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Thread: Stop divisive practices in schools

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    Stop divisive practices in schools

    Gov. Glenn Youngkin of Virginia is taking forward thinking steps to stop divisive practices in schools. For example, CRT...it is not currently taught in K - 12 in Virginia but we need to make sure it doesn't start. Even if you don't live in Virginia you should email the Governor and let him know your thoughts.

    helpeducation@governor.virginia.gov.

    https://www.salon.com/2022/01/25/vir...jects_partner/

    Here were some of my comments to the Governor...

    Even though I don't live in Virginia and CRT is currently not taught in K-12 there I wanted to follow-up with my previous emails that the Governor is right to jump out in front of those radical leftist, socialist, communist, God hating, liberals. We need to find solutions before the problems start.
    Last edited by TysonLPrice; Jan 26th, 2022 at 06:28 AM.
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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    Ah, a lazy Wednesday morning, sitting on the banks of a forum, doing a bit of trolling to see whether or not anything is biting.
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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Ah, a lazy Wednesday morning, sitting on the banks of a forum, doing a bit of trolling to see whether or not anything is biting.
    There have been a few republican governors that did something similar and they were severely flamed. That was what I was hoping for.
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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    Yeah? Just watch Idaho politics. We've made national news, of late, due to the Lt. Governor feuding with the Governor. When he steps out of the state, she enacts a bunch of executive orders, which he promptly (and retroactively, if necessary) rescinds as soon as he returns. It's fine theatre.

    What didn't make national news is the Lt. Governor's task force on CRT. Not that it talked about CRT, as far as anybody can tell. It's not even sure they could define CRT, but that wasn't the point. In fact, the task force wasn't the fun part. It was largely ignored, even in this state, and whether anything came of it regarding policy isn't clear. What DID come out of it was a lawsuit because the Lt. Governor broke a few disclosure laws, opted to disregard the Attorney General, hire private counsel, fought the suit, and lost. She's currently demanding that taxpayers cover her legal costs. In the state budget, it's duck feed, but the whole thing is entertaining political theatre. Every Friday evening there's an update, which I find to be one of the most entertaining shows on the radio.
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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Yeah? Just watch Idaho politics. We've made national news, of late, due to the Lt. Governor feuding with the Governor. When he steps out of the state, she enacts a bunch of executive orders, which he promptly (and retroactively, if necessary) rescinds as soon as he returns. It's fine theatre.

    What didn't make national news is the Lt. Governor's task force on CRT. Not that it talked about CRT, as far as anybody can tell. It's not even sure they could define CRT, but that wasn't the point. In fact, the task force wasn't the fun part. It was largely ignored, even in this state, and whether anything came of it regarding policy isn't clear. What DID come out of it was a lawsuit because the Lt. Governor broke a few disclosure laws, opted to disregard the Attorney General, hire private counsel, fought the suit, and lost. She's currently demanding that taxpayers cover her legal costs. In the state budget, it's duck feed, but the whole thing is entertaining political theatre. Every Friday evening there's an update, which I find to be one of the most entertaining shows on the radio.
    I enjoy watching the Governor Ron DeSantis show. The mini me of Trump. He is constantly trying to "out conservative" the pack with his antics.
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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    I enjoy watching the Governor Ron DeSantis show. The mini me of Trump. He is constantly trying to "out conservative" the pack with his antics.
    WATCH IT

    I moved from Texas where I thought a Governor like Abbott couldn't be out done.... Then I moved to FLORIDA

    When a huge company like Pfizer says their one drug won't help against Omicron - DeSantis shouldn't argue and threaten to sue the United States Government. He should shut up.

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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve R Jones View Post
    WATCH IT

    I moved from Texas where I thought a Governor like Abbott couldn't be out done.... Then I moved to FLORIDA
    Yep Abbot and DeSantis are constantly trying to "Out Trump" each other. Those two states are a fine example of what will happen to the nation if the republicans get the house and senate majorities.
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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    Huh? Trump has always been a moderate Democrat.

    That's why he is so vehemently opposed by Clinton Democrats and Reagan Republicans (turds of a feather who flock together).

