The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

[Shaggy Hiker]

Self driving may never be a good idea. Assisted driving is great, but crossing the last little gap to true self driving....well, it's a BIG hurdle. I'm loving the assisted driving features of my car. Dynamic cruise control is the way cruise control always should have been, and I find the lane following to be quite nice, especially since it is understated. What I'm not so sure about is whether I'd be willing to not be paying attention, which is what self driving really means. After all, supervised driving is not self driving, so if you have to pay attention for any reason, it isn't self driving.

[dilettante]

Yeah, there are even more subtle things. Some cars have a "brake hold" feature that can be turned on. Once stopped you can take your foot off the pedal without releasing the brakes, but lots of interlocks to prevent things like holding while in reverse and such.

At some point renting a car may become problematic. Too many little features added that are not (maybe can't?) be standardized. It has been dicey enough for a long time just finding how to turn the headlights on and activate wipers in a pinch while already hurtling down the road. Even cameras and screens to replace adequate window glass and mirrors is hazardous when driving an unfamiliar vehicle.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I was noticing that in a car I rented this summer. It had a lot of features, but I didn't have time to learn all of them. I needed to be able to drive the car, which I managed to do, but there were aspects of it that I knew it had and which I never did figure out. Where are the buttons for this? What does that button do? The one with the picture of a clown, squirted me in the face with seltzer water, which made sense, but so many of them were much more obscure.

[dilettante]

Sure, it sounds comical, but some of these things are pretty critical.

Years ago I was driving a rented car through Arizona. Suddenly it got very dark and rain began pouring down hard and it lasted quite a while. Finding the controls for headlights and wipers and A/C and rear defogger became important all at once. I knew where most of those controls were from prior use, but there was no way to rely on muscle memory while hurtling along in traffic.

I suppose it didn't help that the car was a PT Cruiser notorious for door, window seal, and mystery leaks. It steamed up immediately.


As soon as I could I got off the road. I found a drugstore where I could buy an umbrella, something I hadn't imagined needing in the SW states. Their soil porosity and road drainage must be ridiculous. The parking lot was 6 inches deep in water and the road out front quickly had water over the curbs on both sides and it began to stop traffic in place.

Once the rains slowed and the water receded everything at ground level had some slimy, gritty scum on it. I'm sure this quickly dried though, so at least it didn't become a coating of algae and mold.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Yeah, try driving on 'dirt' roads down there during such a storm. The soil is a form of arid clay. Add water and it becomes a strange combination of glue and grease. I was hiking across the desert in south Idaho when it started raining. Pretty quickly, each boot had many pounds of mud adhered to it, and I was sliding with every step. Within a couple miles, I had strained both knees. I found a rock to sit on while I contemplated my plight. As I sat, the sun came out, and within half an hour, the ground was hard as rock and the walking was easy.

A couple friends of mine went out on a back road to do some hunting. When the rains came, they tried to get back to the pavement, but one of them had to drive while the other walked alongside the truck, pushing it back onto the road with each step, as it was just sliding sideways.

That dirt is some amazing stuff. A total nuisance, of course, but amazing stuff.

[Shaggy Hiker]

As to the driving, the push-button shifting is not nearly as intuitive as the manufacturers think it is. I find that lights and wipers have become pretty standardized. There are two different schools for lights (on the tree or on the dash), but if you know which school made the car, then you're okay. Wipers seem to always be the right side stick.

There is no reason manufacturers won't move away from those things, though, and that will be pretty bad.

[sapator]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/tesla-dri...040000017.html

It's funny that the truck drivers think that getting an electric car protects the environment.
I'm not sure who is the real douchebag here. The truck drivers or the show off tesla jerky jerk.
I'm on 70-30 on the truckers because there is a slight chance that the delusional tesler actually thinks that he is protecting the environment with that large inflammable African death workers on a mountain non recyclable battery with wheels.
Or he can put a "roaaad siren" , so the can will road and tremble simulating a common car.

[dilettante]

Big news for North America no matter what position you take:



If this happens it would seem to create a new economic and social divide. It could be the old "food desert" problem on steroids as the landscape gets partitioned into "us" and "them" along a new dimension.

