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Thread: Learning Visual Basic Net

  1. #1

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    Learning Visual Basic Net

    I have seen words like these:
    Enumerable.Range
    IEnumerable(Of String) In lines.Split(84).ToArray()
    <Runtime.CompilerServices.Extension>
    Environment.NewLine
    String.Join

    I have bought books that teach basics like for loops and do while etc but nothing more advanced like the words above and more.

    Any recommendations of books that would help? How did you learn it?
    MSDN is good after you learn and know what to look for but not for explanations of what is happening.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    Nope.

    There is a problem with this type of thing, which is that it is relatively easy to write an introductory book and utterly impossible to write a comprehensive book that is anything other than introductory. The reason for this state is because there are a bunch of simple topics that need to be covered in an introduction to the language. You've listed some of those because you've seen them in books: "The basics like for loops and do while etc."

    Once you have those basics down, though, the realm of topics expands so dramatically that no book could possibly cover it all and still be manageable. So what you get instead is a bunch of books, often very large books, that delve into a specific detail. These are often not specific to any particular language, they generally assume a large amount of familiarity with the language, and they don't cover everything. Any one book on any one topic can't cover everything, because all the subjects overlap a bit, so they have to decide where to leave off, which means that pieces aren't covered. For example, I have an excellent book on multi-threading in Windows. Already it is crossing languages and it is stopping with Windows, even though multi-threading is handled on every modern OS. To read it, you need to be at least passably familiar with C, though you don't need very deep understanding of that language. C#, which is quite similar to VB.NET, would be enough, and a fair amount of the code does look to be in C#, though the discussion is not about any one language. Furthermore, the book is already assuming that you have an understanding of any construct they use, such as IEnumerable, generics, and so forth, or that you can look them up, since the book is already massive and isn't going to take the time to explain any of that. Therefore, it's a very specific book that covers one specific topic in great detail and does so in roughly 800 pages.

    Just imagine how many books there would be if there was one such specific book for EVERY topic. In fact, coverage is quite sparse, in practice. People write books only when they have a topic that both interests them, one that they are familiar enough with that they feel they have something to say, and one where they can put reasonable borders on the topic. For example, I'm not sure whether there is a good book on generics, since it's a topic that may be too broad and have too fuzzy borders to be suitable for a book. It seems like there might be a book on LINQ, except that there does appear to be a few different sub-topics in LINQ, such as LINQToSQL and some others. However, even if there were such a book, it would already assume that you have a deep understanding of the language before you got there. It would likely assume that you knew some SQL flavor, as well, probably Transact-SQL (t-SQL), and probably that you understood generics.

    So, you are left to lift yourself up in stages. You learn a bit about A, then realize that to go further you need to learn a bit about B, which leads you to learn a bit about C, which then requires you to learn a bit more about A, and so on. One of the side effects of this approach is that you may never come to believe that you REALLY understand A at all and that there is always a bunch more about A that you need to learn. Therefore, you may never feel so fully cognizant of A that you think that you could write a book yourself. That also probably reduces the number of books that are out there on topics above the introductory.
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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    Thanks that's a good explanation. You probably get my question over and over again.
    I think then my best bet is to look to the forum for some answers then make my own notes for what I am doing, which is minor in the overall but big to me.

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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    VB.NET is not a starter language. Its roots imply that it is a starter language but really it is not. I am not surprised that it seems inaccessible to you. If I were learning to program I simply would NOT start with VB.NET.
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

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    Frenzied Member PlausiblyDamp's Avatar
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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    VB.NET is not a starter language. Its roots imply that it is a starter language but really it is not. I am not surprised that it seems inaccessible to you. If I were learning to program I simply would NOT start with VB.NET.
    VB.Net is a perfectly fine starter language, a lot of the constructs are things you would expect in any language - variables, arrays, functions etc. The fact it can get more complex doesn't prevent somebody using it to learn the basics of programming. More involved topics like OO, inheritance, generics etc. can be picked up when needed.

    Even the examples above have online help, typing any of them into the IDE and hitting F1 takes you to the online help, often with examples.

