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Thread: Here we go again...

  1. #1

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    Here we go again...

    Trump announced he is running for President.

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/15/polit...esidential-bid

    Personally I don't think he has a chance but he will really damage the party's efforts. Which is OK to me. And I was just getting over my hate for him.
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    Fanatic Member 2kaud's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Of course he's running. Over the hills and far-far away....

    The interesting question is whether Biden will run again - and will it end up as the same contest as before - Biden vs Trump with the same result??
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    Re: Here we go again...

    He is such a putz.... I wonder at what point he drops out? Did anyone read how he tried to raise money in Georgia to help out H. Walker??? 90% of any money goes to Dump Trump...
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by 2kaud View Post
    Of course he's running. Over the hills and far-far away....

    The interesting question is whether Biden will run again - and will it end up as the same contest as before - Biden vs Trump with the same result??
    I hope Biden doesn't run again and I voted for him. I personally don't think Trump will make it through the republican primaries but I was wrong about that before. Trump's first run was covered extensively by the media mainly like he was an abhorrent joke. I think that is how he got through the primaries. I don't think he'll get that kind of coverage again. Even from Fox.
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Long way to go and anything can happen. I'm not sure the duopoly is going to allow him to oppose them again.

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    Re: Here we go again...

    I personally think he'll win the primaries. That's driven by the base and the base love him. Then he'll lose the election because everyone except the Republican base hates him.
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    I personally think he'll win the primaries. That's driven by the base and the base love him. Then he'll lose the election because everyone except the Republican base hates him.
    Fox news has a lot to say about his success and I've read Trump and Murdock aren't the buddies they used to be.
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    Re: Here we go again...

    The Republican establishment offers rank and file workers and families even less now than they did when they triggered the rise of the Tea Party way back when. I'm not sure they will roll over for them now, and I'm not sure what else they might choose.

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    Re: Here we go again...

    Trump doesn't have the unwavering support of Murdoch the way he did in the past. However, he has no qualms about aggressively going after the competition, which means other Republicans, for the next couple years.

    At this point, I DO expect Biden to run again, because he hasn't suggested otherwise. A whole lot can change in the next two years, but Biden v Trump round 2 seems to have the best odds, at this point in time.
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    Re: Here we go again...

    I personally think he'll win the primaries. That's driven by the base and the base love him. Then he'll lose the election because everyone except the Republican base hates him.
    Unfortunately I agree. He also has a huge amount of money in his political war chest and still a fair amount of the GOP fear crossing him.

    At this point, I DO expect Biden to run again, because he hasn't suggested otherwise. A whole lot can change in the next two years, but Biden v Trump round 2 seems to have the best odds, at this point in time.
    That's just sad. 340,000,000 people and we can't do better than that. Where's all the charismatic energetic youngsters. You know, UNDER 70.

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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Biden won because he was a bland centrist. The charismatic, energetic, youngsters are all pushing progressive ideas. That wasn't the safe opponent for Trump, and the safe opponent was what the Democrats wanted. However, that doesn't apply for a sitting president. It is very rare for a sitting president who runs for reelection to be challenged from their own party. So, if Biden does run again, he'll get the nomination.
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    Re: Here we go again...

    One problem for younger folks is that to enter and advance within the parties you almost have to be pretty radical. The products of such a sorting hat are generally too extreme to be able to sell to a broader constituency. From the position of the old fossils that works just fine, since they are all about increasing their own personal wealth and power.

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    Re: Here we go again...

    Donald Trump Makes People Gag With Potential New Slogan For 2024

    Social media joked that “Make America Great And Glorious Again” ― or MAGAGA ― would replace Trump’s “Make America Great Again” MAGA acronym from 2016.

    “The hats’ll have to say MAGAGA - make America great and glorious again. If it makes you gag, get used to it,” cracked Harvard constitutional law professor Laurence Tribe.
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...fe24bad44caa4c
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    Administrator Steve R Jones's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Trump doesn't have the unwavering support of Murdoch the way he did in the past. However, he has no qualms about aggressively going after the competition, which means other Republicans, for the next couple years.
    GOOD CALL...

