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Thread: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

  1. #121
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    hive, Hive, Flat Earther.
    Is that a new football audible? If not, it should be to run a play where the running back just runs in a circle and the defense follows him.
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  2. #122
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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    Is that a new football audible? If not, it should be to run a play where the running back just runs in a circle and the defense follows him.
    lol

    Good one

    The complete play call is,

    Omaha, dupe 24, dupe 24, Hive, Hive, Flat Earther, Hike.
    Last edited by wes4dbt; Jun 4th, 2024 at 04:15 PM.

  3. #123

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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Oh come on.

    When anyone tries to make an argument the hive mind doesn't accept, sources are demanded. Provide sources and those sources are discredited out of hand. Pointing out that the summaries given by the hive's own references conclude that the hive is parroting dangerous fallacies long cast aside by political scientists, the messenger is blamed followed by tap-dancing wildly in denial of those sources claiming their intent was not their intent.

    The Flat Earthing here is stifling.
    Your last several posts were obvious troll bait and you succeeded, I'm a little surprised you were taken seriously...
    Last edited by TysonLPrice; Jun 4th, 2024 at 06:42 PM.
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  4. #124
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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Oh come on.

    When anyone tries to make an argument the hive mind doesn't accept, sources are demanded. Provide sources and those sources are discredited out of hand. Pointing out that the summaries given by the hive's own references conclude that the hive is parroting dangerous fallacies long cast aside by political scientists, the messenger is blamed followed by tap-dancing wildly in denial of those sources claiming their intent was not their intent.

    The Flat Earthing here is stifling.


    That. The hive, intentional or not and of course excluding certain people.

    A parenthesis since it was brought up briefly, won't go down the road again.

    I remember dil and others shown stuff like vaccines are not as effective, social distance a hox and if I'm not wrong (maybe it was Mityocs) the virus started from a lab in China. He got bombarded by the hive.
    Well, https://www2.cbn.com/news/us/fauci-d...-first-thought

    My thoughts where more radical but I'm waiting for the Euro elections and hopefully if the patriotic parties take control, nothing more, nothing less, just a post on the billion dollars lawsuit from EU on the vaccine hoax.
    Fingers crossed and here's to Democracy not Wokeocracy.

    Parenthesis closed.
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  5. #125
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    Now I remember you mentioning this before. I'm surprised this could happen without congressional approval, there seems to be some debate about that.
    The thing about that petition is that Congress would be hard pressed to do anything about it. It's a mathematical trick, not a matter of law. All their saying is that the state's electoral college delegates will cast their votes for the winner of the national popular vote. If over half the delegates are committed in that way, then whoever wins the national popular vote must necessarily win the electoral college.

    A law at the federal level that could counter that would be pretty difficult, as it would be telling the states who their electoral college delegates must vote for, which is a problematic proposal.
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  6. #126
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    Parenthesis closed.
    I was going to be all offended that you closed a parenthesis without opening one, but I see that you kind of did open one, if not quite as explicitly as you closed it. I was going to say, "who do you think you are, a member of the Schitsu'umsh tribe?"

    I don't actually know if I have the right tribe, but they're in the right area. There's a rest stop on a bike trail up there, which has a name with a single parenthesis in it. How the heck do you pronounce a single parenthesis? Apparently, it depends on the linguistic system used. It's not a glottal stop, as that's what the ' in Schitsu'umsh is for, and there are a couple of them in the name for that rest area.

    Found it: "Hn'Ya)pqi'nn"
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  7. #127
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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    How the heck do you pronounce a single parenthesis?
    You get under a desk and make sure no one is looking and with a mumbling voice you say "single parenthesis"
    But I guess there is left or right parenthesis , that is a single parenthesis if you don't use both .
    Greek btw "para" something less contrast switching and "tithemai" put somewhere , place something.
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  8. #128
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    Not to derail this thread but going back to the original topic, I have some questions about the actual trial.

    I mentioned in one of my earlier posts that I felt that this NY case was a big nothing whereas the GA case actually has some meat on it. I was coming from the perspective of: the NY case looks like a simple hush money payment, which are completely legal, filed wrongly by his lawyer/bookkeeper whereas the GA case looks like POTUS putting pressure on a state official to change the outcome of an election.

