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Thread: Foreign Aid???

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    Foreign Aid???

    The US has a long history spending large amounts of money on foreign aid. Ukraine is just another example. BUT what I don't understand is why the people and politicians are so eager to help, yet it's so hard to get support for our own people in need of help. The homeless, the hungry, the mentally ill and many other things. The homeless problem in the California is staggering. There is very little support for people with mental health issues. Yet our country is eager to send another $40 billion more in aid to Ukraine.

    I'm not an isolationist and I don't really have a problem with sending aid to Ukraine. What bothers me is we are not interested in helping our own population.

    I shouldn't condemn every on here. We do have many people doing charitable works. But I'm talking more about government supported programs, which will only happen if the people support them.

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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    The homeless, the hungry, the mentally ill and many other things.
    Those all sound worthy to me. I'm not opposed to government support and could imagine both cash and kind (food, medical supplies, care). Add in private support through charities to help fill out the picture.

    Keep in mind that "isolationist" is another slur meant to shut down conversation. What it pretends to cover is actually several spectra where both the amount you support can vary and the forms of interaction you support can vary.

    You might accept a different level of military support as opposed to something else like the health care support we provide. Drug prices are one example of the latter. In the US prices are quite high, but a chunk of that is drug manufacturer subsidy that makes lower drug prices possible elsewhere. That kind of subsidy is everywhere. Look at US cable TV prices vs. prices from the same parent corporations in India or Bulgaria.
    Last edited by dilettante; May 13th, 2022 at 01:49 PM.

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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    Keep in mind that "isolationist" is another slur meant to shut down conversation. What it pretends to cover is actually several spectra where both the amount you support can vary and the forms of interaction you support can vary.
    That's a good point.

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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    uhh this isnt good for chit chat, needs to move to the sub forum (world events)
    chit chat is for ads of your apps,asking programs and useless threats

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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    I think it's a mistake to lump domestic welfare into the same debate as foreign aid. They're not either/or propositions.

    On domestic welfare, I get the impression you guys sit substantially more toward self reliance than we do in Europe and, while I can see the attraction of that point of view, I'm also well aware of it's dark side. Growing up in Nigeria I saw self reliance taken to it's logical conclusion and it looks an awful lot like shanty towns, gangsterism and starvation. That's probably given me a stronger leaning toward a welfare state than most. I see a lot of pictures of what look essentially like shanty towns and tent cities coming out of the US these days which suggests to me that you guys aren't doing enough but I honestly don't know how representative of reality those images are by the time they reach our European media.

    We've got a rising homelessness problem in the UK too. I think this has come from a few sources but chiefly it was the economic downturn combined with the austerity policies of the Tory government. I also think that we've had a tendency to demonise the rental sector over the last 10 years. This is good for the middle classes as it frees up homes for purchase but those at the bottom find the rental stock squeezed to the point where they can no longer afford it and get pushed onto the street (I'm a landlord, though, so I definitely have bias on that front). What we should have been doing is addressing the overall housing stock and doing more to address regional imbalances.

    On Foreign Aid I think we're laudably motivated to do the right thing and I'm happy for some of our tax take to go abroad. My response to the question "why should we help people in the third world when people here are desperate" is "because we can and they're more desperate than we are". A Dollar, Pound or Euro has a lot more purchasing power in the third world than it does in the West so this seems like an obvious win for humanity as a whole.

    I do think we get the model wrong, though, where the Chinese have actually been far more successful and done far more good (in Africa at least). We give aid, the Chinese invest in infrastructure. It's the latter that Africa needs, not the former and, ironically, the Chinese approach is more profitable for them too. I think programs like Fair Trade are a good idea but we never really made it fair and still pay bargain basement prices. Broadly, I don't think Africa is looking for saviours, it's looking for sincere partners.


    Edit>Also, I think Ukraine is another debate again. It really doesn't represent foreign aid in the conventional sense and is arguably military spending under a different name. If you finance the rebuilding of Ukraine after the conflict (which I think we should) I think that would be far close to conventional foreign aid.
    Last edited by FunkyDexter; May 14th, 2022 at 12:08 PM.
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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    China? China?


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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    FD,

    Enjoyed your post but it seem to address a different issue from what I was talking about.

    I think it's a mistake to lump domestic welfare into the same debate as foreign aid. They're not either/or propositions.
    I don't see it as an either/or proposition. My main point was, why is so easy for us to support sending billions in foreign aid but so hard to get support for our own population.

