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Thread: Suspend the gas tax???

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    Suspend the gas tax???

    Sure I'd like to pay 18 cents less a gallon but this doesn't really seem to address the the real problem. The oil companies are gouging us. As are several other industries. The one I see the most is groceries. I do all the grocery shopping and the price increases are alarming.

    I'm not pro Dem or Rep but this administration seems helpless at getting this under control. Their go to response seems to be, lets throw money at it. Now, I was for the infrastructure when they were throwing money at that problem, especially if they would have left out most of the non infrastructure items they were bundling with it.

    I have no idea what powers the federal government has for addressing this gouging but suspending the gas tax seems about as minimal a step as they could take. Plus it solves nothing and the lost of tax revenue will have to be made up and that will be put back on the tax payers.

    Just a mild rant.

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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    The current price for car fuel in Europe is around Ä2.40 per liter.
    So I donít think itís government related or related to the war Putin started, itís all about get rich richer

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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    Quote Originally Posted by Arnoutdv View Post
    The current price for car fuel in Europe is around Ä2.40 per liter.
    So I donít think itís government related or related to the war Putin started, itís all about get rich richer
    Yeah, the price of gas in Europe is high compared to ours but that's nothing new. Our prices have jumped from @ $3gal to @ $5gal in a year.

    I agree, it's all about the oil companies trying to squeeze as much money as possible out of us. Well, that's always been true but for some reason this time seems more extreme.

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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    The US federal gas tax is trivial, so suspending it wouldn't make enough difference to matter.

    However, costs of various inputs are rising. It takes fuel (not necessarily, or primarily, gas, but fuel) to transport everything. That adds a multiplier to every step of our lengthy supply chains. Even food has a lengthy supply chain, especially when you add in the rising costs of fertilizer, pesticides, and so on.

    If there was a magic level that politicians can pull that would make everything rosy, they'd pull it as soon as they got their hands on it, and keep on pulling it until the handle fell off. About the only tool they have is the fed and interest rates, and you've seen what that does, for better and worse. However, economists always state that the interest rate has to get above some base inflation rate before interest rate rises turn down inflation. You remember the 80s, when interest rates soared. Yeah, inflation was clobbered, but the economy was kind of clobbered, as well. The target number I have been hearing for interest rates this time around is 4-5% for the US, though some say that it would have to be 8-9 to get above inflation. I don't know if the lower figure is based on the economic theories or if it is just that saying that the interest rate has to rise to 8-9% is so shocking that economists don't generally want to talk about it, so they cite the lower figure because it's already bad enough.

    Of course, it won't be so bad for some folks. My bond funds will take it in the shorts in the near term, but my returns are already rising, and will continue to do so, since it's a fund. High interest sucks if you need to borrow, but is great if you can take advantage of it.

    Still, even if one were to take the 4-5% rate as where interest rates would have to be to stop inflation, and we go up at 0.75% per quarter, as happened in the last fed meeting, how long will it take to reach that 4-5% rate? Keep in mind that 0.75% rate rise was the greatest one time rise in several decades, and yet it leaves the rate at 1.5%, which means that we'd need four more adjustments of that size to get to where it starts to turn down inflation.

    Of course, that's just an economic theory, and economic theories seem to be even more woolly and ephemeral than most theories. As the saying goes, if you ask two economists for opinions, you'll get three of them.

    Personally, I find that theory pretty unconvincing. I don't think there is enough data to say that it is more than a guess. So, if I had my guess, the economy will go into recession, then inflation might stop, but we'll change administrations, the new one will feel the need to make to 'take action', and we'll get some flailing response that is likely to do more harm than good.
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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    One thing about US gas prices: They always rise to Memorial Day, then moderate somewhat over the summer into the winter.

    In this case, the rise wasn't in a year, it was since February. Take a look at this chart:

    https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_gas_price
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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    Yeah, the price of gas in Europe is high compared to ours but that's nothing new. Our prices have jumped from @ $3gal to @ $5gal in a year.

