
In the picture it looks like his lips are moving.
Your right, I shouldn't have been disgusted by his display of lies and cruelty. That's normal for him.

5. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Originally Posted by dday9
I had to look that one up, I had no idea what you were talking about! Not only was that before my time, but that was before my dad's time too!
Lol. It's how soon we get shows in Greece , 50 years after

6. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Originally Posted by TysonLPrice
If you can't distinguish the joke we are making for quite a few post please do not participate, it put's me in a rather awkward position having to explain it and either shows obsession or humorless. Thank you.

7. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Note: This isn't directed at anyone in particular, or in response to any recent posts.

In the interest of equal time, I offer the following.

Anyone who is "happy" about this current political chaos, with Biden dropping out, and now whisperings of his potentially imminent resignation, is possibly an idiot, or at the very least very shortsighted.

If you think it is good, either because you think it is more likely that Trump gets elected because of it, or you think it is less likely that Trump gets elected because of it, you are ignoring the fact that the USA has been historically vulnerable to attacks whenever there is "top level" political uncertainty. It is not good.

8. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Originally Posted by sapator
If you can't distinguish the joke we are making for quite a few post please do not participate, it put's me in a rather awkward position having to explain it and either shows obsession or humorless. Thank you.
It someone can't distinguish your jokes perhaps it is on you, or maybe "I told you so" just isn't funny...

9. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Anyone who is "happy" about this current political chaos, with Biden dropping out, and now whisperings of his potentially imminent resignation, is possibly an idiot, or at the very least very shortsighted.

If you think it is good, either because you think it is more likely that Trump gets elected because of it, or you think it is less likely that Trump gets elected because of it, you are ignoring the fact that the USA has been historically vulnerable to attacks whenever there is "top level" political uncertainty. It is not good.
Not sure what historical attacks you are referring to??

I don't think Biden dropping out of the presidential race increases the political uncertainty. I think you can make the case that it increases our political certainty due to the amount of concern there was over Bidens age. Either way, I wouldn't call people who are happy about Biden leaving the race an idiot or short sighted. He just wasn't their preference.

10. Re: Biden should go or stay???

It couldn't be held. Biden was clearly not fit but that was withheld until the debate, after the debate there was nothing more to be done.
The problem is why they insisted of withholding Biden's condition. Also Trump's crew made a serious mistake that they did not see that Biden will go zap zip slluuzz in the debate and allowed to take place very early in the race. They might have paid that because it was almost certain Biden will be replaced but the attack on Trump although despicable was very helpful for him and will probably save his election.

11. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Originally Posted by OptionBase1
Anyone who is "happy" about this current political chaos, with Biden dropping out, and now whisperings of his potentially imminent resignation, is possibly an idiot, or at the very least very shortsighted.
I think the entire thing appeals to the collapsetarian in me. Sort of "you reap what you sow" mentality. I think this entire political process is terrible for the country, but there's nothing I can do about it and voters on both sides put themselves in this situation. So what else is there for me to do but to get a few cheap laughs out of it?

In 2020, Biden literally ran out of his basement under the notion that "we're in the middle of a once in a century pandemic, I'm doing the right thing, and Donald Trump is doing the wrong thing by holding these outdoor rallies" then over the years there have been people pointing out that Biden is in an obvious mental decline but the DNC and the corporate media vehemently denied it (remember the shortest lived propaganda "cheap fakes") until it got to the point to where you just couldn't anymore.

The Trump administration was an absolute disaster. His main two priorities in 2016 was to "build the wall" and "drain the swamp". Well, we have no wall and he appointed John Bolton of all people as the national security advisor (need I say more). And what's his pitch in 2024? I'm going to make America great again and this time I'll really do it. Sure Trump, sure.

This stretches back to as far as I can remember. I remember in 2008, Obama had a golden opportunity to unite this country and instead he pursued identity politics which deeply divided the country and I think was one of the contributing factors to putting Trump (the obvious outsider) over the finish line.

So yeah, I am incredibly frustrated with the state of our country, I blame the partisans for putting the R's and D's we have in power, and it does make me a bit gleeful that this election cycle has gone to crap.

12. Re: Biden should go or stay???

So yeah, I am incredibly frustrated with the state of our country, I blame the partisans for putting the R's and D's we have in power, and it does make me a bit gleeful that this election cycle has gone to crap.
I wouldn't get frustrated, it's just politics. lol

But I can't think of one political system that doesn't have it's problems, we're no different.