    Fox News Chief Rupert Murdoch Reportedly Called Trump To Tell Him ‘We Cannot Back Another Run For The White House’
    https://uproxx.com/viral/trump-ruper...campaign-over/
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve R Jones View Post
    Social media joked that “Make America Great And Glorious Again” ― or MAGAGA ― would replace Trump’s “Make America Great Again” MAGA acronym from 2016.
    Social media is at best stupid and at worst peddling lies.

    If you watched his speech Trump never offered that as a replacement slogan. He was listing a series of informal "sloganettes" leading up to his old one. Sort of playing his audience, just part of his communication style.

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    Re: Here we go again...

    Dems have their hands in the pocket of the gigantic FTX fraud and Fox is still covering it. I don't see Murdock rolling over for the Biden regime yet.


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    Re: Here we go again...

    The biggest doner is George Soros $128.5M and he donates to Democrats.

    The next top three are republican donors:

    Elizabeth and Richard Uihlein $70.2 million
    Kenneth Griffin $65.9M
    Jeffrey Yass $48.2M

    Then comes Sam Bankman-Fried $39.2M
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  18. #18
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Donations are illegal in Greece. It's like someone taking bribe in order to help in with future, with bending laws for them of allowing illegal gun sells etc. Of course the difference is that in Greece it is done under the table while in the states it is straight up in your face. It's like you have seen so many people taking drugs in your backward "legally" so you are fine with it. That's a shame.
    I mean Soros, the Jew squealer of Jews to the Nazis is donating to the Democrats. Search for the problem here.
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Dems have their hands in the pocket of the gigantic FTX fraud and Fox is still covering it. I don't see Murdock rolling over for the Biden regime yet.

    Not sure what anyone was/is supposed to do about it... it was a house of cards...
    I remember the Enron debacle... no one batted an eye at that... why should this be any different?
    And when it comes to crypto, it wouldn't surprise me if this is just the beginning.


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    Re: Here we go again...

    Well my only real point was that Fox News still carries messaging for the GOP. Presenting it in reference to the crypto scandal that profited the enabling and shielding Dems probably wasn't necessary. But you can see more like the "Firing Pelosi" stories they are airing too.

    If it makes you feel better Fox seems to be siding with the Romneycrats though and shying away from Trump.

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    Re: Here we go again...

    No, an indictment wouldn’t end Trump’s run for the presidency — he could even campaign or serve from a prison cell
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...dd40f5dbb67531

    And yet, people worship him like he's some sort of God. What will they think up next?
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    Re: Here we go again...

    I think people look at the alternatives they are given and how both sides clearly hate and fear Trump. So I suspect for all but a few crazies Trump is just a rare opportunity to stick a thumb in the eye of the duopoly. It isn't that they believe Trump will act essentially differently, after all he did almost as much as Biden to back Ukraine against Russia contrary to the manufactured narrative about collusion.

    Trump at least spouts rhetoric about cleaning up our system rather than the steady barrage of condemnation and demands to bow down to authority from the established parties. Many Americans still believe in being Americans rather than vassals of a corporate centrally ruled State, and that includes a lot of first generation citizens who fled authoritarianism to come here.

    The culture wars have been really successful in obscuring the real issues and luring more lemmings off the cliff.

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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Well my only real point was that Fox News still carries messaging for the GOP. Presenting it in reference to the crypto scandal that profited the enabling and shielding Dems probably wasn't necessary. But you can see more like the "Firing Pelosi" stories they are airing too.

    If it makes you feel better Fox seems to be siding with the Romneycrats though and shying away from Trump.
    I was alluding to that...I think Murdock/Fox broadcasting is distancing themselves from Trump and his "extremists". "extremists" is being thrown about a lot lately.
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    I think people look at the alternatives they are given and how both sides clearly hate and fear Trump. So I suspect for all but a few crazies Trump is just a rare opportunity to stick a thumb in the eye of the duopoly. It isn't that they believe Trump will act essentially differently, after all he did almost as much as Biden to back Ukraine against Russia contrary to the manufactured narrative about collusion.

    Trump at least spouts rhetoric about cleaning up our system rather than the steady barrage of condemnation and demands to bow down to authority from the established parties. Many Americans still believe in being Americans rather than vassals of a corporate centrally ruled State, and that includes a lot of first generation citizens who fled authoritarianism to come here.

