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Thread: Convert binary data to a valid Unicode string whitout wasting (much) space ❓

  1. #121
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    Re: Convert binary data to a valid Unicode string whitout wasting (much) space ❓

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    I'm thinking in writing an article about DoEvents like I already did about Twips/Pixels/DPI awareness, another difficult subject that even some most skilled programmers do not get it right, because I see it is something misunderstood even from very skilled programmers.



    That's only because you base your thinking on prejudices, but they clearly are afraid as it was the boogeyman.

    Olaf should had never say anything about whether I was using DoEvents or not, that had nothing to do with the database issue. He should had focused on his component, not in my code.
    The right question would had been: what situation could cause for my component to give that error?

    Someone with clarity could have asked about "if there is a DoEvents, what could had happened in the middle?", but that's it. Not to give any advice about not using DoEvents and such, that only evidence lack of understanding.
    He does not have to say anything about how I do my program just because I used his component for the database stuff.

    So, now because I had a problem regarding this database stuff, wqweto and anybody feel they have the right to criticize something based on prejudices?

    Let's be clear about things: the fact that I now used Olaf's RC6 has nothing to do with him saying how I have to do my program. He should limit his advices to the things that have to do with his component, not with other things.

    I quite sure that I have a lot more experience programming with DoEvents than (probably) anyone that participated in this thread. It could seem pedantic but that's the truth.

    Anyone with real understanding of an alleged issue would show with some lines of code where that big problem that they are talking about is. And not giving general advices against as it was the bogeyman.

    I have big esteem of wqweto and Olaf, but what is laughable to me is when people follow other people blindly.
    This is a programming forum. Olaf was providing programming advice. The fact that you are using his product means he can't offer programming advice as well? Seriously? That's just so laughably absurd.

    You are embarrassing yourself, period. Others might not want to chime in and say it, but I'm sure most readers of this thread are thinking it.

    If you want to keep getting useful help in this thread, you should probably outline what remaining unresolved issues you have encountered and provide code that can be used to reproduce the issue.

    Good luck.

  2. #122

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    Re: Convert binary data to a valid Unicode string whitout wasting (much) space ❓

    Quote Originally Posted by OptionBase1 View Post
    This is a programming forum. Olaf was providing programming advice. The fact that you are using his product means he can't offer programming advice as well? Seriously? That's just so laughably absurd.
    Advices are welcomed in general, and many times they have been helpful (other times), but not when the issue was clearly explained many times that it had nothing to do with DoEvents, and he still insist on the same thing over and over.
    It had been demonstrated that the problem was not DoEvents for anyone understanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by OptionBase1 View Post
    You are embarrassing yourself, period. Others might not want to chime in and say it, but I'm sure most readers of this thread are thinking it.
    You can be deceived in thinking this way but that's not what actually happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by OptionBase1 View Post
    If you want to keep getting useful help in this thread, you should probably outline what remaining unresolved issues you have encountered and provide code that can be used to reproduce the issue.

    Good luck.
    I currently don't have any unsolved issue (with my program).

    There are some issues that I see with the RC6 component, but I have to adapt to it with workarounds.
    I didn't dare to point them very explicitly because I didn't want to start another storm. And Olaf can decide how his component behaves, for right or wrong, it is his prerogative to decide whatever, and I don't see him very open to critique. There are at least two clear issues, that IMO the correct thing is to handle them differently.
    They have been already mentioned, he can decide whether to change something or not.

  3. #123
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    Re: Convert binary data to a valid Unicode string whitout wasting (much) space ❓

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    I currently don't have any unsolved issue (with my program).

    There are some issues that I see with the RC6 component, but I have to adapt to it with workarounds.

  4. #124
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    Re: Convert binary data to a valid Unicode string whitout wasting (much) space ❓

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    I'm thinking in writing an article about DoEvents like I already did about Twips/Pixels/DPI awareness, another difficult subject that even some most skilled programmers do not get it right, because I see it is something misunderstood even from very skilled programmers.
    I'd like to read it - if there's something groundbreaking to learn from you about DoEvents, then that would be great. I'm skeptical until I see something though.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    That's only because you base your thinking on prejudices, but they clearly are afraid as it was the boogeyman.
    That's not how I see it at all, From my perspective, it appears that you are the one "thinking on prejudices", and suffering from the sunk-cost-fallacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    Olaf should had never say anything about whether I was using DoEvents or not, that had nothing to do with the database issue. He should had focused on his component, not in my code. The right question would had been: what situation could cause for my component to give that error?
    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    Someone with clarity could have asked about "if there is a DoEvents, what could had happened in the middle?", but that's it.
    I think that's what happened?

