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Thread: Israel?

  1. #241
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Israel?

    By the people, and yes, it IS messy. It's very messy.

    I knew it was the lettuce that outlasted Liz Truss, but when I think of Boris and his hair....lettuce does kind of come to mind. If he's a turnip, then he'd be the root (vegetable) of some evil.
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  2. #242
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    Re: Israel?

    So if one of the coalition walks away there's has to be a new election
    It's not so much that there has to be an election but rather, if the leading coalition loses it's majority, they can't pass anything so everything just shuts down. It's kind of like what you've got in congress right now but more so. At that point they typically just hold a new election and try and form new coalitions. I think (though I'm not sure) that the governing body has mechanisms to force a new election if a majority supports it which would mean Netanyahu can't just dig his heels in.

    I like PR but this is one of it's weaknesses. It functions wholly on compromise so is susceptible to gridlock if the governing body is so polarised that compromise become impossible. It also tends to over power extreme and single issue parties because they get to play king maker.

    I think of Boris and his hair....lettuce does kind of come to mind
    I think I'm channelling his face when I suggested turnip. It's kind of round, pale and a little bit lumpy. I could call him a swede but he's actually an American (believe it or not).
    Last edited by FunkyDexter; Apr 11th, 2024 at 01:01 PM.
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  3. #243
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    Re: Israel?

    He screwed up government, so it doesn't surprise me.

    Our leading coalition in the house, has a majority, but also hates one another, and therefore they STILL can't pass anything.
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  4. #244
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    Re: Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    He screwed up government, so it doesn't surprise me.

    Our leading coalition in the house, has a majority, but also hates one another, and therefore they STILL can't pass anything.
    To compound that, one side of the hate can't even get along in their own camp. Everyday it seems the speaker is facing being voted out. One person can start the process.

    And let's pile on some more...the former president has outsized influence on Republicans currently in office directing many of their votes. Past presidents traditionally kept a low profile. Trump broke the mould. He recently torpedoed the immigration bill that leaned heavily conservative. He didn't want to give the democrats a win, the hell with the American people, it is a one man show.

    The republican speaker of the house is meeting with Trump in Florida today to get his marching orders...the tail wagging the dog.
    Last edited by TysonLPrice; Apr 12th, 2024 at 04:53 AM.
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  5. #245
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    Re: Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    To compound that, one side of the hate can't even get along in their own camp.
    That's actually what I meant, but after re-reading what I posted, one might think I meant that the two parties hate each other. I don't mean that. They are opponents, but the real fighting is happening within the majority party. That's often the case, it's just a bit more extreme, at the moment.
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  6. #246
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    Re: Israel?

    They are opponents, but the real fighting is happening within the majority party
    I think that's actually pretty common, we save our true vitriol for our siblings. In the UK I tend to associate this with the left (though the right is showing it more at the moment). Labour supporters don't like Tories but say "New Labour" to a Corbyn supporter and they turn apoplectic.

    I've got to say, MTG seems to be putting on quite a show lately.
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  7. #247
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    Re: Israel?

    I've got to say, MTG seems to be putting on quite a show lately.
    She always does. A few months ago her sound bite was, impeach Biden. With her the sky is always falling.

  8. #248
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    Re: Israel?

    Perhaps she could just go with "Impeach ___________"
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  9. #249
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    Re: Israel?

    Frankly, as a person who enjoys the politics, I hope she does bring forwards that motion to vacate. It would provide for some delightful theatre. I have no idea which way things would go, though I'm leaning towards Johnson surviving the vote because he seems more pragmatic and reliable that McCarthy. The Democrats might support him in exchange for something like a vote on Ukraine funding (which a lot of Republicans would also support), and the Republicans might support him simply because they want to avoid another embarrassing period of flailing disunity.
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  10. #250
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    Re: Israel?

    So far she doesn't seem to have much backing for vacating Johnson. With Johnson there has been some progress but there is still no Ukraine aid and he just went and met with Trump to get his marching orders. So I don't have much hope for anything meaningful being passed by congress.

  11. #251
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    Re: Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    So far she doesn't seem to have much backing for vacating Johnson. With Johnson there has been some progress but there is still no Ukraine aid and he just went and met with Trump to get his marching orders. So I don't have much hope for anything meaningful being passed by congress.
    Johnson went down to Florida and kissed Trump's "ring". He is going to bring up some meaningless immigration bill and I think in return MTG will be told to heal. I'll bet two reptation points she suddenly shuts up
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  12. #252
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    Re: Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    Johnson went down to Florida and kissed Trump's "ring". He is going to bring up some meaningless immigration bill and I think in return MTG will be told to heal. I'll bet two reptation points she suddenly shuts up
    I don't think she could shut up even if her jaw was wired shut. She'll just be yelling about something else.

    Don't see why Trump would want any type of immigration bill.

  13. #253
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    Re: Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    I don't think she could shut up even if her jaw was wired shut. She'll just be yelling about something else.