It isn't simply about EV charging, but building entire worldlets centered on EV charger farms. Significantly at public expense.


Let's assume this is a good thing, maybe a great thing. Can it be scaled to cover a significant fraction of the private vehicle fleet?

[Shaggy Hiker]

Of course it can, and it will. None of us were around at the time when getting fuel for your gas engine was difficult, but at one point it WAS difficult. The country didn't appear out of the sea with a network of gas stations that just needed roads to be built to them. As the demand was there, the supply was developed.

Of course, there's a bit of a chicken and egg thing going on here, but we can't just build everywhere all at once. Also, while this is an aspirational plan, at this point, it would be interesting to see how it plays out. One thing about electricity is that it can be anywhere. If electric charging ends up resembling gas stations, then that would be unfortunate. Fuel stations should be hotels and restaurants, not as destinations of their own.

[dilettante]

This story has been weird over the past few days, Reporting has ranged from "nothing to see here" to "naw, it weren't EVs" to "well only a sixth of the cars are EVs."




Can't wait for the photos from space when the giant fields of thousands of low mileage EVs parked in Chinese dumping grounds blaze up. I had wondered why those crap vehicles had been idled in that manner rather than dismantled for materials. Perhaps there are serious recycling issues?

None of that proves anything but it does play into suspicions. Probably the only solid thing we can take away is that we have some issues to address before we pass the point of no return without better lifecycle planning.

[wes4dbt]

We've been making fuel for cars for more than a 100yrs and we still have refineries going up in flames. So I agree, none of that proves anything. I also agree there is a lot of work that needs to be done on improving recycling.

I'm not sure electric cars are the ultimate answer but I'm convinced doing nothing will be catastrophic.

[dilettante]

But nobody has suggested "doing nothing" as a solution.

There is far more to be gained by discouraging larger and heavier vehicles. They use more materials and fuel no matter what the source, produce more byproducts and wastes and have more recycling impact at end of life, and only exacerbate the damage and human impact in accidents as well as wearing out roads unnecessarily. Add to that discouraging of excessive driving in general.

A lot of positive actions can be taken instead of the current dubious "solution." Actions that don't require endless subsidies and market interventions to promote a "cure" that looks worse than the "disease" day by day.

[wes4dbt]

Ok, smaller lighter cars. Then what?

[techgnome]

Why are gas/electric hybrids not a larger part of the equation? Seems like that would provide the best of both worlds.

[Shaggy Hiker]

This story has been weird over the past few days, Reporting has ranged from "nothing to see here" to "naw, it weren't EVs" to "well only a sixth of the cars are EVs."




Can't wait for the photos from space when the giant fields of thousands of low mileage EVs parked in Chinese dumping grounds blaze up. I had wondered why those crap vehicles had been idled in that manner rather than dismantled for materials. Perhaps there are serious recycling issues?

There ARE serious recycling issues. This is one of the most significant, and I'd say puzzling, issues around EVs (well, actually around Li batteries in general). There's pretty valuable material there, it's readily accessible (in that it doesn't have to be dug from the ground), it's in manageable sized packages, and it's fairly concentrated....and yet recycling is in its infancy by any reasonable measure. This seems like an eminently solvable problem, so why hasn't it been solved? My guess is that, so long as new is cheaper to obtain than recycled, the pressure just isn't there. That's probably also the fundamental reason behind the Chinese junk cars...no, wait, that almost sounds like a joke, and far be it from me to ALMOST make a pun.

Still, it's like memory management in a computer: If it's cheaper to get new than to recover existing, then get new.

[Shaggy Hiker]

But nobody has suggested "doing nothing" as a solution.

There is far more to be gained by discouraging larger and heavier vehicles. They use more materials and fuel no matter what the source, produce more byproducts and wastes and have more recycling impact at end of life, and only exacerbate the damage and human impact in accidents as well as wearing out roads unnecessarily. Add to that discouraging of excessive driving in general.

