Which .NET framework version is it? for UI

[pourkascheff]

I'm using an Australian-based Altium designer software for printed circuit boards designing. I noticed the newer versions follow a modern way of UI which you may see in other programs as well.

The question is what do they use? For Adobe Photoshop for instance, I heard they wrote their own controls in C++ which in any platforms (Including Windows XP and Windows 7) despite you do not have darkmode, controls and app theme is all dark. Similar took place for Steinberg Cubase 12 which all controls, literally ALL controls have a sort of skin which belongs to cubase. How do they does this? Is it WindowsForm or WPF or something else?

- Do not forget that main idea is still Altium designer which I guess it is a Winform sort of application with upgraded Visual studio version or using a higher .NET framework. According to the Microsoft, newer frameworks are beta and are not supported for all platforms.

For more information here's a screenshot:


1) Some sort of pin-able toolwindow with animated in opening and closing in their tabs.
2) Some kind of collapsible groupboxes I guess? Which are great idea oh god I admire its programming team.
3) Good system-style looking radio buttons.
4) TreeView with small triangular button instead of +/- symbols with a built-in search.

[jmcilhinney]

They may be using this:

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotne...y-toolkit-800/

[pourkascheff]

wow, thank you sir. It's a relief when M.I.T. on GitHub is behind it... I installed Microsoft .NET Community Toolkit V8.1.0 MVVM through NuGet section in Visual Studio 2019 (Build ) on Windows 11 not on a blank project. A previous testing winform project with .NET framework target of 4.7.2 (My latest) but following error occurred:
The expression "[MSBuild]::VersionGreaterThanOrEquals('', 4.3)" cannot be evaluated. Version string was not in a correct format.

What I tried: Reducing target framework to lower (4, then 3. I do noy have 4.3.) even more errors occurred during rebuilding the project. I also tried rebooting PC (Well, it's a framework thing after all...) What could be missing? What is wrong with it?

Updated: I even removed it from reference tab from project settings. Same error on build operation.

[jmcilhinney]

I've never used it but i don't think it will work in a WinForms project. It's intended for XAML-based projects I think. That means WPF or UWP or the like.

[pourkascheff]

Oh, my bad. I was almost sure that example software had a WinForm cradle. Since you are familiar to these kind of toolkits and plug-ins, Can you introduce more on this thread for other enthusiasts like me?

I already tried Syncfusion and DevExpress and they were awesome. I was quite happy with them but not very useable in everywhere and every project. I'm looking for a more like Microsoft itself built-in .NET framework, You install once, you benefit a lifetime. Your buttons are always rounded-edge and dark, Your TabControl internal color can be changeable (Which I dedicated a thread for this matter once), and so on...

If there's a look-up table for NuGet WinForm useful/popular plug-ins to reduce time? I sorted them but I'm not sure which one is suitable for my work. Not only the UI and designing - the point of this thread - network code bundles for instance are also welcome peace

[Niya]

I've never used it but i don't think it will work in a WinForms project. It's intended for XAML-based projects I think. That means WPF or UWP or the like.

They said this:-

The .NET Community Toolkit is a collection of helpers and APIs that work for all .NET developers and are agnostic of any specific UI platform.

I'd take that to mean it works in any kind of .Net project.

[Shaggy Hiker]

That is certainly open to interpretation, so it could have been written more clearly, but if you go on down to the "Little Bit of History" section, they state that this is built off of a UWP package. Was that ever WinForms? Was that ever Framework? I can't keep it straight, but I thought UWP was always Core, and would now mean .NET 5/6, and not Framework.

It looks like it is no longer UWP, though. Still doesn't mean Framework.

[Niya]

That is certainly open to interpretation

I don't think it is and this is exactly the sort of thing I use as grounds to dismiss certain products whether it's a .Net library or shampoo. If you make a clear cut claim like that and the product doesn't live up to that claim, I'm looking for something else.

Now I'm sure their intent wasn't to deceive. Most likely it's something they overlooked that causes a bug or perhaps OP's problem has nothing to do with WinForms being chosen at all.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I would argue about the definition of the word 'platform'. I think we have the same definition, but I'm not so sure that everybody does. WinForms isn't cross platform, so I took their statement to potentially mean "not WinForms", or at least not using anything that is specific to WinForms. Of course, that IS what they meant, because they came from UWP, so they probably always viewed WinForms as "Other". Still, WinForms IS a UI platform, so it should be included.

That's a bit irrelevant, though. The real question, in my mind, is whether or not UWP works with .NET Framework, and it does not. Pourkascheff stated that they were working with Framework 4.7.2, so that's out.

[Niya]

I would argue about the definition of the word 'platform'. I think we have the same definition, but I'm not so sure that everybody does.

That's a bit irrelevant, though. The real question, in my mind, is whether or not UWP works with .NET Framework, and it does not. Pourkascheff stated that they were working with Framework 4.7.2, so that's out.