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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    Yep Abbot and DeSantis are constantly trying to "Out Trump" each other. Those two states are a fine example of what will happen to the nation if the republicans get the house and senate majorities.
    Well, there's a really good chance that's going to happen. So buckle up. lol

    With the lack of COVID control, a fractured democratic party and inflation. Doesn't look good for the democrats come midterms. $4.25 gal gas prices will lose you a lot of votes.

    CRT seems like more of the same, people trying to push there beliefs into the classroom.

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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    Well, there's a really good chance that's going to happen. So buckle up. lol

    With the lack of COVID control, a fractured democratic party and inflation. Doesn't look good for the democrats come midterms. $4.25 gal gas prices will lose you a lot of votes.

    CRT seems like more of the same, people trying to push there beliefs into the classroom.
    Agreed
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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    Yeah, those Cathode Ray Tubes really sucked. They took up way too much space on your desk, were hard to move, were nearly impossible to add touch capability to, but at least the better ones had those de-gaussing buttons that were entertaining.
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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    Well, there's a really good chance that's going to happen. So buckle up. lol
    Agreed. I really wanted Biden to do well but he's been looking pretty ineffectual to me. It's a shame.

    Can you guys answer something for me as I'd like a US perspective on this. I feel like Biden's two biggest domestic failings have been his build back better and his voting rights bill, both of which have gone absolutely nowhere. From a British perspective they both seem monolithic, each with everything but the kitchen sink chucked in. I get that that means you can get loads done with a single bill but it also means that there's more to object to, which is why you've got a couple of dissenters stalling the entire thing. It's an all the eggs in one basket approach. That would be pretty much unheard of in the UK, we'd put through individual small pieces of legislation meaning that, while a few might get opposed, the majority could sail through.

    So my question is, why the big bills? Is that normal in US politics and is there something about your legislative process that encourages this approach? It seems counter productive to me.


    Edit> and I shall be extremely disappointed if I don't get a pun from Shaggy about the size of my bills.
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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    So my question is, why the big bills? Is that normal in US politics and is there something about your legislative process that encourages this approach? It seems counter productive to me.

    For the democrats:

    I think somehow they think they came away with a mandate. They wanted to undo four years of republican rule in a couple of fell swoops. I just don't think there is an appetite for that in this country. I guess you could say the ACA was huge but it was mostly directed a health care. And if you talk to a republican they will tell you that is normal democratic behavior. Throw money and laws at problems.
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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    My GUESS,

    A lot of campaign promises, trying to please all the various democratic sub groups. The Democrats don't have one cohesive agenda, though they did come together to beat Trump. Every time they talked about removing something from the build back better bill, Sanders or AOC or some other faction of the Democratic party would cry foul.

    They voting right act, I'm not sure what happened. Not sure it was a bill that could be passed by a simple majority in the Senate. Some take 60 votes. And I got no idea which bills fall into that category.

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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    My GUESS,

    A lot of campaign promises, trying to please all the various democratic sub groups. The Democrats don't have one cohesive agenda, though they did come together to beat Trump. Every time they talked about removing something from the build back better bill, Sanders or AOC or some other faction of the Democratic party would cry foul.

    They voting right act, I'm not sure what happened. Not sure it was a bill that could be passed by a simple majority in the Senate. Some take 60 votes. And I got no idea which bills fall into that category.
    It doesn't help that the republicans are in lockstep and will not give the democrats a perceived win on just about anything. It isn't about the American people at all it is about the two parties constantly fighting each other.
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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    It doesn't help that the republicans are in lockstep and will not give the democrats a perceived win on just about anything. It isn't about the American people at all it is about the two parties constantly fighting each other.
    I've felt that for a long time. What's best for the American people is not their main concern or even their second. But they blame each other for that, so they can justify very little getting accomplished.

    But the Republicans do seem to be better at having a united front. They seem very willing to purge any decenters.

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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    They voting right act, I'm not sure what happened
    My understanding (which could well be inaccurate) is they had enough of a majority to theoretically pass the bill but not enough to get past the filibuster in the first place. So they sought to get a temporary change to the filibuster but two of their members opposed that so it's stalled. I can never remember which if your houses is which so I won't try to guess which house it stalled in.
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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    My understanding (which could well be inaccurate) is they had enough of a majority to theoretically pass the bill but not enough to get past the filibuster in the first place. So they sought to get a temporary change to the filibuster but two of their members opposed that so it's stalled. I can never remember which if your houses is which so I won't try to guess which house it stalled in.
    The democrats have a simple majority in the house so they can override the republicans. The senate is a fifty fifty split with the democratic vice president breaking ties. But if you can't get it to the floor, need ten more republicans and all democrats, nothing gets done.

