Train wreck Greece

[sapator]

There was a huge train wreck yesterday, possibly the bloodiest ever in Greece.
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/w...e/11372695002/

We are still counting victims. Thankfully non of my friends and relatives was on the train.

Today they "cut-stopped" the in city train transportations because there was also the same issues (no electronic warning on the way you head to and adequate personnel) and in general there is panic.
The closest train city line that has the issues is currently visible from my office window. No train for 7 hours. It's the airport-city train. I usually do 25-30 minutes to go to work and today I did it in almost an hour and a half.

The traitor politician dogs have the electronic precautions system bought in 6-7 years, the exact time it's slipping my mind right now and they do not install it for whatever reason.
Now all the sold out media try to give the blame only to the station master.

I hope Greek people will remember what happened today on the upcoming elections. I truly hope so.

[dilettante]

Good luck with that.

One of the reasons pap sports are promoted is to train the masses to blindly rally behind "teams" ("gangs" is probably the more accurate term). The transfer of this lemminghood to political parties produces captive voting habits.

[sapator]

Thanks dil.
What exactly are pap sports?

[FunkyDexter]

Yeah, it's been being reported on the news over here for the last few days. From what I can gather it's a lack of investment by successive governments, presumably as a result of the austerity measures imposed after the debt crisis. For me the take away lesson is that you can't run important public services on thin air, they need investment to keep them safe. For a government to do it to it's own countries infrastructure is bad enough, but for the IMF and EU to impose austerity on a sovereign nation has had truly awful consequences.

[TysonLPrice]

There was one on the other side of the state I live in:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/02/us/oh...day/index.html

The Greek train wreck was terrible but once he bodies are recovered and the mess cleaned up normal life can continue. It is looking like East Palestine will be contaminated for a ling time and I'm sure illness will be haunting all those people for years to come.

The US has the rail industry fighting safety changes constantly. Trump rolled some of the safety rules back.

https://news.yahoo.com/donald-trump-...020631337.html

And then had the nerve to show up there and hand out water.

[TysonLPrice]

This thread made me curious...these are the worst five train wrecks in history:

https://www.arnolditkin.com/blog/tra...%20this%20list.

The Maurienne Derailment considered the worst.

[FunkyDexter]

I think the important thing is that this is the worst there's ever been in Greece. It hits Greeks hard for that reason.

That said, any disaster sucks. Particularly when, with hindsight, they were avoidable.

[TysonLPrice]

I think the important thing is that this is the worst there's ever been in Greece. It hits Greeks hard for that reason.

That said, any disaster sucks. Particularly when, with hindsight, they were avoidable.

I wasn't trying to detract from that. The thread made me curious and the East Palestine wreck is in my local news everyday. Additionally in Greece the was a terrible loss of human life. The East Palestine wreck is an ecological disaster that people could be dealing with for generations.

[sapator]

Yeah, it's been being reported on the news over here for the last few days. From what I can gather it's a lack of investment by successive governments, presumably as a result of the austerity measures imposed after the debt crisis. For me the take away lesson is that you can't run important public services on thin air, they need investment to keep them safe. For a government to do it to it's own countries infrastructure is bad enough, but for the IMF and EU to impose austerity on a sovereign nation has had truly awful consequences.

Agreed but I re checked and I was wrong about the train system setup.
It was bought before 2008 memorandum and it was not installed due to? Boredom?
Also we spend 700-800 millions from 2008 to train infrastructures so it's not like we luck the money and we do not have That big of train network(probably the smallest in Europe) but the issue is most of the money where "eaten" by party dogs and as a result we lack the personnel. Combine this with the systems not set and you got a disaster waiting to happen.

[sapator]

I think the important thing is that this is the worst there's ever been in Greece. It hits Greeks hard for that reason.

That said, any disaster sucks. Particularly when, with hindsight, they were avoidable.

Yes, you have to do the math. Train wretch victims vs total population , then you get an estimate.

[TysonLPrice]

Yes, you have to do the math. Train wretch victims vs total population , then you get an estimate.

Kind of like a bus crash in Wyoming...

[sapator]

I don't get the reference but, OK.

[dilettante]

Yeah, I don't think anyone was trying to minimize the cost in human life. The sadness and sympathy are hard to express in a genuine way but that doesn't mean people don't feel it.

[szlamany]

Good luck with that.

One of the reasons pap sports are promoted is to train the masses to blindly rally behind "teams" ("gangs" is probably the more accurate term). The transfer of this lemminghood to political parties produces captive voting habits.