    I agree, it's all about the oil companies trying to squeeze as much money as possible out of us. Well, that's always been true but for some reason this time seems more extreme.
    A year a ago the price was Ä1.92
    Then a peak at Ä2.50 somewhere in March 2022
    After this peak the taxes were reduced, giving a new price of Ä 2.25 at the 1st of April.
    In the following weeks the oil companies increased the price to be at Ä 2.50 again today.

    All companies are taking advantage of (fake?) shortages for all kind of goods, all because of war in the Ukraine.
    Being it fuel, electricity, food, building materials, computer chips..

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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    One thing about US gas prices: They always rise to Memorial Day, then moderate somewhat over the summer into the winter.

    In this case, the rise wasn't in a year, it was since February. Take a look at this chart:

    https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_gas_price
    We went from $3.50 to $5 since Feb. but the rise started @ May 2021(before that but the prices were low). The prices were below normal because of COVID, then @ May 2021 we were back to normal but since then the prices have just continued to rise. They didn't drop back down after Labor Day in 2021 like they usually do.

    https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/Le...te_nus_dpg&f=m
    Last edited by wes4dbt; Jun 22nd, 2022 at 03:49 PM.

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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    All companies are taking advantage of (fake?) shortages for all kind of goods, all because of war in the Ukraine.
    Being it fuel, electricity, food, building materials, computer chips..
    I don't know anything about Europe but they have used the shortage excuse here. But there doesn't seem to be a shortage, plenty of gas, all you need is money. I haven't heard them use the war in Ukraine as an excuse.

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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    However, costs of various inputs are rising. It takes fuel (not necessarily, or primarily, gas, but fuel) to transport everything. That adds a multiplier to every step of our lengthy supply chains. Even food has a lengthy supply chain, especially when you add in the rising costs of fertilizer, pesticides, and so on.
    And yadda yadda. Not to trivialize valid points.

    But what suddenly changed in the last 18 months? The laws of physics? Or political policies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    If there was a magic level that politicians can pull that would make everything rosy, they'd pull it as soon as they got their hands on it, and keep on pulling it until the handle fell off.
    Perhaps. At least insofar as it does not conflict with higher priority agendas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Of course, it won't be so bad for some folks.
    Well given time... savers won't be as severely punished to feed the wasters who live on credit. But I don't expect interest paid to savers to rise nearly as fast as interest charged to wasters.

    Some of the interest rate suppression was intended to drive money into the Wall Street casino by making conventional bank savings. CDs, etc. as weak as possible. Why have cash for real estate and small business lending available from local and regional lenders? That undermines the power of national banks and the casino that cater to centralized corporations.


    I think there may be other large scale factors at work though.

    A big piece may be demographic in nature. There is a big move into retirement right now, and that takes a lot of capital from the accumulation stage to the spend-down stage. Those people are also leaving the workforce, right at a time when younger people question participation at all. How many are trying to emulate retirement at the age of 25, 30, 35, 40 with no nest egg? Maybe they cash out some high-ticket coastal real estate and descend like locusts on a small suburb in Texas, Kentucky, or Georgia? Or they choose near-homeless roaming in campers until that gets old or they get sick?

    There is also the shift out of globalism. It takes a long time to retool and reindustrialize, and reworking transportation and rejiggering raw materials sources is a part of that.

