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Thread: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

  1. #81

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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    The idea that she simply "said a bad word in a moment of frustration" is ridiculous. People who aren't racist generally don't say "I f*****g hate n*****s" no matter how frustrated they get.
    I can believe she said it in a moment of anger. I can also believe it wasn't necessarily because she's a racist. It could be a lack of emotional control, something I'm familiar with.

    Hopefully I can explain. I loved my wife, but we were both strong willed people and sometimes this lead to major arguing. Once in a while it would reach a point where we would lose emotional control and it was no longer about trying to prove our points but what we could say that would hurt the other the most. I've also done this with other people. My goal is not to reason but to be as hurtful as possible. I guess you could say I "snap". I always regret it but you can't change what's been said.

    That being said, this lady shouldn't be a police officer. Because she either has emotional control issues or she really is a racist.

  2. #82
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    Reasonable points.

    Being a big, hairy, and pretty genial guy, people seem to expect me to feel the same as they do. For that reason, I'm unfortunately all too well aware that racism is alive and well in the US. Some people have just learned to filter their speech better than others. So, it could be a lack of a filter in a moment of tension, but at that moment of tension, what came out was what was there under the surface.

    If you say something hurtful for the purpose of maximum hurt with your words, that's one thing. If you aren't talking to somebody else, who ARE you talking to? Isn't that just a case of the mask slipping?
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  3. #83

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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Reasonable points.

    Being a big, hairy, and pretty genial guy, people seem to expect me to feel the same as they do. For that reason, I'm unfortunately all too well aware that racism is alive and well in the US. Some people have just learned to filter their speech better than others. So, it could be a lack of a filter in a moment of tension, but at that moment of tension, what came out was what was there under the surface.

    If you say something hurtful for the purpose of maximum hurt with your words, that's one thing. If you aren't talking to somebody else, who ARE you talking to? Isn't that just a case of the mask slipping?
    I don't know if your comment were in regard to my post but I'll go ahead and make a couple comments.

    I would consider myself a non practicing racist. I was raised a racist by racist and all the people we knew were the same. It wasn't hate racism, it was more of "those people" racism. You need to understand, I was raised in the country and very small towns. All the way through high school I don't think there was one black student or teacher. So I would say my racism is based in ignorance. And you can't just make 25yrs of ideology go away over night. So I'm a work in progress, though I better hurry up because I'm running out of years. So yes I have to filter myself, not because deep down inside I think I'm better or they are bad. But because I can say offensive things without even knowing it. So if you want to think of it as a mask, I'm fine with that.

    If you aren't talking to somebody else, who ARE you talking to?
    I don't understand what your asking.
    Last edited by wes4dbt; Aug 6th, 2022 at 08:21 PM.

  4. #84
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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    What I meant was that she wasn't talking to somebody else with the intent to hurt them, so it wasn't some deliberate choice of words. It was a candid comment.
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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    What I meant was that she wasn't talking to somebody else with the intent to hurt them, so it wasn't some deliberate choice of words. It was a candid comment.
    Oh, OK

    I didn't realize you were talking about the police officer.

  6. #86
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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    I was raised a racist by racist and all the people we knew were the same. It wasn't hate racism, it was more of "those people" racism.
    To be honest, I think that that is the most prevalent form of racism. That's why so many racists don't think they're racists. They don't actively hate black people or other racial minorities, so they don't think they're racist. They'll quite happily racially profile people though, e.g. police stopping and searching black people at a higher rate than white people despite no more provocation. They're not necessarily thinking "I hate black people so I'm going to ruin this black person's day". They may be thinking "black people are more likely to commit a crime so I'll play the percentages and detain more black people" or they may not even actively thinking anything but just perceive a black person as suspicious when they would if it were a white person in exactly the same circumstances. This implicit racism, as I call it, doesn't seem like a big deal to those white people who practice it but, to the black people who experience it, it feels pretty much the same as explicit racism.

    In the case of this police officer, I have to agree with Shaggy. This seems very much like a case of the mask slipping to me. It doesn't really seem like much of an excuse to say that it was a meaningless slip in a moment of frustration to me. This is a police officer who is on the street, with a gun, likely to find herself in high pressure situations, often involving black people. How can black people feel safe knowing that she might have a similar slip while holding a gun on one of them at some point. Also, as I mentioned earlier, in a statement from the police department, they said that her saying it surprised even herself. I simply do not buy that because I listened to the recording and she said it at least twice. If you said something that you thought you shouldn't and were surprised by it, you wouldn't say it again. Do I think that she's a raging racist, going to Klan meetings and hunting black people? No, I don't think she necessarily is. Do I think that black people would be justified to be afraid to encounter her on the street? Yes, I do.