    There might be arguments for other languages to use as a learning language e.g. Python, but it is unfair to discount VB.Net as it can be perfectly fine as a starting language.

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    Frenzied Member PlausiblyDamp's Avatar
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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPumper View Post
    Thanks that's a good explanation. You probably get my question over and over again.
    I think then my best bet is to look to the forum for some answers then make my own notes for what I am doing, which is minor in the overall but big to me.
    Often in programming a new construct can seem difficult until you have either found a good reason to use it yourself, or a decent example / documentation can be found. The online help can really be useful as well, searching for any of those examples online (especially the MS docs site) will often return useful information, or posting specific questions here will often get very good (if somewhat opinionated ) results.

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    Karen Payne MVP kareninstructor's Avatar
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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    Although VB.NET is a language that can accomplish many task into todayís world if you are going to have a future coding C# is the language to select from the Visual Studio ecosystem as there is a wealth of resources out on the web to learn from.

    Although there are many free sites for learning C#, PluralSight which is a pay for site has over 38 hours of training courses. Pluralsight has many benefits from watching on any devices to using AI to assist you in where to start and where to go to next. On average we have new developers use PluralSight for six months with a internal channel (channels can guide developers on a specific path).

    Attachment 183275

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    Frenzied Member PlausiblyDamp's Avatar
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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    Quote Originally Posted by kareninstructor View Post
    Although VB.NET is a language that can accomplish many task into todayís world if you are going to have a future coding C# is the language to select from the Visual Studio ecosystem as there is a wealth of resources out on the web to learn from.

    Although there are many free sites for learning C#, PluralSight which is a pay for site has over 38 hours of training courses. Pluralsight has many benefits from watching on any devices to using AI to assist you in where to start and where to go to next. On average we have new developers use PluralSight for six months with a internal channel (channels can guide developers on a specific path).

    Attachment 183275
    If you include some of the recent changes to C# in the latest release (top level statements, file scoped namespaces, etc.) it can really make C# an accessible language, possibly easier than VB.Net in some cases (as well as being potentially more useful if you are looking at a career in programming)

  9. #9
    eXtreme Programmer .paul.'s Avatar
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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    Here's a few tips...

    Enumerable.Range

    This returns a range of numbers - Enumerable.Range(1, 10).ToArray would give you an integer array {1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10}

    Environment.NewLine

    This is just a CR and a LF in most situations, but could just be a single CR or a single LF.

    String.Join

    This joins an array of strings...

    Code:
    Dim strings() As String = {"one", "two", "three!"}
    msgbox(String.Join(" (one thousand) ", strings))
    The msgbox would show - "one (one thousand) two (one thousand) three!"
    Last edited by .paul.; Dec 12th, 2021 at 03:19 PM.

  10. #10
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    VB.NET is not a starter language. Its roots imply that it is a starter language but really it is not. I am not surprised that it seems inaccessible to you. If I were learning to program I simply would NOT start with VB.NET.
    I think Python might be the best starter language in 2021. It's syntax is a little strange but is as simple a language as you can find in 2021. The real challenge in Python is learning its massive eco-system of 3rd party libraries.

    Quote Originally Posted by PlausiblyDamp View Post
    VB.Net is a perfectly fine starter language, a lot of the constructs are things you would expect in any language - variables, arrays, functions etc. The fact it can get more complex doesn't prevent somebody using it to learn the basics of programming. More involved topics like OO, inheritance, generics etc. can be picked up when needed.

    Even the examples above have online help, typing any of them into the IDE and hitting F1 takes you to the online help, often with examples.

    There might be arguments for other languages to use as a learning language e.g. Python, but it is unfair to discount VB.Net as it can be perfectly fine as a starting language.
    I agree with this as well. VB.Net is perfectly fine as a starter language. It can be as simple or as complicated as you want to make it. Even the code OP posted can be re-written using simpler statements and data structures.