    But after listening to the Chris Cuomo/Dave Smith debate on the Pat Bet-David show and heard why Cuomo was against the NY conviction, I dug into it a little bit more.
    1. What I've read: Yes, wrongly filing the payment is a crime but this is a misdemeanor at best. My question: What raised this the level of a felony? Is it just the number of charges?
    2. What I've read: Prosecutorial discretion should have been used and the case shouldn't have gone to trial, in fact this DA has done this across 70% of their cases. My observation: This was obviously political from the get go, so it shouldn't be surprising that it did go to trial.
    3. What I've read: The 34 counts is not 34 separate instances rather they were coded in the bookkeeping wrongly 34 times. My observation: Again, I might agree with this, but this is not atypical of our justice system.
    4. What I've read: The judge picked in the case handled two other Trump cases, judges are supposed to be random but this has the appearance being handpicked. My question: I don't understand how this works so I don't really understand the problem here.
    5. What I've read: The misfiling of the records are only be criminal if they point to an underlying crime, but the judge instructed jury that they didn't need to know of the underlying crime and there was no other prior conviction. My observation: This just seems like it completely opens the door to a justified appeal regardless of the presidential immunity claim or not.
    6. What I've read: Cohen apparently lied under oath and was caught on it but this didn't disqualify some of the evidence. My observation: Again, that's our justice system. Is it wrong, sure, but does it happen, of course.


    To me it seems like if Democrats wanted to "get" Donald Trump then this was the wrong thing to go after him on. I could very well be wrong because I didn't think this would lead to a conviction but I don't see how this won't be successfully appealed. Which then the best thing to do from a political point of view is for Biden to pardon Trump because then he could keep the "convicted felon" moniker only with the "pardoned" prefix in front of in whereas if the convictions are successfully appealed then they would have to drop the moniker.

    By the way, now that we're in the business of convicting former presidents does that mean we get to finally convict Obama for drone bombing American citizens without a trial, or Bush for torturing innocent civilians, or Clinton for..., or Bush Sr for..., or Reagan for...?
    Last edited by dday9; Jun 5th, 2024 at 10:10 AM.
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  9. #129
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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    What raised this the level of a felony?


    The belief (on the part of prosecution) that the payment was made to influence the elecetion... the payment itself wasn't really the issue - they're contesting the intent of the payments - to keep someone from making allegations that could have derailed the campaign, which if had been made could have changed the outcome of the election. The contention is that by keeping Daniels quiet (by a payoff) .... blah... blah... yeah, I think it was kind of tenuous myself and quite honestly I'm a little surprised that it was pulled off...

    Regarding prosecutorial discretion - from what I understand, is that there wasd a first attempt and the DA at the time said "no,. there's not enough here" ... then later upon review, with additional evidence (I guess) the DA decided "no, there's something here after all, AND this rises to felony"...

    Immunity - doesn't apply. He wasn't POTUS at the time of the alleged crimes, but a candidate. -- scratch that... I had my years mixed up... this was from the 2020, not the 2016... bleh... yeah... it's a slippery slope and I'm not sure I like where it's going ... in any direction ... I think POTUS should have some immunity and discretion in what they do, but at the same time, there kind of does need to be a limit ... but where's hte line? And of course even "official acts" is a bit of a grey area...

    Counts - correct, it doesn't eqquate to number of instances, but a single crime can lead to multiple counts... so it may still not be incorrect bookkeeping 34 times... it could be just 10, but some of those 10 instances result in multiple counts... it's kind of weird. It's like shooting someone during a robbery. The armed robbery is one count, a second count would be the use of a weapon during the commission of a crime, third account would be attempted manslaughter (if they lived) or murder in the second (if the victim dies) ... so my guess with 34 counts, the actual number of instances of misapplied bookkeeping is probably small, but there's additional counts that double or triple the numbers real quick.


    To be honest it all felt extremely tenuous to me and I'm surprised it made it as far as it did, let alone guilty on all 34 counts... I was sure that it would be not guilty on most, and then like 3-5 guilty... but then I wasn't in court, so I don't know.

    some strange times we live in.


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  10. #130
    PowerPoster PlausiblyDamp's Avatar
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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    My question: What raised this the level of a felony? Is it just the number of charges?

    From what I have read about this the mis-filing of the payments are only a misdemeanour, however the money was spent to influence the election. The amount spent exceeded the limits on election spending - this was the underlying crime, a violation of the state election law.

    The falsifying of the records was an attempt to cover up the violation of state election law, so the falsified records were a crime with the intent to cover another crime; this intent to cover another crime is what raises it from a misdemeanour to a felony.

  11. #131
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    Quote Originally Posted by PlausiblyDamp View Post
    ...this was the underlying crime, a violation of the state election law.

    ... this intent to cover another crime is what raises it from a misdemeanour to a felony.
    See that's confusing because that implies that the intent was to influence the election despite there not being a prior conviction, but my understanding is that the judge instructed the jury that they didn't have to identify the underlying crime so there was no argument to falsify the campaign finance alleged crime.