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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    I can believe she said it in a moment of anger.
    I'm sure she did, but that doesn't mean that it's not what she really thinks.
    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    I can also believe it wasn't necessarily because she's a racist.
    I guess that depends what you mean by "racist". I don't think that you necessarily have to be actively trying to make the lives of racial minorities worse to be racist.
    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    It could be a lack of emotional control, something I'm familiar with.
    If it is then one really has to question her fitness to be patrolling the streets with a gun.

  8. #88

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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    I'm sure she did, but that doesn't mean that it's not what she really thinks.

    I guess that depends what you mean by "racist". I don't think that you necessarily have to be actively trying to make the lives of racial minorities worse to be racist.

    If it is then one really has to question her fitness to be patrolling the streets with a gun.
    I think it also depends on narrowly or broad you want to define racism. If you try, you'll be able to call most people racist. I've met some people that truly ( and naturally) see all people the same. But that's been a minority. Most of us just do our best to be respectful to everyone. Then there's the other minority that are upset because they can't be openly racist. I think the first minority is growing and the second is shrinking. So that's good.

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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    I think it also depends on narrowly or broad you want to define racism. If you try, you'll be able to call most people racist. I've met some people that truly ( and naturally) see all people the same. But that's been a minority. Most of us just do our best to be respectful to everyone. Then there's the other minority that are upset because they can't be openly racist. I think the first minority is growing and the second is shrinking. So that's good.
    I don't disagree. I often say that I think that almost everyone is racist, from the perspective that, if pushed hard enough, they will choose to favour their own race over another. It is part of human nature to favour those like you. The questions then become how hard does a person need to be pushed in order for this phenomenon to manifest and are they self-aware enough to recognise that this can happen subconsciously and that one needs to consciously act against it in order to treat others with equality? It seems to me that, in the case of this police officer, the answer is likely "not enough" on both counts.

    In my opinion, this is one of the differences between left-wing thinking and right-wing thinking. The further left a person tends to be, the more they are aware of their own capacity and that of others to be racist and the more they will try to consciously compensate for that, possibly to the point of overcompensating. The further right a person tends to be, the more they are likely to deny that this capacity exists at all but especially in themselves and the more they allow implicit bias to adversely affect the lives of others.

  10. #90
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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    Racism.
    I guess US had it's part with it from day1 and as they are a mixture of people, I don't see a light at the end of the tunnel.
    I think the last few years you have an opposite racism.Black life matters and such. But since I don't live there I might be wrong.
    So racism in Greece. To start with, we are not racists.We welcome every kind of people.
    With that said, our previous and current government traitors (born our of a stock bond went sour) brought , or allowed, more than 2 mil people of Asian non Cristian ethnicity to pass the borders(we are 10 mil proud (..and idiot) Greeks in total). That and the fact that, p.e. last week we had more than 10 woman abuse,rape,kill kill kill, by thoooose people are turning the racism on.
    Now the traitors in the parliament passed an anti racist law. So it is racism to blasphemy Allah and you can go to jail but it's NOT to do the same with Jesus, you are fine if you do that. It is racism to kill a Muslim person and you get "stoned" but it's not if an immigrant kills a white person.
    Lately a woman was murdered by a Pakistan immigrant and one had attempted rape from a Morocco-ian. The news reported the incident calling them as "A Killer" and "A Rapist", they never relieved their ethnicity. After some remaining anti government papers relieved the whole thing they started using their ethnicity.
    So in short and because it's seaside time, here the government is racist against aboriginals and friendly on any other non christian ethnicity.So if the traitor government is racist against Greeks I think it's a small price to pay to be racist against the government and hope they all get poor (andotherstuffthatmaybanmesoIwantelaborate) .
    Also I think there is a word, well 2 words: multicivilization. Check it out, I won't elaborate as it's on the no no covid side of the moon.
    Last edited by sapator; Aug 7th, 2022 at 04:07 AM. Reason: A mod told me to be racist against vaxbies but I'm just sympathetic. That is after I burn them going after my braaaiiinss
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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    I said it in a way of, If you harm a black person they you are in the fire, if you harm a white then you are clear.
    Again, don't live there so you know better.
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  12. #92
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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    It seems that 52% of Americans agreed with me in 2018. Perhaps there is hope for America after all.
    I also have to question how much many (most?) of those people really know about what their actual issues are. There were the recent "controversies" about Mr Potato Head becoming just Potato Head and the change to the green M&M's footwear, which were completely manufactured by right-wing media and would have been noticed or cared about by virtually no one if they hadn't been told to be outraged by "the woke mob". I just watched a video about Cracker Barrel (which is cheese here in Australia, but is apparently a fast-food chain in the US) introducing Impossible Sausage (plant-based meat replacement) to their menu and some of the vitriolic comments people were leaving, including "congratulations on getting woke and going broke". A significant chunk of what this 52% of Americans are so concerned about is this stupid stuff that either makes no difference anyway or has a perfectly logical explanation that doesn't include being PC at all, e.g. Potato Head was going to come with male and female components so they decided that specifically calling it Mr wasn't really appropriate. You'd think that the same people who lost their minds when Harry Styles wore a dress on a magazine cover would be happy that a toy with female parts wasn't going to be called Mr. It's almost like they just want to be outraged and it doesn't really matter what it's about or whether it's consistent or makes sense at all.