    Quote Originally Posted by MrPumper View Post
    I have seen words like these:
    Enumerable.Range
    IEnumerable(Of String) In lines.Split(84).ToArray()
    <Runtime.CompilerServices.Extension>
    Environment.NewLine
    String.Join

    I have bought books that teach basics like for loops and do while etc but nothing more advanced like the words above and more.

    Any recommendations of books that would help? How did you learn it?
    MSDN is good after you learn and know what to look for but not for explanations of what is happening.
    I agree with Shaggy. You really need to take this a step at a time.

    As for that code you posted. I recommend first familiarizing yourself with how classes and interfaces work, how to call methods etc. Then you need to learn about generics and finally, you need to learn about LINQ. I'm not going to lie to you, if you're a total beginner to any of these concepts this is going to be rough for you. It took me like a couple weeks to learn it and about an additional month to get fluent in it but I already had like 20 years experience in some flavor of BASIC or another and later I did quite a bit of C++ so by the time I came to VB.Net so it was quite easy for me to pick it up. I cannot say it would be the same for you. Depends on your constitution I guess.

    Do you have any background in programming at all and if so, what language?
    Last edited by Niya; Dec 12th, 2021 at 03:53 PM.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    I do have some history in programming. I started when Basic was just Basic, Microsoft first Visual Basic, VB6, VB Net.
    I only program occasionally for something to do, not as a profession. My problem is some of the new terms I just don't have a clue, here, Paul just gave me some terms that have and will help me. I have always programmed the way I think and I had a syntax of a term so I new what it does, can't seem to find that now.
    This forum has really helped.

  12. #12
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    Well since you have a background in BASIC, I don't anticipate any real difficulty learning some of the more advanced concepts of VB.Net. Just take it one step at a time. You can get plenty of help on these boards. I learned how use functional LINQ fluently on these very forums just by reading jmc's posts. It's not that difficult once you're willing.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  13. #13
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    I wouldn't start with Python. It's a popular language, though it seems a bit niche, to me. However, it seems to have charted it's own syntactical path.

    Generally, languages are all the same at some basic level. You end up with loops, conditionals, and the like. There are syntactical trees and lots of bells and whistles that have been added to various languages, but algorithms are algorithms. There are two main syntactic lines: C and BASIC. Lots of mainstream languages are C-style. A few are BASIC-style. And then there are the languages that charted their own course. Python is one of those, as far as I can tell. If you start out there, you might end up staying there just because you can't readily move on. C, C++, C#, Java, and JavaScript are all in the C syntactical family. Those are probably the most significant languages today. I prefer the BASIC line, but it's good to know a bit of both. Whether it is also good to know some unique language depends largely on what you intend to do with it.
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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    All I know, is that if I had started out with VB.NET I would have ended the whole thing shortly afterwards and possibly my life with it. For the last 20 years and up to even the recent past I would have found it really hard to recommend VB in any incarnation given Microsoft's proven disinterest in all variants.

    Both are now perhaps regaining some traction (VB6 especially due to external development) but if I had to suggest either one to a newb I'd still be hard-pressed to make a decision. I would certainly not suggest C# as C as a language is fairly impenetrable and really not a starter language. We aren't trying to put people off here are we?

    In fact for the Windows desktop I can't see myself suggesting anything that would make sense to a newb. on Windows currently. Not until the current developments have panned out and we can see the feasibility of each (RADBasic/TwinBasic/OlafBasic, see also VB.NET's future in non-MS hands). Whilst the direction of Windows as a usable desktop o/s seems unsettled (is it a tablet/desktop/phone/fridge os or an advertising platform?), I wouldn't even recommend Windows at the moment and that is from a die-hard Windows dev.

    I'd probably suggest going for a BASIC variant on a platform like the Raspberry Pi being a starter language on a platform suitable for beginners. Python might be a better choice on that platform too. Javascript is ubiquitous everywhere but if you want to create desktop apps it is not really suitable anymore despite my efforts to prove it so.