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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    Partly, I would say that it is cultural. The US has always had a certain Calvinist view, and a myth of rugged self reliance (especially out here in the west). The Calvinist view is that if you are suffering, to some extent you deserve it because of your own failings. The flip side of that may be the bigger one for us, though, which is that if you are well off, it's because you deserve it.

    We do seem to laud the rugged self reliance thing, and strongly overlook all the support those who are successful have received. If you went to a top school, it's because of your great qualities...don't pay too much attention to the family that supported you, your upbringing in good early schools, alumni connections, and things like that.

    I'm pretty well aware of how much of what I have is the gift of others. I just wonder how well aware I really am?
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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Partly, I would say that it is cultural. The US has always had a certain Calvinist view, and a myth of rugged self reliance (especially out here in the west). The Calvinist view is that if you are suffering, to some extent you deserve it because of your own failings. The flip side of that may be the bigger one for us, though, which is that if you are well off, it's because you deserve it.

    We do seem to laud the rugged self reliance thing, and strongly overlook all the support those who are successful have received. If you went to a top school, it's because of your great qualities...don't pay too much attention to the family that supported you, your upbringing in good early schools, alumni connections, and things like that.

    I'm pretty well aware of how much of what I have is the gift of others. I just wonder how well aware I really am?
    I also get the same impression. "If your not successful or need help, it's your own fault. If you work hard like I did, you wouldn't need help. "

    Unfortunately I've seen members of my own family (who were hard workers) fail and even become homeless. It also seem many people think personality traits, like addictive personality, are a choice. "Well they shouldn't do those things". If I don't have that problem then nobody should.

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    Addicted Member jg.sa's Avatar
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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    G'Day Guys

    It must be the fact I now have covid because we stopped wearing mask for the Fed. Elec. next week, but never got the shots, but I'm not very sick Y E T and my wife ( 2 shots ) and son ( 3 shots ) are much more sick, so confusing !!!

    Maybe I will be pushing up daisies next week, so I need to move fast to leave a legacy

    You should read -> Dead Aid: Why Aid Is Not Working and How There Is a Better Way for Africa Written by Dambisa Moyo -> https://dambisamoyo.com - yes she is an Economist and not white !!!

    Pls. don't say I'm a racist for the 'not white' phrase, Oz is the only country in the world were you can be in the highest level of Federal Public Service .gov.au ( SES ) and not be born in Australia.

    I have had a high level sec. clear. for decades and I cannot work in Indian public service, India has 120,000,000 untouchables, ppl. I worked with we unhappy when I would ask them about the caste system.

    Back to the book, she wants the cash to go to the education of women among other things.
    Last edited by jg.sa; May 15th, 2022 at 05:37 AM.

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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    G'Day Wes

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    Unfortunately I've seen members of my own family (who were hard workers) fail and even become homeless. It also seem many people think personality traits, like addictive personality, are a choice. "Well they shouldn't do those things". If I don't have that problem then nobody should.
    Imagine a world were there was

    - Universal health and oral care, I have got heart condition A. Fib. due to a tooth I should have had removed 14 years earlier. A community nurse network to take pressure of hospitals, who will be interested in whole of system.
    - Universal wage, Bills ( Billionares ) are dead set against this, no 'slaves' who become working poor.
    - No political parties, in Oz, there is a party who has been in power for decades LNP and the boss is 'Party President' he has been caught taking bribes, can't bride all the politicians if they are independents.
    - Fed. Gov. yearly 'refund' tax payments into an account to allow you to save for retirement, you can use these saving to buy a home.

    These are system design, re-design and from my experience working for .gov.au and gov.nz

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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    Quote Originally Posted by jg.sa View Post
    Back to the book, she wants the cash to go to the education of women among other things.
    I support that. There are few problems we have that can't be solved in the long term by educating women. Educating everybody helps, but the positive impacts are greater from educating women.
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    Re: Foreign Aid???



    But I guess when you hate the messenger the message can't be received.

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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    The US has a long history spending large amounts of money on foreign aid. Ukraine is just another example. BUT what I don't understand is why the people and politicians are so eager to help, yet it's so hard to get support for our own people in need of help. The homeless, the hungry, the mentally ill and many other things. The homeless problem in the California is staggering. There is very little support for people with mental health issues. Yet our country is eager to send another $40 billion more in aid to Ukraine.

    I'm not an isolationist and I don't really have a problem with sending aid to Ukraine. What bothers me is we are not interested in helping our own population.

