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Thread: Javier Milei

  1. #1

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    Javier Milei

    Well I am super excited about Milei and I'm surprised he hasn't come up in the World Events yet. He ran and won the Argentinian presidency as an unapologetic Austrian economist, although after he got in office he claimed to be more Chicagoan than Austrian (which is still OK in my book).

    What I find absolutely hilarious is that the corporate media try to paint him as a "right-wing" figure when he is unabashedly a libertarian. Their pea-sized brains cannot comprehend anything other than left vs right.

    Some of Milei's accomplishments:
    1. He cut the number of ministries in half from 18 to 9
    2. He did not renew thousands of federal employees contracts
    3. He declared an economic emergency and introduced measures to increase privatization
    4. He submitted the first balanced budget in over 12 years
    5. He posted the first surplus in over 13 years


    I think the most stark accomplishments are the last two. It just goes to show that most governments have a spending problem and not a collections problem.
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    Re: Javier Milei

    I don't know anything about Milei. But without context all these accomplishments may be good or bad. If all these cuts were pure waste then it's good. If the impoverished are now starving to death, the schools are underfunded or there's nothing being spent on infrastructure then that's bad.

  3. #3

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    Re: Javier Milei

    I will say that I had no idea what was going on in Argentina until Javier Melei's rise (around August of 2023) and that was in part because a lot of libertarian podcasts I listen to started talking about him. None of the left wing podcasts I listen to have really talked about him except that they were all deeply concerned of a "Trump 2.0" in South America. I stopped listening to right-wing podcasts because of how sycophantic they've become of Trump, so I have no idea what they have to say (if anything).

    But just to provide you with some perspective, Argentina has been experiencing 100%+ inflation for I want to say the past year. I don't like how most media outlets talk about inflation because in reality they're talking about the effects of inflation whereas Mises explains inflation as "...when a government increases the quantity of paper money, the result is that the purchasing power of the monetary unit begins to drop, and so prices rise". But to give you an idea, for the past year (and really before that) Argentinians would go to the supermarket and prices would be one cost and then literally go the following week and they'd cost multiple times what they were the week before. There is no economic security in that sense. Argentina isn't Weimar Republic burning money or killing street dogs to eat like in Venezuela because of how badly their peso has been devalued, but it is bad to say the least.

    The latest news on Melei is that he plans to introduce law that will jail bankers who devalue the currency to cover deficits which would effectively stop the monetary authority's printing of more pesos, which is like a libertarian's wet dream, but its not clear that it will go through. His ultimate goal is to completely dollarize the economy and I think this is just a step to get to that point.
    Last edited by dday9; Feb 26th, 2024 at 02:23 PM.
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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Javier Milei

    I have been following Argentina for some time now. They've been in a mess for a long time. Will Milei be able to turn it around? That remains to be seen.

    My basic take on the Argentinian problem, which dates back decades, is that there was a populist/leftist president who did a lot for the poor and largely devastated the economy. Good for getting elected, bad for long term prospects. They ended up defaulting on the massive debt load some time back, which ended up in court, as the creditors wanted to be paid ahead of other groups, and so on. For a time, they got a center-right, economically responsible, president. He tried to impose some reforms that would get the long-term economy into better shape. That caused short-term pain, so he got ousted by (essentially) the ex-president, Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner, who was term-limited and had to serve as the vice president. Her husband had been president before her. So, basically, the technocrat got ousted by the same populist/leftist who had a big hand in getting Argentina into the economic mess it is in.

    Now, Javier Milei, who has no experience and nothing more than a big mouth, has been elected with big plans. The problem is, Argentina has shown that it is only willing to reform if there is no price to pay. Sure, the Libertarians think he's their man, as he certainly said the right things. He's turned pragmatic once in office, but whether his supposed surplus is real is very doubtful. Whether his cuts and changes will right the ship, or lead to his rapid political demise, is very much in question. He's been effective at gaffes and making powerful enemies. His ideas for economic reform do appear promising, but then again, so did those of the last guy, and all it did was ensure he'd lose the next election.