  13. #93
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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    I said it in a way of, If you harm a black person they you are in the fire, if you harm a white then you are clear.
    If black people are being specifically targeted because they're black while white people are not specifically targeted because they're white, don't you think that that is a problem worth addressing? Some white people in America like to point out that US police kill more white people per year than black people. Those people seem to ignore the fact that, per capita, black people are killed at a significantly higher rate. I mean they literally ignore it, i.e. whenever I've seen it brought up in conversation or brought it up myself, I have never once seen it even acknowledged by such a person. It's not just police shootings either. Black people are far more likely to be stopped and searched while driving and, once arrested, are more likely to be convicted and receive longer sentences for the same crimes. Given the statistics, unless you have evidence to the contrary, you'd have to conclude that the US justice system is biased against black people. That is, unless you are motivated to not come to that conclusion, regardless of evidence. The only other explanation I can think of is that black people are simply more criminal than white people. You rarely hear anyone actually say that but I'm very confident that that is what a lot of people tell themselves to justify not coming to the obvious conclusion.

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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Porter View Post
    Sapator, Black Lives Matter doesn't mean no other race matters.
    Then why do they immediately attack anyone who dares to say the words "all lives matter?"

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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    Quote Originally Posted by homer13j View Post
    Then why do they immediately attack anyone who dares to say the words "all lives matter?"

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    Because they are the people distorting the meaning of the "Black Lives Matter" moment.
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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    Quote Originally Posted by homer13j View Post
    Then why do they immediately attack anyone who dares to say the words "all lives matter?"

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    My guess is because they're the same people that post meme's like that.

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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/d_gz8rhXh0I

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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/oHZe61KmSTQ

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  19. #99
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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    Quote Originally Posted by homer13j View Post
    Then why do they immediately attack anyone who dares to say the words "all lives matter?"
    There's no reason that this should need to be explained to an intelligent person, because the reason is obvious. I'll explain it to you.

    It's fairly obvious that people who say "all lives matter" are trying to say that those who say "black lives matter" are actually saying "ONLY black lives matter" or "black lives matter MORE THAN OTHER LIVES" and that is simply not the case. Before "all lives matter", many of those people were saying "blue lives matter". Does that mean that those people think that "ONLY blue lives matter" or "blue lives matter MORE THAN OTHER LIVES"? Of course it doesn't, so their implication re "black lives matter" is an obvious lie. "Black Lives Matter" is just a slogan. Slogans rarely tell the whole story but intelligent people are able to see the whole story, if they are prep0ared to try. The whole story is that all lives matter equally, yet America treats black lives like they matter less. If black lives are the ones most at risk then it makes perfect sense to place extra focus on protecting black lives, which is the point of "Black Lives Matter". When we say "black lives matter", we're not saying "ONLY black lives matter" or 'black lives matter MORE THAN OTHER LIVES". We're saying "black lives matter JUST AS MUCH AS OTHER LIVES SO LET'S TREAT THEM THAT WAY". People who say "all lives matter" are basically denying that there's a problem in the first place or, quite possibly, that black people are the problem in the first place. That is why those people are criticised.

    Now do you understand?

