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Thread: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

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    Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    Let the countdown begin. There is a group of republican congressmen set on shutting down the government unless they get the things they want. Some things that just are not going to happen, for example, starting impeachment proceeding against Biden.. To top that off they wants cuts to the agreements they made last spring. This scenario happens almost every year but I think this time is different. I do not think there will be a CR unless things get really desperate or enough republicans join with democrats to pass a budget or at least a CR.

    The Senate appropriations committee advanced all 12 spending bills for fiscal year 2024 with bipartisan support. That is democrats and republicans working together.
    Last edited by TysonLPrice; Sep 11th, 2023 at 05:16 AM.
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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    Yeah... been through a couple of these before ... luckily for me, I won't be affected. Still something of a poop show though.

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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    For Greece, if an important bill do not pass from the parliament, it usually signals elections.
    Of course the leading party dogs are (I don't know the word), glued together to pass a bill in fear of going to elections and losing their salary.
    Is it the same in US?
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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    For Greece, if an important bill do not pass from the parliament, it usually signals elections.
    Of course the leading party dogs are (I don't know the word), glued together to pass a bill in fear of going to elections and losing their salary.
    Is it the same in US?
    I'd say the majority of politicians in the Federal government, both parties, are more concerned with staying in power than governing. Taking it a step further they would rather vote against a party with a good idea rather then let them have a win. I remember shortly after Obama won the republican leader of the Senate vowed to do everything he could to make him a one term president. That is how polarized the parties are and they don't give a damn who the American public voted for.

    I think the lower local level politicians try and govern. Once you get to the State level and above it seems to be party driven.
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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    We don't have this situation. Subject to being able to actually borrow, there's no limit to how much a UK government can borrow. The chancellor doesn't need any approval.... The only 'restraint' is the payment of the debt interest which for 2023 is expected to be £110 billion (10.4 per cent of total government revenue). The total debt as of June 2023 is £2.59 trillion. In context, the UK Health budget for 2023 is £160.4 billion.
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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    Yeah... been through a couple of these before ... luckily for me, I won't be affected. Still something of a poop show though.

    -tg
    My same thought. It will be a big nothing burger just like all the others.

    I'm not even surprised we're here again. With the amount of money the government borrowed, interest alone is starting to balloon out of control.

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    That is democrats and republicans working together.
    Great, the same two parties that got us here in the first place. You know what we need more of? Bipartisan borrowing. It only sounds nice because it is alliterative.
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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    That is democrats and republicans working together.
    Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, MASS HYSTERIA!!

    I'm inclined to agree on the Nothing Burger hypothesis. The folks who are really going to push for a shutdown are the Freedom Caucus and it feels like they've got less clout than they did last year.
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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, MASS HYSTERIA!!

    I'm inclined to agree on the Nothing Burger hypothesis. The folks who are really going to push for a shutdown are the Freedom Caucus and it feels like they've got less clout than they did last year.
    The thing they do have is any single member can challenge to call a motion to vacate. He made quite a few concessions to get his speakership.
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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    But what other tools do they have to use, whether that is actually in representing their constituents or furthering the agendas of corporate puppet masters?

    The rise of the shutdown threat is a symptom of how polarized Congress has become. As both parties have become more partisan, Democrats and Republicans have found it difficult to agree on pretty much anything, including spending bills. In part, thatís because spending bills have increasingly been used as vehicles for priorities lawmakers were unable to pass earlier in the year. Additionally, since these are routine, must-pass measures, they offer a prime opportunity for lawmakers to use what leverage they have to send a political message to their base. Although Republicans were blamed for a shutdown in 2013, when they refused to pass spending bills in a bid to defund the Affordable Care Act, it still played well with many of their supporters, underscoring how these deadlines could be an opportunity to energize GOP voters.

