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Thread: Musk buys Twitter

  1. #1

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    Musk buys Twitter

    It is at the top of the news:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/techn...lon-musk-deal/

    There are a few folks here that can discuss the impact better than I. My gut feeling is it some kind of publicity stunt. But Musk is not a fool, so far, so I'm thinking he sees substance. I thought I read two other big investees looked and passed. I think Buffet and an another big group.

    He wants to make it a platform of "free speech". Whose though? Plus governments across the globe have country by country restrictions on the internet. Free speech in China ...Honest reporting of free speech in Russia on the war in Ukraine ...the election wasn't stolen in the US
    Will India allow open criticism of the caste system that doesn't exist. Who killed Kennedy

    I sense crash and burn...
    Last edited by TysonLPrice; Apr 25th, 2022 at 06:46 PM.
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    He wants to make it a platform of "free speech". Whose though?
    Such a revealing sentiment. You can almost taste the fear in those scare quotes.

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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Yeah, it wont have any effect (at least not directly) on me. Have never used Twitter.

    Musk seem to show his true colors in 2020 when he was throwing a fit about any of the COVID rules that would effect production at his car plant here in Ca.

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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Such a revealing sentiment. You can almost taste the fear in those scare quotes.
    It's also rather revealing that you quote that part in an effort to imply something and ignore the examples of free speech that almost certainly won't be allowed that have nothing to do with that implication. It's also telling that those who bleat the loudest about free speech are more than happy to block speech that they don't like as well and Elon Musk's history suggests that he will be no different. No reason to expect you to put any thought into that though, when there's Jimmy Dore videos to watch.

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    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Someone I know said that he is getting to Howard Hughes' level. I had to look up who that was.
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    I think it is awesome.

    I am certainly no right-winger, but when the Biden administration says that it coordinates with social media then I can see where conservatives have a valid complaint about censorship.

    I personally canít wait to see MTG go full weird posts again.
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    I vowed to avoid topics like this on this forum so I will say only this and no more: If Elon Musk actually does what he says he said he wants to do, it will be the best thing to ever happen to a major social media platform in the last 10 years. It's about time someone fought back against the madness. We couldn't ask for a better ally than the richest man on Earth. I really hope he is the man we think he is.
    Last edited by Niya; Apr 25th, 2022 at 09:41 PM.
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  8. #8
    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    I really hope he is the man we think he is.
    From the sound of it, I don't think he is the man that you think he is from the outset. There's worse, no doubt, but there's better. To be frank, I don't think anyone that rich is ever going to be a genuine ally to the people because I don't think that anyone who was a genuine ally to the people would ever get that rich in the first place. He'd be far more concerned with the welfare of his workers, for a start.

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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    From the sound of it, I don't think he is the man that you think he is from the outset. There's worse, no doubt, but there's better. To be frank, I don't think anyone that rich is ever going to be a genuine ally to the people because I don't think that anyone who was a genuine ally to the people would ever get that rich in the first place. He'd be far more concerned with the welfare of his workers, for a start.
    Speaking only for myself, I don't expect the man to be a saint. In fact I'd prefer that he wasn't. But if he is actually willing to combat the insanity that has been allowed to fester and grow on major social media platforms then I say we need him more than ever. It has gone unchallenged for too long. It needs to stop and if it takes Elon Musk to start fighting back then I'm all for it, despite his flaws.

    I'm just gonna wait and see what happens.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    No reason to expect you to put any thought into that though, when there's Jimmy Dore videos to watch.
    Wow, is Dore still free? Is he still doing videos? Did he do one on this topic?

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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Wow, is Dore still free? Is he still doing videos? Did he do one on this topic?
    You naughty naughty boy......Yep, I saw what was there before
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Lol!

  13. #13
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Well Twitter was givin' the X on a lot of posts so the road was to block "free speech" so if that road stays put then Musk wouldena really have to do anything, so let's hope he "does something". Personally I'm skeptic by nature so we just have to wait and see.
    Also...I know a guy, that posted some perfectly innocent strip dance at his home, 4 days ago and that was removed from Twitter and I got mad!...I mean he got mad and when,arr, when I heard that I got mad for him, that is...That's what I meant...

