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Thread: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

  1. #1

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    QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    It seems that a parallel BASIC community has just gone "tits up" and exploded in a eruption of vitriol. That being the QB64 community. QB64 is a recreation of QBasic from the 90s, a 64bit 90version of the IDE, compiler and language. It had a site (qb64.org) , WIKI, forum, codebank, discord server. Almost all were erased after a main contributor handed over the site to an unknown and discussion turned to argument, in turn to troubles.

    https://lunduke.substack.com/p/the-w...early-took?s=r

    I joined that community a few years ago but just as quickly left. It was full of politics leaking into normal discussions all the time, long time contributors acting as trolls, some questionable support for those long time trolls due to their essential contribution to the code meaning they could not be banned, very little moderation keeping the place under what we would consider normal control (No Shaggy there!)

    To my mind it was a mere matter of time before the community imploded or exploded. One or the other, and it did. Felippe Heitor was a very nice person but he lacked the strength to control a whole community by himself.

    It looks as if the QB64 community is having its fourth rebirth after previous incarnations also died. QBASIC > QB64.net > QB64.org > QB64.com.

    I thought that QB64 was a noble ambition but the community was fractious, always has been. Hopefully that will improve.

    One thing to extract from all that - the Discord community ultimately saved the QB64 project, I suggested once that we ought to have something similar, MatterMost, Discord or similar. Just a finishing thought.
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

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  3. #3
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    I joined that community a few years ago but just as quickly left. It was full of politics leaking into normal discussions all the time, long time contributors acting as trolls, some questionable support for those long time trolls due to their essential contribution to the code meaning they could not be banned, very little moderation keeping the place under what we would consider normal control (No Shaggy there!)
    Sounds like my kind of place. I've always thought the heavy handed moderation of the modern internet is downright stupid. This is not the internet I "grew up" on.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

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    PowerPoster Arnoutdv's Avatar
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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    Get used to it

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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    When you ask a technical question on a particular subject, the last thing you need is a US right wing agenda or a Russia-invasion supporting troll giving you indoctrination at the same time. It is bad enough when a subject goes off the rails in a technical sense (as it sometimes does here). When you call them out and then become labelled yourself as being PC, a 'commie' or a 'nazi' depending upon which side you are naming.

    Difficult for me being called those names, being white, English, CoE, privileged, middle class and middle aged as well as having a communist grandfather, a socialist father but being rather right wing myself is that all their criticisms seem to stick regardless of the direction from which they came.
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

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    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arnoutdv View Post
    Get used to it
    I never will.

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    When you ask a technical question on a particular subject, the last thing you need is a US right wing agenda or a Russia-invasion supporting troll giving you indoctrination at the same time. It is bad enough when a subject goes off the rails in a technical sense (as it sometimes does here). When you call them out and then become labelled yourself as being PC, a 'commie' or a 'nazi' depending upon which side you are naming.
    Sounds like a very interesting place to be. Online groups like this never bothered me. What bothers me is when people start banning on the basis of your views. If they let everyone have their say, I'm right at home.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    Thank goodness for Shaggy.
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    One good thing about bad news is that I suppose it attracts attention. Bad publicity is at least publicity.

    I just downloaded QB64 and installed it on my laptop and desktop where I am tempted to try it again just because it is a BASIC environment that I am very familiar with (QBASIC) that operates on multiple platforms. Nice to have a simple tool (IDE+language + compiler = simple?) that you can code in that will work regardless of the o/s (Niya's time to chime in). I unloaded it before but it was tainted by my negative experience with the QB64 forum.

    Strange how you associate an application with those that support it but that's human behaviour I suppose.
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

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    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    (Niya's time to chime in). I unloaded it before but it was tainted by my negative experience with the QB64 forum.
    Well, what you want me to say?

    If you want to know my feelings about QB64, I would say that I'm extremely glad people are keeping it alive and giving it modern upgrades. However, this is not for any practical reason. It's entirely for sentimental reasons. QuickBasic is what I grew up in. It is where I learned the foundation of programming when I was as a child and I have many fond memories of my time in QuickBasic. It would hurt my soul to know that such a core piece of my own history has disappeared.

    However, I'm not about to start telling people that they should start writing all their programs in QuickBasic. I recommend that people try it, if only to get a taste of what programming was like in the 90s.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    Oh yes they should....
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    it is a BASIC environment... that operates on multiple platforms.
    That was what I expected you to chime in on Niya but you missed it.