    Don't see why Trump would want any type of immigration bill.
    Are you kidding...he has pushed a few from separating children, forcing them to stay in Mexico, and all the other stunts the courts shot down.

    At any rate Trump and Johnson came out of their meeting saying "Republicans aim to stop noncitizen voting in federal elections." And plan on new laws for that. Forget that it is already illegal.
    Last edited by TysonLPrice; Apr 13th, 2024 at 03:39 AM.
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  14. #254
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    Re: Israel?

    Trump doesn't want an immigration bill because he doesn't want any progress on immigration. That's his major position. If it got better in any way, or has the potential to get better, then he's lost his greatest weapon. He already got the Republicans to vote against the compromise bill they had agreed to.
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  15. #255
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    Re: Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    I don't think she could shut up even if her jaw was wired shut. She'll just be yelling about something else.

    Don't see why Trump would want any type of immigration bill.
    It wasn't immigration it was voting integrity, my mistake. They came out smiling about working on that.
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  16. #256
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    Re: Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    I don't think she could shut up even if her jaw was wired shut. She'll just be yelling about something else.

    Don't see why Trump would want any type of immigration bill.
    True but....

    Trump extended his vote of confidence in Johnson during a press conference on Friday, saying, “I think he’s doing a very good job. He’s doing about as good as you’re going to do. And I’m sure that Marjorie understands that.”
    That is about a subtle as that carnival barker gets...

    https://www.salon.com/2024/04/14/mik...taylor-greene/

    House Speaker Mike Johnson (R-LA) brags that Donald Trump has him covered, in the midst of Marjorie Taylor Greene’s threats to boot him from office.

    In a recent Fox News "Sunday Morning Futures" interview with anchor Maria Bartiromo, Johnson claims that he spent hours with the former president on Friday. He elaborated on their long-standing relationship, wherein they speak multiple times a day, saying, “He’s 100 percent with me!”
    https://www.salon.com/2024/04/14/mik...taylor-greene/

    Someone owns me some rep points...
    Last edited by TysonLPrice; Apr 14th, 2024 at 02:13 PM.
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  17. #257

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    Re: Israel?

    So now Israel is fighting Iran.
    US told that they would help Israel.
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  18. #258
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    Re: Israel?

    No, Biden said that we'd help defend Israel, but also said that we would not help attack Iran. I would say that's pretty reasonable from a couple different perspectives, both cynical and otherwise, so that's probably about right.

    I saw an anti-Gaza War protest on a bridge over the interstate on my way to work this morning. Some day I may have to take a drive to look at some of the bridges. There is only one used for protests, and there has to be a reason for that. I never drive over those bridges, so I don't know what the reason is. I was thinking that it might be low traffic, but nothing is low traffic during the morning commute. The other possibility is that it's the only bridge with good sidewalks. It's not the newest bridge, though, so that would surprise me.
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  19. #259

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    Re: Israel?

    I wrote that they would help Israel, I did not write the measures they will take so I guess the "No" in the post is just an usual spontaneous anti sap reaction.
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  20. #260
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    Re: Israel?

    No.


    (but more seriously, they DID help Israel in the defense. If we're talking about what will happen in the future, I'm pretty sure that Biden won't help Israel with some kind of vengeance strike, and I kind of figured that's what you were talking about, largely because I'd be a bit surprised if there isn't one.)
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  21. #261

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    Re: Israel?

    Double Yes on your No and another No.
    Biden will do as told. Good puppet.
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  22. #262
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    Re: Israel?

    No, again. Biden is walking a difficult path. Parts of his base support Israel in whatever they do, while parts oppose Israel. He also doesn't get along with Netanyahu very well. He gains nothing with a blanket support of Israel, and could lose plenty.
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  23. #263

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    Re: Israel?

    No on you No with a Yes.
    When we are talking Biden do we talk about Biden or the deep state?
    If we are talking about Biden then you should not worry he will be fine.
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    Re: Israel?

    When we are talking Biden do we talk about Biden or the deep state?
    You and SH have used the word "Biden" over and over. That should be a clue.

  25. #265
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    Re: Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    No on you No with a Yes.
    When we are talking Biden do we talk about Biden or the deep state?
    If we are talking about Biden then you should not worry he will be fine.
    As long as we are bringing up the "deep state" we should mention leprechauns were spotted stuffing ballots again.
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  26. #266

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    Re: Israel?

    I don't think SH needs lawyers, he is a big boy he can take care of himself.
    Associating deep state with leprechauns , right. So there is no deep state and Biden is acting at his own will. Good to know. At least you won't have to worry after November .
    We first have Europe to get a "taste" of things that are going to happen and hopefully it's going to go well...
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  27. #267
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    Re: Israel?

    I AM the deep state, or at least a part of it. We are powerful the way a glacier is powerful: Slow, but effective if you wait long enough.
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  28. #268

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    Re: Israel?

    ...
    Er...
    NO!
    You're too nice for the job
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  29. #269
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    Re: Israel?

