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Thread: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

  1. #961
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    OK, so why quote me and "defending" Shaggy"?
    I wasn't defending anyone. Nor did I did I say you insulted anyone.

    I'm pretty sure we all know he meant "You will own nothing, shut up, serve me, and be happy" Klaus Schwab the global feudalism champion and self-styled ‹bermensch.
    Actually I've never heard of him. Sounds like a lovely man.

  2. #962
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    OK then I misunderstood, I apologize.
    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    Actually I've never heard of him. Sounds like a lovely man.
    LOL!! Well you can search for "The great reset" if you have some time to spare.
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  3. #963
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    I'll have to, as well. I've never heard of him, either.
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  4. #964
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    What does that mean? Care to explain?
    It's an over simplification but: if your policies include small government, opposition to immigration, social conservatism and an emphasis on self reliance, you can be described as "right". If your party is literally an off shoot of Mussolini's Fascists - well then you probably qualify as "Far Right".

    Well you can search for "The great reset" if you have some time to spare.
    ... but if you do you're likely to find a gross misrepresentation of what it actually was.

    "The Great Reset" was the name of a conference run primarily the World Economic Forum in 2020. It's purpose was to examine ways the world could progress in a sustainable way. So it was concerned with e.g. the impacts of artificial intelligence, climate change, international cooperation on research (particularly with regard to pandemic responses, given the context of the time), promoting international wealth equality etc.

    In a monumental bit of marketing dumbassery they chose "In the future you will own nothing and be happy" as one of their main slogans - which has a distinctly Orwellian ring to it. The intention of this slogan was to portray that advances in technology would mean that we wouldn't need to own anything because our needs would be taken care of by technology. E.g. once self driving cars are a thing you really won't need to own a car because you can simply order one to your door any time you need one - this would be better for the environment and your wallet. Two thumbs up.

    It was not meant to mean that you will not be allowed to own things. It is not some Communist manifesto or anything to do with coercive control. However, given the Orwellian tone of that slogan and the general state of paranoia that was pervading as we were deep in the throes of Covid lockdowns, it's not surprising that a bunch of conspiracy theories sprung up about it being a plan to control us.

    I think it's certainly fair to say that the politics behind it lean both to the Left and to Globalisation so I think there are valid criticisms to made of it's proposals, particularly if your politics lean Right and Isolationist. But if you take your info from social media you're likely to find conspiracy theories that extend all the way to global elites trying to turn everyone into human drones. But they ARE conspiracy theories. If the global elite are hatching such a plan you can be pretty sure they won't holding a public conference, advertise it online and post all the talks to You Tube.
    Last edited by FunkyDexter; Sep 27th, 2022 at 05:58 AM.
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  5. #965
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    I'm happy to see that you are "defending" NWO without even someone said anything about conspiracies and such.

    So by your saying. 25% of Italians vote a party that are fascists?Is that what you are saying?
    So far right are fascists and far left are?Communists?
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  6. #966
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Technically, Communist is considered far left, but in practice, communism is an unstable philosophy that rapidly falls into autocracy kind of like radioactive decay.

    As for fascism...yeah, maybe. We'll just have to see. Italy has some staggering debt, at the moment. It could go in a couple different directions at this point.
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  7. #967
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    So the only "correct" side is far right that they are fascists but far left can be left for interpretation.
    If you are worrying about Italy dept then better worry for US dept or Japan depth...What I'm saying is that the dept is fugazi, there are other factors taking place.
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  8. #968
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    So far right are fascists and far left are?Communists
    Fascism would be considered a subset of the Far Right, certainly. And Communist would be considered a subset of the Far Left. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.

    Is that what you are saying?
    I'm saying that the Italian Brotherhood are descended from Mussolini's fascists. Mussolini's chief of staff, Almirante, formed the Italian Social Movement in 1946. in the early 90s the then leader, Fini, renamed it The National Alliance. Meloni headed up the youth wing of the National Alliance from the 90s and then, following Berlusconi's resignation in 2011, morphed it into the Italian Brotherhood. If you look at the membership of those organisations you'll find a bunch of Mussolini's family members and Meloni has repeatedly praised Mussolini. All this is documented and quite easy to research.

    Given that, it's hard to deny that the Italian Brotherhood has Fascist roots and continues to be on not just the Right but rather the Far Right. This should answer your original point: "Also I don't get why people imply that right is "bad"". Nobody is making that argument. The argument being made is that the Far Right is bad.

