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Thread: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

  1. #81
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Yeah, that's certainly true, but if history tells us anything it tells us that we sure aren't good at solving our issues peacefully.

    Also, it tells us that markets really HATE turmoil.
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  2. #82
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Seems a bit farfetched to blame supply chain disruptions, scarcity of reliable labor, etc. on the Russia vs. Ukraine situation. I suppose if you are trading with either country you would probably see that disrupted though.

  3. #83
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    True, but you've doubtless noted that the first response of the market to ANYTHING is to freak out.
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  4. #84
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Cute rabbits in Arkansas! SELL ALL YOUR STOCK IN AIRLINE! SELL! SELL!! SELL!!!
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  5. #85
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Well, of course.

    What you don't see is them freaking out in a positive way. There's never a "Cute rabbits in Arkansas! BUY ALL THE AIRLINE STOCK YOU CAN FIND! BUY! BUY!! BUY!!!"
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  6. #86
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Now if it were cute sheep....
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  7. #87
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Is NATO cute rabbits and cute sheeps?
    Ain't it going to bomb Russia now as usual?
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    πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν·

  8. #88
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Bomb Russia? As usual? I'd say it hasn't happened since NATO has been a thing, and isn't going to start now. What are you talking about?
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  9. #89
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    In Soviet Russia, rabbits bomb you.
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  10. #90
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    I was been ironic.
    NATO kinda bomb whoever it does not "like" but if the opponent is at it's measures. Doing that now would be suicide.
    On that knowing, Putin, being whatever you want to call him an with good reason at some point got the opportunity to acknowledge the Russian minorities looking like he was "pushed" to do so. It would be a lot harder to do that without a NATO "up to his neck". It's not so often that you see such a diplomatic move. It was near perfect.
    So it looks like the puppeteers got puppeteered.
    At least that is my point of view. Might be wrong but, Russia got the minorities with a few guns firing and left everyone else in surprise.Also the French prime...Lol he got sucked to the plot without knowing what the heck happened!
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  11. #91
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    In Soviet Russia, rabbits bomb you.
    LOL
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  12. #92
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    I have to admit I haven't followed or researched this subject very much. Just seemed like the usual saber rattling. But now there seems to be a real likelihood of armed conflict. I don't understand what's motivating Putin. Is this a push back at NATO or does the Ukraine have some resources that Russia wants?

  13. #93

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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    I have to admit I haven't followed or researched this subject very much. Just seemed like the usual saber rattling. But now there seems to be a real likelihood of armed conflict. I don't understand what's motivating Putin. Is this a push back at NATO or does the Ukraine have some resources that Russia wants?
    Part of it is Putin believes the Ukraine should never have been carved away from Russia. He was just televised saying that.
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  14. #94
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    In 2014 Crimea voted to succeed from the Ukraine and join Russia, but Vladimir Putin declines to recognize the separatist movement.

    There have been a handful of things that have changed since now and then, but most notably has been the increased rhetoric to welcome Ukraine into NATO.
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    Part of it is Putin believes the Ukraine should never have been carved away from Russia. He was just televised saying that.
    Seems strange that after 10yrs in office(not counting his 1st/2nd term), now Ukraine has such importance.

  16. #96
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Why? It's related to the demographic collapse underway, similar to the pressures of other colapsing demographies:


  17. #97
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Pipelines from the sea, navy crossing and strategic geographical importance.
    Also, if you believe in such a thing, there were supposedly some Russian speaking minorities that where oppressed by Ukrainians, so he supposedly cared about..
    Oh snap! There is a Greek minority that the previous day had 2 dead and 5 wounded by Ukraine fanatics and where oppressed....
    In any way, I did not know what NATO wanted to do over there. You really don't mess so openly with some countries. Clearly they have some idiots on the higher ranks or some idiot puppeteers, puppeting the puppets or, poopets if you like. Anyhow, thanks for that, Greek people got liberated due to NATO stupidity.
    Or sold out government said that they will impose measures, embargo and such against Russia. The traitor government is falling in a few months so we need to carefully vote for anything other than the 3 know traitor US,German driven parties. If we do, we are saved, if we don't we are fraked.
    ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ
    πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν·

  18. #98
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Lots of reasons.