    For a starter I wouldn't even ask the question here. The answers will be wrong. Any starter needs to go to the locations where the newbs are and ask the same question there.
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

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    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    All I know, is that if I had started out with VB.NET I would have ended the whole thing shortly afterwards and possibly my life with it. For the last 20 years and up to even the recent past I would have found it really hard to recommend VB in any incarnation given Microsoft's proven disinterest in all variants.
    I would never recommend anything with BASIC to any person looking to become a programmer with no previous background in programming. If his goal is requires something simple to learn and use, I'd recommend Python. If he intents to make it a life long career with many opportunities, I'd recommend something with a C based syntax like C++, C# or JavaScript. Like it or not, all the big dogs of the programming world are writing in some language with a C syntax. All of the most brilliant programmers are writing C code, not BASIC. If you want to do elite level programming you need to stay far away from anything with BASIC in the name. If I could start my life over knowing then what I know now, I'd not be in BASIC. In fact, before I die, I hope I'd be in something else. I have a strong desire to move to C# permanently and I'm currently learning Python. but I still have a few things to wrap up in VB.Net. After that, it's C# for me.

    To be clear. I don't think BASIC is bad or anything and you should use it if you like it. I absolutely love VB.Net and wish I could do it forever. But the truth is, the world hates BASIC and loves anything that resembles C and to be perfectly honest, I can't say that I blame them. You're going to get along a lot better out there if you avoid trying to ice skate up hill.
    Last edited by Niya; Dec 13th, 2021 at 05:40 AM.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

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    Frenzied Member PlausiblyDamp's Avatar
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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    Both are now perhaps regaining some traction (VB6 especially due to external development) but if I had to suggest either one to a newb I'd still be hard-pressed to make a decision. I would certainly not suggest C# as C as a language is fairly impenetrable and really not a starter language. We aren't trying to put people off here are we?

    In fact for the Windows desktop I can't see myself suggesting anything that would make sense to a newb. on Windows currently. Not until the current developments have panned out and we can see the feasibility of each (RADBasic/TwinBasic/OlafBasic, see also VB.NET's future in non-MS hands). Whilst the direction of Windows as a usable desktop o/s seems unsettled (is it a tablet/desktop/phone/fridge os or an advertising platform?), I wouldn't even recommend Windows at the moment and that is from a die-hard Windows dev.
    I think that it is unfair to compare C# and C directly in this way, as a starter language C is certainly impenetrable with a heavy reliance on pointers, raw memory allocation / frees, null terminated strings and a fairly opaque set of standard libraries. A modern C# application can be a lot more readable and understandable that any similar C (or even C++) equivalent. If you couple that with the ability to write and run dotnet on windows, mac, linux, and even mobile devices that downplays the Windows aspect as well.

    One of the things that can add complexity to the event driven nature, web apps and the post back / javascript integration etc. being able to just work with simple console apps to learn a language can be a real benefit, doing so with C# is a fairly trivial thing. Even if you don't want to install the free Community Edition, you could use VS Code, or you could just install the free SDK and editor of choice. If you wanted a simple starter "Hello World" in C# it would be a matter of something like the following in a file called hello.cs
    Code:
    using System;
    
    Console.WriteLine("Enter your name:");
    var name= Console.ReadLine();
    Console.WriteLine("Hello " + name);
    that could even be compiled from a command line with csc hello.cs

    As a starter and an introduction to a "C like language" that is a pretty simple starting point.

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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    Print "What are you on about?"
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    ...
    For a starter I wouldn't even ask the question here. The answers will be wrong. Any starter needs to go to the locations where the newbs are and ask the same question there.
    Your post seems to be a bit of a non-sequitur.
    We're not talking about a complete newbie here.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrPumper View Post
    I do have some history in programming. I started when Basic was just Basic, Microsoft first Visual Basic, VB6, VB Net.
    I only program occasionally for something to do, not as a profession. My problem is some of the new terms I just don't have a clue, here, Paul just gave me some terms that have and will help me. I have always programmed the way I think and I had a syntax of a term so I new what it does, can't seem to find that now.
    This forum has really helped.
    "Anyone can do any amount of work, provided it isn't the work he is supposed to be doing at that moment" Robert Benchley, 1930

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    Frenzied Member PlausiblyDamp's Avatar
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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    Print "What are you on about?"
    Try that in something like VB6 and it isn't likely to work without a form or a sub main and a project file configured to launch either the form or the sub main. Same with VB.Net, you can't just dive into writing code - you need the surrounding ceremony of a project file etc.

