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Thread: Musk buys Twitter

  1. #1001
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    How is that even possible? Don't you run into an issue with the time delay required between posts?
    Is it national glitch day already?
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  2. #1002
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I know somebody who, rather notoriously, got in a fight with a shrub, or small sapling. It didn't go well for the guy, and the shrub didn't seem to care.
    There is a very funny video of a man "fighting" with it's own reflation in the mirror while drunk. I'm trying to find it...

    Got i!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aESRbTup2o

    (on a side note, this is actually a video of a song promoting violence, so I dare you to click it!...Or it's not....Or is it?)
    Last edited by sapator; Dec 1st, 2022 at 10:36 AM. Reason: vaxbed the shrub!
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  3. #1003

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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    How is that even possible? Don't you run into an issue with the time delay required between posts?
    Yes I did and duplicate posts. I saw all those Carlson clips and was cutting and pasting. I didn't realize I was doing them over and over again. Just a brain fart.
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  4. #1004
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    The sad part is that only one of them was, which means that you're still posting at least one video of Tucker Carlson as though he has anything worthwhile to say. That's significantly more than anyone should. Tucker has a lot of catching up to do to be right as often as a broken clock.
    I'd say the even sadder thing is his lack of credibility is well know but Fox keeps him on the air. Which must mean he has a large following. Actually I think that is more scary than sad.

  5. #1005

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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    I'd say the even sadder thing is his lack of credibility is well know but Fox keeps him on the air. Which must mean he has a large following. Actually I think that is more scary than sad.
    Tucker Carlson is the most popular cable news host in US history...kind of pathetic.
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    I'm dating myself here, lol!
    I have a twitchy middle finger that makes a lot of computer games pretty much unplayable. I love the XCom series but I frequently spontaneously send my most valued psycher to stand one square in front of a sectopod.
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  7. #1007
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    You flip off computer games? Seems kind of pointless.
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  8. #1008
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    I saw all those Carlson clips and...

  9. #1009
    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    It's hardly that with Tucker Carlson. You might argue that he really does believe what he says and the legal strategy of claiming that no reasonable person should take him seriously is just a legal strategy and no more but what, then, does that say about his level of honesty, to claim that at all? No one is simply ignoring Tucker Carlson. We're using logic and reason to conclude that the umpteenth wolf is at least as unlikely to be real as any that came before it and that, if he does say something worthwhile, it will be by the principle of the broken clock and there will undoubtedly be less punchable faces to get the same information from.

    Of course, if you would actually provide some context for the videos you post then people might be more inclined to actually watch some of them. You actually did on one of those about Tucker Carlson but that is such an outlier that it's no surprise some people missed it. I'm not going to watch a video unless I'm given a reason to do so and I think that many others here are going to be the same, so if you expect us to watch anything then you should provide that reason. If you fail to do so almost every time, don't be surprised if people's experience leads them to believe that you've failed to do so again on the rare occasions that you haven't. You don't have to provide such information if you don't want to but it's then on you if people don't watch the videos you post.

  10. #1010
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    I was over at my neighbors' tonight and they brought freeing Twitter up. They are 1st generation immigrants from India and getting old now too (she's in her late 60s, he's early 70s) but have been in the US since the 1970s. The 1st President they voted for was Jimmy Carter and they're proud to support his charities, mainly Habitat For Humanity.

    They don't care for the direction things are going, and see it as an attack on America. Arjun suggests that the war on free speech stems from excess influence by the collapsed colonial empires i.e. UK and the rest of Europe, where people have no such right.

    I guess old folks have turned to YouTube and alternatives like Rumble lately, disgusted with the fare offered by the corporate media. They follow a lot of "cancelled" actors like this one:


  11. #1011
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Arjun suggests that the war on free speech stems from excess influence by the collapsed colonial empires i.e. UK and the rest of Europe, where people have no such right.
    This demonstrates pretty well how those who talk about free speech the most equivocate and basically just lie about it. The US right to free speech is very specific, relating pretty much only to the government. If you're talking about the US having a right to free speech and other countries not then that is what you're talking about. In that case, anything relating to Twitter and what it allows or doesn't allow has exactly zero to do with free speech. If you want to claim that Twitter banning people is an attack on free speech then you're talking about something else, so the US has no such right any more than any the country. I find it hard to believe that you don't know this so this equivocation is really just another dishonest tactic.