  20. #100
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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    @Niya, it occurs to me that it's somewhat ironic that you originally brought up Jordan Peterson as a positive example while recently railing against virtue signalling. This is the same Jordan Peterson who originally came to prominence by making false claims about a proposed change to Canadian law, saying "if they fine me I won't pay and if they jail me I'll go on a hunger strike". Notably, no one has been jailed on the basis of that law, as was pointed out by many at the time of Peterson's lies. More recently, he has said that he would rather die than delete a tweet that misgenders and dead-names Elliot Page. This was, by the way, a tweet that he posted after claiming that he was leaving Twitter after being criticised for declaring that a particular model was not beautiful and then complaining that others were authoritarian for telling him what to think about her.

    It seems odd that, as far as I can tell, actual virtue-signalling happens at pretty much the same rate for those on the right, the left and smugly in the centre, yet it's pretty much always those on the right and in the centre accusing those on the left of doing it. It's almost like, when someone on the left indicates that they care about people other than themselves, others want to pretend that they're doing so to impress those other people rather than because they actually care about them. In that case, the accusers can disregard the problem being highlighted because, if the concern isn't genuine, the problem mustn't be either. It's a straight-up ad hominem fallacy: I don't have to listen to what you're saying because you're saying it for the wrong reasons.

    This is a very interesting video about Jordan Peterson. It's 3 hours long, so not from the feint of heart, but it is entertaining in and of itself and you can watch just a bit of it and get the idea.

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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    I'm not sure where these walls of tailored boilerplate come from now that UseNet is all but closed down. Maybe Reddit?

    There are lots of podcasts and such out there now to counter the BS. Lex Fridman has a good one that covers a wide arrays of guests and topics. He also releases shorter segments to his "Clips" channel on YouTube:

    https://www.youtube.com/c/LexClips/featured

    Lots of his stuff is software related, since that's his field.

  22. #102
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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    I'm not sure where these walls of tailored boilerplate come from now that UseNet is all but closed down. Maybe Reddit?
    What exactly are you referring to? Maybe I'm wrong but it seems that you may be suggesting that I have copied and pasted text that someone else has written rather than actually typing out my own position/opinion. If that's so, it's just another example of what I've already pointed several times as an ad hominem fallacy, i.e. you don't think you have address the points I've raised because they're not really points that I'm raising. Please correct me if I'm wrong because that would be utterly untrue, although it would be awfully convenient for the likes of you.

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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    Pretty funny whinging about "ad hominem" this, that, and the other thing continuing the personal attacks you consistently engage in. "The likes of me" huh?

    Invest in a dictionary. You might be surprised.

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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Pretty funny whinging about "ad hominem" this, that, and the other thing continuing the personal attacks you consistently engage in. "The likes of me" huh?

    Invest in a dictionary. You might be surprised.
    I see you didn't actually answer my question, as per usual. Dodge, dodge, dodge. For the record, I have no issue with ad hominem attacks. I make them and I can take them. When I make them though, I generally give a reason, e.g. "you're an idiot because...". If you care to read the words I actually wrote, I was not pointing out ad hominem ATTACKS, but ad hominem FALLACIES. If you want to accuse me of virtue-signalling, I don't really care. It's water off a duck's back. If you justify ignoring the points I raise because of this claimed virtue-signalling then I have a problem with that.

    So, are you going to address my question? Were you asserting that my posts were copied from elsewhere or not? If you weren't then why not just say so? That would be the end of it. If you were then have the courage of your convictions and stand by the assertion. If you simply refuse to answer the question then I think that the only logical conclusion is that the answer is "yes" but you're not prepared to admit it because you know that you don't have anything to back it up.

    Yes, the likes of you. You're the "smugly in the centre" I was referring to earlier. There are people who like to declare themselves centrists like that inherently means that they're more reasonable. The idea that the best solution to a problem is always in the middle has no basis in fact. In many cases, it's simply intellectual laziness. To be frank, it's virtue-signalling. You're not good because you're a centrist. You're good if you have good ideas/positions. If you can't offer actual solutions to actual problems, you're no good to anybody. I'm also slightly curious what the likes of you think the centre actually is. Be assured, what Americans consider to be the political centre is well right of where most of the rest of the Western world sees it. As an example, Joe Biden seems no further left than one of our recent Australian right-wing prime ministers, and yet there are people in the US who consider themselves serious political commentators calling him a socialist. To much of the rest of the world, an American centrist is a conservative and an American conservative is a right-wing extremist.

