Biden should go or stay???

[wes4dbt]

I've said from the beginning that Biden shouldn't run. His age is just to big an obstacle to over come. I thought just about any other Dem candidate could defeat Trump but not Biden. For some reason the Dem's chose to ignore the age problem, so here we are.

After the debate disaster it seems clear there is not way for Biden to win. But I also think it's to late for another candidate to take over and win.

So, what's the Dem's best chance to win? My vote, run someone else, at least there would be a slim chance. Running Biden is a certain lose.

[sapator]

Trump did a mistake there accepting the debate so early, giving the Democrats time to regroup and possibly choose someone, anyone really but Biden. Trump will win but if Biden runs he will win by a landslide. I'm not sure what are the benefits on getting more, a lot more, percentage than you need to win other than more representatives on the parliament.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Trump won't win by anything like a landslide no matter who runs. He has a rabid fan base, but an equally rabid (and larger) opposition. He's an intensely polarizing figure, and no spring chicken (in case you don't get that reference, a spring chicken is a chicken so rubbery that you can use it to absorb shocks in an automobile chassis...well, that's not it, but it was more fun to write). His path to victory is essentially through the electoral college, and even that will be close.

In the US, neither party can win on their own. To win, you have to have the independents voting for you, or at least not voting for your opponent. Getting people to stay home is a strategy in wider US elections (local elections have a very different dynamic, where the challenge is to get ANYBODY to show up). For example, in the last election, more people voted for Trump than for any other candidate in history save one, which was Biden. And even with that, more eligible voters sat it out than voted for either one (not more than voted for both combined, but more than voted for either one). Getting people to turn out to vote is THE challenge in US elections, and drives the outcome more than any other factor. Any side that is particularly effective at turning out the vote, wins.

The problem for Biden is that Trump's supporters will show up, while his might not. I don't think he should have run, either. I feel that for the good of the country, he should have passed on the baton, but at this point, I'm not sure that's even viable.

Right now, the Republican's are playing up Biden's age, partly using altered videos and clips. That is mostly talking to the wrong audience. Trump is talking about immigrants, which is talking to the right audience. The Democrats don't seem to be talking much at all.

[yereverluvinuncleber]

The question summed up in a song: https://youtu.be/xMaE6toi4mk?si=BRTMuvi6jR2mVe1_&t=20

[wes4dbt]

The problem for Biden is that Trump's supporters will show up, while his might not. I don't think he should have run, either. I feel that for the good of the country, he should have passed on the baton, but at this point, I'm not sure that's even viable.

I'm not sure it's viable either but doing nothing seems like a losing strategy.

I'm curious to see if the love/hate of Trump drives a high or low turnout. I'd say the largest segment of voters don't want either one.

[wes4dbt]

I didn't even consider this possibility https://currently.att.yahoo.com/att/...131928080.html

that surprises me. lol

[Shaggy Hiker]

I was going to say that Obama would beat Trump, except that he can't run. Hadn't thought about Michelle. I think she likely would beat Trump. It's an interesting idea.

[Steve R Jones]

A few weeks ago, I think Michelle wouldn't consider the option... TODAY - another story.

[TysonLPrice]

I would have preferred Biden didn't run again. Most people know I'm rabidly anti-Trump so I would vote for Biden if his head was in a jar. It will come down to who the winner surrounds himself with. Count the people that were in the Trump administration that went to jail or were prosecuted and then count how many from the Biden administration. People clutch their pearls about how bad it will be if their guy doesn't win. I truly believe Trump will be the end of our democracy as we know it. If that hasn't already happens because of his minions in his camp.

[FunkyDexter]

If you'd asked me a week ago I wouldn't have argued against Biden running. I don't think he was the best candidate but a lot of the other options seemed to be too divisive e.g. Kamala Harris. Biden was old but he seems to have been a fairly unifying character across the Left and Centre (n.b. NOT the right). I think there were probably a few better candidates but being the incumbent historically carries weight.

That was a week ago but then that debate happened. He was awful in that and I don't buy for a second that you can blame it on the sniffles, he was cognitively impaired. I think he probably has good days and bad days and that was a BAD one but his speech the next day was a different man so he seems to come and go. Incidentally, I don't think that cognitive impairment is necessarily an obstruction to being President (it didn't stop Reagan in his second term) and the ability to build a good team around you is far more important but that's not going to change how undecided voters react to that debate.