  12. #1012
    Superbly Moderated NeedSomeAnswers's Avatar
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    They don't care for the direction things are going, and see it as an attack on America. Arjun suggests that the war on free speech stems from excess influence by the collapsed colonial empires i.e. UK and the rest of Europe, where people have no such right.
    They have no idea what they are talking about, and in fact sound like the tired old people who always say "it was better in my day" when we all know it wasn't. I would love to know what Free Speech rights we dont have in the UK & Europe that you have in the US ?


    You have member of the republican party and the right in general in America trying to ban books in schools, how on earth does that marry up with the right to Free Speech ?
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  13. #1013
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    ...The US right to free speech is very specific, relating pretty much only to the government...
    This was a simple Google for "Free Speech US vs UK".

    The First Amendment expressly prohibits laws limiting free speech. Britain and France's laws essentially say that citizens have free speech unless the government legislates otherwise, leaving those countries more room to bar certain types of speech explicitly.
    #1A limits "laws" from being created - thus protecting people from Government rules against what we can say. That's freedom of speech in the US. That is not what you get in the UK, from my understanding of how you all write laws.

    Of course, all I just said, does not stop a State in the US from making a law against some form of speech. It just allows a challenge all the way to the Federal Supreme Court to say that State cannot do that.

    That is how our Federation of States behaves in this current Union.

    The "abortion distraction" is another great example of just that. Where in the Constitution do the people see a connection to "abortion"? Right to privacy? Interstate Commerce rules? #14A? Latest ruling simply said it's not found in the document.

    If it's not in the Constitution, that just means the States have to deal with it - and they are free to make laws that make happy the populations of those States. Nice how that works.

    At least to one who adheres to a strict form of Constitutionalism.

    I actively use Twitter. I appreciate the changes made by Musk - and they are tangible and noticeable. I also followed each step he made from day 1, interacting with coders, firing those who were doing things that Twitter ought not do (the list was huge). Love these pics from a meeting Musk had with coders (after he fired all the non-coding coders, that purge was beautifully done). I studied the details of that white board - very cool stuff.
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  14. #1014
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    It's not that we don't have free speech it's what get's to the instrument (aka media and tweet like mediums ) that control free speech.
    I can go the the main square and bush the PM for how treacherous he is for hours and nobody will bother me but also no media reporter will come to ask me something.
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by szlamany View Post
    This was a simple Google for "Free Speech US vs UK".
    I'm not sure whether you're trying to correct me or not, but let me clarify what I meant, just in case. I realise that the US has constitutionally-guaranteed free speech and other countries don't, but the freedom that refers to is freedom from the government limiting your speech. The supposed "war on free speech" that so many are complaining about right now doesn't relate to that at all. There is nothing in the US constitution that guarantees anyone the right to access Twitter. The free speech referred to in the US constitution and the free speech that Elon Musk claims to be promoting on Twitter are not the same thing at all, so this:
    Arjun suggests that the war on free speech stems from excess influence by the collapsed colonial empires i.e. UK and the rest of Europe, where people have no such right.
    is equivocation. That said, upon second reading of that, I realise that I am inferring from the statement that the UK and the rest of Europe have no right to free speech is implying that the US does. That certainly seems to be the implication, but maybe I'm wrong about that.

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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    I'm not sure whether you're trying to correct me or not, but let me clarify what I meant, just in case. I realise that the US has constitutionally-guaranteed free speech and other countries don't, but the freedom that refers to is freedom from the government limiting your speech. The supposed "war on free speech" that so many are complaining about right now doesn't relate to that at all. There is nothing in the US constitution that guarantees anyone the right to access Twitter. The free speech referred to in the US constitution and the free speech that Elon Musk claims to be promoting on Twitter are not the same thing at all, so this:

    is equivocation. That said, upon second reading of that, I realise that I am inferring from the statement that the UK and the rest of Europe have no right to free speech is implying that the US does. That certainly seems to be the implication, but maybe I'm wrong about that.
    I just thought I saw some confusion about how our laws work here, compared to UK and Europe.

    When it comes to that finer point about companies such as Twitter, all I can say from a point of law is that a "carrier" is held harmless to what is "carried" on their medium. For example, you cannot sue the phone company that gives you "copper" for the prank phones calls that you get. Once you go from "carrier" to "publisher" those hold harmless law do not apply. I've seen debates about how these public-software communication platforms might be "controlled", so to speak, through flexing of those laws.