    That has left lawmakers eager to use spending bills ó and shutdowns ó to score political points and show their partyís voters that they are fighting for their priorities. In past years, Republicans have used the negotiations on spending bills to demand funding for a border wall, while Democrats have done the same with immigration policies.
    https://www.vox.com/22810544/congres...shutdown-cycle


    It is a manifestation of a system that has become dominated by ideologues from the extreme left and extreme right. I'm not even convinced most of it is part of a dumbshow to convince people there are two parties. Ever since Democrats ran to support the election of Ronald Reagan the "two parties" have really been one pushing a globalist agenda founded on excessive consumption.

    They also like to raise birdies on a stick ("look at the birdie"), i.e. "social issues" to keep people divided and clueless about the uniparty takeover.

    I'm not convinced things are that different in Canada or most of Europe either, dating from the same origins around 1980. Reagan, Thatcher, Clinton, Blair: all of a feather dragging things down together.

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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    The thing they do have is any single member can challenge to call a motion to vacate. He made quite a few concessions to get his speakership.
    Yeah, I know. But they had that last year too and ultimately didn't follow through on it.

    If they do follow through on it, it'll result in a new vote for speaker which McCarthy will win because nobody else wants the job. There'll be an inconsequential crisis within the GOP (which will be epic viewing) but the country will roll on and the more reasonable members of the GOP know it. They've seen that the extreme members are a paper tiger and have increasingly begun to just ignore them.

    But what other tools do they have to use
    They could try doing it the old fashioned way and winning an election. Of course, the last time they did that they borrowed at historic levels. This is nothing to do with debt levels and everything to do with politics because...
    It is a manifestation of a system that has become dominated by ideologues from the extreme left and extreme right.
    Yeah, that. 100% that. Some stuff we vehemently agree on.
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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    In Greece the 3 main parties that "pretend" to argue are all sold out and push the same agenda. They fight and then they vote the same. P.E. there will be a legislation about couple of the same sex get married. Oh joy! Anyhow the party that bring this is the sold out government that pretend to be a left party. What will happen is both the 2 other parties that pretend to be socialists will vote for it thus it will pass and some party dogs from the left party will "pretend" to resist this and will not vote (with the license to do so from the government ) , keep appearances as we say. I'm not sure what the other 4 parties will do. 1, the patriotic party will not vote for it 100% sure but the other 4...There is 2 of them that claim to be patriotic but they have voted everything the sold out government brings , one that is, whatever, and the communist party.
    Oh that is for Shaggy to see how many parties we have in the parliament.

    Also if US both left and right are pushing the same agenda (that I somewhat tend to agree with maybe an exception on Trump as he fled all the wars) , why would there be confrontation on getting one into jail or not voting for the other. First why would anyone attack Trump? He is somewhere extremist but the agenda will be carried on anyhow. Non?
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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    It will be a big nothing burger just like all the others.
    It is more to me than that. It is indicative of the fragility of our democracy. In a matter of months the US has almost defaulted on its debt and now the government is about to shut down. There are so many issues that need addressed by both parties and what are we going to do? Shut down the government and try and impeach the president. I don't see how anyone can think that is a "big nothing burger".
    Last edited by TysonLPrice; Sep 12th, 2023 at 06:15 AM.
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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    It is more to me than that. It is indicative of the fragility of our democracy.
    Democracy: The God That Failed by Hans-Hermann Hoppe is a good read. Don't misinterpret my recommendation, I'm not Hoppe-ian, but he always provides thought provoking books.

    Besides we don't live in a democracy, we never have, we live in a democratic republic. And there is nothing fragile about what is happening, it is simply the inevitable conclusion when you have a "winner take all" system where a couple hundred people ruling over 300m+ people across millions of square miles.

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    Shut down the government and try and impeach the president. I don't see how anyone can think that is a "big nothing burger".
    You're certainly old enough to remember the last couple of times the government was shut down. Remember when Obama started shutting down open air monuments in an obvious move to try and make it seem like the shut down was worse than it actually was.

