Google Passkey

[dilettante]

The beginning of the end of the password

Passkeys are a new way to sign in to apps and websites. They’re both easier to use and more secure than passwords, so users no longer need to rely on the names of pets, birthdays or the infamous “password123.” Instead, passkeys let users sign in to apps and sites the same way they unlock their devices: with a fingerprint, a face scan or a screen lock PIN. And, unlike passwords, passkeys are resistant to online attacks like phishing, making them more secure than things like SMS one-time codes.

It looks like the rollout is beginning, and more consumer-facing "messaging" is coming out from spokesfolk:




I see issues:

• Are there security holes in it we don't see right now?
• How chaotic rather than simple will this turn out to be for casual users, and even those who try to stay on top of technology when impaired due to age, illness, or... "intoxication?"
• Can this be in the hands of one company like Google (or two assuming Apple collaboration under the table)?
• What else does it tie your life and identity to in passing? It already mandates one and only one "smartphone" assigned to one user, assumes TPMs in PCs, etc.

I'm not against it. I just haven't had time to absorb and process it, and I don't know what I need to set up first.

Phone lockscreens opened by face and fingerprint have both been problematic for me. I resorted to PIN, that got old fast, so for a while I've had no security on that at all. Looks like I need to wade back into that lava again.

Imagine what an auto accident, home fire, or other emergency can do to state of mind. Stuff that seems tech-whizzy and practical at 35 can become worrisome at 70 where you aren't using it every day. Some of us may not be getting there soon, but then we may have parents in that position.

Is a program of "drill and practice" the answer for that?

[Shaggy Hiker]

I can see it failing. Fingerprint scans are quite easy...so long as you both have the hardware, and it works. There are times when my fingerprint works, there are times when it doesn't. Sometimes, this could be due to damage to a fingertip, but just being sufficiently 'out of spec' in some way seems to impact it.

I have no issue with face recognition, but it does require that you have a camera and the software. I don't have a camera on my main computer, though I could certainly add one. One thing I don't know about is how accurate facial recognition is. I have that on my Surface Pro 7, and it works just fine. It unlocks when I look at it, in different conditions, and with and without glasses. Would it also unlock for somebody else who looked sufficiently like me? I don't know. Basically, it's a lock that unlocks for me. That doesn't mean it's a reliable lock, as it could also be a highly defective lock that absolutely anybody, and their dog, could unlock.

That leaves a PIN. I don't see anything particularly secure about a PIN. It's just a numeric password, as far as I can tell.

[wes4dbt]

I wonder how this might effect me. I turn off the lock screen on my pc and I don't use a cell phone for anything other than calls and texts. Well, that's not strictly true, I've had to use my cell phone to setup a few smart devices. Also, no lock screen on my cell phone.

[dilettante]

Yeah, I had to go into an Urgent Care last Saturday because I had an infection in my finger that went bad. They were shocked that I hadn't brought my phone along from home and weren't sure how to process me when I entered.

[wes4dbt]

Yeah, I had to go into an Urgent Care last Saturday because I had an infection in my finger that went bad. They were shocked that I hadn't brought my phone along from home and weren't sure how to process me when I entered.

I basically only have a cell phone for when I go places.

[OptionBase1]

I can see it failing. Fingerprint scans are quite easy...so long as you both have the hardware, and it works. There are times when my fingerprint works, there are times when it doesn't. Sometimes, this could be due to damage to a fingertip, but just being sufficiently 'out of spec' in some way seems to impact it.

In the mid 2000's, I was involved in a project to work on implementing "fingerprint" sign-ons at the organization I worked for at the time. We had a fairly large local IT company that was a reseller of this software in for several demo's, and one of the salesmen admitted in one of the meetings that he had a coworker whose fingerprint "matched" his, at least according to the software. Needless to say, the project was scrapped. Our organization (in the healthcare industry) had probably 25 or 50 times as many employees as this IT company had, and so the risk was there for many, many "false matches", which was sort of antithetic to HIPAA and the goal of enhancing security...