    I think of QB64 as a sort of extended batch scripting language that you can compile. VBscript is going out of fashion and QB64 is a gap-filler, at least I can see myself using it that way.
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

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    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    That was what I expected you to chime in on Niya but you missed it.

    I think of QB64 as a sort of extended batch scripting language that you can compile. VBscript is going out of fashion and QB64 is a gap-filler, at least I can see myself using it that way.
    Haha.....If I chimed on this, I'd simply have said that one would be better off using Python instead. Python is almost as universal as HTML. It executes on more platforms than just about any other language including QB64.

    Don't get me wrong, I love QuickBasic but I'm still self-aware enough to know that my love for it doesn't make it the best choice. If someone asked me to recommending a multi-platform scripting language for serious work, I tell them to use Python.

    I would also say this though, QB64 could position itself in the same space as Python. It's such a perfect language for the kind of scripting that Python is used for. It would have to be upgraded on language features though. Iterators, lambdas, array and dictionary syntaxes are all things that should be in all modern languages.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony.R.Brown View Post
    The Worst QB64 Forum ?
    Why? Do you have a specific beef?
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

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    PowerPoster Arnoutdv's Avatar
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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    Has Anthony.R.Brown vanished from the forum?

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    Smooth Moperator techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    So it would seem ... including all the spam posts made by his (alleged) alt account too.

    -tg
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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    Thank goodness for that! It seems that any contact with QB64 seems to taint.
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    A few thoughts:
    1. Self-awareness is a good thing to have and work on. (Also referring to myself here.)
    2. Modern forums may feel restrictive and controlling at times and there's something to be said for the freedom offered by earlier forums. However, does anyone remember the flame wars and how someone could post under any random name? NeoZones and QBasic.com for example. Also, you could see each other's IP and mess up the forum by inserting poorly formatted HTML into posts.
    3. Is there really a good reason why people should know what programming used to be like? Except for nostalgia, comparison, niche interest or if it happens to be your job to maintain an older system?

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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    3. There are a VAST number of these. I still work and operate within legacy systems. They run a lot of your life without you knowing it. Niche but omnipresent?

    I also develop for fun, for the legacy operating system yet to come - ReactOS.

    QB is a superb place to learn BASIC, a stepping stone from 8bit BASIC to something resembling VB on DOS and Windows. Using this path to teach my boy.

    Too many know a portion of computing well but they have no knowledge of recent computing past and present, they are unaware of the underpinnings of their chosen current technology nor how they compare, due to ignorance of the past.

    My motto is: If you don't know the basics then you don't really understand anything.
    Last edited by yereverluvinuncleber; Sep 8th, 2022 at 08:03 AM.
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    There are far older programming languages than Quick Basic... Why not one of those? Also, there are modern alternatives to learn the basics: have you tried programming an Arduino or similar device?

    ReactOS? How is that working out? Most personal attempts to build an OS fail miserably.

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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    Yet another curmudgeon thread.

    I feel that everybody should be able to navigate by map and compass, but I recognize that it isn't a relevant life skill for most people these days. Hell, kids these days, they can't even divide by zero. We couldn't either, of course, but at least we TRIED!!!
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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Swinkels View Post
    ReactOS? How is that working out?
    Yes, working quite well at the moment, gaining a head of steam as far as progress goes. Still a long way to go.
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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    I say we throw all the spoilled brats into the wild and let them experience how our ancestors lived! Those were the days! Ahem...

    EDIT:
    I am going to have a look at that ReactOS.

  23. #23

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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    Peter, Lower your expectations and run one of the daily builds in a VM. Don't try to use it! Just for testing only.

    Get yourself a login ID from the ReactOS site, use that to Join the ReactOS team chat on Mattermost and you'll get an idea of the dynamism of the development team. So much to do but progress is quickening.
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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    @yereverluvinuncleber - Please don't take this the wrong way, but I didn't really have high expectations. I have learned by now I simply can't expect the same quality or support as from a large company. And don't worry, I ran this in a vm. My opinion? It looks like a Windows ME/2000 clone... What's the point? Yeah, you could learn stuff from working on a project like this, but who would use it unless they wished to work on an open-source OS too?