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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    Europe has no oil or gas resources.
    And here is where we come in.
    We have 1 trillion $ counted resources on Gas and Oil. We extract nothing. Why? Because of 2 reasons.
    1)The big oil and gas traders - ship owners (Greece if I'm not mistaken has the biggest commercial fleet in the world, about 25% ) that they want to continue the ship trading.
    2)Germany that they don't want to get the boot our of Greece if we extract oil and only do so when we are in a complete economic dependency of them

    What we have to confront them? Our sold our, born our of a overseer kaprican geraldin jellyfish, politicians. Traitors will trait. Oh and I think we are going to elections in October, even government politicians acknowledge that. Hopefully with proper non traitor government we can save Europe's economy. Let's hope so.
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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post

    But what suddenly changed in the last 18 months? The laws of physics? Or political policies?
    Neither one. What EVER changes? The bulk of our economy is based on us buying stuff. We buy stuff based on our situation, our outlook, and so on. The sum of all our actions is the primary driver of the economy. Everybody tries to point to something and say, "There! That's the reason right there!" That's a lot of hooey. The crash in 2008 was because people got scared, then they spooked others, and so on until the economy darn near shut down. Nothing had changed except the average consumer sentiment.

    The same is going on here, with the exception of the war. Russia produces the vast majority of a few things, one of which is a metal that is kind of useful, another of which is sunflower oil, but do those things really matter? No, they do not...except that it caused some southeast Asian countries to suddenly become concerned about their cooking oils, so they stopped exports, which caused other shortages, creating other concerns, and on and on like a snowball of hesitancy.

    Meanwhile, pay was increasing in the US due to a super tight labor market (I got the biggest raise I have gotten, without changing jobs, in 25 years). That increased costs for producing all the crap we buy. At the same time, all the stimulus meant that demand was super high at a time when there were shortages of various things. Do you remember when there were several dozen ships queued up at the port of LA because they couldn't be unloaded? That wasn't so long ago.

    Meanwhile, China locked down one of their biggest industrial cities, which also didn't help the supply chain, though by then the backlog of ships at the port of LA had dropped to less than a dozen ships (which might be the normal queue).

    Meanwhile, we turned pessimistic and stopped buying stuff...then went on a spree...then stopped again.

    This has always happened. The economy is the most complex chaotic system we know of short of the climate itself...and maybe even the climate isn't as complex. Throughout history, there are cases where the actions in one country impacted the economy on the other side of the world (almost always negatively, but that's probably a bias due to collapses bein a whole lot more noticeable). Everybody wants to blame somebody, and the blame is always the same: Greed. It must be greed. Those dastardly oilmen weren't greedy for a decade, but suddenly...WOOHOO!!! LET'S MAKE US SOME CASH!

    It's never that simple.

    In fact, I have left out what is often cited as the major factor involved in gas price rises over the last year, or so, but this post is long enough.
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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    In fact, I have left out what is often cited as the major factor involved in gas price rises over the last year, or so, but this post is long enough.
    I wonder which that might be?

    Could it be the market's belief that "fossil fuels are done?" The mythical electrification of the energy economy within a decade that took hold around 2014? The one that suppressed further investment in oil and natural gas acquisition, refining, transportation, storage, and distribution dropping it all by 2/3?

    Nah, couldn't be.

    I just watched videos of two seminars on that very topic. One was full of hand-wringing misery, a consumer organization. The other was full of glee and back slapping and high fives, an energy production trade organization.

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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    Even funnier: Just halfway (ok, 3/8) through a lecture to US military organizations right now... and it raised the same point!

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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    I wonder which that might be?

    Could it be the market's belief that "fossil fuels are done?" The mythical electrification of the energy economy within a decade that took hold around 2014? The one that suppressed further investment in oil and natural gas acquisition, refining, transportation, storage, and distribution dropping it all by 2/3?

    Nah, couldn't be.
    No, that was it.
    I just watched videos of two seminars on that very topic. One was full of hand-wringing misery, a consumer organization. The other was full of glee and back slapping and high fives, an energy production trade organization.
    Understandable. It's not just the market, either. You might say it's shareholder opinion. In any case, to keep oil and gas cheap, we have to keep expanding exploration, exploitation, and refinement. With so many pushing against that...well, what OTHER result was really possible?