[dilettante]

I worry more about being locked out of things I'm authorized for. We keep jumping through hoops to keep the scammers and the scummers at bay, we pay the price, and they come here and share exploits making it all worth less or even nothing.

I see a lot of recipes shared here today for ways to run as Trusted Installer. Well, that was only a short hop from tolerating web scraping and OS tampering discussions.

[FunkyDexter]

That leaves a PIN. I don't see anything particularly secure about a PIN. It's just a numeric password, as far as I can tell.

As far as I understand it (which is far from complete) it's not the PIN that logs you in. It's an encrypted token held on your device. The PIN might log you into the device, but it's the token that logs you into the service/website etc. And it's the device that's responsible for separating tokens for multiple users.

I think the main complication I foresee is maintaining your identity across multiple devices. This is already the main problem I have with password lockers etc. as I don't keep my various devices synced in that way.

[dilettante]

The phone-centric model is frustrating.

Even clunky big ones have smaller print and are clumsy to carry constantly. Are people wearing some sort of "kangaroo pouch" shoulder-strapped baby-on-belly phone carriers now or what? Mine sure isn't pocketable. I can jam it into some pockets but getting it out when it rings might mean telling it not to answer by mis-swipe or not accepting before it goes to voicemail.

The couple across the street from me are both about 15 years younger than I am, but also note that close vision is fading. Worse yet, they've made their lifestyle more dependent on the phone. They find they need to whip out reading glasses now, since bi-focals are no longer cutting it.

Kangaroo pouch plus a pair of chains for two sets of glasses?


A fix might be a phone design that is a bit smaller yet with larger text, go back to clicky buttons and a resistive screen with stylus for access beyond the call buttons. Not back to flip phones, but maybe a thinner and more powerful version of what we had in the old Windows smartphones before Microsoft trashed their platform and their fortunes with Windows Phone 7.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I struggle with what to do with the phone, too....which reminds me that I left my phone in my car. That's not a surprise. When I had a flip phone, I also had a belt clip. The options these days just don't thrill me. I have a phone holster...somewhere, but the phone is big enough that the holster is awkward. It was always somewhat awkward, as it never seemed simple to attach to my belt.

[dilettante]

In the old days I used a tiny Motorola Bluetooth speaker that clipped to my sun visor. It was straightforward to use.

Now the phone integrates into the infotainment system and even has buttons on the steering wheel as well as voice prompting to answer or dial from my contacts list, etc. Yet I'm sure I'd miss more calls trying to use it. It is far more complex or at least non-intuitive. I suppose I need to make myself practice it by calling kids from the car and having them call me, but I wouldn't blame them for getting impatient.

I wonder how many doodad "features" simply go unused by most people, unwilling to admit they are stumped? This stuff tries to do too much and is woefully under-standardized, especially over the long term.

I remember the day when you could visit a friend and have the full expectation that if you needed to make a call the home phone there was going to work for you without taking a shortcourse.

[dilettante]

Maybe Klaus Schwab's next slogan can be "You will know nothing, and be happy!"

[dilettante]

I had hoped that one of those "jogger's arm holster" things would work for general use, hand the nerdy appearance. I have no idea how these work for joggers, even doing milder activities they fall to my elbow over and over again.

I tried one again today. I have a finger bandaged because it got infected, had to be lanced, I'm on antibiotics for it and soaking in Epsom Salts every 4 hours. Missed two calls because with the finger wrapped up I can't grab the phone loose and swipe accurately.

I guess I'm just too clumsy and all of this is a breeze for everyone else. Or maybe they all carry a purse?

[wes4dbt]

I tried one again today. I have a finger bandaged because it got infected, had to be lanced, I'm on antibiotics for it and soaking in Epsom Salts every 4 hours. Missed two calls because with the finger wrapped up I can't grab the phone loose and swipe accurately.

I guess I'm just too clumsy and all of this is a breeze for everyone else. Or maybe they all carry a purse?