    Also when have you put any faith in the republican party doing anything as extreme as impeaching the sitting president. The last "accomplishment" by the republican party was the overturning of Roe v. Wade and even then it was Supreme Court, not any of the spineless bunch that are sitting in the HoR or senate.
    Last edited by dday9; Sep 12th, 2023 at 08:27 AM.
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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    Democracy: The God That Failed by Hans-Hermann Hoppe is a good read. Don't misinterpret my recommendation, I'm not Hoppe-ian, but he always provides thought provoking books.

    Besides we don't live in a democracy, we never have, we live in a democratic republic. And there is nothing fragile about what is happening, it is simply the inevitable conclusion when you have a "winner take all" system where a couple hundred people ruling over 300m+ people across millions of square miles.


    You're certainly old enough to remember the last couple of times the government was shut down. Remember when Obama started shutting down open air monuments in an obvious move to try and make it seem like the shut down was worse than it actually was.

    Also when have you put any faith in the republican party doing anything as extreme as impeaching the sitting president. The last "accomplishment" by the republican party was the overturning of Roe v. Wade and even then it was Supreme Court, not any of the spineless bunch that are sitting in the HoR or senate.
    I don't think your being pedantic about how I use the word democracy negates my point and seems unnecessary. You know very well what I m referring to.

    The Constitution establishes a federal democratic republic form of government. That is, we have an indivisible union of 50 sovereign States. It is a democracy because people govern themselves. It is representative because people choose elected officials by free and secret ballot. It is a republic because the Government derives its power from the people.

    I'm not talking bout the effects of the shutdown either, it is how we are getting there and I think it makes our DEMOCRACY weaker. And the republicans can impeach him if they want, they have the votes.

    There is a party that would rather tear things down rather than contribute. They will be doing it over the next few weeks. I maintain that puts our democracy in a fragile position.
    Last edited by TysonLPrice; Sep 12th, 2023 at 09:49 AM.
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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    No, there are genuinely people out there that believe we live in a democracy. I'm not about to make the assumption that you know the difference when you aren't precise in your language.

    For the record the states are not indivisible. If the people of a state decide that they do not want to stay in the union then they can elect to leave. The 10th amendment says:
    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
    No where in the Constitution does it say that the United States has the power to prevent a state from leaving.
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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    Kevin McCarthy just announced an impeachment inquiry into President Biden. Regardless if we live in a democracy or not it weakens whatever government we do live in. The republicans readily admit there is no evidence for it...that is why they say we need an inquiry.
    Last edited by TysonLPrice; Sep 12th, 2023 at 11:09 AM.
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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    How can you seriously say that after the democrats spent years going after Trump because of the highly discredited Steele Dossier and there have been approximately 50,000 charges against the former president that are all basically the same charge worded differently.

    I seriously don't know why I continue to engage with you. You are one of the most partisan person I know.
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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    How can you seriously say that after the democrats spent years going after Trump because of the highly discredited Steele Dossier and there have been approximately 50,000 charges against the former president that are all basically the same charge worded differently.

    I seriously don't know why I continue to engage with you. You are one of the most partisan person I know.
    But you see I can say the same thing about how...how can you possibly compare the criminal activities from the Trump administration and congresses attempts to prosecute him for them to what the republicans are doing to Biden without any evidence. That is partisan.

    At least the democrats used evidence and facts to impeach. The republicans are holding an impeachment enquiry to FIND facts and evidence.
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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    They are both incredibly partisan, but two wrongs donít make a right.
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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    They are both incredibly partisan, but two wrongs donít make a right.
    Let me just ask you...do you think Trump deserved to be impeached?
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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    I have to agree with Ty on this impeachment. At least with Trump there was public knowledge of possible misconduct. There was actual evidence on the record, not just speculative accusation. I've been wondering what misconduct by Biden are the Reps going to impeach for. Not that it matters. Just like with Trump, there is no way it will pass the senate. It seems more like an eye for an eye thing. Basically for show and just like with Trump, a big waste of time.