    I've long said that the gas tax should have been raised several times over. Sure, we'll have pain in the short term, but the alternative is absurd. Very human, but still absurd: We want everything to change but have nothing change.

    Why would anybody get off gas if it is cheaper than milk?
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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    Milk is a bad example. You might be amazed at how prices are kept up by literal dumping of raw milk onto fields and government acquisition and (now private) storage of low-grade high-salt cheese underground.

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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???



    Really wrong, but what isn't any more?

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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    I wouldn't be amazed, but I do know the price of milk and I don't know the price of water, so I went with milk. One of the things about the price manipulation around milk is that the prices are pretty similar across the country, so it makes something of a 'standard candle' when it comes to liquids.
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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    Shifting to an electric economy diminishing fossil fuel inputs seems inevitable now. It probably won't be as rapid as people thought a decade ago, but it is coming and the phase-in will continue as it has.

    However to avoid fission generation swooping in and eating most of the pie... we need to improve a lot of things. The biggest is probably battery technology, both automotive and "farm-scale" utility company storage. Pumped-storage is great but too impractical and expensive to ever be a large fraction of the story.

    Storage could help make solar farms viable for the first time, though I can't see household rooftop ever paying back its initial carbon footprint even if you ignore its high labor cost in manufacturing, installation, and maintenance. Wind has its own woes, and the impact on large birds and the surrounding quality of life needs some sort of solution.

    We'll get there... just not tomorrow. But there are at least some well defined problems to attack. It all has investment costs though.

    Near term our best bet is to outlaw export of crude oil and petroleum products. I don't see anything else making a useful dent in prices for either gasoline or natural gas. Biden can do that by Executive Order. Right now though he's too drunk on the endorphins from tossing candy to the EU.

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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    Yeah, the biggest is battery technology. If that doubled, it would change everything.
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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    The crash in 2008 was because people got scared, then they spooked others, and so on until the economy darn near shut down. Nothing had changed except the average consumer sentiment.
    And a much higher percentage of people defaulting on their mortgage loans. It was crazy in the early 2000's. The mortgage companies were accepting nothing more than "stated income" on the loan applications. I bought a house in 2008 just before the crash. My daughter had a friend that was doing mortgage loans, they could get just about anybody approved for a loan that there was no way they could keep up the payments.

    Those dastardly oilmen weren't greedy for a decade, but suddenly...WOOHOO!!! LET'S MAKE US SOME CASH!
    They've certainly always been greedy but I don't remember seeing a $2 jump in price in a year. Their greed isn't new but the SIZE of it seems new.

    https://www.npr.org/2022/05/07/10971...e-prices-crude
    Last edited by wes4dbt; Jun 22nd, 2022 at 09:09 PM.

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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    Interesting:

    Democrats search for sweet spot on gas prices, climate goals

    President Joe Biden came into office last year pledging to restrict drilling on public lands and enact an ambitious clean energy agenda, supported by a Democratic Congress and a hungry base of environmental activists.

    Now, facing a potentially disastrous midterm season with high gas prices spurred by Russiaís invasion of Ukraine, the Biden administration and Capitol Hill Democrats have done something of a 180: They are pushing major companies for more domestic oil and gas production and pleading with them to lower prices.

    That contradiction was on display this week during a hearing on alleged oil profiteering with six industry executives in the House Energy and Commerce Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations (E&E Daily, April 7). While Democrats did pitch clean energy and climate policy as the long-run solution, they repeatedly asked oil companies to ramp up production in the near term.

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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    Of course we don't use Russian oil here, so that bit of misdirection falls flat. This was all engineered through ill-advised policy. The clowns are now falling all over each other trying to exit the electric car hoping to save their careers and their power.

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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    Are you referring to gas or gas?

    US terminology.
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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    Gasoline, though natural gas is another issue a lot of people are not thinking about right now.

    Natural gas goes into many things, from generating electricity to heating buildings to materials synthesis for non-fuel purposes (fertilizers, plastics, pesticides, clothing fibers, etc.).