    Post #26, Olaf said "My guess is, that you use DoEvents somewhere in your Apps "larger loops" - is that the case?"

    In his next post (#37) a few hours later, he said: "Because you have to really know: - when to call it - but especially "from where" to call it. I'd certainly not call it from within a Cnn.BeginTrans... Cnn.CommitTrans-CodeBlock."

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    So, now because I had a problem regarding this database stuff, wqweto and anybody feel they have the right to criticize something based on prejudices?
    I don't see it, but if their criticisms are based on prejudices then the onus is on you to prove them wrong. I don't think you did, but maybe you article will change my mind. I'm also ~100% sure if you have some new insight into DoEvents that proves guys like Olaf & wqweto wrong about their criticisms that they would be the first ones to change their minds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    Let's be clear about things: the fact that I now used Olaf's RC6 has nothing to do with him saying how I have to do my program. He should limit his instructions to the things that have to do with his component, not with other things.
    He was giving you the best advice he had based on the situation at hand, but he wasn't forcing you to take it. In fact he has said "As you wish..." despite you sticking to some questionable design choices. I think you're projecting you prejudices.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    I quite sure that I have a lot more experience programming with DoEvents than (probably) anyone that participated in this thread. It could seem pedantic but that's the truth.
    If you have something to teach, most of us here would like to learn. Until then, that's just words.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    Anyone with real understanding of an alleged issue would show with some lines of code where that big problem that they are talking about is. And not giving general advices against as it was the bogeyman.
    Olaf responded with specifics once you provided code. Others in this thread have tried to understand your goals and give some advice based on our experience, but you've been (IMO needlessly) argumentative and closed-minded.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    I have big esteem of wqweto and Olaf, but what is laughable to me is when people follow other people blindly.
    If you smell dog-poop everywhere you go, check your shoes

    Anyway, I think the technical component of this thread has been resolved, and now we're going off the rails. Good luck with your project Eduardo, and I look forward to your DoEvents article should you decide to write it.

  5. #125

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    Re: Convert binary data to a valid Unicode string whitout wasting (much) space ❓

    I see jbro that you like troubles.
    I wish you find all the troubles that you want.

  6. #126

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    Re: Convert binary data to a valid Unicode string whitout wasting (much) space ❓

    I've read your post again, and decided to give it some of my valuable time.

    PS: I didn't review, some phrases may not be perfect (maybe later if I feel like it).

    Some parts changed order:

    Quote Originally Posted by jpbro View Post
    Anyway, I think the technical component of this thread has been resolved, and now we're going off the rails.
    You were going out of the rails since you intervened. It was already resolved when you entered.
    I didn't set the thread as "Resolved" because what the title says was not resolved, or not entirely. But since many post we were talking about the database issue, and that one was resolved.

    Quote Originally Posted by jpbro View Post
    I look forward to your DoEvents article should you decide to write it.
    I need some motive to do that, it would take some work. It is not something that I would do for me, but to help others. Not to prove anything to you for sure, that's not a reason for me to invest time writing an article.
    If someone asks for it in a good "wave"...

    Did you ever read that "DoEvents is evil" or that "DoEvents should never be used"?
    The article would show that those statements are not true.
    If it would teach "something new"? Not something new, not for me of course, and I would guess that nothing new for most, but... if everyone have so much clarity, why do they say things like those then?
    Probably the article would say things that they already know, and clarify that "there is no more", there is no something unknown, totally unpredictable, or a monster that can appear at any time from the dark if you use DoEvents.
    So, maybe it serves only to clarify the things that they already know, and that there is no more than that.

    Well, I guess that was already the starting of the article.

    There are different ways to do things. Alternatives to the DoEvents approach is the Timer approach. I don't mean that using DoEvents you do not use timers, they combine actually, I use a lot of timers also.
    I mean the entire thing based on just timers to avoid DoEvents completely.
    And a third approach is to launch threads (multi-threading). Or maybe to launch processes, that is similar.

    The three have advantages and disadvantages.
    If I keep writing and describe the advantages and disadvantages of each one here, it would half the article already...

    Quote Originally Posted by jpbro View Post
    That's not how I see it at all, From my perspective, it appears that you are the one "thinking on prejudices", and suffering from the sunk-cost-fallacy.
    You have no idea what I'm doing and you think you are in position to judge what is better or worse for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by jpbro View Post
    I think that's what happened?

    Post #26, Olaf said "My guess is, that you use DoEvents somewhere in your Apps "larger loops" - is that the case?"