    Democracy or Democratic Republic? meh
    Last edited by wes4dbt; Sep 12th, 2023 at 01:45 PM.

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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    Let me just ask you...do you think Trump deserved to be impeached?
    Yes, but for war crimes in Yemen not because of the information from the Steele dossier.
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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    At least with Trump there was public knowledge of possible misconduct. There was actual evidence on the record, not just speculative accusation.
    The right will point to Hunter Biden's laptop.

    Personally I think the laptop is as credible as the Steele dossier.
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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    Yes, but for war crimes in Yemen not because of the information from the Steele dossier.
    Trumps impeachments had nothing to do with the Russian collusion investigation.

    That went over my head...what war crimes in Yemen?
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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    Mohammed bin Salman and Mohammed bin Zayed invaded Yemen which was supposed to be over relatively quickly (like a few weeks) however it has been roughly 8 years so it didn't go nearly as quickly as they had hoped.

    In the meantime the Saudi and UAE coalition have been bombing civilians in incredible numbers using US provided warplanes that are serviced by American personnel, refueled by American tanker aircraft, directed by American intelligence, and armed with American supplied munitions. Then when a bill was passed noting that Congress never authorized the US war in Yemen and demanded an end to it, Trump just vetoed it.

    Don't get me wrong, Obama has a role in the Yemeni conflict but Trumps role only intensified a war that has claimed the lives of over 250k innocent civilians.
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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    The right will point to Hunter Biden's laptop.

    Personally I think the laptop is as credible as the Steele dossier.
    I don't know of anything from the laptop that shows presidential misconduct. Do you? I haven't followed it in depth. But haven't seen substantial.
    Last edited by wes4dbt; Sep 12th, 2023 at 02:52 PM.

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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    Yes, but for war crimes in Yemen not because of the information from the Steele dossier.
    What about the second impeachment? Do you think Trumps actions to overturn the election were illegal?

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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    I don't know of anything from the laptop that shows presidential misconduct. Do you? I haven't followed it in depth. But haven't seen substantial.
    That's my point, there is nothing substantial just like the dossier.

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    What about the second impeachment? Do you think Trumps actions to overturn the election were illegal?
    He does have an obligation to investigate allegations and I think Trump is vain enough to genuinely believe he couldn't have lost under "fair" conditions.
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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    That's my point, there is nothing substantial just like the dossier.


    He does have an obligation to investigate allegations and I think Trump is vain enough to genuinely believe he couldn't have lost under "fair" conditions.
    Not to gang up and it wasn't the point of my thread but "Trump is vain enough to genuinely believe he couldn't have lost under "fair" conditions." won't hold up in Georgia's court on the RICO charges for trying to orchestrate flipping the state's vote to illegally change the outcome of the election.
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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    What is easy to lose sight of is that a lot of Trump's support came from people who don't really care for Trump. What they wanted was somebody to represent them, as opposed to the corporate shills from the two parties. Plenty of them had supported Bernie Sanders when his campaign backed the interests of the people. That fell apart when he ducked, turned tail, and started kissing the hem of Hillary's cloak in opposition to every promise he had previously made.

    It didn't have to be Trump, but there was nobody else remaining in the running with any chance at all of beating back the duopoly. Lo and behold, it actually succeeded! Despite all of the election shenanigans Trump had levels of support that overcame them.

    It is no surprise that the machine was brought to bear against Trump. They would have gone after anyone else from outside the game, guns blazing just as hard. What sycophants of the machine don't realize is that none of this is about Trump.

    Nothing will ever come of investigations into Biden. That's all a dumbshow with a predetermined outcome, only going on to try to sucker fools back into the two Revival Meeting tents.