    P.S. I only have a Twitter account for my band to be, but never used it. Personally I don't have any social media accounts.I'm old school on that. I have some accounts for flee market and such but that's about it.I don't know, I get irritated just thinking of posting stuff and I really don't have the 24/7 social posting bug and I never will, probably.
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    There are plenty of social media sites that will allow you to post anything you want. There have been plenty or attempts to kick start right wing sites in the wake of Trump's twitter ban, some have had some little traction like Parler, others have simply disappeared into obscurity. Sites like 4Chan have been around for years with less of a political bias but very few rules. You'll argue that sites like Facebook and Twitter are curtailing your free speech but they really aren't - they censor very little and what censorship they do usually consists of simply putting some piece of content behind an advisory. This does not curtail the speaker, it simply advises the listener. The rhetoric that your free speech is being eroded really doesn't stand up to examination and smacks of a martyr complex.

    If you find yourself looking at the internet and thinking "I can't find anywhere here to express my views" it's almost certainly because your views are unwelcome to the vast majority of people. If people wanted to hear what you had to say I can guarantee that some entrepreneur would set up a platform that allowed you to say it.

    I sense crash and burn...
    I agree. It will last until someone starts posting some truly hateful crap at which point Musk will bow to the commercial imperative.
    Last edited by FunkyDexter; Apr 26th, 2022 at 03:29 AM.
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Wow, is Dore still free? Is he still doing videos?
    Funnily enough, the obvious answers to those questions rather undermine the point you seem to be trying to make.

  16. #16
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Well to be fair I don't do social media but an example I have is from Greece.
    When the covid broke and people started to question some methods on youtube, for example vaccine and lockdowns, youtube started giving out yellows, that was a complain from the people that posted so they had, for example when saying vaccines to mime the vaccination gesture and not speak it out.
    Also the social media that are more free are not that popular. There is no point on going to IJusthadanepiphany netowrk and post stuff.
    From my point of view freedom of speech means freedom of speech. With some stand out exceptions like racism(tho that take a lot of conversation of what is really racism) and kid abuse or sell human organs on social, the heavy stuff, everything else should not be monitored...And strip shows at 4 in the morning...

    P.S. The issue is that currently we are in a sphere that is pre determined of how people should act on social media and the rules are getting more and more specific. If Musk thinks out of the box and can force that to people then something good may come out, because, and I don't want to sound smarty or anything but most of the people are cowed on what their behavior must be on social media, so if they cowed one way or the other and Musk can accomplish, I mean uncow them,then that may make a difference...Or not...
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    I think it is awesome.

    I am certainly no right-winger, but when the Biden administration says that it coordinates with social media then I can see where conservatives have a valid complaint about censorship.

    I personally canít wait to see MTG go full weird posts again.
    If the current administration asking big tech companies to stop spreading misinformation and help spread information about the benefits of vaccines upsets conservatives I say they "don't have a valid complaint".
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    From my point of view freedom of speech means freedom of speech. With some stand out exceptions like racism(tho that take a lot of conversation of what is really racism) and kid abuse or sell human organs on social, the heavy stuff, everything else should not be monitored...And strip shows at 4 in the morning...
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  19. #19
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    the social media that are more free are not that popular
    Agreed but ask yourself why. The answer is because the things you want to be able to say are things that other people don't want to listen to. If other people wanted to listen to them, those platforms would be popular.

    To put it another way, you have a right to free speech. What you don't have is a right to be listened to.
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  20. #20
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Weeelll it depends.
    Just to be clear I'm not confronting, we just exchange ideas.
    If by popular we mean Tik Toc or however it's written then I'll pass and we really can't say that people did not want to listen on covid or lockdowns. If so we go on the cowed opinion I expressed.
    Also let me put something else on the table and look a little further and see p.e. if voting was done in the future by "acclaimed" social media addresses or referendums where passed that way.
    I'm play evil Musk right now but I have a tendency for the "absurd" .
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  21. #21
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    I'm not confronting, we just exchange ideas
    Yeah, I know

    If so we go on the cowed opinion I expressed
    But consider who's really doing the cowing and why. It's tempting to think that it's the companies or the government but it's not, it's society at large (using the free market as a vehicle). If the things you want to say are likely to drive other people away from a platform then you can expect the owners of that platform to curtail those topics because they represent lost revenue but let's be clear, it's not the owners of the platform driving that, it's public opinion. This is not new, society has always policed it's members and ostracised those with views it finds unacceptable.