    I shouldn't condemn every on here. We do have many people doing charitable works. But I'm talking more about government supported programs, which will only happen if the people support them.
    Let me tell you the answer:

    (1) When the U.S. government provide Ukraine with $40 billion in aid, in fact, Ukraine can only get $5-10 billion, and most of this money will be used to buy US weapons and equipment. The remaining $30-35 billion will go back to American businesses, political groups and politicians in a very covert and legal way.

    (2) When the U.S. government aid Ukraine with $40 billion, Ukraine will need to sell its own national interests for a long time to repay the $40 billion. That is to say, Ukraine needs to repay $400-4000 billion to the United States in about 20-50 years. Of course, this repayment is not carried out in cash, but in the form of "internal transactions".

    Why is the U.S. government willing to give Ukraine $40 billion in aid, but not willing to accept Ukrainian refugees? Because receiving refugees cannot achieve the "fund circulation" and "fund appreciation" mentioned above.

    Likewise, why is the U.S. government willing to provide $40 billion in aid to Ukraine, but not financial aid to U.S. citizens? Because providing financial aid to US citizens cannot achieve the "fund circulation" and "fund appreciation" mentioned above.

    I know my answer makes you feel pain and anger, but I'm just offering another way of thinking about the problem.
    Last edited by SearchingDataOnly; May 16th, 2022 at 02:30 AM.

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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    I know my "partisanship" has been called out here a few times but I don't think this topic can be discussed without out it. How much money to spend on social issues, and the desire to spend it, is very much associated with political parties. The republicans used their last turn at the helm to give huge corporate tax breaks of which little of it went to the middle class other than some one time bread crumbs. That also significantly lowered the tax base having long time debt consequences. The democrats get in and want to fund large efforts of social services. They couldn't do it having a majority. I think a common line of thinking is the republicans are more of a "you are own your own it it is your fault if you fail" mindset. The democrats tend to push for more social programs. How much and how to pay for it is part of the conflict between the two.
    Last edited by TysonLPrice; May 16th, 2022 at 05:14 AM.
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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    why is so easy for us to support sending billions in foreign aid but so hard to get support for our own population
    I guess because the drivers are completely different. I get the impression you're really interested in the second part (why is it hard to support domestic population) and are really only holding up the first bit to make the second bit more stark. Am I reading you correct?

    If so, I think holding up the second part is a mistake because they're unrelated but it's not worth dwelling on that because I'm pretty sure I agree with you on the first part. As I said, I don't know how bad domestic poverty has gotten in the US but it's certainly been getting pretty bad over here and I'd like to see more done.

    So addressing the domestic part exclusively, I think I'd point to the same thing that Shaggy mentioned in post 8. It's easy to demonise people as deserving of their financial situation when things go wrong. How often do we see people saying that a generous welfare state sill simply lead to people "taking advantage" of it or implying that people on minimum wage just can't be bothered to find a better job? It's also partly just straight up selfishness... I'm alright Jack.


    You should read
    Haven't read it but given this quote: "Debunking the current model of international aid, Moyo offers a bold new road map for financing development of the world’s poorest countries that guarantees economic growth and a significant decline in poverty—without reliance on foreign aid or aid-related assistance." I suspect I agree with her. I don't think our current model works well (except as a band aid in times of immediate crisis) and an investment and partnership driven would work much better. Indeed, our current model is patronising to the point of being an insult. It's basically the argument I was making up thread.

    Pls. don't say I'm a racist for the 'not white' phrase
    I don't think that came across as racist.
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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    Trump Tax Brackets: Did Your Tax Rate Change?

    Bottom Line

    According to the IRS, tax refunds averaged $2,775 in 2021. This is an 11.2% increase from the previous year when the average return was worth $2,495. While Americans are getting tax cuts, depending on individual taxpayer circumstances, the Joint Committee on Taxation and the Congressional Budget Office said in 2017 that Trump’s tax plan could add over $1 trillion to the national debt by 2027.

    Trump’s tax plan was one of the largest tax code overhauls in decades – lowering individual tax rates, raising standard deductions, and lowering the threshold for medical expense deductions, among other changes. It didn’t affect taxpayers until the 2018 tax year, and many of the benefits will expire by 2025.
    You can't reduce taxation and not incur more debt unless you also cut back spending.

    The middle and working classes both got tax relief and enjoy it to this day. I don't defend the corporate tax breaks because they already have for too many angles in the tax code they can take to reduce their effective tax.

    Democrats claim to back social services while running, but once in office the reality is generally quite different. Things they do back tend to enforce generational poverty, including increased rates of incarceration. Republicans are no saints by any means, but your partisan narrative dooms you to losing either way.