    The fact that "old twitter" had tons of so-called coders in charge of suppressing information in various countries, I find that interesting. You might have to know what #TwitterJP means. Can anyone say Shinzo Abe?

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  17. #1017
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Corporate rights don't trump individual rights in a free society either. Chicken-flapping "Private company, private company, ba-bawk!" changes nothing. You need a new script to parrot from.

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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by szlamany View Post
    When it comes to that finer point about companies such as Twitter, all I can say from a point of law is that a "carrier" is held harmless to what is "carried" on their medium. For example, you cannot sue the phone company that gives you "copper" for the prank phones calls that you get. Once you go from "carrier" to "publisher" those hold harmless law do not apply. I've seen debates about how these public-software communication platforms might be "controlled", so to speak, through flexing of those laws.
    That's relevant elsewhere too. Here in Australia, the government tried to prevent Facebook profiting by reposting news from commercial sources without compensation and Facebook just banned all Australian news because we're too small to care about and they don't want to have to pay people for their work. Some agreement was reached but I never heard the terms. There has also been talk about holding social network sites liable for content they host. While I don't have all that much sympathy for rich individuals and companies that own these platforms, I understand that it might be difficult when you have people saying that anything should be allowed but then you also have governments trying to hold you liable for what other people put on your platform. Also, the motivation for that here was the right - particularly the Christain right - wanting to protect children. The Christain right are big on protecting children in the US too, but they're also big on free speech.

  19. #1019
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Kanye West crossed a line today. Musk suspended Kanye from Twitter after he posted his 2024 campaign logo, a swastika inside the Star of David. He did this around the same time he went on Info Wars praising Hitler.

    Before Kanye's account got suspended, he deleted his logo to try to hide the fact that he posted it, but several people screen captured it, as well as the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/02/b...uspension.html
    Last edited by Peter Porter; Dec 2nd, 2022 at 10:29 AM.

  20. #1020
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Kanye West should buy his own social media platform. I wonder whether anyone has one they want to sell him. I think that deal's already fallen through since he lost his deal with Adidas.

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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Talk about free speech in the US is always an interesting and fluid discussion. We certainly ban some types of free speech, and always have. The courts have even upheld a certain amount of that, though it's a subject of active and constantly evolving debate.

    However, Twitter was involved in a lawsuit in India that is much more complicated. If the government is seeking to suppress certain voices, what should Twitter do? More generally, if the state is approaching Twitter to assist in suppression of dissent, what is the appropriate response? Musk said that Twitter would conform to local rules, which suggests that he will allow suppression of speech and persecution of speakers, if that's what the government asks of it. Seems like he wouldn't do that, but if you fire everybody with a local understanding of what is behind a request, it seems likely that for a while, at least, Twitter == Sucker.
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Corporate rights don't trump individual rights
    This would be relevant if it weren't for the fact that you're arguing for an individual right you do not have. The right to a platform.
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    When it comes to that finer point about companies such as Twitter, all I can say from a point of law is that a "carrier" is held harmless to what is "carried" on their medium. For example, you cannot sue the phone company that gives you "copper" for the prank phones calls that you get. Once you go from "carrier" to "publisher" those hold harmless law do not apply. I've seen debates about how these public-software communication platforms might be "controlled", so to speak, through flexing of those laws.
    One of the problems facing Musk, though, is that Twitter is international other countries laws do not necessarily work on the same distinctions as those of the US. At present the EU does seem to view social media as a carrier but it's hotly debated and, if people start posting e.g. Swastikas which 1. is increasingly likely (whether it's left wing trolls or re-enabled far right posters) and 2. is expressly illegal under German law, I could see that ground shifting pretty quickly. There have been several debates on this already and it's by no means a clear-cut situation. There's also the issue of whether enabling that sort of post without moderation can be construed as a failure to act or even conspiracy which can make a party civilly liable in most countries and criminally liable in a few.

    Then you consider countries which don't even pay lip service to free speech and you've got some real danger zones.