  25. #105
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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    You need to understand, I was raised in the country and very small towns. All the way through high school I don't think there was one black student or teacher.
    I think it also depends on narrowly or broad you want to define racism. If you try, you'll be able to call most people racist. I've met some people that truly ( and naturally) see all people the same. But that's been a minority. I've met some people that truly (and naturally) see all people the same. But that's been a minority
    Yeah it really makes a difference where you grow up, I grew up in Manchester in the UK and went to a school that was very mixed with a lot of Black and Asian kids, many became my friends from the age of 11 years old. Racism is generally learned behaviour but its a lot more difficult to learn when you are in classes, playing sports and growing up with kids from different races. When people are your friends, peers, and you have shared experiences with them what colour they are or religion they follow doesn't seem so important.

    Not that everyone who has my experience will automatically have the same views but in general I think it it changes the society around you.

    Small towns in the UK can be very similar, may of them have few non white people living in them there is still a lot of racism around. I once lived for a short time in a town called Leek when I was younger and someone there once tried to tell me that "Apartheid in South Africa was a good idea wrongly executed", I was the only person in the pub at the time that said anything back to him I was shocked.
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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    Then why do they immediately attack anyone who dares to say the words "all lives matter?"
    I heard a good metaphor to answer this. If you ran to your neighbour screaming "Help, help, my house is on fire" and your neighbours response was to shrug and say "All houses matter", you might right surmise that your neighbour was a bit of a dick. All lives absolutely matter but black ones are being ended in disproportionate numbers by the police. Their house is on fire, ours isn't.

    So that makes the motivation behind the statement "All lives matter" highly questionable. It could be a good faith statement about the concern we all feel for our fellow man... but it's more likely an attempt to undermine the message behind black lives matter.
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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    Quote Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers View Post
    Small towns in the UK can be very similar, may of them have few non white people living in them there is still a lot of racism around. I once lived for a short time in a town called Leek when I was younger and someone there once tried to tell me that "Apartheid in South Africa was a good idea wrongly executed", I was the only person in the pub at the time that said anything back to him I was shocked.
    I have been to Leek (many, many years ago), and the only thing I find surprising is that somebody challenged him on his viewpoint!

    To put Leek in context I once knew somebody who applied for an IT job in Leek, they rejected him when he said he wasn't willing to relocate to Leek if he got the job. He wasn't going to be on call and lived in a town less than 15 miles / under 45 minutes commute away.

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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    Quote Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers View Post
    Racism is generally learned behaviour
    As are many (most?) prejudices, which is why the whole "don't say gay" rubbish in Florida is so insidious. It's pretty clear that the aim is to prevent children from seeing, hearing or reading that being LGBTQ+ is OK until they've had a chance to teach them that it's bad. At the very least, they'll remain ignorant of it until they are at an age where anything other tends to be viewed as suspect at best, so they'll assume that it must be bad because they'd have already heard about it and that it's OK if that was in fact the case. The religious right and conservatives in general know that, if children see LGBTQ+ people represented as normal early on in their development, it will be that much harder to convince them that they're evil later. Much as growing up with other ethnic groups, if you already see people as people, it's harder to condemn them for some trait that really doesn't affect you or your interactions with them.

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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    Yeah it really makes a difference where you grow up, I grew up in Manchester in the UK and went to a school that was very mixed with a lot of Black and Asian kids, many became my friends from the age of 11 years old. Racism is generally learned behaviour but its a lot more difficult to learn when you are in classes, playing sports and growing up with kids from different races. When people are your friends, peers, and you have shared experiences with them what colour they are or religion they follow doesn't seem so important.
    I agree. It wasn't till I was 25yrs old when I moved to a large city with a multicultural environment that it dawned on me I was a racist. I was having a conversation with a couple of people a had recently met, I used the term "colored person" and they basically laughed and asked what color. I thought that was the polite term to use. I was definitely a hick. So, I don't condemn people just for being a racist. I do condemn any hateful racism or bigotry.

    So that makes the motivation behind the statement "All lives matter" highly questionable. It could be a good faith statement about the concern we all feel for our fellow man... but it's more likely an attempt to undermine the message behind black lives matter.
    It could be they don't believe there is a problem. In this case judging by his comments and the meme he posted, he actually believes that whites are the ones being discriminated against.