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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Natural gas goes into many things,
    Now, if we where to have more pigs....
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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    That's something natural gas comes out of, not goes into.

    I live in an all electric house, so I don't directly see the price of natural gas. I'm sure I see it indirectly, but not directly.
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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    They've certainly always been greedy but I don't remember seeing a $2 jump in price in a year. Their greed isn't new but the SIZE of it seems new.

    https://www.npr.org/2022/05/07/10971...e-prices-crude
    I don't think their greed is any different from any other for profit company. What is different about oil is that there is so much market speculation around it. You don't see people selling Excel futures, or something like that, but people are certainly betting on oil. That's the big casino that Dilettante is banging on about. I'm not as negative about it as him, but he certainly does have a point. Whenever something happens that changes the supply of oil, it is the market that freaks out. As the article you linked to shows, the big oil companies are reaping record profits. I'm sure they're thrilled. I'm sure they'd like to have had that profit for the last decades, as well, but they didn't. They have limited means. If they own refineries, they could take a few offline. Odd how some tend to go offline for maintenance just as the summer driving season gets started. However, if they don't own their own refineries, then all they can do is pump more or less oil. The whole point behind OPEC was to get the major producers to work together to keep prices high. Without that, one country could try to reduce output to boost prices, but other countries would be able to take over their output, which created an incentive to race to the bottom. OPEC was all about preventing that...for profits.

    Still, the point is that the oil companies can pump more, up to a point, or pump less, but that's the only real lever they have. I'm not sure that they have the means to pump enough less to cause a jump in prices that high. Theoretically, they could if they ALL pumped much less, but their profits would plummet, as well. That hasn't happened. It wasn't the oil companies that freaked out, it was the market, the speculators, the investors, and their ilk (to be fair, I may be part of their ilk, I'd have to check) that drove this, and the oil companies are just benefitting massively.
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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    Well higher gasoline prices are here now and probably won't drop much. After the elections this fall they'll probably ramp up even more.

    But in any case most people have few options besides being more optimal in their consumption.

    Not everyone can lay out the bucks for an electric car to piggyback onto power rates that haven't priced in their impact yet and benefit from those hefty tax credits. Those who can probably don't feel any pain at the pump anyway. And the supply of new electric cars or viable used ones isn't that big yet either.

    So we're back to things like using the compact car instead of the guzzler, grouping trips together such as shopping for groceries on the way home from work, using carpooling and mass transit, biking to the drugstore. Most of that was smart previously anyway.

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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Well higher gasoline prices are here now and probably won't drop much. After the elections this fall they'll probably ramp up even more.

    But in any case most people have few options besides being more optimal in their consumption.

    Not everyone can lay out the bucks for an electric car to piggyback onto power rates that haven't priced in their impact yet and benefit from those hefty tax credits. Those who can probably don't feel any pain at the pump anyway. And the supply of new electric cars or viable used ones isn't that big yet either.

    So we're back to things like using the compact car instead of the guzzler, grouping trips together such as shopping for groceries on the way home from work, using carpooling and mass transit, biking to the drugstore. Most of that was smart previously anyway.
    Yeah, that's how I see it. I'm not so sure which direction gas prices will go, but the rest of it looks kind of inevitable.

    One thing is that there are a few parts of the country where the pricing in isn't as absent. Out here, a large portion of our electricity is hydro. There are certainly costs associated with that, but they ARE pretty much priced in (mitigation costs, dredging costs, maintenance costs, are all paid up front by the utility). We also have some of the cheapest electricity in the country.
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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    The whole point behind OPEC was to get the major producers to work together to keep prices high. Without that, one country could try to reduce output to boost prices, but other countries would be able to take over their output, which created an incentive to race to the bottom. OPEC was all about preventing that...for profits.
    This was being done, sort of unofficially, before OPEC. Our government was eager to look the other way and ignore anti-trust laws because they wanted stable oil prices. More than once the oil market prices would go from boom to bust. I've been watching a series on Netflix called "The Prize". It a history of oil and oil producers. It's based on a book that won a Pulitzer Prize. It's a bit long and it looks like the interviews were done in the 70's but it does lay out clear picture.