    So there is no deep state and Biden is acting at his own will
    You finally get it...
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  30. #270
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    Re: Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    ...
    Er...
    NO!
    You're too nice for the job
    That's just what we WANT you to think....
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  31. #271

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    Re: Israel?

    I expected that.
    I see Shaggy running behind the DS fighters shouting BUT! BUT ! SIR ! I'm Bad! I'm Bad!Pleeeasse!!! See my rage!!!! Arrrrr!!!!
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  32. #272

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    Re: Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    You finally get it...
    Yep. Lol. Ignorance is bliss kinda way tho.
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  33. #273
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    Re: Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    I expected that.
    I see Shaggy running behind the DS fighters shouting BUT! BUT ! SIR ! I'm Bad! I'm Bad!Pleeeasse!!! See my rage!!!! Arrrrr!!!!
    That's funny for an odd reason. I've just spent a couple days dealing with an issue where "DS" has a very specific meaning (downstream, is probably where it came from, but it's much more complicated than that, and the origin is from the dawn of computing...and fish...fish + computers). That DS jumped out of your post, and I barely was able to read the rest of it.

    I have no idea what DS means to you.
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  34. #274

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    Re: Israel?

    Demon...Slayer?
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  35. #275
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    Re: Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    Yep. Lol. Ignorance is bliss kinda way tho.
    I'm glad you have learned to accept that, best wishes.

    An account of Socrates gave us the famous saying, "I know that I know nothing." Being aware that we know nothing is the potential start of us knowing something. 'The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.
    Last edited by TysonLPrice; Apr 17th, 2024 at 06:42 PM.
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  36. #276
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    Re: Israel?

    Why are we so eager to send aid to Israel while they continue to kill innocents? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/i...ans-rcna148662

    I realize we can't control what Israel does but we don't have to be an accomplice.

  37. #277
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    Re: Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    Why are we so eager to send aid to Israel while they continue to kill innocents? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/i...ans-rcna148662

    I realize we can't control what Israel does but we don't have to be an accomplice.
    The US has supported Israel from, literally, day one and hasn't stopped since:

    The United States was the first country to recognize Israel as an independent state on May 14, 1948, when President Harry Truman issued a statement of recognition following Israel's proclamation of independence on the same date.
    They didn't develop their nuclear weapons on their own. Who gave them the Iron Dome? So we have always been an accomplice.

    The why, as always, goes to politics. But I'm not
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  38. #278
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    Re: Israel?

    Why are we so eager to send aid to Israel while they continue to kill innocents?
    Until recently I'd have said something along the lines of "They're surrounded by enemies who want to see them wiped out - withdrawing support would mean being complicit in that and would be just as bad as being complicit in what they're doing in Gaza, just on a MUCH bigger scale".

    Until recently I'd have said that but the Saudi and Jordanian actions in response to Iran's recent missile attack indicate that that's no longer true. Jordan and Saudi actually deployed in defence of Israel which was something I wouldn't have expected to see (at most I'd have expected them to do nothing) so it looks like the diplomatic situation has moved on dramatically and Israel as a nation no longer faces an existential threat it used to. It's only Iran and its proxys that seem to still be threatening them and they can't do much more than terrorist attacks which, not withstanding, don't rise to the same level of destruction as a conventional war. I certainly hope that's true.

    So I guess the answer to your question (and it's not a very satisfying one) is inertia. We're backing them because we've always backed them. I'm still not sure I'd want to see that backing simply removed but I do think it should be leveraged much more robustly to try and curb Netanyahu's worst intentions. Particularly the threatened attack on Rafah which looks to have all the hallmark of a humanitarian catastrophe. And an entirely avoidable one at that.
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  39. #279
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    Re: Israel?

    I'd say there is quite a bit of pressure being applied...now, though I wouldn't say that it was there a few months back. The pressure is not being made public, which is the best way for it to be used.

    Israel has messed this up big time. They squandered a whole lot of goodwill, and the IDF really messed up the war. They have failed to achieve their stated objectives while losing a whole lot of backing. What they are doing now may be the right thing, ultimately. They rushed in following the October 7th attack. That was probably because they failed to prevent the attack and needed to redeem themselves, but they needed to think it through. Now, perhaps they are thinking it through. Time will tell. Flattening cities to kill a handful of underground people, thereby creating far more resentment than they eliminate...well, THAT wasn't working.

    They need to be thinking about what the step is after the fighting ends. They didn't do that initially. Maybe they aren't doing that now, but then again, maybe they are.
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    Re: Israel?

    So I guess the answer to your question (and it's not a very satisfying one) is inertia. We're backing them because we've always backed them. I'm still not sure I'd want to see that backing simply removed but I do think it should be leveraged much more robustly to try and curb Netanyahu's worst intentions. Particularly the threatened attack on Rafah which looks to have all the hallmark of a humanitarian catastrophe. And an entirely avoidable one at that.
    Giving aid to Israel to defend itself has always seemed reasonable. But this isn't about defense. They may claim this action is to help defend Israel in the future but I don't think the US/UK see Israel's actions achieving those goals.

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