    When it comes to Milei, I'd say: Good luck...you're gonna need it.
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    Re: Javier Milei

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    He's turned pragmatic once in office...
    I would completely agree with this, but what makes me excited is that he was elected by espousing Austrian economic policies. So if nothing else, the radical message he was saying to get elected is what the voters wanted. Compare that to just about any US election when any candidate who runs an unabashed libertarian campaign (I'm thinking more of Harry Browne as opposed to a Gary Johnson) and they get crushed.
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    Re: Javier Milei

    I wouldn't assume they voted for him because they want Austrian economic policies. When things are as bad as the situation in Argentina, the new guy who is claiming to know how to fix it will probably get the votes.

    I saw an article stating the poverty rate was @ 57%, a rise from last year. Let's hope he can turn that trend around.

  7. #7
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Javier Milei

    Yeah, I agree with wes. The Argentine economy has been in horrible shape for a long time, largely thanks to mismanagement from the top. I'm not sure that voters necessarily cared, or believed, that Milei had answers to the problems. They may well have been voting for, "anybody else".

    Technically, the US often does that, as well. Incumbents don't win in recessions, and if they are term limited, then their party doesn't win in recessions. It's just that the US only has two viable parties, so we just ricochet back and forth between the two. Argentina has more options...or no options, depending on how you look at it. There's the one party that created the mess and capitalizes on it, and then there's a ferment of everything else, which occasionally spits out a viable candidate. To date, those viable candidates have tried and failed. We'll only know whether Milei is different after the next election. Righting the ship will cause pain. That will be used against him in the next election. If he gets swept out of office, then he's more of the same. If he gets re-elected, then he's done something different.
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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Javier Milei

    Basically, it's not that there aren't ideas for fixing the Argentinian economy, and it's not that the ideas don't work, it's that they are suicidal for politicians.
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    Re: Javier Milei

    There are people that want to be free and want others to be free too, and there are other people that want to control everyone else (or agree on being controlled and being OK with that).

    Those are the two sides, the real two sides now. You can figure where Milei is on those two sides.

    You can also figure where Elon Musk and Trump are (and many other of course).

    And, on the other side, the globalists who want to control everybody through the state, the media and impose their agenda (tip: its color es green).


    Milei said: I did not get in here to be leading lambs, I got in here to wake up lions.

    Name:  emoji3.png
Views: 58
Size:  2.3 KB Long live freedom damn it!

    (I'm from Argentina)
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Shaggy Hiker; Feb 29th, 2024 at 08:32 AM. Reason: But not here.

  10. #10
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    Re: Javier Milei

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    The other day Milei removed the INADI, that was an institute for discrimination and xenophobia. Now people are allowed to say n----- or f----- legally Name:  emoji2.png
Views: 107
Size:  3.1 KB

    Milei said: I did not get in here to be leading lambs, I got in here to wake up lions.

    Name:  emoji3.png
Views: 58
Size:  2.3 KB Long live freedom damn it!

    (I'm from Argentina)
    I'm surprised various ways to write the "F" word aren't added to the filters. The "N" word is not even blocked in "Preview Post".

  11. #11
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    Re: Javier Milei

    The filters as we saw in the past can be either skipped or be real dump or block legit words.
    Having said that I'm against filtering. Mods should take action if they think the content is offensive and having said that I'm against mods taking action, seen the action been taken in the past. OK except maybe Niya but anyhow nowadays they (yes they) have turned him to a mindless puppet, all goody goody and polite...May i take your coat sir? May I take your coat sir?
    ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ
    πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν·

  12. #12
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Javier Milei

    There are plenty of cesspools. You may go swim in them if you'd like. That's entirely up to you. This place will not be one, at least not for now.