This is the best - I want to up-vote this comment! "Lemminghood" - I love it!

Thanks dil.
What exactly are pap sports?

Maybe Paparazzi?

I call sports and all the rest of the main stream video-slaw "pablum" - all our society requires is a little bland baby food - how sad.

[sapator]

This is the best - I want to up-vote this comment! "Lemminghood" - I love it!

Maybe Paparazzi?

I call sports and all the rest of the main stream video-slaw "pablum" - all our society requires is a little bland baby food - how sad.

Lemmings are great.

I never heard that slang, pap, you learn something new every day.

[TysonLPrice]

I don't get the reference but, OK.

There is hardy anybody living there compared to other US states. You have to do the math. Bus wreck victims vs total population , then you get an estimate.

[FunkyDexter]

I wasn't trying to detract from that.

Sorry, I didn't mean that to come across as accusatory. I just meant that our response to incidents like this tends to be informed by relative events which is why this crash is a huge deal in Greece but may not be so extraordinary when viewed through a different lens.

The East Palestine rail crash also got reported over here too. Although I do think the number of recent tragedies is starting to breed some exhaustion. War in Ukraine, two Earthquakes in Turkey/Syria, Train crash in East Palestine, Train in Greece... it feels like we're getting more than our fair share of tragedies just recently.

[sapator]

You are correct.
And Greece not having a war, guns possession, terrorists. We get deaths from car and train wrecks or some plane wrecks but military.
So ye a bloody weekend in US is easily compared to a huge tragedy in Greece but we are not used to it.
We also must add the deaths on Armenia Nagorno-Karabakh if we are counting 2020 + .

[dilettante]

pap:

soft or bland food for infants or invalids

[szlamany]

pap:

soft or bland food for infants or invalids

wow - pap same as pablum - we are on the same page here!

[Shaggy Hiker]

The US has fought train safety improvements of all types. They tend to be installed only after some accident grabs headlines. I suppose that might be the general human condition. If you spend the money to install something that prevents some type of accident before the accident happens, then people may well say that you are wasting money or adding unnecessary burdens on industry. After all, you can't measure the accidents that don't happen, so you can never tell whether or not you have done anything positive if you take action before a negative outcome has happened.

[TysonLPrice]

You are correct.
And Greece not having a war, guns possession, terrorists. We get deaths from car and train wrecks or some plane wrecks but military.
So ye a bloody weekend in US is easily compared to a huge tragedy in Greece but we are not used to it.
We also must add the deaths on Armenia Nagorno-Karabakh if we are counting 2020 + .

Yes...this kind of gun violence isn't tolerated anywhere but war zones and the US.


30 People Shot, 6 Fatally, in Weekend Shootings Across Chicago

According to the Chicago Police Department, there were 27 separate incidents between 6 p.m. Friday and 11:59 p.m. Sunday. That included two 18-year-olds who were killed in different shootings Sunday.

https://news.wttw.com/2023/01/23/30-...chicago-police

[TysonLPrice]

This is a new development..

A Greek train driver was told to ignore a red light before a head-on crash killed 57

https://www.npr.org/2023/03/03/11608...on-crash-kille

[sapator]

I'm not sure if that is accurate, although I was off for 3 days doing other stuff.
What I can think is a wrong translation but I won't be sure until I can sit down again and connect to the world.

[TysonLPrice]

Looks like the station manager was arrested:

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...es-2023-03-01/

[sapator]

Ye 4 days ago.
Well he was held as the primary responsible for the wreck (excluding that he had the job by politician help (and previously ,if I'm not mistaken was a bag carrier)) , it would be quite a surprise if he was not arrested but in Greece nothing would surprise me, including not been arrested at the spot.

Also I see nowhere an indication of a train driver been told to ignore the red light. What I show on TV today was that the train board (mind you not a screen, just an old board will lights and blips) might or might not have worked and the station manager might or might not have seen it. But it's too early to know.
What I would also like to see is all the people that did not install the GPS system since 2004 been arrested but, again, Greece, all quiet in the western front.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I don't think that's just Greece. Over the last couple decades, I've read stories about improvements in rail safety being slow walked in the US, as well. Technically, rail systems should be something that could be automated to exceptional levels of safety. There aren't many lanes, there aren't many intersections, there aren't many trains, you can track each one perfectly, etc. Knowing where trains are, the status of switches, and whether or not there will be any conflicts, are all problems that should have solutions FAR simpler than air traffic control or highway logistics. Once you add in status monitoring, which sounds like it was the ultimate cause of the train wreck in Palestine, Ohio, things get more complicated, but not that much more complicated. The sensors required to monitor the wheels of cars only become expensive because there can be so MANY of them needed. The technology itself is pretty simple. Also, considering how much remote monitoring is going on with modern jet engines, the wheels of train cars just isn't all that much.