    I truly believe the American experiment with democracy is failing. It is very possible the next election can literally be stolen.
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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    I would agree with Wes on this.

    Budget bills don't deal with the filibuster in the Senate, so anything that can be construed as a budget bill can be passed by a simple majority. However, the majority in the senate is a single vote, which means that ANY objection can stop the bill, which is what happened to the Build Back Better Act. As it was, there were some house Democrats saying they would oppose even that because it didn't go far enough. So, the bill was a compromise of getting enough into it that the left fringe would support it, while leaving enough out that Joe Mansion wouldn't block it in the senate. When he said he wouldn't support what came out of the house, that was that.

    The voting act appears to have been the same thing. I feel that was a mistake. There are parts that could probably pass, but it is a long standing tradition in the US to attach less popular measures to more popular measures to get them through. I think that's what happened with the voting bill, and the result was that none of it passed.

    Now, will they come back and pass what CAN be agreed on? Possibly, but I don't think it matters, at this point. They aren't getting credit for what they have done, but plenty of blame for what they have not done.

    There's a reason Joe Biden didn't win all the other times he ran. It's pretty nearly the same reason he won this time: He's not Donald Trump. His problem the last few times is that Trump wasn't running, so getting a bland, consensus candidate, wasn't as important.
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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    I almost skipped past this thread since it just seemed like a run-of-the-mill American political discussion which tend to bore me to sleep.....until I looked up what CRT actually means.

    I ain't have much to say on whether it should be taught in schools or not. But based on how Wikipedia describes CRT, it seems quite benign. What I got from it is that it could be used as a framework for promoting equality.
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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    I almost skipped past this thread since it just seemed like a run-of-the-mill American political discussion which tend to bore me to sleep.....until I looked up what CRT actually means.

    I ain't have much to say on whether it should be taught in schools or not. But based on how Wikipedia describes CRT, it seems quite benign. What I got from it is that it could be used as a framework for promoting equality.
    Yes...I is an upper level study. Fox news and other far right outlets turned it into a boogieman that is teaching white kids to feel guilty. The great unwashed of America took it to the streets to outlaw teaching something in grade schools that isn't even taught in grade schools.
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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    Oh wow. That is interesting. Though I've always been clear about my hatred of the radical left with their SJW/feminazi madness, I'm not sure how to feel about this one. I guess, like feminism which started out as something benign and turned into something spiteful and evil, this CRT thing could also turn out the same way eventually. I'm on the sidelines with this one. I feel very neutral about this to be honest.
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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    Oh wow. That is interesting. Though I've always been clear about my hatred of the radical left with their SJW/feminazi madness, I'm not sure how to feel about this one. I guess, like feminism which started out as something benign and turned into something spiteful and evil, this CRT thing could also turn out the same way eventually. I'm on the sidelines with this one. I feel very neutral about this to be honest.
    It has been taught in colleges for over forty years. Far right republicans just discovered it and realized how evil it is. Now they want to make sure it doesn't infect our white kids in K-12 with guilt and shame.

    Thanks!
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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    I think there are two different conversations going on about CRT because there are two different definitions. I think the leftist definition is the original one but it doesn't really matter - if you want to have the discussion with someone from the other side of the fence you need to consider their definition in order to understand the conversation you're both having.

    I'm oversimplifying but I would summarise the conservative view as "you're going to teach my pre-teen child that he's a hateful racist by simple dint of him having been born white". I can understand why they find that objectionable.

    I don't believe that's what CRT is at all but I don't see how the conversation can move forward until the definitions being discussed are mutually established.
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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    CRT is a moniker used for racialism in general by your run of the mill Fox News supporter.

    People on the left can honestly claim: "CRT isn't taught in K-12." But when they do so they're not getting to the root issue of the racialism that is being taught. Of course people on the right don't help themselves by continuing to call it CRT.