    You can also make the argument that the Far Left is bad but it doesn't really have relevance because a Far Left party didn't just get elected to government in a country that was instrumental in the worst human disaster of the 20th century the last time they had that type of government. For historical reasons, Italy electing a Far Right government is giving people the jitters.
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  9. #969
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    What I'm implying is that you are a bit late.
    Everyone in the EU is now "lowered" the origin of the party. They are now right, dissented from far right.My point is that nobody cares in EU about the origin AFTER the elections...Except our lovable rodent here (oh, wait, you are not in EU you where exiled, booo, out I say, OUT!)
    Also a sub set of far right and sub set of far left does not mean anything to me. Are all far right parties fascists and all far left parties communists? Are Italians became fascists by voting a far right party that are...Fascists? If not then posting that origin of the party is irrelevant as nobody cares (meaning EU former accusers), thus making this a pointless argument.
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  10. #970
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    If not then posting that origin of the party is irrelevant as nobody cares (meaning EU former accusers), thus making this a pointless argument.
    I do care and I am in EU but didn't know anything about any Brotherhood in Italy so will you just shut up already.

    Nobody wants to listen to badly articulated arguments of the communist party of Greece about any European debate cause you are different.

    We already know you are with whatever Putin says and anti-US, all this being masked behind anti-"establishment".

    cheers,
    </wqw>

  11. #971
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Oh, if it isn't my personal hater!
    Hiya!

    P.S. I can't really understand why you can't get into your head that I'm not, nor I ever was, a communist, but, sure, whatever suits my no1 hater.
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  12. #972
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    So the only "correct" side is far right that they are fascists but far left can be left for interpretation.
    If you are worrying about Italy dept then better worry for US dept or Japan depth...What I'm saying is that the dept is fugazi, there are other factors taking place.
    Japan is certainly an interesting case. They are running somewhere around 200% of GDP, and it just hasn't mattered. Their population seems to relentlessly purchase any debt they put out. They've been trying for force inflation, and simply can't.

    The US debt is a different case. As the global reserve currency, it's the debt that people flock to when trying to avoid risk. Personally, I don't feel it's quite as safe as the global monetary pool seems to think, but only because we have a tendency to play a game of chicken with disaster on a regular basis. Still, as US interest rates rise to try to curb inflation, US debt becomes increasingly appealing, which will end up hurting other countries...like Italy.

    Italy has an even higher depth:GDP ratio than the US (though not as high as Japan), but they're also in a bit of an economic mess in other ways, as well. They need to fix some underlying issues, and might end up pushing the debt higher to do so.

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  13. #973
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    What I'm implying is that you are a bit late.
    Everyone in the EU is now "lowered" the origin of the party. They are now right, dissented from far right.My point is that nobody cares in EU about the origin AFTER the elections...Except our lovable rodent here (oh, wait, you are not in EU you where exiled, booo, out I say, OUT!)
    Also a sub set of far right and sub set of far left does not mean anything to me. Are all far right parties fascists and all far left parties communists? Are Italians became fascists by voting a far right party that are...Fascists? If not then posting that origin of the party is irrelevant as nobody cares (meaning EU former accusers), thus making this a pointless argument.
    Go far enough to the right, and far enough to the left, and the two ends meet.
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  14. #974
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    Oh, if it isn't my personal hater!
    Hiya!

    P.S. I can't really understand why you can't get into your head that I'm not, nor I ever was, a communist, but, sure, whatever suits my no1 hater.
    How many hats would I have to send you to be your #1 hatter? No hate, though. Not a bit.

    I don't think it's bad to be a communist. I'd say it is bad to think that communism can work in the real world, but as a utopian, unattainable, ideal...it has a fair amount of appeal. I suspect it would appeal even to chimpanzees, since they have a demonstrated understanding of fair play, and communism is mostly about fair play, if unrealistically so.
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  15. #975
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    For a country that build wars vs communism I would have to say that some got over it eventually.

    Ye hater ain't gonna cope it for you as I haven't seen a single sign of hate all those years so your are way outta luck pal!

    I would agree on the debt general idea but I still believe is fugazi eventually.
    We (Greece) where put to the jaws of the economic crisis with 120% and now the dept is at 189.3% but it's all good man! No sanctions or anything.
    Also if I'm not mistaken the global dept is at 225trillion $ and global gold reserve is at 10.6 trillion $. Do the math and see how much more the times of gold we need. It's a mean for oppression if you ask me.