Still, profit...

[sapator]

The system has been bought 20 years ago.
How long does it take to install it?
I mean....

The issue is that every elected government would change the contracts to allure the contractors (ye our idiots have given parts of the railroad to private companies) and the contractors would just get the contract money, "stall" it (the contract), for some (wink,wink) ,extra (wink wink), non deployed services that would cost them money to make (so actually install it to the network), aka, profit(wink wink).

[TysonLPrice]

The technology itself is pretty simple.

I'd have to look to be sure but I think the width of the US railroad tracks are gauged after the English tracks. That size was from the width of the tracks of a two horse drawn Roman chariot. I may be all wet but I heard that one time.

I found the post...it had to do with the size of the space shuttle boosters.

http://www.astrodigital.org/space/stshorse.html

[Shaggy Hiker]

The system has been bought 20 years ago.
How long does it take to install it?
I mean....

The issue is that every elected government would change the contracts to allure the contractors (ye our idiots have given parts of the railroad to private companies) and the contractors would just get the contract money, "stall" it (the contract), for some (wink,wink) ,extra (wink wink), non deployed services that would cost them money to make (so actually install it to the network), aka, profit(wink wink).

The funny thing about that is that I remember a discussion of foot-dragging regarding safety improvements in US trains from....about twenty years ago.

Basically, I think the problem has a solution and nobody is willing to do the work until somebodies butt is in a sling over it.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I'd have to look to be sure but I think the width of the US railroad tracks are gauged after the English tracks. That size was from the width of the tracks of a two horse drawn Roman chariot. I may be all wet but I heard that one time.

I found the post...it had to do with the size of the space shuttle boosters.

http://www.astrodigital.org/space/stshorse.html

That story's pretty funny, but if they were Spanish, then they wouldn't have needed to worry about the size so much:

https://www.businessinsider.com/spai...tunnels-2023-2

[TysonLPrice]

That story's pretty funny, but if they were Spanish, then they wouldn't have needed to worry about the size so much:

https://www.businessinsider.com/spai...tunnels-2023-2

From the link "President of Cantabria Miguel Angel Revilla called the circumstance an "unspeakable botch," according to local newspaper El Diario Montañés."

It reminded me, I'll look for it if it doesn't sound right, but we crashed a vehicle straight into mars. It was a joint us/European venture and certain calculations were done in metric and some in English. It crashed into Mars at a high speed.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Yeah, I remember that one. Seems like it was several years back.

[sapator]

So it seems that the train carried something very explosive and illegal and most people where burned alive not crashed. Party dogs denied it but they rushed to cover all the area with asphalt.
We are governed by gangsters.

[Shaggy Hiker]

What was it?

Covering stuff with asphalt is a tried and true remedy. In Idaho, we ended up with a very nice bike path from doing that. The route is the old railbed for the railroad serving the mines in the silver valley. Since silver ore can be up to 50% lead, the amount of lead along that railbed is terribly high. That left two alternatives: Bury in place, or haul it somewhere else and bury it there.

Some pollutants, we simply have no reasonable means to 'clean them up'. All that can be done is move the problem from one location to another. Depending on what the material was, covering in asphalt might have been the best alternative, as the others might have been no more effective while being FAR more expensive.

I understand your suspicion, but in this case, I think you need to get more facts.

[sapator]

A Parliament party leader presented reports of firemen without fire burnings and with intact clothes getting chemical burns of 2nd and 3rd degree without apparent reason.
Also the train company claimed that they carried beers and apricots but there was a 3 way megablast that no one can explain.
Here are the "beers" exploding:




In any case I don't need to get more facts , I have no one to convince like on covid and lawyers of the victims are starting to ask the same question. It's 100% sure that this will not be resolved with this government or a newly elected party dog traitorous government but I'll update if anything comes up.

[Shaggy Hiker]

That's good beer.

Still, my point stands: If it's the right kind of bad, paving it over may well be the best possible response, lame though it may be.

In the US, several states tried to refuse the debris removed from the Ohio crash. Now the courts are involved. We simply don't have a solution for some kinds of contaminations.