    It doesn't matter though. I know that I've personally told this to TysonLPrice before and yet you still see the same "CRT isn't taught in K-12" comment. I know that I've personally told my Trump loving neighbor that it's ignorant to keep using the term CRT and yet he still goes off on rants about how they're teaching it to his middle schooler. It's disappointing because if I put TysonLPrice in a conversation with my neighbor, the conversation would basically be the same noise you can find on any corporate media channel/radio.
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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    Agreed. I really wanted Biden to do well but he's been looking pretty ineffectual to me. It's a shame.

    Can you guys answer something for me as I'd like a US perspective on this. I feel like Biden's two biggest domestic failings have been his build back better and his voting rights bill, both of which have gone absolutely nowhere. From a British perspective they both seem monolithic, each with everything but the kitchen sink chucked in. I get that that means you can get loads done with a single bill but it also means that there's more to object to, which is why you've got a couple of dissenters stalling the entire thing. It's an all the eggs in one basket approach. That would be pretty much unheard of in the UK, we'd put through individual small pieces of legislation meaning that, while a few might get opposed, the majority could sail through.

    So my question is, why the big bills? Is that normal in US politics and is there something about your legislative process that encourages this approach? It seems counter productive to me.
    Sorry to jump back up, but I thought this was a good question. I did read the subsequent ones though, which invoked a few responses from me.

    First, yeah, I also fear that the U.S. democratic experience is on the verge of failing. And Trump further weakened some fault-points that we were already having. Personally, I believe that Russia is getting so bold about the Ukraine and China about Taiwan because they both see the U.S. as potentially weaker than it's ever been since before WWII.

    Secondly, the two party division in this country has been there from almost the beginning, but it's presently more extreme than it's been in some time (possibly going back to just prior to the Civil War). We've just totally lost the middle-ground, and any ability to speak "across the aisle", particularly on main street (forgetting about in the Capital building). Said differently, we've all gotten terribly dogmatic, and that's true on BOTH sides, all ready to flair-up.

    History shows that these strong divisions make a country particularly vulnerable to violence and anarchy (and we can see little signs virtually everywhere).

    Personally, I've long wished for a parliamentary system here in the U.S. It just makes sooooo much more sense, giving smaller parties power in their ability to provide alliances that give political power. Also, the parliament (basically, our Congress) also decides the P.M. (basically our President), which makes tremendous sense in terms of actually governing. But, short of another civil war, I don't think that's happening.

    Funky, to give my answer to your question, it seems to have evolved into that because the President (or whoever is really pushing the Bill) knows that all the pieces won't get passed unless it's done all-at-once. It's just become part of our political art-of-the-compromise, with everyone getting something while also holding their nose at the other stuff. Typically, there's one big piece to the bill, but also all kinds of other stuff to appease Senators who wouldn't otherwise vote on the big piece.

    I'll absolutely agree that it's just a big mess. And I also think a return to the Talking Filibuster would do wonders for the process. When the Senate changed the rules to allow a "set-aside" when they couldn't end debate was one of the worst decisions they ever made IMHO. Basically, it takes 60 senators to end debate. Before the set-aside, they had to keep considering that bill until the debate ended. But, with the set-aside, the chair can just move that bill to the side (effectively killing it) and go on with business.

    But, what that effectively did is make a 60 vote requirement for any bill to pass, which is ridiculous, especially considering what percentage of the populous the 50 current Republican Senators actually represent.

    It's just an ungovernable mess.
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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    In another vein, personally, I think we should also take a good hard look at CST (or maybe it should be called CGT) before looking at CRT. And I'm gonna be coy and let y'all figure out what CST/CGT might be. To my eyes, the presence of CST/CGT is much more obvious than CRT.
    Last edited by Elroy; Jan 28th, 2022 at 12:03 PM.
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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    I'm guess Sex and Gender?

    (Great answer by the way)
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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    I'm guess Sex and Gender?
    Funky's the winner.
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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    But he ALWAYS guesses that. Ask him something else like, "what does the average person spend most of their time thinking about?" You'll see that his answer is always the same.
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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    I picture two Nicholson Jokers, one blue and one red, flanking a Trump.

    Trump says "Leave decent people alone."