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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    I agree. It wasn't till I was 25yrs old when I moved to a large city with a multicultural environment that it dawned on me I was a racist. I was having a conversation with a couple of people a had recently met, I used the term "colored person" and they basically laughed and asked what color. I thought that was the polite term to use. I was definitely a hick. So, I don't condemn people just for being a racist. I do condemn any hateful racism or bigotry.



    It could be they don't believe there is a problem. In this case judging by his comments and the meme he posted, he actually believes that whites are the ones being discriminated against.
    Like someone else here I grew up in a very racist family that included not just blacks but everyone not white. My wake up call was in the military and I like to think I "evolved". However, I would be lying to myself to say deep down inside that prejudice isn't alive and well. I'll probably go to my grave with it.

    I was having lunch with some co-workers that included several Asian-Americans back in the 80s. I referred to them as Orientals to their faces out of ignorance not malice. That was my "colored person" moment.
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  31. #111
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    @Niya, it occurs to me that it's somewhat ironic that you originally brought up Jordan Peterson as a positive example while recently railing against virtue signalling. This is the same Jordan Peterson who originally came to prominence by making false claims about a proposed change to Canadian law, saying "if they fine me I won't pay and if they jail me I'll go on a hunger strike". Notably, no one has been jailed on the basis of that law, as was pointed out by many at the time of Peterson's lies. More recently, he has said that he would rather die than delete a tweet that misgenders and dead-names Elliot Page. This was, by the way, a tweet that he posted after claiming that he was leaving Twitter after being criticised for declaring that a particular model was not beautiful and then complaining that others were authoritarian for telling him what to think about her.

    It seems odd that, as far as I can tell, actual virtue-signalling happens at pretty much the same rate for those on the right, the left and smugly in the centre, yet it's pretty much always those on the right and in the centre accusing those on the left of doing it. It's almost like, when someone on the left indicates that they care about people other than themselves, others want to pretend that they're doing so to impress those other people rather than because they actually care about them. In that case, the accusers can disregard the problem being highlighted because, if the concern isn't genuine, the problem mustn't be either. It's a straight-up ad hominem fallacy: I don't have to listen to what you're saying because you're saying it for the wrong reasons.

    This is a very interesting video about Jordan Peterson. It's 3 hours long, so not from the feint of heart, but it is entertaining in and of itself and you can watch just a bit of it and get the idea.
    You still don't get it. You're still digging at the surface level. The reason issue is that you and many left leaning people are puppets to leftist masters dominating media and tech. They tell you what to think, who to hate, why to hate and none of you ever question it. You just accept it without thought. I mean for example, you just used the phrase "dead naming". 20 years ago, is that a phrase you ever used in a conversation? I'm guessing the answer is no. This is just another phrased introduced to the woke lexicon of the left that leftists like you have adopted mindlessly. They are training you guys like dogs, attack dogs to be more specific. This is why I love people like Jordan Peterson, Andrew Tate and perhaps Candace Owens. I'd have to look more into Candace but the little I've listened to her so far has me impressed. These people are just a few that refused to be programmed by hateful leftists. They see right through the whole thing and are trying to wake people up to it.

    Let me tell you what leftism is really about and it's really quite simple. Never before in human history have the nerds, weirdos, outcasts, the socially awkward, the feeble and weak have had this much power in society and woke leftism is them taking their collective revenge out on the "cool kids". The problem is that these people have not come to terms with the pain in their lives like social and romantic rejection, bullying or being the butt of jokes and now that they they have power they feel this need to oppress the people that they felt oppressed by and all of you are just going along with it. All this woke leftist garbage is just role reversal between the bullies and the bullied. This is not how a healthy society is built. You guys need to stop carrying their water and think for yourselves. Don't live your life through their pain.
    Last edited by Niya; Aug 9th, 2022 at 01:52 PM.
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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    Like someone else here I grew up in a very racist family that included not just blacks but everyone not white. My wake up call was in the military and I like to think I "evolved". However, I would be lying to myself to say deep down inside that prejudice isn't alive and well. I'll probably go to my grave with it.
    Me too.

    I was having lunch with some co-workers that included several Asian-Americans back in the 80s. I referred to them as Orientals to their faces out of ignorance not malice. That was my "colored person" moment.
    Funny story (if you can look past the racism). A good friend of mine (we shared a house for 4 1/2yrs) would call Asians much worse things than Orientals . He ended up marrying a girl that was Chinese. What's even funnier is when he met the her family, some of them were prejudice against him because he is disabled. Live and learn, they've been married for over 30yrs now.