    Freedom is a fiction that people like to fool themselves with. Nobody is truly free. We are all constrained so long as we are the least bit considerate of others. If we are not the least bit considerate of others, then free is a word we can call ourselves, though others will use different words for us. No person wants to live that way.

    Or, as the song said: Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.

    EDIT: Also, you have responsibilities in every role you play in life. You have responsibilities as a member here, one of which is to not circumvent the profanity filter.
    Last edited by Shaggy Hiker; Feb 29th, 2024 at 08:41 AM.
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  13. #13
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    Re: Javier Milei

    Was this an all heart personal attack or just recitation of the terms and conditions? Hopefully the first
    Last edited by sapator; Feb 29th, 2024 at 09:54 AM.
    ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ
    πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν·

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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Javier Milei

    After thinking about it for a bit, I have no idea what you meant by the first part, but as to the terms and conditions, we do have a responsibility to behave in accordance to the terms and conditions of the site while we are on the site.
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    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
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    Re: Javier Milei

    To become a member don't you have to agree to the forum rules?
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  16. #16
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    Re: Javier Milei

    Joining any group at all will saddle a person with responsibilities. This includes groups you don't intentionally join, such as family, friends, and so on. It also includes every group that is optional, such as work, sports, religions, and websites. Some people ignore the constraints that joining a group puts on your life. Some would impose the same constraints anyways, in which case joining the group doesn't change anything for them. Other times, the constraints have been there for so long people have forgotten they are there, especially if they are not introspective enough, or aware enough, to realize that they are constrained.

    The only difference here is that the rules are more or less written.
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  17. #17
    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
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    Re: Javier Milei

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Joining any group at all will saddle a person with responsibilities. This includes groups you don't intentionally join, such as family, friends, and so on. It also includes every group that is optional, such as work, sports, religions, and websites. Some people ignore the constraints that joining a group puts on your life. Some would impose the same constraints anyways, in which case joining the group doesn't change anything for them. Other times, the constraints have been there for so long people have forgotten they are there, especially if they are not introspective enough, or aware enough, to realize that they are constrained.

    The only difference here is that the rules are more or less written.
    Never really thought of it that way but very true. They way we, or most of us, agree to act in group setting is a good example. There are a myriad of accepted "rules" we all act by.
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

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    Re: Javier Milei

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    After thinking about it for a bit, I have no idea what you meant by the first part, but as to the terms and conditions, we do have a responsibility to behave in accordance to the terms and conditions of the site while we are on the site.
    I was joking but let's level it up a bit.
    What is profanity to you might not be profanity to me. There are a couple of wavy lines there. In the past it involved some certain presidents, fakevid, gayness, WOKE, NWO (that not so much as most of them here don't have a clue), "facist" songs etc. So the "rules" cannot cover all of that. Personally I don't go close to most of them. And some I cannot be banned (fakevid for example) by expressing my opinion because some get annoyed by the truth.Some other I might be banned because some get annoyed by the truth, we get that we don't write em God will judge us all.
    So the "rules" are not exactly apply, mods have to interpret them and act accordingly. Sometimes mistakes are made so a good rule would be if banned unpurposed then ban the mod that ban you.
    Having said that...What have you done to pure NIYA? May I take you coat sir? May I take your coat sir? So that would be a psychological personal ban attach and you all should be ashamed (I wonder what will happen if I misspell it ... )ASShamed....Meh, fix the rules robot I made a booboo!
    ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ
    πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν·

  19. #19
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Javier Milei

    I thought reply with quote was fixed. Apparently, it is not entirely fixed. I see the buttons are also all gone, now. Hope people remember the proper tags.

    What is profane to me may not be profane to you
    I made that exact point a while back. I don't remember the exact response, but it was along the lines of, "If you want to figure out behavior by getting banned, just say the word." Also, yes, I have been banned for making a joke that an administrator at the time thought was too blue. I've been less quick on the ban, myself, as I tend to just delete things that get too close to the (fuzzy) line.