    Both Jokers go "Decent people shouldn't live here. Jinx!"

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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    People on the left can honestly claim: "CRT isn't taught in K-12." But when they do so they're not getting to the root issue of the racialism that is being taught. Of course people on the right don't help themselves by continuing to call it CRT.
    It seems to me you are mixing two different topics together. CRT is a college course. Racism is a whole other topic. The former is a study on the effect of that latter on our history and present condition regarding race.

    It doesn't matter though. I know that I've personally told this to TysonLPrice before and yet you still see the same "CRT isn't taught in K-12" comment.
    I can't wrap my head around what you are saying you told me before. When I say CRT is not taught in K-12 that the "other side" is really saying racism is taught in schools and "my side" doesn't get that?
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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    "what does the average person spend most of their time thinking about?"
    I'd still be half right

    It seems to me you are mixing two different topics together.
    Yes but I think DD is mixing them deliberately (sorry if I'm putting words in your mouth, DD). What's being said is "CRT is being taught in schools" but what's meant is "racial division is being taught in schools". We can debate the correct meaning of CRT until the cows come home but we'll be missing the point of actual debate.

    Personally, I don't think racial division is being taught in schools at all, I think it's largely an illusory fear whipped up by certain elements of the right wing press along with a few overly zealous left wing activists. But if someone does believe that it is taught in schools, that's something I can understand them being concerned about. So to me the discussion should not be around CRT, that's a distraction. It should be around racial division although that's a woollier term.

    I also think there's discussion to be had about the manner in which race might be being taught in schools. I think we absolutely should be teaching kids history... the whole of history... even the really uncomfortable bits. And we should be teaching them about the impact that history continues to have on the present. I also think we should be engaging them in critical discussion about the best ways to address those impacts. (I think the conservative west is woefully unwilling to engage in that discussion.) What we shouldn't be doing, though, is trying to instil "white guilt" in our children. It's counter productive and invites push back. I don't believe anyone serious is doing that but there is a vocal few who do so I get where the concern comes from.

    I suspect if we had discussions where we explained and listened to nuance instead of just throwing out the latest buzz words we'd all find that our positions are closer than they at first appear.
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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    Ok, I'm going to give my opinion on what I consider "teaching" CRT to be. And also, when in a University, they should be able to teach anything they want. This is only an issue when we're talking about pre-University school (elementary, middle, high).

    For me, "teaching" CRT is teaching students that racism is built into the fabric of the way our society/culture is constructed, possibly built into our laws and constitution. And, implicitly (or maybe explicitly), it's teaching that that's a bad thing and is something we should feel guilty about. And, one step further, that it's something we should often be vigilant about, being "on the lookout" for when it's happening and trying to correct/stop it.

    Now, I'm not going to go into much depth about my opinions on whether or not this should happen. Let it suffice to say that I don't have a clear opinion. There's a part of me that believes we should work toward having a racism free society. However, there's another part that doesn't think we should be "guilting" our children. There are also other parts I'll remain mute on at this time.
    Any software I post in these forums written by me is provided “AS IS” without warranty of any kind, expressed or implied, and permission is hereby granted, free of charge and without restriction, to any person obtaining a copy. Please understand that I’ve been programming since the mid-1970s and still have some of that code. My contemporary VB6 project is approaching 1,000 modules. In addition, I have a “VB6 random code folder” that is overflowing. I’ve been at this long enough to truly not know with absolute certainty from whence every single line of my code has come, with much of it coming from programmers under my employ who signed intellectual property transfers. I have not deliberately attempted to remove any licenses and/or attributions from any software. If someone finds that I have inadvertently done so, I sincerely apologize, and, upon notice and reasonable proof, will re-attach those licenses and/or attributions. To all, peace and happiness.

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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    I don't agree with the 'feeling guilty' part. If you are aware of a problem, you should work to fix it, but that doesn't mean it's your fault. I don't think many people disagree that racism is wrong, and removing it is right. That is possible without guilt.
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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    Was it ever about instiliing guilt?

    I thought it was a way to demonize your neighbor and feel false virtue for doing so. "I'm not the problem, it's that other guy."