So at this point I think he's probably lost the race to Trump if he stays. If he pulls out a wicked smart debate further down the line maybe he can turn it around but it's a coin toss as to whether he can and a second coin toss on whether it would change anything. The question is does replacing him at this stage help that situation or make it worse. Given the short time scale left, I think it would only help if it was someone high profile enough to have name recognition among undecided voters while also not being divisive. I can't think of a current Dem politician who meets that description but, being a Brit, I don't get the same level of exposure as you guys do so you're likely to know possibilities that I don't.

Or it could be an outsider. You guys have mentions Michelle Obama who seems like a reasonable suggestion to me but is she considered divisive over there (asking because I genuinely don't know)? As the wife of Barack that would play into the conspiracies about Barack controlling Biden this whole time and it kinda hearkens back to Hilary being the wife of Bill.

Or a prominent celebrity might be able to slot in. That's what Trump did, after all. I've heard Oprah mentioned a few times over the last few years though I've never known how seriously.

[sapator]

Michelle Obama IMO would suffice if they go for it. After the debate even the last person has been convinced that he simply cannot cope with it basically what I was saying for a couple of years.
I don't think it can get much worse than what it is if they change a candidate. Of course that is up to the deep state if it will keep him or not, fingers crossed they keep Im.

[OptionBase1]

To me, these threads always read like pro wrestling fans arguing about who is going to win the next WWE match or something. I'll never understand how people let partisanship blind their senses of reality. And, whoever reads this, if you think I'm referring to you, I'm not. I'm referring to the others in this thread.

[Shaggy Hiker]

And, whoever reads this, if you think I'm referring to you, I'm not. I'm referring to the others in this thread.

Well done!

[sapator]

Correct but we, the outsources don't really care. I won't cry over it if Biden wins again, it's US problem or benefit.

[TysonLPrice]

To me, these threads always read like pro wrestling fans arguing about who is going to win the next WWE match or something. I'll never understand how people let partisanship blind their senses of reality. And, whoever reads this, if you think I'm referring to you, I'm not. I'm referring to the others in this thread.

That seems very simplistic to me ..an excuse to stay out of the fray...

It is not "pro wrestling", it is the direction of this country at stake. Reducing it to those terms shows the ignorance of the average voter. Our country is on the edge of a knife, it is not a "wresting match". Who wins the next election will be where this country goes politically for the next generation.

[FunkyDexter]

it's US problem or benefit.

When America sneezes the world catches a cold. We're affected, we just don't get a say.

Our country is on the edge of a knife

I'm inclined to agree. Biden may or may not be a walking mushroom at this point but Trump is an autocrat who's already tried to overturn a legitimate election to hold on to power. I'd take an incompetent over an autocrat any day of the week.

[dilettante]

Shouting lies loudly and repeatedly does not transform them into truths.

[sapator]

When America sneezes the world catches a cold. We're affected, we just don't get a say.

To that I agree but with a twist. Don't take it the wrong way you know I love you but England is US puppy (although Farage, that was a pleasant twist), it will stiff one way or the other. Greece on the other hand is US , how to say, banana republic, out traitor government and a couple before will do whatever US tells them. Examples are letting Turkey get F-16 planes , allow Skopje to be called North Fakeonia, denying oil pipes to be created directly from Russia, having 10 military bases in Greece but without helping us even on simple thing like a fire, getting to pass pro trans child adoption rules not letting us protest when Turkey called Aegean TurkAegean, been responsible for allowing the occupation of Cyprus by demanding Greek troops to leave (during the cue era), making us take Ukraine part not allowing a referendum although 90% of the people here are with Russia. Making us buy F-35 fighters that are not fit for defense but for attack (we are defending the country) and I believe there is a report for F35 having a lot of issues,etc. Every couple of days a traitor politician goes to the US embassy here to get instructions.
So what I'm saying is it does not matter if Trump or Biden wins as we are taken for granted and we will do as told (not us, the traitors). For an exoteric observer a US patriotic government seems better that a mummy war so...