    C# can actually be a really straightforward environment to start learning in.

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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    Quote Originally Posted by passel View Post
    We're not talking about a complete newbie here.
    Really? I returned to the OP and I think we definitely are. When I had merely read some books on for...loops and stuff like that - I think I was an absolute beginner.

    If my post is non sequitur then I think yours is just arriving on shores of East Africa and will take some time before it arrives in the small North European town of context.
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    Quote Originally Posted by PlausiblyDamp View Post
    Try that in something like VB6 and it isn't likely to work without a form or a sub main and a project file configured to launch either the form or the sub main. Same with VB.Net, you can't just dive into writing code - you need the surrounding ceremony of a project file etc.
    Like I said, I wouldn't start here. I'd choose a platform that allows a noob to start as a noob. I think we have all forgotten what we were doing when we were noobs.

    I cut my teeth on the PRINT statement and similar on a 3.5mhz Z80.

    And that reminds me, a language/compiler/IDE similar to that which comes with QB64 is a perfect place to start for an absolute newb. Simple BASIC with none of the clutter. A supported and evolving environment without all the corporate bollox from Microsoft re: the language and the platform.

    Move onto VB when you feel able.
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

  22. #22
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    And that reminds me, a language/compiler/IDE similar to that which comes with QB64 is a perfect place to start for an absolute newb. Simple BASIC with none of the clutter. A supported and evolving environment without all the
    I have a much better idea. I'd suggest Python in Visual Studio. Right now I'm doing just that, learning Python using Visual Studio 2022. It is the most noob friendly combination I've seen in a long time. Like you could just jump right in. Here is a piece of Python code I did trying to figure out arrays, lists etc:-
    Code:
    l=[10,56,"Boo"]
    l2=["Hello","Bye","Race"]
    
    
    for v in l:
        if(type(v) is str):
            print(v.upper())
        else:
            print(v*100)
    You do not get more beginner friendly than this. The added bonus with Visual Studio is that you get to move to the "big dog" languages like C# and VB.Net without having to change IDEs.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  23. #23
    Frenzied Member PlausiblyDamp's Avatar
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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    I have a much better idea. I'd suggest Python in Visual Studio. Right now I'm doing just that, learning Python using Visual Studio 2022. It is the most noob friendly combination I've seen in a long time. Like you could just jump right in. Here is a piece of Python code I did trying to figure out arrays, lists etc:-
    Code:
    l=[10,56,"Boo"]
    l2=["Hello","Bye","Race"]
    
    
    for v in l:
        if(type(v) is str):
            print(v.upper())
        else:
            print(v*100)
    You do not get more beginner friendly than this. The added bonus with Visual Studio is that you get to move to the "big dog" languages like C# and VB.Net without having to change IDEs.
    Oddly enough I haven't tried Python with Visual Studio in years, used to be quite poor integration. Tended to use Anaconda or VS Code, just tried it with VS 2022 and I am amazed how much it has improved! Breakpoints, watch windows, intellisense, refactoring support, pretty much everything I would expect when working with VB or C#! Even like the integration with things like pyplot just worked. The screen shot is from opening a local python script I was playing around with and just running it.
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  24. #24
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    Wow that looks amazing. I hope to be that proficient in Python one day. I'm still very new to it. Just learning the basics.

    But yea, Python integration in Visual Studio 22 is wonderful and on par with the quality we get in VB.Net/C#. They really gave us some good value here.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  25. #25

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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    All I did was ask a simple question!

  26. #26
    Frenzied Member PlausiblyDamp's Avatar
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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPumper View Post
    All I did was ask a simple question!
    Nothing is ever simple on these forums we tend to get a bit enthusiastic in our attempts to be helpful! It isn't a bad thing, honest

  27. #27
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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    But, here we are in the VB forum, suggesting using any other language than BASIC. I think that speaks volumes about Microsoft's mismanagement of this language.