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    Frenzied Member PlausiblyDamp's Avatar
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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    You still don't get it. You're still digging at the surface level. The reason issue is that you and many left leaning people are puppets to leftist masters dominating media and tech. They tell you what to think, who to hate, why to hate and none of you ever question it. You just accept it without thought. I mean for example, you just used the phrase "dead naming". 20 years ago, is that a phrase you ever used in a conversation? I'm guessing the answer is no. This is just another phrased introduced to the woke lexicon of the left that leftists like you have adopted it mindlessly. They are training you guys like dogs, attack dogs to be more specific. This is why I love people like Jordan Peterson, Andrew Tate and perhaps Candace Owens. I'd have to look more into Candace but the little I've listened to her so far has me impressed. These people are just a few that refused to be programmed by hateful leftists. They see right through the whole thing and are trying to wake people up to it.
    So you are saying that a lack of awareness and understanding was a good thing? 20 years ago people didn't use that phrase because transgender people were vilified and treated as if it was a mental illness. As society understands things more then of course language evolves in step with what we understand.

    There was a time when it was considered acceptable to segregate based on skin colour, are you saying progress there was a bad thing? When Jules Verne wrote Mysterious Island it was considered acceptable to portray the black slave as being only marginally more evolved than an Orangutan, I would imagine that kind of comparison wouldn't be considered acceptable today - society and language has moved on.

    If a person who is transitioning (or has transitioned) wants to put their past life behind them, adopting a new name to match their true identity then why should they be forced to answer to their old name? A phrase like dead naming" is a simple shorthand way of expressing their old life is behind them, and they have moved forward.

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    Let me tell you what leftism is really about and it's really quite simple. Never before in human history have the nerds, weirdos, outcasts, the socially awkward, the feeble and weak have had this much power in society and woke leftism is them taking their collective revenge out on the "cool kids". The problem is that these people have not come to terms with the pain in their lives like social and romantic rejection, bullying or being the butt of jokes and now that they they have power they feel this need to oppress the people that they felt oppressed by and all of you are just going along with it. All this woke leftist garbage is just role reversal between the bullies and the bullied. This is not how a healthy society is built. You guys need to stop carrying their water and think for yourselves. Don't live your life through their pain.
    That isn't how I would perceive the left, it about acceptance and fairness - not oppression. Telling the people who have historically been the oppressors that they need to stop being the oppressors, that their bullying attitude etc. are no longer acceptable is not oppressing them. If someone feels they are oppressed because they can no longer insult and abuse a person because of their gender, sexual orientation, skin colour, or religious belief then perhaps this person was just an ignorant bully who needed to be told their attitude is wrong. Being educated is not the same as being oppressed.

  34. #114
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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    You still don't get it.
    No, it's on you. Nobody fully 'gets' any other point of view, even for those who agree with them. We all come from unique points of view and get there via unique paths. Your attempt to paint everybody on the left with one brush is as hopelessly wrong as anything you accuse anybody else of.
    Let me tell you what leftism is really about and it's really quite simple. Never before in human history have the nerds, weirdos, outcasts, the socially awkward, the feeble and weak have had this much power in society and woke leftism is them taking their collective revenge out on the "cool kids".
    Funny, that's why I feel that the C-family of languages is so predominant, these days.

    However, it's also objectively not true. For one thing, they always existed, and weren't always persecuted. We know of some pretty stark examples where they were, but there are plenty of cultures where they simply weren't. Another point is that there isn't any collective revenge. I agree that it's a terrible thing to force you to be considerate or compassionate, but it's not something new. The only real difference is who is being asked, who is doing the asking, and what the subject is about.

    Don't live your life through their pain.
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    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    Quote Originally Posted by PlausiblyDamp View Post
    So you are saying that a lack of awareness and understanding was a good thing? 20 years ago people didn't use that phrase because transgender people were vilified and treated as if it was a mental illness.
    You have no idea how extremely insulting this is to people like me. My ancestors were lynched, raped with impunity, sprayed with water, had dogs set upon them, had their manhoods cut off by your ancestors and all of it sectioned implicitly by the state! How dare you compare this to someone calling you the wrong pronoun or criticizing the idea making up your own gender. The word "oppression" no longer has meaning as every leftist that gets his feelings hurt because someone disagreed with them claims to be oppressed. Let me spell it out loud and clear, these people are not oppressed! They are emotionally fragile children! That's all they are. They need to grow up and accept that not everyone will see the world the same way they do. No one's out there lynching transgenders for being what they are. Sure there might be the odd serial killer here or there doing such things but it's not systematic like the treatment of the Native-Americans or black people was in the past by the American government and public.