[wes4dbt]

Biden may or may not be a walking mushroom at this point but Trump is an autocrat who's already tried to overturn a legitimate election to hold on to power.

It's astonishing how easily Trump supporters overlook that fact or act as if it's wasn't a big deal. They also easily overlook the fact that the election fraud was all a lie. A lie he continues to tell.

I remember when they attacked congress, a friend of mine, a Trump supporter, messaged me and said I should turn on the TV, people were storming the congress. He thought it was great, I told him I had no desire to watch an anger mob try and overthrow our democracy. I left the house to take care of some business.

[wes4dbt]

All the tap dancing Biden and then Dem's are doing right now reminds me of how the band kept playing as the Titanic sunk(I don't know it that's a true story). I can't see a path to recovery, people can't unsee something and the Rep's will keep that vision fresh in there mind.

I've already come to terms with Trump winning. It does annoy me when bad people win and Trump is a truly disgusting person. Personally, my life probably wont be affected, but I think the country will be negatively impacted. I don't have as bleak of an outlook as Ty about what a second Trump presidency will mean for the country. Our democracy will survive.

[sapator]

I personally believe US will be better with Trump but you will let us know when the presidency stats. Will see then and talk about it anyhow.
Just some info on not voting. Not related to anyone here just ancient Greece info. The word you know, "idiot", comes from ancient Greece that an idiot was considered a person that did not want to meddle with the commons, not voting etc. So it was not such of a curse word , more to demonstrate laziness and self indulgent. In a way Greece has 60% idiots that did not vote and 20% hobknockers voting traitors

[TysonLPrice]

I don't have as bleak of an outlook as Ty about what a second Trump presidency will mean for the country. Our democracy will survive.

I thought the same thing until recently. Trump leads a movement that is making it harder to vote and have more control over what votes are counted. That is an ongoing effort. He plans to change the rules of who and how government employees are retained. They will be replaced with loyalists. Likewise the DOJ. He will trash international norms to the point the US will no longer have the credibility of an ally Biden restored after Trump's first term.

But here is what is changing my mind. The movement is building and will go on past him. The ways of our past elections and what is politically acceptable are gone and not coming back. A Trump victory will cement that. I have been arguing our democracy is strong and can withstand another Trump term for a while. I think it is being replaced with the Trump team and they will continue the movement when he has gone. Maybe it will swing that far and then back, if there is a back.

[Steve R Jones]

Trump Throws 4th Of July Fit In 'Disgraceful' New Holiday Tantrum

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...e7f4aa5b&ei=15

Luckily, Trump will always be his own worst enemy.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I personally believe US will be better with Trump but you will let us know when the presidency stats. Will see then and talk about it anyhow.
Just some info on not voting. Not related to anyone here just ancient Greece info. The word you know, "idiot", comes from ancient Greece that an idiot was considered a person that did not want to meddle with the commons, not voting etc. So it was not such of a curse word , more to demonstrate laziness and self indulgent. In a way Greece has 60% idiots that did not vote and 20% hobknockers voting traitors

You have 40% turnout for votes? I thought the US was bad, but we're always over 50% for national elections. Local elections can be below 40%, but national elections are better than that.

[sapator]

That is an issue yes. What the current traitors and them before accomplished was made people get sick of politicians so they don't attend. With a good reason I can concur but there are a couple of patriotic parties showing good sings. Actually only one is completely trusted (well, as completely as it may be) and it's at 10% from 4 percent last time. The traitoric parties went from 41 to 27, 18 to 14 and from 12 to 12. If this continues next elections will be a nice surprise.
And about remote voting, The traitors had 27 real attendance and the remote voting was 41%(!) , that specific patriotic party had 10% atreal attendance and 2,1% remote(!!) all the other parties where close to their real attendance percentage. Is someone steeealing?! Hmm? And by remote attendance I mean remote but inside the country not remote from another country.

[TysonLPrice]

We are in the "Double Hate"

https://www.axios.com/2024/05/04/dou...-2024-election

I dread Trump winning...