    1. Ukraine was historically part of the USSR. If you go far enough back in history Russia was, arguably, part of the Ukraine; it grew out of the Russ who's capital was Kiev. The two are very tightly bound by history and culture and many Russians view Ukraine as a natural part of Russia.
    2. Ukraine wants to join NATO. This would give NATO a direct land border with Russia which Putin fears. This is the same reason that the Warsaw pact was formed historically.
    3. Parts of Eastern Ukraine are ethnically Russian and Putin would like those parts to be ceded to Russia. These are the bit that Putin formally recognised as sovereign states today.
    4. A good war always gets the public onside.
    5. (I suspect this is the real reason) Following the collapse of the USSR, Ukraine was a nominally democratic but actually autocratic state much like Russia is today. It had been drifting toward the West ever since but in 2014 the then President Yunakovich refused to sign a free trade agreement with the West and, instead, pivoted back toward Russia. The people revolted and installed a new democratic government which pivoted back toward the West. Since then Ukraine has fared much better than Russia financially and this holds out a lesson to the Russian people: If you overthrow your autocratic regime and embrace Western Democracy your life will get better. Essentially it's exactly the same lesson that led to the collapse of the USSR in the 90s and it's not one Putin can afford to have taught on his doorstep. Putin needs Ukraine to fail, and it isn't obliging.

    Seems strange that after 10yrs in office(not counting his 1st/2nd term), now Ukraine has such importance.
    He's been nibbling away at the old soviet satellites for his entire tenure including previous annexations of South Ossetia and Abkhazia from Georgia and the Crimea from Ukraine. This isn't a new situation, he just turned the volume up to 10.
    Last edited by FunkyDexter; Feb 22nd, 2022 at 01:58 PM.
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  19. #99
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    E' Sleepo just announced sanctions against Russian. Oooooo scrappy.
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  20. #100
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    2. Ukraine wants to join NATO. This would give NATO a direct land border with Russia which Putin fears.
    Russia already has land border with NATO on Estonia and Latvia's borders. USSR had always had land border with NATO on Turkey's border.

    cheers,
    </wqw>

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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Ukraine: The War After the War

    About the only would-be sanction which might Ė might Ė earn a blink from the Kremlin would be if the Europeans all swore off Russian oil and natural gas. That export line-item is far and away the Russian governmentís largest money-maker, accounting for a hefty majority of income. But in doing so the Europeans would be cutting off their primary energy provider, condemning themselves to the dark and cold. And so that specific threat hasnít happened. Iíd be impressed Ė and shocked Ė if it did.
    The EU should prepare for a future of cooking and heating over peat and dung fires again.

  22. #102
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    I've said it before. We have close to a trillion worth of Gas in our sea.
    Our sold our, born of a dud Russian rabbit bomb politicians will not drill. Orders from Germany and US. So now starve Europe. We are used to it for years now. Also if the sold outs leave we will get out of NATO and relate with Russia and if we finally drill then every country in Europe will give us brow jiombs to get gas . Except Serbia, they can have it for Free.
    That's the optimistic scenario. The pessimistic is both 3 traitor parties will collaborate after the elections to get to 50% and we will continue give brow jiombs to US and Germany. These elections are the most circuital we ever had. Let's hope for the best...

    P.S. Also it's not in the very interest for Germany not to have power from Russia, so I don't think they will relate to US sanctions at least not "openly" . Germany is the boss of Europe so what they will say we will do...That is, from our current sold out politicians, at least for Greece.
    Last edited by sapator; Feb 22nd, 2022 at 04:49 PM. Reason: an admin told me "brow jiombs" is not proper, so I will use "braw" jiombs"
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  23. #103
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    I was been ironic.
    NATO kinda bomb whoever it does not "like" but if the opponent is at it's measures. Doing that now would be suicide.
    Yeah, and what's the lesson that people will learn here? Ukraine had a large number of Soviet nukes, but gave them up in exchange for some guarantees from others, including Russia. Everybody kind of knows that treaties only mean something if both sides believe they do. There's no higher power enforcing them, so if one side decides to change their minds, they do. The US has plenty of experience with ignoring treaties, so we're certainly no angels, but don't you wonder whether Ukraine kind of regrets giving up all the nukes, these days?
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  24. #104
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    . The traitor government is falling in a few months so we need to carefully vote for anything other than the 3 know traitor US,German driven parties. If we do, we are saved, if we don't we are fraked.
    One thing that has come of this is that you have made me eagerly interested in the next Greek election. I'm not going to guess how it will turn out, and am not interested in any polling on the topic, but I do look forward to your opinion on the outcome. I expect it to be over the top entertaining, win or lose.
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  25. #105
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    . Germany is the boss of Europe so what they will say we will do...
    I'm not yet convinced that the post-Merkel Germany is the boss of Germany, let alone Europe.
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  26. #106
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Yeah, elections would be a blast either way.
    I'm saving my best lines for that time.

    I don't get, post-Merkel Germany is the boss of Germany??
    Germany is the economic boss of Europe due to the EU fluke. It may not be convincing to you but we feel it in our skin as we are part of this.
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  27. #107
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Well, I would agree with you for the last several years, and Germany is still a large economic force in the EU, I'm just not convinced that they have the same focus anymore. A triparty coalition can make it difficult to move in any direction, let alone lead in any direction. We'll see.
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  28. #108

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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    E' Sleepo just announced sanctions against Russian. Oooooo scrappy.
    His predecessor tried to extort Ukraine by holding back aid to get political dirt on Biden.
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  29. #109
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    I'm not comparing here.
    Well at the very least he was funnier.