    In his next post (#37) a few hours later, he said: "Because you have to really know: - when to call it - but especially "from where" to call it. I'd certainly not call it from within a Cnn.BeginTrans... Cnn.CommitTrans-CodeBlock."
    Look, it is difficult not to fight with Olaf, and I'm not easy either. So, what are you trying to get me into?
    If you are trying to defend Olaf, I think he is grown enough to defend himself in the case he thinks he needs to.
    Now you bring this subject, but I'm trying to keep peace.
    I'm using his component, he insisted many times to use it. I told him that because I didn't need it. Well, now I needed it and used it. I want to be "forgiving", one because I use his component for free, and secondly because he does not like opinions, suggestions or criticism. So, OK, fine.

    What you are talking here was already answered, for example in the post #89.
    It was not specific due to what I said in the above paragraph.
    I could specify a lot if I was asked, but not that I wasn't asked, but the opposite: ideas to improve things are not welcomed. One has to adapt to it as it is and that's all. It is OK, I don't care.
    But you can see that it was me who discovered the error situation. OK, not sure if anyone else other than Olaf followed the thread carefully to see these things.

    So, again, what are you trying to do? Are you trying to make me say something that piss Olaf?
    That wouldn't be too difficult both things.
    But there are reasons:
    1) I'm using RC6 now, and I don't feel like it to rewrite all over again, so...
    2) I'm been already at odds with him in the past, but lately we were OK.
    3) What would we gain?

    Quote Originally Posted by jpbro View Post
    I don't see it, but if their criticisms are based on prejudices then the onus is on you to prove them wrong.
    I don't need to prove anything to anybody. Not for you for sure, not for anyone else but maybe to just to Olaf, because it was something about having error with his component.
    But I don't think that I have to prove anything to Olaf either, because I believe that he understand the thing very well (and now you are about to make your goal of making me to say something that will piss him, OK, I'll instead say: ). Why he blamed DoEvents for the problem, I don't know.

    About other people, there are areas were someone is very skilled and other things not so much (that includes us all).
    Some people are very skilled on many areas, but learned the things in same way many years ago, and never questioned or wanted to change, or considered to change.
    That can be for example "never use OERN", or "never use GoTo".
    OK, anyone can do whatever he wants, "never ever use GoTo" is OK, but for you, not for others.
    The problem is when they think that "is is the only right thing to do and it must be preached and enforced to everyone".
    I can agree with some, for example "always use Option Explicit". But still respect if someone does not.

    DoEvents has its "problems", I mean, it opens the door to many thing that you need to take care. Some people prefer not having to do that, and basically opt for one of the other two options (timers, spawning threads). That's OK, it is a choice. Valid? Yeah, it is valid. It should be preached as a general rule? No.
    Others could prefer to deal with the issues of DoEvents (and not with the issues of for example not having the possibility to debug step-by-step because the worker must be compiled, or there are crashes due to marshalling issues, etc.
    If VB6 was multi-threaded, we wouldn't be talking about this.

    Quote Originally Posted by jpbro View Post
    I don't think you did, but maybe you article will change my mind. I'm also ~100% sure if you have some new insight into DoEvents that proves guys like Olaf & wqweto wrong about their criticisms that they would be the first ones to change their minds.
    Perhaps I already changed your mind (but I don't have high hopes, I admit).

    Quote Originally Posted by jpbro View Post
    He was giving you the best advice he had based on the situation at hand, but he wasn't forcing you to take it. In fact he has said "As you wish..." despite you sticking to some questionable design choices. I think you're projecting you prejudices.
    It does not sound as you are wishing to have a friendly conversation.
    But maybe you already changed your mind.

    So people that don't know very much about what I'm doing will know what I have to do, or how to do better what they don't know that my program does. If that's not prejudice tell me how you call it.
    It is not "the best advice" to change a program that is totally already working, and for some other approach that would make debugging much more difficult (or totally impossible due to the complexity).

    If people would not mess with things that they wouldn't to, I wouldn't have to spend so much time explaining unnecessary things, that they shouldn't care.
    And much less after I already fixed the problem, but you insist.

    Quote Originally Posted by jpbro View Post
    If you have something to teach, most of us here would like to learn. Until then, that's just words.
    I expect I already added enough words. Nevertheless usually teaching is also by words.

    I deleted your insults.

    I'm not sure I'll write more , for now.
    People that want to learn usually have another attitude.

  7. #127
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    Re: Convert binary data to a valid Unicode string whitout wasting (much) space ❓

    You misunderstand me Eduardo, I don't like troubles at all, I like solutions. I like exploring technical problems with people who are working on similar problems, with similar (admitedly ancient) technologies, all around the world.