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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I don't agree with the 'feeling guilty' part. If you are aware of a problem, you should work to fix it, but that doesn't mean it's your fault. I don't think many people disagree that racism is wrong, and removing it is right. That is possible without guilt.
    I'm not entirely comfortable making the "conservative" side of this debate, but we do need to remember that we're talking about kids, and also teachers who have all kinds of varying agendas. We, as adults, can rationally discuss this stuff, but children just haven't developed sufficient Super-Ego (or Kohlberg's or Piaget's level of moral development, or whatever you want to call it) to deal with these issues without potentially getting distraught. That's one of the things that gives me pause before we start throwing this into elementary school curricula.

    Maybe upper-level high-school would be ok.
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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    Yeah, that's a good point.

    I didn't really know what race was until high school (which, for me, was 9-12 grade). I thought I hadn't met anybody of any other race during my early schooling (it was a TINY, hippy-ish private school) until I was thinking back on those years and realized that there had been a gal with dark brown skin and black, curly, hair. I have no idea what race she was (her name was Inidan, but in that school, that meant nothing), but at the time, she wasn't any race.

    It would be different for kids in other schools, but I don't think kids really understand all that until they get on towards the later grades. At the point where cliques are forming, that would be a good time, because kids REALLY understand discrimination at that time.
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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    It would be different for kids in other schools, but I don't think kids really understand all that until they get on towards the later grades. At the point where cliques are forming, that would be a good time, because kids REALLY understand discrimination at that time.
    They certainly know how to discriminate, I wouldn't give them credit for understanding it. I went to six different high schools, no fun being the new kid.

    Discrimination isn't limited to race. Maybe they should be teaching, Critical Discrimination Theory.

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    Re: Stop divisive practices in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    They certainly know how to discriminate ... Maybe they should be teaching, Critical Discrimination Theory.
    That's actually true, Wes. But that opens up all kinds of other stuff.

    For one, CRT isn't exactly about individuals being racist. It's an abstract theory about a society being racist. Now, if we're going to talk about individuals being racist, sure, I think we should try and discourage that at all levels of education. And maybe teachers should have some intervention training on how to do that. (Maybe they do ... I don't really know.)

    And, there's also another side to that coin. In a certain sense, we're all racist and we always will be. We're also sexist and many other things, and always will be. If we define racism (and sexism) as just "la différance" (as opposed to better/worse), then we can see all of this in a different light. It is human nature (and, for that matter, the nature of all living things) to identify differences and attempt to make groupings and categories. We couldn't navigate life for 10 minutes if we didn't do this. We've got to be able to differentiate a chair from a bookshelf. We just get into trouble when we start saying that all chairs are the same and all have the same properties. Some chairs are comfortable and some aren't. At some level, we've got to evaluate each "chair" on its own merits.

    And personally, IMHO, to teach those kinds of things at any level of schooling would be absolutely fine. But, for me, that's not what CRT is about.

    To make an analogy, we can argue that our strong sense of "personal possessions" (particularly land, and the use/abuse of it) goes back to John Calvin's writings of the reformation and explored and developed more by Max Weber's ideas of "methodological individualism". (The idea of "possessions" certainly goes back farther, but John Calvin and the reformation certainly changed the way we think of them.) And people who study this stuff are studying the philosophy of cultural development. The post-modernists call it cultural archaeology, and it can be quite fascinating, but not for the light-at-heart, and subject to much interpretation. Also, at the end of the day, it doesn't change anything, other than possibly raising a bit of awareness.

    For me, CRT falls into this type of study ... not for the light-at-heart and not for children.
    Any software I post in these forums written by me is provided “AS IS” without warranty of any kind, expressed or implied, and permission is hereby granted, free of charge and without restriction, to any person obtaining a copy. Please understand that I’ve been programming since the mid-1970s and still have some of that code. My contemporary VB6 project is approaching 1,000 modules. In addition, I have a “VB6 random code folder” that is overflowing. I’ve been at this long enough to truly not know with absolute certainty from whence every single line of my code has come, with much of it coming from programmers under my employ who signed intellectual property transfers. I have not deliberately attempted to remove any licenses and/or attributions from any software. If someone finds that I have inadvertently done so, I sincerely apologize, and, upon notice and reasonable proof, will re-attach those licenses and/or attributions. To all, peace and happiness.

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