    I'd really appreciate it if people stop using the past pains and struggles of my ancestors and the ancestors of other formerly oppressed minority groups as justification to shut down criticism of ridiculous ideas. Saying that there are only 2 genders is not oppression! Telling some old otherkin weirdo that he is not an elf or a vampire is not oppression! Calling a MTF transgendered person "he" or "him" is not oppression! These are all differences of opinion, nothing more. Stop letting these butt-hurt emotionally stunted leftist nutjobs goad you into thinking that disagreeing with them is the same thing as being an oppressed minority. When they start lynching transgenders, gays, otherkin and "non-binary" people in the street, then we can have a conversation about tolerance and oppression. This whole thing just looks like a circus to me. Leftism is a joke. It's nothing more than weirdos and social outcasts using past examples of real oppression against formally disenfranchised groups like gays and black people as an excuse to lash out at their "high-school bullies" now that they have the power.

    Watch this 40 minute. Soak it up. See what real oppression looks like:-


    In this video, you have descriptions of entire families including young children, gleefully attending the public torture and execution of black people the same way we would attend a concert today. Your ancestors were brutal inhumane monsters. How in the hell can this even come close to someone using the wrong pronoun to refer to someone. It is absolutely ridiculous.

    Also, look at what Nazis used to do to gays:-
    https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/conte...he-nazi-regime
    The Nazi regime carried out a campaign against male homosexuality and persecuted gay men between 1933 and 1945. As part of this campaign, the Nazi regime closed gay bars and meeting places, dissolved gay associations, and shuttered gay presses. The Nazi regime also arrested and tried tens of thousands of gay men using Paragraph 175 of the German criminal code. Uncovering the histories of gay men during the Nazi era was difficult for much of the twentieth century because of continued prejudice against same-sex sexuality and the postwar German enforcement of Paragraph 175.
    I don't see anything in there about pronouns or other childish nonsense like that. It's about closing of businesses, police raids, concentration camps, trials...you know....real oppression. You guys need to wake up and stop letting these leftists program you into accepting their rubbish. Wake up!
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  36. #116
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    You have no idea how extremely insulting this is to people like me. My ancestors were lynched, raped with impunity, sprayed with water, had dogs set upon them, had their manhoods cut off by your ancestors and all of it sectioned implicitly by the state! How dare you compare this to someone calling you the wrong pronoun or criticizing the idea making up your own gender.
    Considering the violence that is still used against gays (declining, probably) or transgender (maybe declining), I think there's no problem daring to compare them. I remember somebody writing to Time magazine being offended that somebody had used the term Mr. for an African. That was a term of respect, and in his mind, it didn't belong for anybody other than white people. Similarly, you are taking umbrage at the minor case of what term is used for somebody and ignoring the violence that has characterized their past. It wasn't always implicitly sanctioned by the state, either, it was sometimes explicitly sanctioned by the state (see Alan Turing).

    So, yeah, I dare.

    I'd really appreciate it if people stop using the past pains and struggles of my ancestors and the ancestors of other formerly oppressed minority groups as justification to shut down criticism of ridiculous ideas
    .
    You first...or did you overlook the fact that you just used the past pains and struggles of your ancestors as justification to shut down criticism of a ridiculous idea.
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  37. #117
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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    That's Racist!
    What? All racists gather here? Are we having a racist pick-nick?
    ...
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  38. #118
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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    .
    You first...or did you overlook the fact that you just used the past pains and struggles of your ancestors as justification to shut down criticism of a ridiculous idea.
    This statement tells me you didn't understand a thing I said.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

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  39. #119
    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    You just accept it without thought.
    I'm not going to address anything else from the same post because it's all fruit of the poison tree. You have no idea how much thought I've put into anything. You simply assume that, because I don't agree with you, I can't possibly have come to my own considered opinion. There's that ad hominem fallacy again.

  40. #120
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    Re: Jan 6th rioter sentenced

    Comment removed
    Last edited by Peter Porter; Aug 9th, 2022 at 08:56 PM.

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