    As for Niya, apparently he decided that he wanted to talk about code here, and talk about his views somewhere more accepting of them. That's appropriate. He's not the only one. There were highly active and helpful members who left the site because of views they didn't agree with. There is one that I can think of who doesn't post in CC because it makes him too angry (I have no idea what his views are). You may also remember (I'm not sure if you've been around long enough) a character who asked to be banned because CC was distracting him too much from his studies. Frankly, this place would be a whole lot less interesting without CC, but we've lost some good contributors because of CC. For a time, that included Niya. For a time, that included me.

    As a general rule, if you don't know how to act in public, you either figure it out, or you end up not in public. That's how life works, without exception. That's how the forum works, too. People are used to whatever circle they live in, but there's a wider world out there. What is acceptable in one place will get you thrown out of another. Stay only where you are comfortable, but don't insist that wherever you are must be like wherever you've been.
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  20. #20
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    Re: Javier Milei

    For better or for worse cc is here . I don't remember the person that asked to be banned , I do remember someone got a sudden urge to get destructive and leave the forums for some vb vs vb.net reason? But I can't recall more.
    Personally, I have been banned in other forums but I know what would be coming. I haven't seen someone here for a long time to need a good ban. Last one was Niya and now we have the brainwashed version of Niya.
    Even crazy Moti is just futurbating not going bananas. And let's face it, it's a coding forum. You want to see ban? Go to a political forum or a music forum, although the rules there are bend waayyy more.
    I disagree on forum vs public it's a different thing since the forum is not the public. We don't have crazy housewives , musicians, actor, politicians, junkies (well code junkies) etc. It's not a Micrography of modern society here. Things are relatively calm here given the circumstances (right Niya, right? ... May I take your coat sir etc...)
    ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ
    πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν·

  21. #21
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    Re: Javier Milei

    Also, if I want, I have the advantage to say things that will make you go root beer in Greek and no usage of translation will make a difference but I play fair.
    ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ
    πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν·

  22. #22
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    Re: Javier Milei

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    and now we have the brainwashed version of Niya.
    If he came from the dead he is a zombie

  23. #23
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    Re: Javier Milei

    Niybie
    ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ
    πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν·

  24. #24
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Javier Milei

    Zombiya
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    Re: Javier Milei

    I didn't know how bad things were in Argentina till dday started this thread and I started doing a little research. Milei is off to rough start and cutting funding to soup kitchens isn't helping his popularity https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/...-spending-cuts

    Was there a lot of misused funds meant for these social life lines? That wouldn't be surprising. The problem is weather there was or wasn't doesn't change the fact there are starving people. The numbers seem to be growing.

    It struck me that every South American country I could think of has a high rate of poverty. While all of the European and North American countries have a much higher standard of living. I wonder what caused such a contrast. Could it be that South American is still recovering from being exploited by Europe and North America? Is it culture?

  26. #26
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    Re: Javier Milei

    Chile was going great, and might again, though it's had a patch of turmoil.

    I don't know if this is the case, but it seems to me that when you have massive economic inequality in a country, especially if those on the low end are quite low, and you couple that with a more fluid politics than the rigid two-party system in the US, then you have a situation where one party can win by offering the large number of poor voters some short-term benefit. In the US, the impact of slavery on rich and poor alike has echoed throughout our history to such an extent that it seems more likely to explain our two parties than poverty does. It probably also helps that our poor tend to be not quite as poor, widely dispersed, and often have other issues that make them even more voiceless. In democratic systems where that is not the case, a politician can get a large number of votes simply by offering the poor something, even if it sacrifices the long-term prosperity of the country. Heck, considering how bughouse economics is, they could find economists who would say it was a good thing, too.

    That's why I think Milei will fail, as well: Righting the ship will cause pain for enough people that somebody else will come along and say, "!That", and that will be enough to win, even if his economic policies would ultimately leave everybody better off.
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