    And I hate you all btw.
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  16. #976
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Are all far right parties fascists
    No

    Are Italians became fascists by voting a far right party that are...Fascists?
    No, I explicitly said not in post 947.

    If not then posting that origin of the party is irrelevant as nobody cares
    People evidently do care. That's why there are a bunch of news articles about Italy electing a far right party. Are you saying that a party directly descended from one of the instigators of World War 2 regaining power is not cause for concern?

    Honestly, though, this entire discussion hasn't been an argument on my part (that's been entirely you). On my part it has been a correction of this statement: "Also I don't get why people imply that right is "bad"". That statement is incorrect because people aren't saying the Right is bad. They're saying the Far Right is bad. Are you saying the Far Right isn't bad?
    Last edited by FunkyDexter; Sep 27th, 2022 at 11:03 AM.
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  17. #977
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    We can go on for hours but I have some chores so I'll write this and I will be off.
    Sweden,Hungary,Poland,Italy and France on the, I don't recall the name but it's the body that cut Macron mandatory vaccination legislation, are far right governments.
    I honestly believe and I do think that you also believe (but the habit of calling me off is, a habit ) that there is no concern whatsoever for those governments. Don't expect to see fascists of Nazis or whatever storming Europe.
    So ye I stand by my argument that the conversation is irrelevant.
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  18. #978
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Sweden,Hungary,Poland,Italy and France
    Oh I think I see where you're going but I disagree.

    The only one of those with a definitively far right government is Hungary (and now Italy of course) and there has definitely been concern about it. In fact, the EU sanctioned them just last week.

    Poland is a more grey area. The Law and Justice party certainly borrows from the Far Right but it also borrows from the Far Left. Mostly it's populist, which isn't really the same. None the less, whether we categorise it as Far Left or Far Right I would agree that it appeases the extremes to unhealthy levels which I, for one, find troubling. But again, this gets commented on and condemned. You can read up on the backlash they received when they dismantled the government bodies meant to tackle Islamophobia and racial intolerance back in 2016.

    France and Sweden do not have Far Right governments. I think you've got confused that they do have troublingly powerful Far Right parties, but those haven't actually been elected to government. Again, though, this has been widely commented on. Le Penn's performance in the last French election was all over the media. I think the Swedish Far Right has been commented on less but it certainly makes the news.

    So the implication that we're somehow making a special case for Italy just doesn't ring true I'm afraid.
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  19. #979
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    You know what, I will agree with you, most of the aforementioned Europe countries have mild far right governments.
    The only real far right danger that is actually visible and impose results for Europe, Nazi gathering and have not been elected to govern but highly appraised and helped by the government is, Ukraine Azov Regiment.
    Wooooohh that was uncalled for!! "Drops mic"...(actually since I don't have a mic available, drops chuchu toy..Squiiick! )
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  20. #980
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    What's the deal with Nord Stream right now?

    Last I heard somebody seems to have intentionally damaged it, spewing leaked gas (mostly methane) and probably preventing it from being turned back on. Sounds like somewhere in the pipeline "network" and impacting both I and II.

    Lots of wild theories, from EU radical environmentalists to the governments of various Nordic and Baltic states.

  21. #981
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    5 points damage.
    What is rumored is the hits where made by high precision US weaponry (not US, weaponry given), or a submarine.
    Anyhow they will probably blame Russia, or , not to be the bad guy again, watch mainstream media and whatever they say, it's the opposite.
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  22. #982
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Wait for the other shoe to drop....whatever it might be. Speculation is just guessing.
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  23. #983
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Ye I was teasing a little. What I've said on the 5 point hit seems to be the case and also that the weaponry was US made. Caution, again, it's not US that hit but the weaponry was US made. But true, it's very early.
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  24. #984
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    watch mainstream media and whatever they say, it's the opposite.
    That just wont work in the US, unless your goal is to ignore reality. I can't speak for other countries. I image the people in countries with government controlled media have a much bigger problem with sorting out what's true.

    There is just to much competition in the media industry in the US. They all have their own bias in how they frame the news but they can't just report outright lies. Their rivals would beat them over the head with it.

  25. #985
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    They all have their own bias in how they frame the news but they can't just report outright lies. Their rivals would beat them over the head with it.
    Fox News & MSNBC: hold our beers...