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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    He does have an obligation to investigate allegations and I think Trump is vain enough to genuinely believe he couldn't have lost under "fair" conditions.
    Is that all he did? Investigate allegations.

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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    It is no surprise that the machine was brought to bear against Trump. They would have gone after anyone else from outside the game, guns blazing just as hard.
    I don't have a real problem with that statement.

    What sycophants of the machine don't realize is that none of this is about Trump.
    But this ignores Trumps actions after he lost the election. These inditements are about those actions. There is no history of the winning party trying to find ways to indict the loser.

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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    I'm just curious...is there anyone on this thread that will vote for Trump if he is on the ballot?
    Last edited by TysonLPrice; Sep 12th, 2023 at 06:15 PM.
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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    What is easy to lose sight of is that a lot of Trump's support came from people who don't really care for Trump. What they wanted was somebody to represent them, as opposed to the corporate shills from the two parties. Plenty of them had supported Bernie Sanders when his campaign backed the interests of the people. That fell apart when he ducked, turned tail, and started kissing the hem of Hillary's cloak in opposition to every promise he had previously made.

    It didn't have to be Trump, but there was nobody else remaining in the running with any chance at all of beating back the duopoly. Lo and behold, it actually succeeded! Despite all of the election shenanigans Trump had levels of support that overcame them.

    It is no surprise that the machine was brought to bear against Trump. They would have gone after anyone else from outside the game, guns blazing just as hard. What sycophants of the machine don't realize is that none of this is about Trump.

    Nothing will ever come of investigations into Biden. That's all a dumbshow with a predetermined outcome, only going on to try to sucker fools back into the two Revival Meeting tents.
    I don't hear dday9 screaming "PARTISAN POLICTICS" about this post

    Maybe it is just personal...
    Last edited by TysonLPrice; Sep 12th, 2023 at 06:27 PM.
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  35. #35
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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    What was partisan about it? If anything you could call it "anti-partisan" i.e. trying to get representation of people instead of the lobbies that run the "two" parties in power.

  36. #36
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    I didnít read it to be honest, too much content for me to read on my phone but Iíll take your word that it is.

    But no, I wonít be voting for Trump if heís on the ballot. But same with Biden.
    "Code is like humor. When you have to explain it, itís bad." - Cory House
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  37. #37

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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    What was partisan about it? If anything you could call it "anti-partisan" i.e. trying to get representation of people instead of the lobbies that run the "two" parties in power.
    OK...after rereading it was not a partisan statement.
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  38. #38
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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    Weird. I went out and got the mail and found the 3rd set of voter registration forms that I have received this Summer. Two have come by mail now, and another was stuck in my front door.

    After the 1st one I checked, and sure enough I am still registered to vote.

    This seems really weird. Especially since for decades now it is pretty hard to renew your driver's license without registering to vote.

    The National Voter Registration Act Of 1993 (NVRA) might be better known to me than some, since I worked on its implementation here.

  39. #39
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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Weird. I went out and got the mail and found the 3rd set of voter registration forms that I have received this Summer. Two have come by mail now, and another was stuck in my front door.

    After the 1st one I checked, and sure enough I am still registered to vote.

    This seems really weird. Especially since for decades now it is pretty hard to renew your driver's license without registering to vote.

    The National Voter Registration Act Of 1993 (NVRA) might be better known to me than some, since I worked on its implementation here.
    1993?? Has it been that long. Doesn't seem like 30yrs since people would have a little table sitting by the store entrance asking you if you were registered.

  40. #40

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    Re: Next US government shutdown in a few weeks

    There are republicans that rally for the impeachment inquiry, to find a reason impeach, that would not vote to impeach Trump in the face of overwhelming evidence

    Democracies may die at the hands not of generals but of elected leadersópresidents or prime ministers who subvert the very process that brought them to power.

    https://www.americanacademy.de/how-democracies-die/
    Last edited by TysonLPrice; Sep 13th, 2023 at 04:52 AM.
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

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