    What is different about oil is that there is so much market speculation around it. You don't see people selling Excel futures, or something like that, but people are certainly betting on oil. That's the big casino that Dilettante is banging on about. I'm not as negative about it as him, but he certainly does have a point. Whenever something happens that changes the supply of oil, it is the market that freaks out
    What I don't understand is the price of oil (barrel) has been this high before but the price of gas wasn't this high. Who's making the increased profits?

    https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/Le...f000000__3&f=m


    Don't get me wrong, I'm not angry about the prices because it's hurting me financially, it's not. I don't drive that much, I fill up my tank about once a month, so it's not a big hit. Though if the major price increases in groceries are because of gas prices, then yeah, it is affecting me.

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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    The oil companies, and associated intermediaries, are the ones making all the money. However, I feel that the rise in gas prices was due to two factors: Refinery capacity...and the market. I don't have any figures, but it's highly likely that FAR more people are 'betting' on gas and oil than are actually involved in producing it. If you're betting up oil futures, or trading around 'theoretical' barrels, that's where I would place the blame.

    What I don't know is whether or not I'm one of those people. If you have money in certain funds, then you have a hand in it, however small. It's the fund managers that are shifting things around, so you don't REALLY have a hand in it, at least not directly, but...perhaps a bit.
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  32. #32

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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    What I don't know is whether or not I'm one of those people. If you have money in certain funds, then you have a hand in it, however small. It's the fund managers that are shifting things around, so you don't REALLY have a hand in it, at least not directly, but...perhaps a bit.
    I'm in the same position. I have no idea.

    But I have to admit I must have a false concept of the controlling factors of gas. I thought the price of oil was the main price driver, so why is the price of gas much higher than when the oil prices were at this level before. I'm not sure what you mean when you talk about people "betting" on gas and oil. Are you talking about betting on oil prices, or also, investing in oil companies stock. Because I don't see how investing in oil companies stock would raise the price of gas.

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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    That's part of the... "beauty" of forcing the workforce off defined benefit pension systems and into the hands of Wall Street through lottery tickets like IRAs, 401k, 403b, 457b, and other managed fund schemes.

    Not only is it easier to soak up the gravy through a system of iterative management fees, but it also provides large slabs of cash to play with that the nominal "owners" have very limited control over.

    You never really know how much is invested in weapons manufacture, mercenary armies, toxic waste generating industries, ground water thieves like Nestle operating in your back yard while you sip lead, etc. You don't even have an investing board 2 degrees of separation away to yell at. You just buy stacks of red or yellow or purple or black-striped lottery tickets while standing 5 degrees of separation from the casino itself. The colors may not really correspond to any physical reality and as little as they do that can probably change with no input from or reporting to you.

    People buying stocks and bonds out of pocket at the retail level are probably almost as insulated and deluded themselves. Those are typically "the sweepings," the stock classes paid last. You don't see a lot of small fry sitting on a pile of preferred stock shares. It's like a diet of M&Ms and Pringles and images on cardboard instead of solid vegetables and meat. Fiat securities.

  34. #34

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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    That's part of the... "beauty" of forcing the workforce off defined benefit pension systems and into the hands of Wall Street through lottery tickets like IRAs, 401k, 403b, 457b, and other managed fund schemes.

    Not only is it easier to soak up the gravy through a system of iterative management fees, but it also provides large slabs of cash to play with that the nominal "owners" have very limited control over.