[TysonLPrice]

That is an issue yes. What the current traitors and them before accomplished was made people get sick of politicians so they don't attend. With a good reason I can concur but there are a couple of patriotic parties showing good sings. Actually only one is completely trusted (well, as completely as it may be) and it's at 10% from 4 percent last time. The traitoric parties went from 41 to 27, 18 to 14 and from 12 to 12. If this continues next elections will be a nice surprise.
And about remote voting, The traitors had 27 real attendance and the remote voting was 41%(!) , that specific patriotic party had 10% atreal attendance and 2,1% remote(!!) all the other parties where close to their real attendance percentage. Is someone steeealing?! Hmm? And by remote attendance I mean remote but inside the country not remote from another country.

Just don't make eye contact

[dday9]

I've already made my decision that I'm probably voting for Bobby Kennedy although this could change to Chase Oliver, though at this point I don't think that's likely. Either way, my vote doesn't mean squat. But I bring this up because the DNC and corporate media are trying to memory hole the fact that a traditional Democrat who is part of "America's royal family" was essentially pushed out by party leadership.

The DNC brought this "Biden" problem on themselves. Marianne Williamson might be a nut job, but she's right in saying that the DNC changed the primary process to favor Biden, which is nuts considering that he is the incumbent.

A common argument made by Republicans was that Biden has been in obvious mental decline almost to a state of incompetency, but the cooperate media touted that as a right-wing conspiracy. The DNC didn't help themselves in pushing back against this argument when they decided that they would not hold any primary debates. So the first time Biden gets in front of a debate stage is against Donald Trump where he figurately poops his pants; how in the world does that help push back against the Republican argument?

There's also the fact that Biden has done hardly any interviews. Last I saw, he has given fewer media interviews than any other president since Reagan. It doesn't help when he stumbles on his opening line for his first post-interview debate with George Stephanopoulos and within the first minute/minute 30 he starts giving incoherent rants. That post-interview debate was supposed to be softballs lobbed over the plate and he still struggled.

Circling back, the DNC did this to themselves and the democratic process got Biden the party's nomination.

Trump won't win by anything like a landslide no matter who runs.

Right now, the RCP average has Trump at a +4.9 when including Kennedy, Stein, and West and a +3.3 when it is only against Biden. If Trump is +3% or higher outside the margin of error come election day, I could see how that would be a landslide in the electoral college.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Because only a few states are in play.

[sapator]

I hate to tell you I told you so but, I told you so. Of course when I was bashing Biden I was the bad guy.Fortunately more and more people come to their senses, except of course the stubborn mules, to them if you say the sky is blue they will argue that it's green and they will keep that argument no matter what. The Democrats should change leadership and IMO should change agenda cuz more and more people stop buying.
As for the landslide. I believe it will be a landslide with Biden but will see.

[wes4dbt]

I hate to tell you I told you so but, I told you so

I doubt that.

[sapator]

I rest my case.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then.

[dday9]

Squirrel dumplings and squirrel gumbo is good.

[sapator]

So you are telling me that this looks yummy?

https://realtree.com/timber-2-table-...-and-dumplings
https://cdn.media.amplience.net/i/re...ng-squirrel-54

[wes4dbt]

Oh, I thought the squirrels were cooking the dumplings and gumbo. I was impressed you taught a squirrel to cook. lol

[TysonLPrice]

I rest my case.

Do you really think you won that case? You set it up so no matter how cogent the answer might be you will call it "except of course the stubborn mules, to them if you say the sky is blue they will argue that it's green and they will keep that argument no matter what". You have excluded all other discussion points. I guess in that way you can "rest your case", you refuse to acknowledge any other opinions, except that they are unreasonable.

[sapator]

It's funny how someone will skip every other singe post just to target what he desires most, drooling, and ultimately , as I did not specify, overtake the roll of the "mule". A happy mule, cute with rainbow farting and very squishy (that is for Shaggy removing my post again)
Don't you have a lawn to water or something?

[TysonLPrice]

It's funny how someone will skip every other singe post just to target what he desires most, drooling, and ultimately , as I did not specify, overtake the roll of the "mule". A happy mule, cute with rainbow farting and very squishy (that is for Shaggy removing my post again)
Don't you have a lawn to water or something?

I rest my case...

[sapator]

I think it's called obsession , or stalking, or compulsive behavior. So 500 meters restriction would be the minimum.
I might have broken CM also