    The whole thing is so convoluted. Edit - or I guess TG's choice of "tenuous" is probably better than convoluted here. Me cant gramur, good?
    Last edited by dday9; Jun 5th, 2024 at 11:28 AM.
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  12. #132
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    1) Under NY state law, the crime was the business records violation, which is a misdemeanor. There were 34 of them, but they were all misdemeanors. Also under NY law, a misdemeanor done with the intent of committing a second criminal act is what elevates them to a felony.

    5) Also under NY state law, the underlying crime doesn't have to have taken place, just has to have been intended. Further, the specific underlying crime does not need to be agreed on. There were three underlying crimes, but the jury didn't need to agree which one they felt Trump intended, so long as they all felt that it was at least one.

    Part of the smoke screen being put out, at this time, concerns that issue. The judge didn't just instruct the jury correctly, but in published pre-trial actions, the defense specifically agreed that that law did not require the jury to say what the underlying crime was. They asked the judge to rule that, in this specific case, the jury be required to be unanimous as to what the underlying crime was. The judge asked them if they agreed that doing so would not be in accordance of the law, and they said yes, at which point the judge said that he wasn't willing to re-write the law for this trial. Doing so would have given them solid grounds for appeal, as the judge would have explicitly gone against the law as agreed to by both defense and prosecution.

    Whether that law should be written that way is a different matter. It seems absurd to me, as it seems like the jury could pick darn near anything. I don't know that they had to choose from the three secondary crimes listed by the prosecution. Still, it doesn't matter what my opinion is. NY state law has it written that way, and the defense agreed that the judge was following the law, as written.

    4)Judge shopping is a thing. Whether it happened in this case, I have no idea. My understanding is that whoever makes judicial rules has come out with a rule (or a proposed rule) that will require random selection of judges. Still, when it comes to Trump, I wouldn't be surprised if every judge in that district hasn't had one of his cases before them at some point. He's famously litigious.

    6) Cohen was a convicted liar. If his testimony was all the evidence, then the case had no chance. Everything he said with roughly one exception, was backed up by multiple secondary sources. Did he pay her? Yes (financial records would show that). Did he do it out of the goodness of his heart? No (Hope Hicks thought he might not have one). Did the Trump organization pay him back? Yes (financial records). Did Trump know about, and approve the payments? Yes (financial records, Trump's own writing, Hope Hicks testimony). Did Trump know that the payments were hush money? That's the question. A guy who's name will be blocked by the censor, testified about the catch and kill operation to suppress negative press in the run up to the 2016 election. Various trails show that Trump was trying to delay the payment until after the election in hopes of not needing to pay it at all. But Cohen had to tie the evidence together.

    There's a good video that lays out all those points, including the NY statutes, the transcripts showing that the defense agreed that the judge was following the law, and the evidence...but it's always annoyed me when Dil only posts videos, so I won't unless asked.

    However, as to 2) Yeah, that. I don't think this would have gone to trial had it not been Trump. What I'm not so sure about is the politics of the thing. Everybody wants to look at too big a stage. Trump is a former president. It's national. In this case, it might not be. Trump has been causing legal troubles in NY since at least the 70s. Growing up in the area, I felt that he should have at least been heavily fined for his actions in the 80s, if not jailed. He wasn't, but he certainly left a whole lot of anger and financial damage in his wake from all the people he cheated. Now you have a DA, who is a local elected official, bringing a case against somebody who spent his life making enemies in that jurisdiction.

    Yeah, it wouldn't have happened if it weren't Trump, but was it 80s Trump, 90s Trump, Trump 2016, or Trump 2020, or some mix of all of them?
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  13. #133
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    I missed a point in there, but that post was so long nobody will read it anyways. Not much point in making it longer.
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  14. #134
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    I read it, although I did get a bit confused/lost/glossy eyed on paragraph 2 of point 5 (section A, sector 420, mark Zulu), then again that's probably why I did so poorly in school.
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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    This case is certainly easily misrepresented because of the strange " that law did not require the jury to say what the underlying crime was.". Also, the 34 felonies is misleading. That sounds like something that would put you in jail for life, but in fact, Trump probably wont get any jail time. And any fine levied will basically be meaningless. At least we got some good theater out of it, that's about all. lol

    whereas the GA case actually has some meat on it.
    I thought that too. I can't believe how that case has just disappeared because Willis had an affair. That's disappointing.

    Plus you got SCOTUS stalling the decision on immunity.

    It's amazing what can happen if your rich, powerful and have a friendly court.