    The culture wars have been really successful in obscuring the real issues and luring more lemmings off the cliff.
    Lemmings...HA! Most people have done well. You've never suggested what some alternative would look like. Misery, would be my guess. There are struggles. There will ALWAYS be struggles. It's easy to complain, and nearly impossible to come up with some constructive policy that won't gore somebody else's ox.
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Garland names Jack Smith special counsel for Trump criminal probes
    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/1...robes-00069451

    The republicans are going after Biden's son and the DOJ for starters.
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/1...robes-00069451

    The republicans are going after Biden's son and the DOJ for starters.
    This seems to be a common thing now a days, each time the House majority changes. It must be basically for show, to prove to the people that elected you that your doing your job. Not sure we've really got much benefit from them. But it does make good press. I know, I've gotten to cynical.

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    Re: Here we go again...

    They don't have a platform, and haven't for a long time. At one point, they were all about going after the Affordable Care Act...right up until they realized they couldn't even get their own party on board. A decade or so back, it was about privatizing social security. You don't hear much about that anymore. Much further back, Republicans were deficit hawks, a position I find rather appealing...but they haven't just gone silent on that, they've vocally gone the other way. To some extent, they have a point there, but it's not a viable position. I have no idea what the Republican's stand for anymore, aside from fairly unfocused anger. When given power, they don't get anything done. In opposition, it's just the anger.
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    Re: Here we go again...

    I think the problem you are having is that Romney-camp Republicans are essentially the same on policy as Clinton-camp Democrats. The old bi-polar spectrum just isn't selling any more. And on more fine-grained scales with more dimensions there has been a lot of realignment.

    It would be tough to draw because there are now lots of "poles" and probably at least four of significance: the political duopoly, Americans, far-left cranks, and far-right cranks.

  29. #29
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    Re: Here we go again...

    A single linear political spectrum has never been very accurate, and Romney-camp Republicans are certainly pretty similar to Clinton-camp Democrats, but we have a system that only has two parties. It isn't some rule, it's just the nature of the system. When there can be only one winner, there can be only two viable parties...or one, but at least we have two. Third parties have not been successful since Lincoln. Any other significant third party has ended up being coopted by one of the existing parties, and it's pretty likely to stay that way.

    There are other systems that would allow for more parties, we just don't have such a system. Selecting the president via a parliamentary system could do it, especially if there was some kind of "get x percent of the vote and get a seat" system. In the system we have, though, no third party is likely to do really well. The existing parties are more likely to switch places on one issue or another, as they have in the past, rather than let one simply fade out in favor of another.
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    Re: Here we go again...

    As far from perfect (which might be in the eye of the beholder) the system is, we could do worse (and might) through too much tinkering. Not that tinkering hasn't been going on from the start.

    The US still takes in large numbers of immigrants and integrates them (yes, with some pains). It remains a first choice of many wishing to flee their homelands even today. While the record for things like military interventions is far from angelic I shudder to think what other regime formats might be doing with the same wealth and strength. People love to forget how black the ledger of Europe is on that front, and East Asia has a pretty nasty history as well.

    That doesn't mean there isn't a ton of room for improvement, but there is an awful lot worth holding onto.

    But I'm getting tired of the twisted narratives like claims that income inequality is the result of white males existing, while giving a pass to the corporate class and lavishing praise on its minions in the political sphere.

  31. #31
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    Re: Here we go again...

    I agree with everything you said there.

    Change is incremental. We seem to always be getting better, and yet there is still so far to go...

    It's not like we aren't making improvements, but we also slide in other areas. We've certainly let corporations get a bit too big for our own good. We have some significant problems with unfettered spending on political races. We have some solvable problems on gerrymandering. And we have some issues regarding manufacturing that we might end up improving almost by accident. There are plenty of other things.

    One thing I have always said about the US is that we don't do well when we think we're on top. If we don't feel threatened, we seem to get pretty sloppy.
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    Re: Here we go again...

    I mean Soros, the Jew squealer of Jews to the Nazis is donating to the Democrats.
    Whoah! OK, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that this was a language related hiccup but that came across as extremely antisemitic. Do not go down that that road.
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    Re: Here we go again...

    I'm getting tired of the twisted narratives like claims that income inequality is the result of white males existing
    I don't think that is the narrative though. Well, perhaps from some but they're a tiny minority - you get crackpots on every side. The actual narrative is that White Males do not experience many of the disadvantages that other demographics experience and, as a result, are often blind to the effect of those disadvantages.