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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    There is just to much competition in the media industry in the US.
    Um, really? Sure doesn't seem like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    Their rivals would beat them over the head with it.
    There is a rival, but mainly just the one. And those cowering deep within The Bubble will always plug their ears and shout "La La La" at anything they try to say.


  27. #987
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    I said I was teasing.
    And I ain't gonna lie here, that situation, after a fast study since I did not ought to know about the pipes, seems to be beneficial to Russia. So I can't be sure on what exactly happened here.Will see.
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  28. #988

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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Go far enough to the right, and far enough to the left, and the two ends meet.
    That's hard to imagine...
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  29. #989
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Some more fact here:
    The pipeline was hit the day that Poland,Denmark and Norway was opening the new Baltic Pipe, competitor to Nord Stream
    Russia piper where hit the day that NATO started a big exercise in Baltic, named Ramstein Alloy
    (that I'm not 100% sure) CIA has informed Germany some days ago for a possible caution hit on the pipes.
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  30. #990

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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    What's the deal with Nord Stream right now?

    Last I heard somebody seems to have intentionally damaged it, spewing leaked gas (mostly methane) and probably preventing it from being turned back on. Sounds like somewhere in the pipeline "network" and impacting both I and II.

    Lots of wild theories, from EU radical environmentalists to the governments of various Nordic and Baltic states.
    Seismic machines picked up three distinct explosions...

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...st-2022-09-27/

    Gosh...who could have done that?
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    And those cowering deep within The Bubble will always plug their ears and shout "La La La" at anything they try to say
    You also need to include people with closed minds. Those that believe in fictitious conspiracies rather than provable truths. if the truth contradicts what they want to believe. Lots of examples of that.
    Last edited by wes4dbt; Sep 27th, 2022 at 04:41 PM.

  32. #992
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    Seismic machines picked up three distinct explosions...

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...st-2022-09-27/

    Gosh...who could have done that?
    Well, since everyone is guessing....

    My question would be, who benefits?

    I don't think Europe wants those pipelines shut down. Seems like a stretch that the US would want to add to Europe's energy problems. They got plenty of other ways to make Russia look bad. Russia could just shut it off, it doesn't need to blow it up.

    My guess is it was Greece. lol

  33. #993
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    You think it was sabator? He turned his P upside down?
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  34. #994
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    You think it was sabator? He turned his P upside down?
    I don't understand. Please provide a FULL and CLEAR explanation. Have you read the documentation? lol

  35. #995
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    I suspect the Unicorn Riders of Narnia myself.

  36. #996
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    He turned his P upside down
    That sounds... messy

    The evidence seems to point to a state actor but I don't see how either side would benefit. Both sides have used stopping trade in energy as a stick to threaten the other side with but why remove the carrot of being able to turn it back on again.

    I reckon S.P.E.C.T.R.E..
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill

    Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd

  37. #997
    King of sapila
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Might be Greece.
    Our prime idiot send weapons to Ukraine so they might have been used for this.

    After some research my opinion is that this attack will prevent Russia and Germany to have any energy collaboration and will see Poland as a key player in the energy region.
    This seems to benefit Anglo-American axis.
    As said, Russia could just close the pipes.

    Again, I'm not saying who did this and who didn't but this is what I can come up with also in accordance with the previous post I wrote about NATO exercise etc.
    ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ
    πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν·

  38. #998
    King of sapila
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    So, not that you did not expect it but the Russian referendum was Yes.
    ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ
    πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν·

  39. #999
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    They didn't even bother to disguise the rigging. You can't get 99% to agree that the world is round, but they got 99% approval in one area.

    Why bother even pretending to conduct the vote if you're going to report such an absurd result? You might as well just say that you did and leave it at that. Saves a lot of time and money that way.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  40. #1000
    PowerPoster
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    Re: Current Russia Ukraine tensions

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    They didn't even bother to disguise the rigging. You can't get 99% to agree that the world is round, but they got 99% approval in one area.

    Why bother even pretending to conduct the vote if you're going to report such an absurd result? You might as well just say that you did and leave it at that. Saves a lot of time and money that way.
    This might fall under the term "Active Measures". Watched that documentary last night. Putin is very active in political influencing, money laundering, electronic hacking. It's more profitable than putting actual boots on the ground. His oligarchs pumped 100's of millions into Trumps campaign and pocket, bought lots of Trumps Tower condos, also lots of social media influencing.

    It's on Hulu.

    I don't think think the EU, UK or the US was his target audience for this illegal election.

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