13. Re: Biden should go or stay???

There is no denying either one of those statements.

14. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Originally Posted by wes4dbt
I wouldn't get frustrated, it's just politics. lol

But I can't think of one political system that doesn't have it's problems, we're no different.
Gosh yes...the republicans haven't won he popular vote for decades in presidential elections but they keep winning office.

15. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Originally Posted by TysonLPrice
Gosh yes...the republicans haven't won he popular vote for decades in presidential elections but they keep winning office.
Let me see if I understand you correctly. You're in favor of democracy when the electoral college snubs your party, but against it when your convinced that your party candidate must go. Is that about right?

16. Re: Biden should go or stay???

You're in favor of democracy when the electoral college snubs your party, but against it when your convinced that your party candidate must go.
What have I missed??? Don't remember Ty ever being against democracy.

17. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Originally Posted by dday9
Let me see if I understand you correctly. You're in favor of democracy when the electoral college snubs your party, but against it when your convinced that your party candidate must go. Is that about right?
I said nothing of the sort. What I said is "the republicans haven't won he popular vote for decades in presidential elections but they keep winning office". What that means is the majority of Americans didn't vote for them for in a number of election cycles. Meaning they are out of step with mainstream America. The electoral college was never mentioned but since you brought it up. Why should a state with less people than my home town "out vote" a state with 100 times the population?

18. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Our local media stated "licking" Kamala up and down. They showed 30 seconds of Trump and 15 minutes of Kamala.
And I don't get what exactly do they have to gain except show submission to their masters. It's sickening.

19. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Originally Posted by sapator
Our local media stated "licking" Kamala up and down. They showed 30 seconds of Trump and 15 minutes of Kamala.
And I don't get what exactly do they have to gain except show submission to their masters. It's sickening.
I bet you have dozens of posters of Trump around your place.

Maybe your media is tired of the same old same old from Trump, because he's like a broken record, forever complaining. He never outlines a positive vision for the future. He never presents clear policy proposals to tackle issues like the economy, healthcare, education, the environment, and social justice. He never states a brief relatable personal story to connect with his supporters.

Now Kamala, people want to hear what she has to say since she mostly worked in the background over the years.

If you was your media, would you want fresh material to show, or keep reporting Trump's same messages that their viewers can repeat verbatim?

20. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Originally Posted by wes4dbt
What have I missed??? Don't remember Ty ever being against democracy.
Looking back, I was definitely making an assumption based on this post:
Originally Posted by TysonLPrice
I would have preferred Biden didn't run again. Most people know I'm rabidly anti-Trump so I would vote for Biden if his head was in a jar.
I have been listening to a bunch of podcasts and pretty much the entirety of the leftwing podcasts I was listening to were talking about how Biden should get out and that the best option would be for him to drop. That, combined with some of Tyson's other comments, I made the mistake of conflating.

Originally Posted by TysonLPrice
The electoral college was never mentioned but since you brought it up. Why should a state with less people than my home town "out vote" a state with 100 times the population?
Yes, let's get into a discussion about the pro's and con's of federalism vs democracy. I'm sure that will be very constructive.

However, since I concede that I conflated what you said, what is your position on Joe Biden dropping out after outside pressure despite being democratically chosen by the people through the primary process? Would you say that is undemocratic? What do you think the party should do to respect the votes cast in primary process?

21. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Yes, let's get into a discussion about the pro's and con's of federalism vs democracy. I'm sure that will be very constructive.

However, since I concede that I conflated what you said, what is your position on Joe Biden dropping out after outside pressure despite being democratically chosen by the people through the primary process? Would you say that is undemocratic? What do you think the party should do to respect the votes cast in primary process?
I'm not sure how a discussion about the American electoral college equates to "the pro's and con's of federalism vs democracy". Could you expand on that?

You don't know why Biden dropped out. I think there were more people encouraging him to stay in then get out. That did break down quickly though. For all we know his getting Covid forced him to look at his health differently. As far as the democratic party picking who they want to run as president, so what? It isn't a government, it is a political party. The other side doesn't need to worry about that, it is run by Trump's family.

22. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Originally Posted by TysonLPrice
As far as the democratic party picking who they want to run as president, so what? It isn't a government, it is a political party. The other side doesn't need to worry about that, it is run by Trump's family.
OK, so it's more or less what I'd expect from you then.

23. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Originally Posted by dday9
OK, so it's more or less what I'd expect from you then.
Would you rather discuss "the pro's and con's of federalism vs democracy"

what is your position on Joe Biden dropping out after outside pressure despite being democratically chosen by the people through the primary process? Would you say that is undemocratic? What do you think the party should do to respect the votes cast in primary process?
That is one of the top republican talking points today. I gave it all the attention it deserved.

24. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Originally Posted by TysonLPrice
That is one of the top republican talking points today. I gave it all the attention it deserved.
I'm certainly not a Republican, but I'm bringing it up.

Democrats for years have talked about electing Donald Trump would bring an end to democracy, you yourself said it plenty. That is why I think it is a valid point, not because some right-wing media outlets are saying it.

25. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Originally Posted by dday9
I'm certainly not a Republican, but I'm bringing it up.

Democrats for years have talked about electing Donald Trump would bring an end to democracy, you yourself said it plenty. That is why I think it is a valid point, not because some right-wing media outlets are saying it.
Despite what you think you don't know why he dropped out. There was plenty of pressure but you don't really know. Maybe his family convinced him. Maybe Obama and Soros decided for him, the republicans seem to think so. As far as the Democratic party picking Harris, I say again "so what". It was a party decision, people can switch if they don't like it. I think trying to push anyone else this late would be a huge mistake. Just look at the money coming in. In my opinion it was a "no brainer", not undemocratic.

26. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Originally Posted by TysonLPrice
In my opinion it was a "no brainer", not undemocratic.
The two are not mutually exclusive.

27. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Originally Posted by dday9
The two are not mutually exclusive.
OMG...we agree

28. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Biden dropped because of the debate showing how bad his condition is.
Who forced or if he decided himself does not really matter now, does it?
What I've said before was the republicans did a mistake on the early debate but then again, what is done is done.

29. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Originally Posted by Peter Porter
I bet you have dozens of posters of Trump around your place.

Maybe your media is tired of the same old same old from Trump, because he's like a broken record, forever complaining. He never outlines a positive vision for the future. He never presents clear policy proposals to tackle issues like the economy, healthcare, education, the environment, and social justice. He never states a brief relatable personal story to connect with his supporters.

Now Kamala, people want to hear what she has to say since she mostly worked in the background over the years.

If you was your media, would you want fresh material to show, or keep reporting Trump's same messages that their viewers can repeat verbatim?
No on all counts. I wouldn't care who is elected but sleepy was a danger to the world. Also our media did not really show anything on Trump except the trial, it's like he did not existed. The assassination was treated with a 5 minutes report and then forgotten. So allow me to know more of our social media and I'm closer than you think to our social media.

30. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Originally Posted by sapator
So allow me to know more of our social media and I'm closer than you think to our social media.
Alrighty then.

31. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Not in the least of telling you off tho, just to be clear.

32. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Pelosi, who represents San Francisco in Congress, announced that with the endorsement of California’s delegation, Harris had earned enough delegates to win the Democratic nomination for president in August.

Next step the "democratic" convention.

33. Re: Biden should go or stay???

However, since I concede that I conflated what you said, what is your position on Joe Biden dropping out after outside pressure despite being democratically chosen by the people through the primary process? Would you say that is undemocratic? What do you think the party should do to respect the votes cast in primary process?
Don't see how someone choosing to drop out of a political race can be undemocratic. Running for president is a voluntary act. The fact there was "outside pressure" isn't a real issue, when isn't there outside pressure. It's part of politics, though you rarely see your own party pressuring their front runner to step away. Those who chose Biden in their primary have the right to be disappointed but nothing undemocratic has happened. What can the party do about the votes cast in the primaries? Not much at this late date. My guess is there are just as many people in those primary states that are happy Biden dropped out as people who feel disappointed. There really wasn't much involvement by Biden in the primaries, really wasn't much choice. I know that's not the point. My point is Biden didn't come to their state and win them over, Biden basically got their vote by default.

Would it be more democratic to force Biden to stay in the race? It's a crazy election for sure. I really have no idea how it's going to turn out.

34. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Originally Posted by wes4dbt
Don't see how someone choosing to drop out of a political race can be undemocratic. Running for president is a voluntary act. The fact there was "outside pressure" isn't a real issue, when isn't there outside pressure. It's part of politics, though you rarely see your own party pressuring their front runner to step away. Those who chose Biden in their primary have the right to be disappointed but nothing undemocratic has happened. What can the party do about the votes cast in the primaries? Not much at this late date. My guess is there are just as many people in those primary states that are happy Biden dropped out as people who feel disappointed. There really wasn't much involvement by Biden in the primaries, really wasn't much choice. I know that's not the point. My point is Biden didn't come to their state and win them over, Biden basically got their vote by default.

Would it be more democratic to force Biden to stay in the race? It's a crazy election for sure. I really have no idea how it's going to turn out.
It's not that Biden dropped out that people are having heartburn over ... it's the selection of a new candidate ... choosing the replacement. The people voted for A ... A is now out of the race... so who should be the replacement. There's several factors at work here. Some have called for an "open contest" ... ie, there's no presumptive candidate until the convention and it's decided right there, on the floor in an open call. Others think there should be a new special primary. Others still think that they should just pick someone and have the delegates re-cast their votes. I don't know what the Party Charter calls for in this case and I'm not in the mood to go track it down. Ultimately it's the party's call on how they want to handle it. In this case it sounds like they have opted to have State Delegates meet and re-vote on a candidate - Harris.

-tg

35. Re: Biden should go or stay???

It's not that Biden dropped out that people are having heartburn over ... it's the selection of a new candidate ... choosing the replacement
I understand this issue. My post was in response to people having "heartburn" over Biden dropping out being undemocratic. Or people like Speaker Johnson claiming it's unlawful https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/john...y?id=112129063

But politics are full of people having heartburn over something. I like that term "having heartburn". lol

36. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Here is something we have to look forward to if republicans win:

"Sunday was the hottest day ever recorded on Earth, scientists say"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/clima...limate-change/

"Textbook authors told climate change references must be cut to get Florida’s OK"

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2024...t-floridas-ok/

Maybe democracy is not at stake but, 1984 type, reality is at stake.

37. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Originally Posted by techgnome
It's not that Biden dropped out that people are having heartburn over ... it's the selection of a new candidate ... choosing the replacement. The people voted for A ... A is now out of the race... so who should be the replacement. There's several factors at work here. Some have called for an "open contest" ... ie, there's no presumptive candidate until the convention and it's decided right there, on the floor in an open call. Others think there should be a new special primary. Others still think that they should just pick someone and have the delegates re-cast their votes. I don't know what the Party Charter calls for in this case and I'm not in the mood to go track it down. Ultimately it's the party's call on how they want to handle it. In this case it sounds like they have opted to have State Delegates meet and re-vote on a candidate - Harris.

-tg
OK...accepting that is all true. The republican national committee is run by Trump's family. How democratic is that?

38. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Originally Posted by TysonLPrice
OK...accepting that is all true. The republican national committee is run by Trump's family. How democratic is that?
I think the RNC is foolish for letting that happen but don't see where it's not democratic. It's also not surprising, the RNC has basically given control to Trump for a long time. I thought they were going to move away from his after Jan 6th but they lost their nerve and decided it would be safer for them to be his servant.

Edit: I'll add that the RNC has a real reason to fear Trump. A large segment of republicans are very loyal to Trump. If they would have dumped Trump he would be quite capable of convincing them to turn against the Republican party. Because Trump doesn't care about the republican party. That would be a disaster for them.

That's what I guesstimate.

39. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Originally Posted by wes4dbt
I think the RNC is foolish for letting that happen but don't see where it's not democratic. It's also not surprising, the RNC has basically given control to Trump for a long time. I thought they were going to move away from his after Jan 6th but they lost their nerve and decided it would be safer for them to be his servant.

Edit: I'll add that the RNC has a real reason to fear Trump. A large segment of republicans are very loyal to Trump. If they would have dumped Trump he would be quite capable of convincing them to turn against the Republican party. Because Trump doesn't care about the republican party. That would be a disaster for them.

That's what I guesstimate.
How foolish of me to think that five family members running the RNC for their father who is running for president isn't democratic. On second thought what could be more American.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...elania-ivanka/

40. Re: Biden should go or stay???

Originally Posted by TysonLPrice
How foolish of me to think that five family members running the RNC for their father who is running for president isn't democratic. On second thought what could be more American.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...elania-ivanka/

lol

An explanation of why it's not democratic would help clear things up.

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