    I have tried using Linux (for example) in the past, and to be honest I finally concluded I like Windows best and never could find a truly good reason to use something else. It's not that I think those open-source OS's are bad or completely useless but I am afraid they're not nearly as great or useful (barring a few exceptions) as some people appear to think. IMHO that is.

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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    Not taken the wrong way at all. Just transferring one machine and major functionality to Linux so I know that feeling of comparison.

    FYI ReactOS is not a Win 2000 clone and you should not draw that conclusion from looks alone. It has to 'look' that way as that is the fundamental default windowing theme for Windows that still exists (though hidden from use) in Win 11 today. You have to build the foundations for the walls above to stand.

    ReactOS look and feel will be themeable in a way that XP and later versions of Windows cannot. All that later Windows GUI 'fluff' will be optional. Opt in or out, it will be up to you.

    Why? Try this: https://reactos.org/forum/viewtopic....123529#p123529
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    People like their fluff. It will? When? I will look at that list at a later time.

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    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    This gave me a good laugh:-
    NSA backdoors less likely due to peer review of the open source codebase allowing monitoring and quick fixing. The code is reviewed by MANY eyes and security flaws are caught and fixed, rather than ignored and buried.
    This almost makes me want to move from Windows......almost
    59. ReactOS will never disable local accounts forcing you to sign up and give Microsoft your details in order to access to the o/s.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  28. #28

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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?



    This for me is one of the most important.
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

  29. #29
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    lol....now that's funny.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    Name:  8c81cd6b6744c99f04c07c6fb2616304.jpg
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    Usually it was Linux not working.

    EDIT:
    I read that entire list concerning ReactOS... I think I am doing well enough thank you very much.
    Last edited by Peter Swinkels; Sep 9th, 2022 at 04:27 AM.

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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    Regarding that image above:

    I find myself in a very strange position. I am a Windows fan boy whose knowledge and created body of works is largely confined to Windows. However, I find myself inevitably drawn to migrating to Linux partly due to the despondency and self-mutilation inspired within me because of that Windows UI and current Microsoft shenannigans. In that respect ReactOS becomes a sort of life raft for the future.
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    I question some of Microsoft’s choices for Windows 11. I will stick with Windows 10 for as long as possible. With luck the next version of Windows will be more to my liking. Fortunately most settings can be hacked. Also I have a tablet and phone I can use. Fortunately a lot can be done online these days and the device you use is mostly a glorified terminal.

    If I feel nostalgic I will just indulge in Windows 3.11 in DOSBox. Or I will remind myself of how unstable 9x was.

  33. #33

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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    Windows 'Me' was a LOT worse.
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    It has a bad reputation. So do Vista and 8.

  35. #35
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    Windows ME was the worst OS ever made. To this day I'm still traumatized by it. I had to do a fresh re-install about every 2 weeks due to it becoming unstable over time, a far cry from today where I do a fresh re-install between every 1 to 3 years.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    How about Windows 3.0? Actually one of the reasons I gave up on Suse Linux was because it offered two types of desktops back then. Too bad my user profile got messed up immediately after switching. People were all like you can customize it much more than Windows! And it's for free! Yeah, and unless you're willing and able to become an expert in the underlying system you're stuck with no support.

  37. #37
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    Linux has typically been for people who are tech savvy, not for Joe Sixpack and his grandma. This isn't changing anytime soon.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

    Copy/move files using Windows Shell | I'm not wanted

    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  38. #38
    Frenzied Member
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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    I realize that, someone who tried shoving Linux down my throat once didn't. And neither did I until I found out Linux wasn't as easy to use as it was made out to be.

  39. #39
    Fanatic Member 2kaud's Avatar
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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    I moved from Windows 3/3.11 to 95 to NT - so I never experienced the 'horror' of either 98 or me. We first used NT/95/3 etc with Netware, then we got our first NT server and ditched Netware. The biggest change really was with 2000 when Active Directory was introduced. That required a lot of enterprise IT re-working...
    All advice is offered in good faith only. You are ultimately responsible for the effects of your programs and the integrity of the machines they run on. Anything I post, code snippets, advice, etc is licensed as Public Domain https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/

    C++23 Compiler: Microsoft VS2022 (17.4.4)

  40. #40

    Thread Starter
    Frenzied Member
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    Re: QB64 site and forum explodes into nothing, then rises like a phoenix?

    '98 wasn't so bad for me once you became used to saving your working document every single 5 mins. Then backing up every 15.
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

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