There is also those of us whose hands don't function normally. I can't even grab a cell phone by the sides so I have to try and balance it on my fist while trying to swipe. Not fun for me but people do seem to enjoy watching me try. lol

Luckily I rarely get a call on my cell. But there are things like smart home devices that I need to use a cell phone.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I had hoped that one of those "jogger's arm holster" things would work for general use, hand the nerdy appearance. I have no idea how these work for joggers, even doing milder activities they fall to my elbow over and over again.

If you can still feel your fingers by the end of a jog, you have it too loose.

Actually, nobody should take that advice.

EDIT: And anybody who needs that second line needs their head examined.

[TysonLPrice]

For work I have three applications that I log onto that have 2FA and each uses a different application on my phone to provide me the final code. One of them, when I first signed in, gave me ten one time use codes in case the app was down. Losing or the phone breaking would hurt a lot more now than what used to be just losing the contacts. I don't keep pictures on it.

As a side note I had a flip type cell phone that I accidently ran through the washing machine. I took out the battery and put it in a bowl of rice for a couple days. It fired right up. The read out was fuzzy for a bit but cleared up. I had it for a while after that. I doubt my Samsung S20 could handle that.

[dilettante]

Ihand the nerdy appearance.

Sheesh! That must have been a typo, because it make no sense though I know what I was trying to say. Maybe "hang" instead?

I'll go with fat fingers, because I'm hoping cognitive decline hasn't hit me harder than I'd imagined.

It sure sucks to get old.

[wes4dbt]

It sure sucks to get old.

I agree. The only thing worse is the alternative. lol

[dilettante]

I'm not in the market and I'm not making recommendations, but what do you think about this direction in form-factors:



More than I'd spend, but if durable enough a cheaper phone of this style might get my interest.

Sad that trying to search out phones targeted to folks older or with disabilities turns up just a few dreadful alternatives that might not even be viable for modern living.

[dilettante]

Ugh. Just saw an ad for a Hyundai car that uses your smartphone as the key to enter, start, remote-start, remote windows-open, etc.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Ugh. Just saw an ad for a Hyundai car that uses your smartphone as the key to enter, start, remote-start, remote windows-open, etc.

That's going way too far for me. I'm always forgetting my phone in my car.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I'm not in the market and I'm not making recommendations, but what do you think about this direction in form-factors:



More than I'd spend, but if durable enough a cheaper phone of this style might get my interest.

Sad that trying to search out phones targeted to folks older or with disabilities turns up just a few dreadful alternatives that might not even be viable for modern living.

My first thought was: Nope. However, after watching the video, it's not quite as nope as I thought. The main reason I went to a smart phone was to use it as a navigation system on my bike...cause I tend to go on very long trips on very weird routes. It looks like it would fit into the holder I have. I'd be concerned that the holder wouldn't hold the phone securely. It holds the four corners with tension, so would it remain rigid, or would the hinge allow it to jiggle out of the holder?

The second main concern I have is the battery life. I went for the longest battery life I could get without an external battery because of those bike trips. I see the battery life is better, so that's something. It's not as good as what I'm getting, currently, but it's also a whole lot more compact. That smaller form factor does look pretty nice.

[dilettante]

Yeah, there is already news of a follow-on model launch too. But I agree with your concerns about battery life and durability... as well as price.

I suppose I'd like to see something easier to pocket and cheap, but without lowering features so far it couldn't be my only phone.

[wes4dbt]

Sad that trying to search out phones targeted to folks older or with disabilities turns up just a few dreadful alternatives that might not even be viable for modern living.

So far I've kept my need for a cell phone very minimal. But it's getting harder and harder to avoid. Had to change my pharmacy. My new pharmacy only send notification by text, wont do emails. Since I go days without even touching my cell phone, text notifications don't work well. But that's just me. For most people the cell phone is a tremendous tool.

[dilettante]

Another recent Google doodad I just discovered. My main PC is still x86 so it doesn't work there. I do have an x64 Win 11 system I'll gradually move over to though.

[dilettante]

I see that Motorola is coming out with phones like this as well. One will be like the Flip 5, the other more like the Flip 4 from Samsung in the video above but a bit cheaper.

[TysonLPrice]

It sure sucks to get old.

And it only gets worse...until you die