    You never really know how much is invested in weapons manufacture, mercenary armies, toxic waste generating industries, ground water thieves like Nestle operating in your back yard while you sip lead, etc. You don't even have an investing board 2 degrees of separation away to yell at. You just buy stacks of red or yellow or purple or black-striped lottery tickets while standing 5 degrees of separation from the casino itself. The colors may not really correspond to any physical reality and as little as they do that can probably change with no input from or reporting to you.

    People buying stocks and bonds out of pocket at the retail level are probably almost as insulated and deluded themselves. Those are typically "the sweepings," the stock classes paid last. You don't see a lot of small fry sitting on a pile of preferred stock shares. It's like a diet of M&Ms and Pringles and images on cardboard instead of solid vegetables and meat. Fiat securities.
    I'm not sure we were forced. We still have the right to unionize or strike. No one has taken that away. We may have been conned but not forced.

    Half the time I don't fully understand what your say but it's always fun to read how you say it. lol

  35. #35
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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    That's part of the... "beauty" of forcing the workforce off defined benefit pension systems and into the hands of Wall Street through lottery tickets like IRAs, 401k, 403b, 457b, and other managed fund schemes.
    I have both. There's an advantage to each.
    Not only is it easier to soak up the gravy through a system of iterative management fees, but it also provides large slabs of cash to play with that the nominal "owners" have very limited control over.
    That depends largely on the system. I have a fair variety of options, though a whole lot fewer since spring. Prior to that, I had two different pools of funds to choose from, one of which had so many options that it took considerable time researching all of them. The current one is a bit less diverse, but management fees are very low, when compared to fees across the industry.

    You never really know how much is invested in weapons manufacture, mercenary armies, toxic waste generating industries, ground water thieves like Nestle operating in your back yard while you sip lead, etc.
    You do if you pay attention. I have never seen a fund that didn't publish its asset allocation breakdown, even when it's overwhelming.
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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    Well. Let's strike up the happy music while the bunnies and unicorns play among the dancing trees with faces on them. Welcome to Toontown!



    And no, that is not Phil Collins behind the wheel there.

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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    As with anything, lots of factors combine to bring about trends like large gasoline price rises. Have we talked about labor inflation yet?

    We're in a Sandersized economy. You have the population decline inherent in urbanization, wage increases by political fiat, low workforce participation encouraged by a culture of indolence, and mass retirement of the largest generation in history. All of that has peaked within the last decade, even more drastically over the last few years.


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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    This guy is pretty qualified and honest, and he makes the effort himself despite his skepticism:



    The price of this magical solar car is just hilarious. However in that price range each unit may be hand made upon order.

    Yes, the greenies hate him.

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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    Here's a Bureau of Labor Statistics graph on workforce participation:

    https://www.bls.gov/charts/employmen...ation-rate.htm

    It pretty much says what Dil said, without the 'get off my lawn' bit. The line in May 2020 is pretty fun. Other than that, it may just reflect the retirement of the boomers. As a greater number move into retirement, they are still in the population, they just aren't participating anymore. One of the fun factors that goes into this is that we used to just die around retirement age. That keeps the participation percentage higher, so the trend in this line (up until May 2020) could be the boomers retiring, the boomers living longer, but probably it is a bit of both.
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    Re: Suspend the gas tax???

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    This guy is pretty qualified and honest, and he makes the effort himself despite his skepticism:



    The price of this magical solar car is just hilarious. However in that price range each unit may be hand made upon order.

    Yes, the greenies hate him.
    I didn't watch the video, but if it says that a solar powered car is impractical...yeah, of course. Cheap solar doesn't have the power per square unit output, and the solar that might do so is WAY too expensive to put on a car. There are some theoretical solar cells that could make it possible, but they are...only technically possible at this point.

    Here's what amounts to an advertisement, but it covers the 'stacked solar cell' in a simple write up.

    https://www.solar-facts-and-advice.c...lar-cells.html

    Those cells might be able to top 60% efficiency, but can't be mass produced for a reasonable price.
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