    Musk isn't a champion of free speech but he is betting that there's a market for a platform that allows content other platforms currently consider beyond the pale. But if he finds that any given topic starts affecting his bottom line you can bet your bottom dollar he will shut that topic down in a heart beat.

    if voting was done in the future by "acclaimed" social media addresses
    That would be where I'd check out because we'd be living in a true dystopia. I don't think it's really relevant here though, nobody is even considering taking away your right to vote.
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    I agree the cowing is done on social level and the companies than can take over and do stuff.
    I mean consider why Facebook has those crazy stuff Tik Toc has and why Twitter is more "serious" (just to give an example, for what I know Tok can be more serious than facebook)

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post

    That would be where I'd check out because we'd be living in a true dystopia. I don't think it's really relevant here though, nobody is even considering taking away your right to vote.
    Aha...I did not mean to take away the right to vote, that would be too obvious. (think cowing + platform control)
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  23. #23

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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Such a revealing sentiment. You can almost taste the fear in those scare quotes.
    I can't stop you from gleaning out of my statement what suits you but I can tell you how wrong you are about it.

    I wonder how Twitter and Musk's electric cars will go over in China. He will be able to sell the cars but not advertise them on Twitter. Is that the "town hall", "free speech" platform Musk envisions?
    Last edited by TysonLPrice; Apr 26th, 2022 at 05:24 AM.
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    freedom of speech means freedom of speech. With some stand out exceptions
    Freedom means freedom... except when it doesn't. This is a right-wing staple (which doesn't mean that I'm necessarily calling you right-wing). So many people bleat about freedom but the fact is that they simply draw their line in a different place. Just look at Florida right now. How many people who go on and on about freedom of speech are cheering about the restriction of speech in schools while hiding behind the obvious lie of protecting children from grooming. I think that gun control is another perfect example. People will point to the Second Amendment and claim that they can have whatever gum they want because it says that the people's access to arms will not be restricted at all, but even those people believe in certain arms being restricted and even access to all arms being restricted for certain people. They'll claim that the founders didn't mean that people could carry bazookas while also claiming that the founders did mean assault rifles. Basically, it comes down to "freedom means what I say it means, which means that the things I want should be free and anything else shouldn't be". People may claim that I'm a hypocrite because I want to place restrictions on people too, but that argument fails because I'm not the one bleating about freedom in the first place. Of course I want as much freedom as possible for as many people as possible, but I'll state from the outset that I know that freedom needs to be curtailed in many situations for the sake of individuals and society at large. I find that right-wingers are generally not willing to sacrifice any of their own personal freedom for the sake of others. That seems to be one of the defining differences between left-wing and right-wing thinking these days, in my opinion.

  25. #25
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Yes but you went on a rampage freedom hunt, I was speaking for the social media.
    We can go there but that is another story.
    I don't know what left-right wing means and I don't put myself into labels. That is an invention, and a good one may I add, to control people.
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    Yes but you went on a rampage freedom hunt, I was speaking for the social media.
    The principle is the same though. You said that freedom is freedom but then indicated what you think shouldn't be free. Why shouldn't people be free to be racist on social media? Whatever answer you give can almost certainly be applied to other things too, some of which you might not think should be restricted. It's just where you draw the line on what should be free and what shouldn't. Saying "freedom is freedom" is meaningless unless you are talking about completely unfettered freedom, but the only people who really believe in that a libertarian nutjobs.
    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    I don't know what left-right wing means and I don't put myself into labels.
    That you don't apply labels to yourself doesn't necessarily mean that they don't apply. Ideally, labels should be descriptive and people who meet the description can be grouped by that label for useful purposes. This is a problem across the board but one glaring example that I've been considering for a while is the right-wing position on transgender people. They talk about people denying reality and blah, blah but that's crap, because transgender people don't deny that their sex is what they were born with. If they did then they wouldn't consider themselves transgender, because specifically means that their gender doesn't match their sex. What these people really want is to create a "man" box and a "woman" box and put everyone into one of those boxes based on their criteria so that they can then deal with those people in one of the two ways they feel conformable with. Instead of letting people be what they want to be and dealing with them on that basis, they insist that others be what they feel comfortable dealing with. I had something else to say to tie this back in but I got distracted and forgot what it was. I may come back to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    That is an invention, and a good one may I add, to control people.
    You mean like race?