I get what you're saying but I think they mean exactly what we think they mean. I mean even before phrase they claims it works for all .Net developers. All meaning no matter what you're using as long as it's .Net.

Now if it's failing because of WinForms then that means the library is not up to spec because it's incapable of doing something that it was explicitly stated to be capable of. This means it's quite possible that it could be not up to spec in other areas hence it's unreliable. This is why it's so important for us as developers to make sure of software does exactly what we say it does.

I went through this same thing with Platform UNO and it left a really bad taste in my mouth. They made a bunch of wild claims about the things it could do and I ended up wasting a week on that just to get it barely working in a very niche circumstance.

If I were OP, I'd test with WPF and UWP also to see what happens. If it does indeed work, I'd advise him not to put too much faith in it. If they got one of their core promises wrong, no telling how many other things they got wrong.

I'd also like to say that if what OP is really after is a fancy modern UI, WPF is made for exactly this purpose. I've seen some truly spectacular UIs made in WPF on the internet and it can certainly make a UI like the one posted in the OP.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I was also wondering whether or not the OP could get what they want using styling in WPF. I wasn't quite clear on the ultimate objective, but it seemed to be largely about a consistent style, which is what styling is all about.

On the other hand, I suck at art, so my style tends to be clunky at best.

[dday9]

I have been using a WebView2 to handle my UI so that I can use HTML/CSS to make it look pretty (and consistent) but push messages back to my Windows Form Application so that I can still leverage the Win32 code that I enjoy with traditional WinForm apps in VB.NET.

There is a bit of a security risk in that any savvy user can inspect the source code, but most of my logic lives in the WinForm app so they can't see that anyways.

[Niya]

I have been using a WebView2 to handle my UI so that I can use HTML/CSS to make it look pretty (and consistent) but push messages back to my Windows Form Application so that I can still leverage the Win32 code that I enjoy with traditional WinForm apps in VB.NET.

I've seen Olaf demonstrate this same kind of technique for creating fancy UIs in VB6. Seems to be a common technique among some developers.

On the other hand, I suck at art, so my style tends to be clunky at best.

Yea, you have to have some artistic talent for this sort of stuff. It's very easy for non-artists like my self to make ugly UIs even when using the best technologies.

[dday9]

It's a shame that Microsoft is married to XAML because there is existing technology like HTML/CSS that allows for richer UI. Then again, we saw this with Microsoft keeping with XML until they finally started using JSON in .NET core.

[Niya]

MS likes to bet their farm on the strangest things. Sometimes there is an obvious best choice yet they go out of their way to avoid it.

[jmcilhinney]

They said this:-


I'd take that to mean it works in any kind of .Net project.

There are four libraries comprising that toolkit and I think the relevant one is "CommunityToolkit.Mvvm (aka “Microsoft MVVM Toolkit”)". I'm not 100% sure but I think that one is XAML-specific. The fact that it's aimed at MVVM suggest it won't work with WinForms. I've never used this toolkit at all though, so I'm making a number of assumptions. That page also says about that library specifically:

Platform agnostic: meaning it doesn’t have any dependencies on specific UI frameworks. You can use it to share code across UWP, WinUI 3, MAUI, WPF, Avalonia, Uno, and more!

That doesn't say that WinForms is excluded but, if it were supported, I'd expect it to be listed explicitly.

[pourkascheff]

Um, Hello? I'm not sure what are you people are arguing about. Shall I use it or not? (Based on answer #5)

Irrelevant question, are you following IEEE/IEC standards to code and design a software? (Only code oriented maybe? What is it all about?)

There was an article by Microsoft (I didn't find it online) (Also available as PDF. I have it locally) under name of "Get started with desktop Windows apps that use the Win32 API" absolutely around design principles (thread topic), things to do, things not to do, things to observe and obey.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Um, Hello? I'm not sure what are you people are arguing about. Shall I use it or not? (Based on answer #5)

Don't be depriving us of our favorite pastime.

I'd say that if you are sticking with Framework, then you can't use it. If you are thinking about moving on, then this might be a reason. I'm kind of in that position, myself. I have a sizable project that is in Framework, but have been writing newer stuff in .NET 6 (never used 5 or anything called .NET Core). There's not much difference making that step. On the other hand, I've also started writing something in WPF. There's quite a bit of difference between a XAML designer and a WinForms designer. Quite a bit of difference in form design considerations, too, though most of those differences are optional. It's not an easy decision to make.

[pourkascheff]

I didn't mean to be rude or anything.
Code efficiency and reliability is more important to my this-specific-project, So I have to give up the code-to-design phase I guess...

[dday9]

You weren't being rude, Shaggy was being "cheeky" as they say across the pond.

Keep in mind that you can still use good ole .NET framework WinForm applications using the run of the mill controls provided in the toolbox. The upside to this is that you have the ability to rapidly bang out some sturdy applications, the downside is that it will look like something from Win95.

That is the whole thing with programing architecture. There will never be a perfect option, only several good options, and it is up to you to determine which option fits your need for the specific project.