WinUI

[dday9]

I'm curious, has anyone done any WinUI development other than just little test projects?

I looked into it for a client, but it doesn't look like it is in a production ready state. For example, just to change the window title requires a work around.

I also don't care for XAML all that much and I thought that was one of the biggest knocks against WPF, so I'm curious why Microsoft stuck with that decision if anyone has a crystal ball.

[dilettante]

It is shocking how many times they have tried pulling the wooden stake from the heart of Metro.

[Niya]

I also don't care for XAML all that much and I thought that was one of the biggest knocks against WPF, so I'm curious why Microsoft stuck with that decision if anyone has a crystal ball.

I actually think this was a good decision by Microsoft. In my opinion, describing a UI purely through code such as in WinForms or through an inaccessible mechanic such as in VB6 is archaic and clumsy. The success of HTML proves that defining a UI through a declarative language is a far better approach. This is what XAML seeks to capture. XAML like HTML tells the system what you want your UI to look like rather than telling it how to do so.

That being said, XAML isn't anywhere near perfect. There are some things about it I don't like, at least in regards to WPF which is the only flavor of XAML I've used thus far. For example, I dislike the styling system in WPF. It is inflexible and overly verbose. HTML's way of styling visual elements through CSS is far superior. I don't know why Microsoft didn't just mimic that when they created WPF. I have a number of other such gripes with WPF's XAML but I understand and support the overall idea of having something like XAML to build UIs.

[SearchingDataOnly]

I've also been thinking about WinUI, because I've been hesitating whether my new project's UI should be built with web technologies (Html+CSS) or with VB6.

I can easily simulate a VSCode UI with VB6, but it's extremely difficult for me to build a VSCode-like UI with Html+CSS, and this UI can easily interact with my VB6-COM components .

But it's frustrating to continue using VB6 to create WinUI, because the UI-related VB6 code can't be reused in web projects at all.

Here's a thread I posted 50 days ago:

XML-based UI lib (DirectUI)

I'm thinking of an UI lib (DirectUI), which draws various UI-elements directly on a canvas by reading XML configuration parameters. I wonder if this way is feasible? Is there a ready-made, XML-based DirectUI lib that can be used by VB6? Thanks!

In addition, what are the ways (or technical solutions) to quickly develop a UI similar to VsCode?

[Niya]

At this point I think it's down right criminal we aren't using HTML everywhere to create UIs. For all it's flaws, the one thing you can be certain of is that it will run anywhere and it would look the same everywhere.

[dday9]

@niya - at this point I’m much more inclined to use ionic with angular to build a desktop application rather than use WinUI just because HTML with CSS is so much easier to work with (in my opinion) rather than XAML. If I needed something to leverage desktop specific code then I’d rather bite the bullet and use WinForms and sacrifice the visually pleasantries. I’ve looked at WPF numerous times and the learning curve of XAML just isn’t worth it to me.

@SearchingDataOnly - I’d push back a little bit, making something like Visual Studio Code would more or less be the same level of difficulty either way. Where things would get tricky is implementing a terminal in the application using a web based approach. I’m not even sure it is feasible.

Edit - @Niya - thinking of this some more, just from a position of marketing myself, I don’t see a justification to learn XAML. Then again, that might just be the enterprise software that I write. If I write more non-business user facing software, I may feel different.

[SearchingDataOnly]

When my kids were in elementary school, they had their own desktop computers with Windows inside. When they find the electronic dictionary in their computer inconvenient to use, I will spend a few days developing a better electronic dictionary for them.

Later, when they were in junior high school, they had a lot of exam papers to manage, and I would spend a few days developing a paper management system for them.

Later, when they were in high school, they had their own iPads and MacBooks, and they asked if I could develop a learning system for them that could be installed on iPads and MacBooks, and I was silent.

[dday9]

I think WinUI tries to solve that using a Microsoft stack. I just don’t think they do it well.

[ChrisE]

for Desktop stuff I just use Powershell to create Forms, WinUI might look nicer

[SearchingDataOnly]

The reason why I came up with XML-based UI lib (DirectUI) is this:

Try to develop a simple WebBrowser similar to IE or Chrome in VB6. This WebBrowser can parse HTML, CSS and JS, and draw corresponding pages according to HTML and CSS. At the same time, this simple WebBrowser can easily interact with VB6.

Maybe my idea is too naive, but it is theoretically feasible.

[Shaggy Hiker]

At this point I think it's down right criminal we aren't using HTML everywhere to create UIs. For all it's flaws, the one thing you can be certain of is that it will run anywhere and it would look the same everywhere.

That's not true. Try running it on IE4.

It took a lot of effort to get the variety of web engines to be consistent in their implementation of HTML, then HTML5, and there will be subsequent iterations. I'd be surprised if all web engines were fully compliant, even now, though perhaps they have all gotten on board.

I was also under the impression that there were parts of the standard that were left essentially optional, or up to the browser to decide.

The same thing happened with C++ back in the 90s into the early aughts. The standard was there, compliance was not, but compliance got better and better with each subsequent generation. And then there will be new standards, and the whole cycle will repeat.

I've never been a fan of HTML. It started out as a simple thing, then got all kinds of other stuff bolted onto it. It's quite functional, but is it ideal? I'd say that it probably is not.

[NeedSomeAnswers]

@niya - at this point I’m much more inclined to use ionic with angular to build a desktop application rather than use WinUI just because HTML with CSS is so much easier to work with (in my opinion) rather than XAML. If I needed something to leverage desktop specific code then I’d rather bite the bullet and use WinForms and sacrifice the visually pleasantries. I’ve looked at WPF numerous times and the learning curve of XAML just isn’t worth it to me.

Yeah I agree, the only reason to learn XAML is to do Xamarin Mobile development and the only reason to do a mobile app over a web app is if you need access to some phone specific stuff such as sensors or notifications that you cant get access to if your not a native app.

I am surprised you even looked at WinUI. Very few people are writing apps for the desktop anymore, everything I do now is web based and will remain so until something better comes along.

[dday9]

I am surprised you even looked at WinUI. Very few people are writing apps for the desktop anymore, everything I do now is web based and will remain so until something better comes along.

For the majority of my contract work, I will typically implement PLCs and Vision Systems into a custom built human machine interface. I have a client who cans food (PLCs for the pressurizers) who is doing a rewrite of a legacy VB6 application and I figured that I would look into it as apart of my due diligence.

Edit - in case you haven't guessed, he's going with WinForms.

[SearchingDataOnly]

Edit - in case you haven't guessed, he's going with WinForms.

Yes, many old VB6 programs will be upgraded to WinForms. After 10 years, they will upgrade from WinForms to Web-Apps again.

In fact, they could totally keep using VB6 programs (or just make some simple enhancements to VB6 programs), and then wait until 10 years later to upgrade directly to Web-Apps.

[dday9]

I think this person's main issue is vendor lock-in. Their last in-house guy demanded too much (and was a pain to work with), so they decided to can him (no pun intended) and switch to an architecture with much broader support.

[dilettante]

Ahh, so you mean Java. That also includes possibilities such as B4J if you want to write in Basic.

[dday9]

No, I mean .NET.

This client wants to use C#, but my other clients are fine with VB.