  27. #27
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    It's not the same. There are some basic principles in western civilization like kids abuse that makes a western civilization.
    I don't apply labels to parties , I would for example apply a label to me and say that I'm a programmer (a lousy one but still ) or a rock music afficionado.

    If race is left or right wing then , yes I mean race. Is it?
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    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    I don't apply labels to parties
    I didn't say anything about political parties.
    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    If race is left or right wing then , yes I mean race. Is it?
    I give up.

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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    If the current administration asking big tech companies to stop spreading misinformation and help spread information about the benefits of vaccines upsets conservatives I say they "don't have a valid complaint".
    You do not have to be completely partisan all the time.

    The current presidential administration asking big tech companies to censor information is a soft form of authoritarianism, something I thought you would oppose in all forms after the Trump administration.
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    You do not have to be completely partisan all the time.

    The current presidential administration asking big tech companies to censor information is a soft form of authoritarianism, something I thought you would oppose in all forms after the Trump administration.
    I don't see it quite that way...I don't see putting pressure on a giant social media network to not publish content that harms people as being censorship. It is a plea for civility and social common good. A recent article alluded that perhaps a quarter of the Covid deaths could have been prevented by vaccinations. An attempt to quash the deliberate misinformation that caused that rises above censorship in my opinion.
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Then I am very glad that you are not in charge.

    Principles like freedom of speech are very easy to defend. Arbitrary restrictions that only apply when you as and individual feel queasy about certain speech is much more difficult.
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    Then I am very glad that you are not in charge.

    Principles like freedom of speech are very easy to defend. Arbitrary restrictions that only apply when you as and individual feel queasy about certain speech is much more difficult.
    I'm not talking about arbitrary restrictions that people want to "spare" their delicate feelings. I'm talking about public heath in a society. I guess if you were in charge yelling "fire!" in a crowed theater is free speech regardless if it harms people.

    I liked jmcilhinney's post #24. I hope I didn't miss the point but I took it that free speech is in the eyes/mouths of the speaker. The post was more about freedom in general but I think it applies here also.
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  33. #33
    King of sapila
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    It is a plea for civility and social common good
    Adolf Hitler, February 1920
    ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ
    πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν·

  34. #34
    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    Arbitrary restrictions that only apply when you as and individual feel queasy about certain speech is much more difficult.
    Whether you agree with it or not, it's not arbitrary at all to want to prevent the spread of information that is known to be false and that cannot help anyone and will definitely hurt people. If you don't feel more than queasy at the knowledge that millions of people died needlessly because of COVID misinformation then I'm glad you're not in charge either.

  35. #35

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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    Adolf Hitler, February 1920
    I would love to see a reference to that quote...and not from "Nazi Racial Hygiene"
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  36. #36
    King of sapila
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    And who decides what is false or not?
    As our esteemed colleague mentioned there was a "cut" for covid , content. In the end even now people are spread in between and of course situation has changed but back then they censorship the heck out of it. So precautions censorship? Are we going to the stone age again people?
    ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ
    πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν·

  37. #37
    King of sapila
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17128531

    And in any way, you waiting to see if Hitler said it or not so you can take it back is not a good sing for the quote by itself. It's a friendly comment btw don't be taking it wrong, again.
    ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ
    πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν·

  38. #38
    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    I liked jmcilhinney's post #24. I hope I didn't miss the point but I took it that free speech is in the eyes/mouths of the speaker. The post was more about freedom in general but I think it applies here also.
    Quite so. So many Americans go on endlessly about free speech when it simply doesn't apply, i.e. constitutionally-protected free speech applies only to governmental restrictions, so what a social network chooses to restrict or not has nothing to do with that. If we're talking about free speech independent of the US constitution then it would only be a minority that would advocate for no restrictions at all.

    I think that this demonstrates right-wing hypocrisy yet again. When it comes to same-sex marriage, how many times did you hear someone argue that gay people were asking for special rights rather than equal rights because everyone already had the equal right to marry? Now the same people are complaining that they are the ones being censored when everyone is working under the same rules and it's just them who are the ones spreading the disinformation? If I spread equivalent disinformation, I'd expect to be censored equally.

  39. #39
    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    And who decides what is false or not?
    Gee, I don't know. Maybe courts that hear evidence or maybe scientific research. Are you trying to say that nothing should be considered false just in case?

  40. #40
    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    It's a friendly comment btw don't be taking it wrong, again.
    Yeah, I'm always telling friends they're Hitler and they always take it the wrong way.

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