    I think Musk is on a tightrope and it's not clear yet exactly where the tipping points are.
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    On Kanye West, after seeing the InfoWars interview, I honestly think the guy is seriously mentally ill. Some bad actors, mainly on the right, have been taking advantage of that. They thought they were getting a convenient star to champion their dog whistles and what they got was someone who was going to say the quiet part out loud and declare that he really likes Hitler and Nazis. It's going to be interesting to see what those actors do now. Will they simply continue to claim ignorance or will they actually condemn his statements. They sure weren't able to condemn Fuentes who has said the same things but didn't have the same profile.
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    This would be relevant if it weren't for the fact that you're arguing for an individual right you do not have. The right to a platform.
    True enough, but that isn't a good thing. It is even recognized as such based on several bills introduced over the last decade, though Dems have repeatedly voted them down or stalled them into failure. It's just a matter of time.

    This isn't North Korea or the UK.

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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    True enough, but that isn't a good thing
    I'm not so sure. The unfettered right to a platform conflicts with the right to refuse to offer service. With businesses this means you do not have the right to refuse to bake a cake with a rainbow flag on... or a swastika. Total straw man but, taken to an extreme: this means, if I have friends over for a bbq, I am required to allow entry to Neo-Nazis and anarchists lest I supress their voices. It's in built to our legal systems that we do not require this of businesses or individuals for a reason. It's a fundamentally intrusive requirement. The only restriction in the US system is that we require this of the government and even that does not apply elsewhere.

    This isn't North Korea or the UK
    Cute, but you overlook the fact that it operates in both. So yes it is.
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Well, if as you say the company's whim is ascendant... then there isn't much to whinge about no matter what direction Musk takes Twitter. This entire thread evaporates as irrelevant.

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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Well, if as you say the company's whim is ascendant... then there isn't much to whinge about no matter what direction Musk takes Twitter. This entire thread evaporates as irrelevant.
    Not sure there's been much debate about whether Musk has the right to take Twitter in any direction he wants. Mostly about what he would do, what he is doing and whether he will be successful. Lots of talk on free speech.

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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Well, if as you say the company's whim is ascendant... then there isn't much to whinge about no matter what direction Musk takes Twitter. This entire thread evaporates as irrelevant.
    The entire thread was built on irrelevant. Speculating about what will become of Twitter is a fun pastime for most everybody, and totally a chit-chat topic.

    The reasonable position is: We don't really know what will lead to profitability, but if Musk goes there, then Twitter will be profitable. If Musk doesn't go there, then it won't.

    After that, it's all just bloviating. That's something we're all good at.
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    There has always been a tension between laws that are on the books and laws that are enforced. Idaho has, or until recently had (I don't know if they were ever repealed, though I think possibly not), laws on sexuality that haven't been enforced for a very long time. It basically proscribed what acts were allowed between any couple, married or not, regardless of gender. They might also have outlawed sex outside of marriage, though that one came down to the changing interpretation of words.
    Under our legal system that's an example of a law that's legally null and void, just never removed from the books. If you were actually arrested under those charges, you'd have a slam dunk lawsuit for false arrest.

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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Corporate rights don't trump individual rights in a free society either. Chicken-flapping "Private company, private company, ba-bawk!" changes nothing. You need a new script to parrot from.
    Sure but there's no individual right to force a company to do business with you or allow you on their property, with narrow exceptions for if they're excluding you based only on your membership in a protected class (e.g. race).

    I don't even understand why people think the big "free speech" issue of our day is voluntary actions by private companies to decide what speech they do or do not want to carry when you have conservatives out there passing anti-speech laws using the full force of the government to suppress unfavored views. It's really a victimhood complex from people whose only actual objection, in most cases, is that they're not the ones getting to control the message; claims of censorship when they were already getting special treatment... Twitter, Facebook... they've been caught being biased *in favor* of conservative speech, yet right wingers still thought they were being silenced for mere opinion. Just look at what Musk is doing with Twitter... banning people for criticizing him, banning various left wing accounts simply because his fanboys ask... this is what "free speech" means to people like Musk... their "freedom" to ensure all speech conforms to their beliefs.

  32. #1032
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Well, if as you say the company's whim is ascendant... then there isn't much to whinge about no matter what direction Musk takes Twitter. This entire thread evaporates as irrelevant.
    No one here is claiming that we have the right to force Elon Musk to provide access to Twitter for anyone. Some have even expressly stated that we don't - I know I have. There are others here who do claim that certain people's right to access Twitter was being violated before he took over and Musk himself is basically saying so. The fact that we want to speculate about what will or should happen and express our opinion about what is happening in a forum that is pretty much intended to be irrelevant is completely in line with what you should expect.