    Watch that Dore video above though. It is pretty clear who the bad guys are right now.

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    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Trump Tax Brackets: Did Your Tax Rate Change?



    You can't reduce taxation and not incur more debt unless you also cut back spending.

    The middle and working classes both got tax relief and enjoy it to this day. I don't defend the corporate tax breaks because they already have for too many angles in the tax code they can take to reduce their effective tax.

    Democrats claim to back social services while running, but once in office the reality is generally quite different. Things they do back tends to enforce generational poverty, including increased rates of incarceration. Republicans are no saints by any means, but your partisan narrative dooms you to losing either way.

    Watch that Dore video above though. It is pretty clear who the bad guys are right now.
    Maybe your are presenting valid information in that link but I stopped bothering to look at them a long time ago. I find few of them credible so I quick looking.

    You can't reduce taxation and not incur more debt unless you also cut back spending.
    True...but the Trump administration lowered the tax base and increased the deficit...at the expense of the middle class.
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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    ...but the Trump administration lowered the tax base and increased the deficit...at the expense of the middle class.
    Who fed you that?

    Have you ever done your own tax return? If so you should be pretty conscious of the reduction you enjoy without reading anything. There is nothing in that article you can't verify by checking the IRS web site yourself.

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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Who fed you that?

    Have you ever done your own tax return? If so you should be pretty conscious of the reduction you enjoy without reading anything. There is nothing in that article you can't verify by checking the IRS web site yourself.
    I know exactly what I got and they got a chunk of it right back at the end of the year...it takes a pretty big "set" to say "who fed me that" with the crap sources you post as reliable.
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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    I thought so.

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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    I thought so.
    What...no link to some ridiculous video? Come on, spend a little time...
    Last edited by TysonLPrice; May 16th, 2022 at 08:32 AM.
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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Who fed you that?

    Have you ever done your own tax return? If so you should be pretty conscious of the reduction you enjoy without reading anything. There is nothing in that article you can't verify by checking the IRS web site yourself.
    I do my taxes by hand each year. Nothing much changed that I was aware of. I'd have to go back a few years to see, but it sure doesn't feel like anything has changed since I paid off my house.
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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    Read the article and check the IRS site to verify the facts if you're paranoid.

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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    Let me tell you the answer:

    (1) When the U.S. government provide Ukraine with $40 billion in aid, in fact, Ukraine can only get $5-10 billion, and most of this money will be used to buy US weapons and equipment. The remaining $30-35 billion will go back to American businesses, political groups and politicians in a very covert and legal way.
    Not covert, and certainly not very covert. Sure, there isn't a lot of fanfare about it, but when you're the biggest arms dealer in the world, and you give somebody military aid based on kit you are creating...well, it isn't coming from anybody else, right?
    (2) When the U.S. government aid Ukraine with $40 billion, Ukraine will need to sell its own national interests for a long time to repay the $40 billion. That is to say, Ukraine needs to repay $400-4000 billion to the United States in about 20-50 years. Of course, this repayment is not carried out in cash, but in the form of "internal transactions".
    Nope. That would be a loan. That's more the Chinese model. Ours is more subtle. We will certainly be repaid, but not in cash.

    Why is the U.S. government willing to give Ukraine $40 billion in aid, but not willing to accept Ukrainian refugees? Because receiving refugees cannot achieve the "fund circulation" and "fund appreciation" mentioned above.
    We're actually accepting Ukrainian refugees at a much higher rate than any others, as far as I can tell. Even those arriving at the Mexican border (that has been closed, now, as they can come directly these days) were treated FAR better than any other immigrant arriving there. There've been stories about that inequity.

    Of course, we're not a great destination for Ukrainians. Most would like to go back. They aren't economic refugees looking for a better life, they've been driven from their homes by a war, and would return if they could. That's a pretty good incentive not to go all that far, and the US is across an ocean. I would expect that the bulk of the Ukrainians arriving in the US have some pre-existing connection to the US, though I don't know for certain.
    Likewise, why is the U.S. government willing to provide $40 billion in aid to Ukraine, but not financial aid to U.S. citizens? Because providing financial aid to US citizens cannot achieve the "fund circulation" and "fund appreciation" mentioned above.
    Nope. Take a look at the COVID stimulus payments. Those amounted to FAR more than $40 billion, and were directly paid to US citizens.