    My suggestion:

    QB64 to learn a 'basic' but real BASIC.

    Our suggestion: Python

    What a place to have arrived at.
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

  28. #28
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    But, here we are in the VB forum, suggesting using any other language than BASIC. I think that speaks volumes about Microsoft's mismanagement of this language.

    My suggestion:

    QB64 to learn a 'basic' but real BASIC.

    Our suggestion: Python

    What a place to have arrived at.
    Welcome to the real world. You think I'm learning Python because I want to? Don't get me wrong, I think it would be an interesting journey and I look forward to it but the real reason I'm learning Python because I have to. When you choose BASIC as your life, you cannot avoid other languages and environments because the really good stuff comes from outside our world. The world hates BASIC. It's sad but true. We have to be realistic and we cannot limit ourselves to just our world.
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    Copy/move files using Windows Shell | I'm not wanted

    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  29. #29
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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPumper View Post
    All I did was ask a simple question!
    I think you have learnt something. STOP learning VB.NET and learn something else. It seems we all agree on that.

    Even the Microsoft MVP suggests using something else.
    Last edited by yereverluvinuncleber; Dec 13th, 2021 at 07:54 AM.
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

  30. #30
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    I think you have learnt something. STOP learning VB.NET and learn something else. It seems we all agree on that.
    He has already invested by buying books and whatnot. With this fact in mind, he should 100% learn it. There is still a lot of value in learning VB.Net. You can still do so much with it.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  31. #31
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    There is one other valuable thing about learning VB.Net, it serves as a good starting point for C#. Many of the concepts you learn in VB.Net can be applied to C#.

    @Op

    I say go for it. Learn as much as you can about VB.Net. Then at some point in the future, think about transitioning to C#. Experience in VB.Net would make it 1000x easier to pick up C#. That's my advice to you OP.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  32. #32
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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    The OP has learnt a lot and it should be clear to him by now that he may be making a mistake.

    From this stage it will be a pointless discussion that is now, obviously over, evidence produced and agreement obtained. I will now bow out.

    Good luck to you OP. Feel free to show us what you manage to produce in your computing career. If it is still VB.NET I will be surprised.
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

  33. #33
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    I don't agree with the idea of not learning VB.NET. Frankly, I do think one should be familiar with the C# syntax, but with a background in BASIC, VB.NET is the right language. Now, depending on what you want to do, it may be that you won't be able to stay there, but it is still an excellent language to use. My main projects are all written in that. I've tried to branch into C#, but circumstance has always pushed me back (those projects in C# ended up getting cancelled). However, the tools in VB.NET are also the tools in C#. The tools in C# have fairly close analogues in Java (with an utterly annoying difference in capitalization convention). Learning the ins and outs of VB.NET is a fine way to go, since you'll also know all you need to know for C#. Yeah, there are some additional things in C#, but they don't really matter. You won't learn everything in any language, so not knowing everything in C# because you learned VB is no big deal.
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  34. #34
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    Make no mistake. I think VB.Net is a fantasic language. My concern is more about the future. I hear VB.Net getting mentioned less and less while C# is only getting more popular. This is my main reason for suggesting a move to C#.

    It's also no secret that I think C# is a better language than VB.Net but what I have not made clear is that it's not so much better that one should never choose VB.Net over it. VB.Net is still an excellent language in it's own right and should be considered.
    Last edited by Niya; Dec 13th, 2021 at 10:12 AM. Reason: Typos.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  35. #35
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    My start date for VBForums of March 2011 was when I started programming and I started in Visual Basic .NET.

    I was lucky enough to have mentors such as Shaggy, Niya, JMcIlhinney, .paul., and others who taught me generic programming concepts rather than Visual Basic .NET specific solutions.

    My first contract job was integrating a PLC and a Vision System into an existing Visual Basic .NET HMI application and found a pretty good niche in doing that.