    Anyway, I can do without the emotional crap, so change my mind with your DoEvents article, or stay within your safe space where everyone else is just "following people blindly" whenever they challenge you on a technical issue.

  8. #128
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    Re: Convert binary data to a valid Unicode string whitout wasting (much) space ❓

    Ignore my last message for now, I just see that you've responded in detail, so I will respond in kind.

  9. #129
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    Re: Convert binary data to a valid Unicode string whitout wasting (much) space ❓

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    I've read your post again, and decided to give it some of my valuable time.
    Bien, merci. Moi aussi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    PS: I didn't review, some phrases may not be perfect (maybe later if I feel like it).
    Don't bother yourself with changing anything - I don't care about the phrases as much as the tone. Now that we're talking, I don't even care about the tone since we're all getting something out of the conversation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    You were going out of the rails since you intervened. It was already resolved when you entered.
    You're right that I might have been a bit late to the party - I lurk a lot, but I don't always have the time to post lately. But regarding my post about using Timers/Threads vs. DoEvents - I was not trying to insult you, I just wanted to challenge you said you didn't want to use timers because "that would slow down everything. No way." I just wanted to report that I use a Timer approach in my app and it slows it down around 5% at most. I felt I was sensitive to your desire for utmost speed though, I just wanted to point out what the penalty would be. For some that would be acceptable, for others not

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    I need some motive to do that, it would take some work. It is not something that I would do for me, but to help others. Not to prove anything to you for sure, that's not a reason for me to invest time writing an article.
    If someone asks for it in a good "wave"...
    I get it, we all have other better things to do. I don't even know why we're hanging out at vbforums at all sometimes

    But there are some great people here who volunteer their time, and that always seem ready to teach, learn, and discover new things. I've learned a lot from them, and I suspect you have too. If you have some insights into DoEvents that the community has missed, then it only seems fair to share, no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    Did you ever read that "DoEvents is evil" or that "DoEvents should never be used"?
    Yes, I read & heard that. I think there are three levels of "DoEvents is evil" - For newbies, DoEvents is evil because A) it will cause you all kinds of confusion when things quickly start going "weird". B) For Mid-bies, DoEvents is evil because you will waste a lot of Old-bies time when you hit the edge cases after successfully "mastering" DoEvents. C) For Old-bies, DoEvents is evil because of A) and B), but it's useful when you need it super-sparingly and understand the implications of its use fully.

    At the end of the day, it's not "evil" it's just too easy to abuse/cause trouble.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    The article would show that those statements are not true.
    I've snipped some of your comments, but I'm still open ears for your article if you want to write it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    There are different ways to do things. Alternatives to the DoEvents approach is the Timer approach. I don't mean that using DoEvents you do not use timers, they combine actually, I use a lot of timers also.
    I agree - DoEvents has its uses, as do timers & threads. There's varying degrees of complexity and risk in each approach IMO - I don't think any approach is a perfect.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    The three have advantages and disadvantages.
    Just got to this bit, but I agree 100% (as I said above).


    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    You have no idea what I'm doing and you think you are in position to judge what is better or worse for me?
    I'm not judging you on your program or technical merits at all Eduardo. If I've judged you at all it's been on your attitude and that's it, but even then I try to come to each of your posts with an open mind and try to respond to them on their merits. I will say this though - when you are challenged a bit, you often respond very strongly, and when that is challenged you often respond as if you are being persecuted. It's nice that when that is challenged, we start to talk though

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    Look, it is difficult not to fight with Olaf, and I'm not easy either.
    Yes, you both have strong personalities/opinions, and strong personalities/opinions are guaranteed to clash.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    So, what are you trying to get me into?
    I'm not trying to get you into anything. Even after almost 25 years, I'm just trying to learn near-optimal VB6 programming. It's insane, but here I am (and here are you). Even after all this time, I don't think I'm the greatest VB6 programmer, but your posts In fact, I don't think I'm even close.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    If you are trying to defend Olaf, I think he is grown enough to defend himself in the case he thinks he needs to.
    Olaf's a big boy, I'm not defending him. We disagree on many things, but when I think he's right, I think he's right. You and I disagree on even more things, but when I think you're right, I think you're right. I would do the same for you (as I have done at the tB GitHub).

    ** I only got this far (so faR), but it is late here and I am tired so I will try to get to the rest tomorrow. I do appreciate the detailed response Eduardo.

  10. #130

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    Re: Convert binary data to a valid Unicode string whitout wasting (much) space ❓

    I think I agree with everything.

    ☮︎

  11. #131
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    Re: Convert binary data to a valid Unicode string whitout wasting (much) space ❓

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