    [QUOTE
    I know my answer makes you feel pain and anger, but I'm just offering another way of thinking about the problem.[/QUOTE]

    More like a mild amusement. Your data is faulty, but your reasoning isn't so bad.
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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    We're actually accepting Ukrainian refugees at a much higher rate than any others, as far as I can tell.
    We're doing a terrible job in the UK, I'm afraid. Really disappointed in my government right now.
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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    The homeless, the hungry, the mentally ill and many other things. The homeless problem in the California is staggering. There is very little support for people with mental health issues.
    Perhaps you're more focused on this problem rather than the budgets spent on overseas aid and military adventures?

    If so maybe separating it out might be worth discussing, because the vested interests behind the spending outside the country are unlikely to back down and accept less pork.

    I'm sure the problem is worse in different parts of the country too, which makes it a more local problem just like hurricane impacts and wildfire devastation.

    Most of what I found just gave aggregate totals by State, which doesn't seem fair given the variation in population size and density. It was hard to find a picture that gave a per-capita view of homelessness, but I did find a pre-COVID map here:

    https://www.businessinsider.com/map-...-state-2019-11

    A per-capita view by county might help give a truer picture but I haven't found one. The scale used is disappointing as well, "Over 20 per 10,000" as the maximum on that scale probably obscures a lot of detail. Can the homeless rates in California and Nevada and Vermont really be as similar as the map suggests? Wisconsin "looks good" but places like Milwaukee might have a lot of concentrated homelessness.

    Mental health is even harder to find easy to digest overviews for, but that's probably a more nuanced topic as well with different kinds and degrees of illnesses.


    I assume you aren't talking about the impact of currently rising inflation. That's a painful topic too, but might just dilute this discussion.

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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    The numbers in the states give somewhat finer detail than just the colors (CA is 33 while VT is 21, for example), but I'd say you are right about that criticism. Breaking those numbers down by county would be quite interesting. On the one hand, I would expect you to be right when you suggest that places like Milwaukee might have concentrated homelessness. You'd also expect places like San Diego to have concentrated homelessness. On the other hand, I've encountered 'homeless' people camped out in some very remote areas in unpopulated places. At some point, those folks blur the definition of homeless, but they should probably count as such. The thing is, that while these people are rare and hard to find, they are hard to find because the population of the county is low, so as a percentage, the homeless rate might be as high as many cities.

    Looking a bit more at the map, the difference between VT and NH is interesting. I'd expect them to be about the same, but they are not. Cost of housing appears somewhat higher in NH, property taxes are much higher in NH (or at least they were, my information is out of date), both are mostly rural with a few small cities, and yet the rate in VT is quite a bit higher than NH. Very strange.
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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    I assume you aren't talking about the impact of currently rising inflation. That's a painful topic too, but might just dilute this discussion.
    No, nothing like that. I was talking about the selective nature of our willingness to help people. Try asking for an additional 40 billion to address the homeless or the mentally ill.

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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    I just came away with an uneasy feeling that you can take cursory glances at figures and come away thinking "ah, not a serious problem here" and turn a blind eye. Then you not only can't get more support for assistance, you also can't get support for correcting the conditions that lead to the problem.

    The homeless thing can get weird. I've seen vloggers prancing through some fancy areas turning the camera on sidewalk squats with wrinkled noses as they weave through them to get into upscale skate parks, beaches, boutique shops, and eateries while shiny SUVs and convertibles whiz by on the street. The contrast between haves and have-nots can be breathtaking.

    Other places lack the gold-plated amenities and parade of personal excess but they also have a much less visible homeless situation. Could be a difference in degree, a difference in providing the homeless with places to go, or some of each.

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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    Other places lack the gold-plated amenities and parade of personal excess but they also have a much less visible homeless situation. Could be a difference in degree, a difference in providing the homeless with places to go, or some of each.
    That map you posted was interesting. Though I've seen more recent CA number and they were quite a bit higher. But what was interesting was the poorer states have much lower numbers. I don't know why. Can you even trust those numbers??? We had one small town near Modesto that the police would pick up the homeless and drive them to Modesto and drop them off. lol

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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    Maybe those who are younger are more mobile and/or have broken family ties. That might make them likely to try to travel where other young people predominate, where it is warmer, where they hear it is easier to live on the street, etc.


    I knew a guy who was older and semi-homeless in Canada. He had fled the draft in the 1960s and such people were not exactly ever welcomed with open arms without their own money or a job already awaiting them.

    He got chased out of Toronto, ended up in the SW Ontario ag region living in a barn apartment in exchange for working as a habitant growing tobacco and tomatoes. Totally off the books: no passport, no driver's license, no path to citizenship.