    Ultimate, because I was mentored by such smart people, I was easily able to transition to C# as well as web languages like HTML, CSS, and JavaScript (and it's many flavors like jQuery, Angular, etc.). Now I work full-time in a C# MVC back-end and either jQuery or Angular front-end.

    Visual Basic .NET is a perfect starter language in my opinion because I started on it. I don't know if I would've stuck with programming had it not been for the easy to read syntax of Visual Basic and the strong mentoring of generic programming principles by the members of VBForums.

    @MrPump, if you want set of lessons I'd encourage you to visit my website: www.vblessons.com. I'd even encourage you to read the Author's Notes section of the home page because it addresses those coming from a Visual Basic 6 and earlier background.
    Last edited by dday9; Dec 13th, 2021 at 10:26 AM.
    "Code is like humor. When you have to explain it, itís bad." - Cory House
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  36. #36
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    My start date for VBForums of March 2013 was when I started programming and I started in Visual Basic .NET.

    I was lucky enough to have mentors such as Shaggy, Niya, JMcIlhinney, .paul., and others who taught me generic programming concepts rather than Visual Basic .NET specific solutions.

    My first contract job was integrating a PLC and a Vision System into an existing Visual Basic .NET HMI application and found a pretty good niche in doing that.

    Ultimate, because I was mentored by such smart people, I was easily able to transition to C# as well as web languages like HTML, CSS, and JavaScript (and it's many flavors like jQuery, Angular, etc.). Now I work full-time in a C# MVC back-end and either jQuery or Angular front-end.

    Visual Basic .NET is a perfect starter language in my opinion because I started on it. I don't know if I would've stuck with programming had it not been for the easy to read syntax of Visual Basic and the strong mentoring of generic programming principles by the members of VBForums.

    @MrPump, if you want set of lessons I'd encourage you to visit my website: www.vblessons.com. I'd even encourage you to read the Author's Notes section of the home page because it addresses those coming from a Visual Basic 6 and earlier background.
    Yep this is exactly what I mean. You can certainly take the time to become proficient in VB.Net and then transition to where ever you want because you will learn so much important things in VB.Net that can be successfully applied in other languages and frameworks.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

    Copy/move files using Windows Shell | I'm not wanted

    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  37. #37
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    I was thinking that I started on VB, but that's not true. I started with BASIC, but only doing super trivial stuff with it. My first serious coding was in the Quattro Pro macro language. That was an extremely limited language that had to be used like ASM with nearly infinite registers. I used it to write a custom statistical package to perform an analysis that my boss had come up with. It was super painful and super instructive. It took eight hours, or so, to churn through the dataset, at which point you were able to find out whether you had a bug. So, I'd start it running when I left for the day and come back in the morning to work out the bugs, then repeat.

    That language wasn't like any other (except the Lotus 123 macro language), and was so deficient that it really was much more like ASM with a very restricted instruction set. You had math functions, simple conditionals, and move statements. No loop control structures at all, and data types were all quite basic. It was a good foundation.

    Only after that did I move to VB. I rewrote one of those analysis methods in VB and it ran in somewhere around six seconds. Bummer, no more goofing off.

    At the same time, I was learning C/C++ as a hobby, because I wanted to learn a 'real' language. Still, that super restricted macro language was a really good grounding in the basics. If you never write in ASM, that's just fine, but it's instructive to at least read a book on it.
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  38. #38
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    If you never write in ASM, that's just fine, but it's instructive to at least read a book on it.
    I think any semi-serious developer should write assembly code at least once in their life. There is something spiritual about it that I can't quite explain. When you get a piece of assembly code to work for the very first time, you feel the touch of God......Or perhaps I'm just crazy
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

    Copy/move files using Windows Shell | I'm not wanted

    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  39. #39
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    Don't rule out the possibility that both are true.
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  40. #40
    eXtreme Programmer .paul.'s Avatar
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    Re: Learning Visual Basic Net

    Getting your first serious VB program running is a pretty great feeling too. It was not only my first serious program - it was my first program too. I skipped the hello world program

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