    Where blame is assigned it usually is to the corporate class, or at least, the ruling/governing/influential class. I suspect we're talking about the same thing here. This is what people mean about when they refer to systemic racism. I think when people hear that they often receive it as an accusation against the individual but it's not, it's a criticism against the system that has been created for us all to live in.

    Where I probably do agree with you is that the language used by the left can often be unhelpful. I touched on "systemic racism". I think the word racism in that phrase is accurate (it refers to a phenomenon that's driven by race) but unhelpful. It comes across as accusatory rather than explanatory. Similarly I dislike the phrases like "white male privilege". It identifies privilege rather than disadvantage as the problem. Privilege is great! I've got it and would like everyone else to have it too. The phrase leads us to a mindset that focusses on solving privilege (which would look like pulling white men down) rather than disadvantage (which would look like helping non-white men or women up).

    I'd like to see us find better, more helpful language but, let's be honest, "White Male Privilege" is pithy. "Non-White Gender Non-Specific Disadvantage" is a hell of a mouthful.
    Last edited by FunkyDexter; Nov 21st, 2022 at 06:45 AM.
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  34. #34
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    Whoah! OK, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that this was a language related hiccup but that came across as extremely antisemitic. Do not go down that that road.
    I thought that at first, but I think what he was suggesting is that George Soros, who is Jewish, sold out other Jews to the Nazis. That sound like something out of the propaganda playbook, but especially so considering that George Soros was only 14 when the Nazis were defeated.
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I thought that at first, but I think what he was suggesting is that George Soros, who is Jewish, sold out other Jews to the Nazis. That sound like something out of the propaganda playbook, but especially so considering that George Soros was only 14 when the Nazis were defeated.
    There is a thread of truth to it...it was just twisted horribly

    This is the ugliest conspiracy theory about Soros. In a “60 Minutes” segment in 1998, the interviewer, Steve Kroft, asked Soros about any “feeling of guilt” he may have carried as a survivor of the Holocaust, because, “as hundreds of thousands of Jews were being shipped off to the Nazi death camps, a 13-year-old George Soros accompanied his phony godfather on his rounds, confiscating property from the Jews.” In the interview, Soros says that he did not participate in the confiscation and was merely brought along. Nevertheless, fans of this conspiracy theory, including Rosanne Barr, have tweeted that Soros was a Nazi who had turned in fellow Jews to be murdered. In June, social media users circulated a photo of a young man in a Nazi uniform and claimed it was a picture of Soros.

    In actuality Soros, whose father, Tivadar, had previously changed the family’s last name from Schwartz to Soros so as to be less obviously Jewish in an increasingly anti-Semitic Budapest, disguised himself as a Christian during the Second World War. His father procured identity papers for his own family and others. As Soros pointed out, the man with whom young Soros was hiding out did once bring him along when he went to take inventory of a Jewish person’s house, but Soros was not involved in the confiscation of Jewish goods. Likewise, while Soros was, as a student, sent to run errands at the Judenrat, a council of Jews whom the Nazis forced to do their bidding, he did not round up Jewish people. In fact, per Soros’s recollection, when he was given a list of names, with instructions to tell them to report to a location from which they would be deported, his father said he should not tell them to go.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...e0d_story.html
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  36. #36
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    Re: Here we go again...

    I thought that at first
    Yeah, it probably was my misunderstanding and I've never seen Sappy express antisemitic views so it was quite surprising to me to see him post it. I'm happy to take back that challenge. I'd never heard that particular conspiracy theory before.

    I will say (without pointing this at Sappy) that A LOT of the criticism I see pointed at Soros is definitely antisemitic. This conspiracy theory, now that I do know about it, would fall firmly into that category for me.
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  37. #37
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Of course it's anti-Semitic. Soros is the stand in for all Jews in the lingo of the dog whistle.
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  38. #38
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    Re: Here we go again...

    That's nonsense.

  39. #39
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    I'm getting tired of the twisted narratives like claims that income inequality is the result of white males existing
    I suspect that I'm not the only one who sees the irony here.

  40. #40
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    That's nonsense.
    What is nonsense?
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