    I met him through a girlfriend back in the day. We went to help him with his second job, though I'm pretty sure he was just humoring us and wanted non-judgmental company. He had been in school for wildlife biology but never completed his Masters before fleeing. But he could stay off the grid by doing wildlife biology fieldwork for others with credentials. When we were there we assisted with trapping and banding migrating hawks.

    Quiet man, but clearly beaten down. At least he had his "hobby" and the self respect and respect of remote colleagues that came with it. He had lots of questions but long pauses came between them.

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    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    The US has a long history spending large amounts of money on foreign aid. Ukraine is just another example. BUT what I don't understand is why the people and politicians are so eager to help, yet it's so hard to get support for our own people in need of help. The homeless, the hungry, the mentally ill and many other things. The homeless problem in the California is staggering. There is very little support for people with mental health issues. Yet our country is eager to send another $40 billion more in aid to Ukraine.

    I'm not an isolationist and I don't really have a problem with sending aid to Ukraine. What bothers me is we are not interested in helping our own population.

    I shouldn't condemn every on here. We do have many people doing charitable works. But I'm talking more about government supported programs, which will only happen if the people support them.
    A little pre-warning. Please don't take what I'm about to say as an attack on you.

    This is exactly why I'm critical of mainstream media. It keeps so many people asleep, numb and ignorant about how things work in this world. There is no excuse in the age of the internet to be this naïve. Foreign aid is not about foreign aid. Most of us will never know what that 40 billion is really buying until 70 years later when government documents related to it get declassified and someone makes a documentary about it. By that time anybody who would have cared about what the 40 billion really bought would be long dead or pissing themselves in a retirement home somewhere while struggle to eat with a spoon.
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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    A little pre-warning. Please don't take what I'm about to say as an attack on you.

    This is exactly why I'm critical of mainstream media. It keeps so many people asleep, numb and ignorant about how things work in this world. There is no excuse in the age of the internet to be this naïve. Foreign aid is not about foreign aid. Most of us will never know what that 40 billion is really buying until 70 years later when government documents related to it get declassified and someone makes a documentary about it. By that time anybody who would have cared about what the 40 billion really bought would be long dead or pissing themselves in a retirement home somewhere while struggle to eat with a spoon.
    You seem to have missed the whole point of this thread, which I've stated more than once. It has nothing to do with what the government actually spends the money on, it has nothing to do with politics.

    My main point was, why is so easy for us to support sending billions in foreign aid but so hard to get support for our own population.
    I was talking about the selective nature of our willingness to help people.
    But at least you got to tell us how dumb you think people are again. So there's that.

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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    List of countries by homeless population is interesting, giving homeless per 10,000 people for many countries.

    The UK looks 3 times as bad as the US.

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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    List of countries by homeless population is interesting, giving homeless per 10,000 people for many countries.

    The UK looks 3 times as bad as the US.
    That is an interesting chart. Europe isn't doing all that great. I just checked my county and we have about twice the US average.

    All this homeless talk reminded me of my grandfather on my moms side. He was a hobo. Actually road the rails. I use to like it when he would show up out of nowhere. Of course I was a very young and didn't realize his problems.

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    The UK looks 3 times as bad as the US.
    Wouldn't surprise me. I'm seeing lots of it round my way. I think it's probably as bad as I've seen it since the 80s, possibly worse.
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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    Really disappointed in my government right now.
    Only right now FD? what about the rest of the time?
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    Re: Foreign Aid???

    Foreign aid is important, helping people and countries less fortunate than ourselves is a good thing for many reasons both morally and more selfishly in that a better more stable world means less displacement of people and better global economics which in turn helps us all.


    You should read -> Dead Aid: Why Aid Is Not Working and How There Is a Better Way for Africa Written by Dambisa Moyo -> https://dambisamoyo.com - yes she is an Economist and not white !!!

    Pls. don't say I'm a racist for the 'not white' phrase, Oz is the only country in the world were you can be in the highest level of Federal Public Service .gov.au ( SES ) and not be born in Australia.
    Its perfectly reasonable to argue that Foreign Aid could and should be done better, with less money going missing, and more being spent in the right places. I am sure there are great example of Aid programmes working and really bad ones, and if we are not prepared to learn and do thing better then at times we will be throwing away public money.

    You really didn't even need to mention the authors skin colour or ask people to not label you racist. In fact if you had just left that bit out I wouldn't have even thought of the link.
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