    Also I don't get how he got dirt on Biden by holding aid but since you are there you should know better I guess.
    From an outside observer is different. From where we stand you noted a corpse puppet that got the inflation up eons, but again, you live there you should know better.
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  30. #110

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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    I'm not comparing here.
    Well at the very least he was funnier.

    Also I don't get how he got dirt on Biden by holding aid but since you are there you should know better I guess.
    From an outside observer is different. From where we stand you noted a corpse puppet that got the inflation up eons, but again, you live there you should know better.
    Yeah...it was that whole "first" impeachment thing

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49800181
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  31. #111
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Well dirt come in both sides.
    How about that Hillary involving Trump with Russia?
    Of course your dirt cannot be compared to Greek political dirty but it's a start.

    But I guess it will be like the article says about Trump, only the name will change:

    "After Mr Trump was impeached in December, a trial took place that could have led to the president being removed. In the end, he was cleared."
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  32. #112

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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    How about that Hillary involving Trump with Russia?
    I suppose you are referring to right wing conservative reporting. She was never charged with anything.

    "After Mr Trump was impeached in December, a trial took place that could have led to the president being removed. In the end, he was cleared."
    He was not cleared, he was not removed from office. He was still impeached for it.

    It is obvious you know about as much about US politics as I know about Greek. You really show you don't understand the nuances. No offence meant.
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  33. #113

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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Fox news had Trump on saying what a genius" Putin is. Pompeo really trashing Biden. Other networks are reporting it is being repeated over and over again on Russian television.

    What a network...
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  34. #114
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    No offense taken. I'm not into US politics.

    Here is what I refer about Hillary:
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58591969
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  35. #115

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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    No offense taken. I'm not into US politics.

    Here is what I refer about Hillary:
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58591969
    You may have not noticed when you read that...Hillary is not charged with a single thing.
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  36. #116
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    We just see the implications on Greece coming from the foreign politics.
    So the 2 major negative impacts to our economy is US and Germany and of course Turkey but not for economical reasons.
    Again let me clear than when I say US or Germany I don't mean the people but the administration.
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  37. #117
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    You may have not noticed when you read that...Hillary is not charged with a single thing.
    Of course. Nor will she, as I said before.
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  38. #118

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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    Of course. Nor will she, as I said before.
    They aren't charging me or you either...what is your point?
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  39. #119
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Russia already has land border with NATO on Estonia and Latvia's borders.
    True but the Ukranian border is much longer. I'm pretty sure Putin wouldn't want any of those borders to exist if he had the choice and he certainly doesn't want Ukraine added to the mix.

    As for the Trump vs Biden debate, I suspect Trump's handling would have been worse (he'd have gift wrapped Ukraine and just handed it over) but I do think Biden should have been stronger from the start. He prevaricated which is not something you want to do in the face of an autocratic aggressor - they see it as weakness.

    Fox news had Trump on saying what a genius" Putin is.
    I do think this is being slightly miss-represented though. If you listen to what Trump was saying he wasn't gushing about Putin, he was criticising Biden. It wasn't so much "Woot! Go Vlad, go!" as "That was a smart move, I'd have had a counter ready (cause I'm the smartiest) and Biden didn't... the fool". I don't think Trump would have had a counter ready and hindsight is 20/20 but I don't think his intention was to praise Putin either, that was a side effect to his criticism of Biden.



    Personally, I think the only thing that would have prevented this was Western boots on the ground, not to present a realistic defensive capability but rather to make moving against Ukraine diplomatically untenable for Putin. He's comfortable shooting at Ukrainians but shooting at NATO troops would have been a whole different ball game. That said, if he'd decided screw it and gone in anyway we'd be at war right now so it would have been a very high risk strategy.

    As for economic sanctions, I can't see them working. Putin has been preparing for this moment. He has an extremely low national debt and has opened up China as a trading partner. We'll all suffer financially as a result of this but I suspect Russia will be able to weather any sanctions just as well as the West will.
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  40. #120
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    There is an issue here.
    Talking about EU, the biggest army if I'm not wrong is Turkey that for the sake of conversation I put it in EU and we also play a significant part (having the best aviation pilots) .
    Turkey will not compromise today's relations with Russia. We are Russian friendly and our politics won't do that mistake as they will plummet on election or even fall the same instance.
    Germany has no army, Italy and Spain are neutral, France went there to negotiate anyway so what you suggest is USA and UK go over there? Nah, that is not realistic.
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