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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by fafalone View Post
    It's really a victimhood complex from people whose only actual objection, in most cases, is that they're not the ones getting to control the message
    I concur. I post comments on news stories in my Microsoft news feed at times and they have a pretty aggressive automated system for filtering such comments. I obviously don't see every comment but I have seen many, many comments from people complaining that they were being censored for their right-wing views. I've had many comments rejected myself and many of those have been extremely tame. Knowing they won't get through the filter, I tend to keep the insults to a minimum and there have been several where I'm not even disagreeing with anyone and some are on sport rather than politics. That it's happened to me so often means that it has almost certainly happened to many others with left-wing views as well, but I haven't expressly complained about it and I've never seen anyone else without right-wing views complain that they're being censored for their political views.

    I think a big reason for this is that, for the Christian right, being persecuted is actually one their main goals in life. Their holy book tells them that they will be persecuted so, if they can view themselves as being persecuted, they feel like they're doing Christianity right. This persecution complex has become so prevalent with the Christain right that it has now spilled out into the right in general and also those who don't consider themselves right-wing but constantly repeat right-wing talking points.

  34. #1034

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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    I concur. I post comments on news stories in my Microsoft news feed at times and they have a pretty aggressive automated system for filtering such comments. I obviously don't see every comment but I have seen many, many comments from people complaining that they were being censored for their right-wing views. I've had many comments rejected myself and many of those have been extremely tame. Knowing they won't get through the filter, I tend to keep the insults to a minimum and there have been several where I'm not even disagreeing with anyone and some are on sport rather than politics. That it's happened to me so often means that it has almost certainly happened to many others with left-wing views as well, but I haven't expressly complained about it and I've never seen anyone else without right-wing views complain that they're being censored for their political views.

    I think a big reason for this is that, for the Christian right, being persecuted is actually one their main goals in life. Their holy book tells them that they will be persecuted so, if they can view themselves as being persecuted, they feel like they're doing Christianity right. This persecution complex has become so prevalent with the Christain right that it has now spilled out into the right in general and also those who don't consider themselves right-wing but constantly repeat right-wing talking points.
    I went to check out Microsoft news feed...it is called Microsoft Start now.
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  35. #1035
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    there isn't much to whinge about no matter what direction Musk takes Twitter. This entire thread evaporates as irrelevant.
    As others have said, I don't think anyone's saying Musk doesn't have the right to do what he wants with Twitter. The point is the potential schadenfreude. Don't pretend you're immune to that... we ALL love to see pomposity *****ed. The only difference is what we regard as pomposity.

    conservatives out there passing anti-speech laws using the full force of the government to suppress unfavored views.
    I agree.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill

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  36. #1036
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    OK, that got censored and I guess I can see way. Let's just say we all like to see pomposity get jabbed with a needle.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill

    Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd

  37. #1037
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    As I pointed out earlier medical professionals are joining truckers, farmers, manufacturing workers, public safety workers, and a growing list of others in pushing back against the wokism religion.

    Here's another doctor fed up with the decadence, overreach, bad science, and non-science that has taken hold in once-respected institutions like medical journals in the more screwed up parts of the world. The only shocking thing here is the bold step of plain speaking, unlike fully-cowed UK counterparts who make do with sarcasm and other indirect ways of expressing their disgust.


  38. #1038

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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    OK, that got censored and I guess I can see way. Let's just say we all like to see pomposity get jabbed with a needle.
    I don't know what was said but I'd like inject we all just try and agree. Let's not try and be too syringe our thoughts. Not to poke fun and any one...or take any cheap jabs.
    Last edited by TysonLPrice; Dec 3rd, 2022 at 06:49 PM.
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  39. #1039
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Well, Musk certainly is doing everything possible to kept Twitter in the news. My guess is Twitter usage is up. It will be interesting to see if that actually makes Twitter profitable.

  40. #1040
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    Re: Musk buys Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    Well, Musk certainly is doing everything possible to kept Twitter in the news. My guess is Twitter usage is up. It will be interesting to see if that actually makes Twitter profitable.
    Regardless of whether it's true or not, it seems to me that he might have waited until he had a clearer idea of what actually happened before suggesting that Twitter interfered in the Brazilian election. There's no small chance that that could lead to violence in Brazil so speculation is probably not ideal. As suggested though, he's probably just trying to generate traffic. A few Brazilians arrested, hurt or dead won't affect him though, so why not?

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