  16. #136
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    I thought it the least interesting of the cases against him. Not a weak case, just...not likely to mean much to anybody.
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  17. #137
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    It's amazing what can happen if your rich, powerful and have a friendly court.
    Dave Smith (the guy I went to watch with the Cuomo debate on PBD's show) has a line that I really like that kind of speaks to that:
    At the highest levels of power, there is no such thing as law. All that matters is what: is there political will to do?
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  18. #138
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    Yeah, that's unfortunately true.

    Also, by power, he largely meant money.

    I went to college with a Dave Smith. All of his friends described him as a 'cranky old man' even when he was still a teenager. The names got to be common, though.

    This thread got me wondering about somebody I sort of worked for during a few summers in college. He was a developer who had bought a golf course. I worked on the grounds crew, and watched a decline that was tragic and very entertaining. When I started, the course had recently been bought (perhaps a year earlier). The owner had brought in a new management team who were pretty gung ho. They had big plans to improve the place, the money to do so, and were good to work for (the owner was...weird in so many ways, but I rarely saw him). By the second year, the wheels were getting loose, but everybody was still holding it together. The money was still there, the plans were still there, the enthusiasm was diminishing a bit, and reality was setting in. I didn't go back a third year, but a buddy of mine reported that the wheels were actively falling off. The manager wouldn't leave the office, plans were out the window, enthusiasm was in the toilet, and so on.

    After that, I hear the owner ended up going to prison. I went looking to see if I could find out why, but came up empty. I guess a moderately-rich developer with doubtful ethics, who got caught doing something illegal thirty years ago, just isn't enough of a story to leave much of a trace. I found his full name (Fredrick Fish), and that's all. Heck, he's not even the only Fred Fish who is a wealthy developer on the east coast.
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    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    That sounds fishy to say the least.

    What are the odds that you worked with a guy named Fish and your profession wound up involving fish?
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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    The amazing thing is that I never put the two together until you said that.

    He was an odd man. Tended to wear salmon pants. That's kind of fitting, when you think about it. I've wondered whether there was more truth or fiction surrounding him. He lived a garish lifestyle, which would get people talking in a small town. He also was only around very rarely, usually only appearing to show off something or other, though not to us peons.
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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    That's funny, I use to buy and play "Freddie Fish" PC games with my granddaughter. They were great little games for a ten year old and a grandfather with a couple of beer in him. lol

  22. #142

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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    That sounds fishy to say the least.

    What are the odds that you worked with a guy named Fish and your profession wound up involving fish?
    What about Lou Gehrig happening to die from a disease with the same name as him?
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  23. #143
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    What about Lou Gehrig happening to die from a disease with the same name as him?
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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    What about Lou Gehrig happening to die from a disease with the same name as him?
    I wonder if that was comforting or infuriating for him.

  25. #145
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    I'm sure he didn't bat an eye.
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  26. #146

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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I'm sure he didn't bat an eye.
    He struck out in the end though, at least it wasn't a suicide play.
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  27. #147
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    I think that everybody can agree that ending up with a disease named after you is not a good thing.

    It's kind of like having Mark Wahlberg play you in a movie: It means you had a REALLY bad day.
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  28. #148
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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    Just a note that this week we have the European elections. Allegedly patriotic parties will take command of the parliament while waiting for Trump's election but as we have been burned before we have to wait and see...Err not for Trump, he will be elected by a landslide after what they have done to him.
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  29. #149
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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    One good thing about living in a state where there's no doubt about the presidential election is I haven't seen or heard any political ads, no rallies. With millions being spent the swing states must be getting bombarded.

    Life is good.

  30. #150
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    Same. Of course I don't have cable nor do I listen to the radio (outside of LSU games) so that's probably a factor too.
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  31. #151

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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    One good thing about living in a state where there's no doubt about the presidential election is I haven't seen or heard any political ads, no rallies. With millions being spent the swing states must be getting bombarded.

    Life is good.
    I prefer a life with choice...albeit poor choices at that.
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  32. #152
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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    We get bombarded with political adds before the elections. I don't think we can avoid em as there are everywhere, tv radio youtube on side site adds.
    The problem is that the billionaires here that support the traitors push a lot of cash for it. They even manage to elect a hoax party just to cut votes from the patriotic ones.
    Of course people start to wake up as the government party went from 41% to 28% and in all of Europe, France, Italy even Germany . France was the epitome as they where forced to go to state elections after their president god demolished , I prefer pommeled, by left parties.
    US to come by in a couple of months. Woker's must be pommeled :P
    ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ
    πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν·

  33. #153
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    Maybe in the next war you'll get lucky and draw Italy in the first round, again.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  34. #154
    King of sapila
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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    Che cosa?
    ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ
    πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν·

  35. #155
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: Trump's "Stormy" next few weeks/months

    Tended to wear salmon pants.
    The mind boggles.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill

    Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd

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