A lot of positive actions can be taken instead of the current dubious "solution." Actions that don't require endless subsidies and market interventions to promote a "cure" that looks worse than the "disease" day by day.

I like those points. I'd like to see both done, but how do you propose getting the US to end its addiction to 'bigger is better' on the roads? Gas engines have been getting more efficient for decades, but every gain in efficiency has been spent by making larger and more powerful cars. Larger is not the only, and perhaps not even the most significant issue. Engines have also been getting bigger and more powerful. Cars are sold on acceleration and speed, not on efficiency. US automakers have decided that Americans won't pay for efficiency, but will pay for size and power. I don't think they're wrong about that.

The only way I can think of to change the values people use when buying cars is to tax the holy hell out of gas, but since that would require Congress to do something that Congress has no stomach for, it just isn't going to happen. The move to EVs has the advantage that it is possible. And, quite frankly, now that I have driven one....yeah, this will sell like mad in the US market once people realize. I've never cared about power before. Cars have been a means to an end, for me. Therefore, I wanted two factors above all else: Efficiency and reliability. Now, I have the most efficient gas car I've ever owned, it gets very high marks in reliability (perhaps the best), but it also is the most powerful vehicle I've ever driven. That never mattered to me before, but I'm finding that I rather like it. Being able to pass another car at highway speeds without getting a running start...that's new to me.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Why are gas/electric hybrids not a larger part of the equation? Seems like that would provide the best of both worlds.

Ohhhhhh yeah!

One interesting issue I'm running into is that, if all I did was commute, go shopping, and go skiing (which is fairly close by), I'd get a tank of gas roughly once every other year. That's a big problem, as gas turns into varnish in that amount of time. Fuel stabilizers can only do so much.

I was thinking that a variety of levels of gas/electric hybrids would make sense, now I'm not so sure. My car has a nominal 42 miles of electric, though people generally report 50, and I'm usually getting around 50-52. If the nominal electric range were 70 miles or more, I would only use gas a couple times a year, which would be a problem. I'd have to plan biannual trips of sufficient length to be able to replace enough of the gas in the tank to avoid the gas breaking down.

There may be an alternative approach that might make more sense, though I can't say I have looked into it the issues around it. That would be an electric car with a built in natural gas charging system. Natural gas generators are pretty common. My car can be put into generator mode to charge the battery, either while stopped or driving. Would it be possible to have a car that is all electric, but with a gas charger that could recharge while driving, if needed? It seems to me that natural gas doesn't have the stability issues of gasoline, and has a pretty widespread distribution network. These wouldn't be natural gas powered cars, these would be primarily electric with an auxiliary, onboard, charging system for very long drives.

That seems like it might get around the issues with gas.

[dilettante]

Have you had this car long enough to go through a Winter with it yet? Don't come to any final decisions without that experience first. I suspect you'll use a bit more gasoline as the dynamics change.

I worry more about the mass market. Two thirds or more of cars sold are used cars, most of that due to the practical economics of household transportation budgets. How viable and safe is a 3, 5, 7 year old EV after refurbishing? How expensive is refurbishing, thus shortening any second or third "life" even more? What about "repaired" vehicles on the road after minor accidents? Can used EV owners afford to take cars in to dealerships for routine care and feeding? It doesn't sound like 3rd party mechanic or owner repairs and maintenance is even possible.

The doodads are a separate issue though more voluminous in EVs. How many of those automagic driver assisting toys will retain any level of safety over time, assuming they keep working at all?

[dilettante]

Lots of woes now. High markups, financing hard to come by for marginal borrowers, and a glut of inventory:

[wes4dbt]

I like those points. I'd like to see both done, but how do you propose getting the US to end its addiction to 'bigger is better' on the roads? Gas engines have been getting more efficient for decades, but every gain in efficiency has been spent by making larger and more powerful cars. Larger is not the only, and perhaps not even the most significant issue. Engines have also been getting bigger and more powerful. Cars are sold on acceleration and speed, not on efficiency. US automakers have decided that Americans won't pay for efficiency, but will pay for size and power. I don't think they're wrong about that.

The only way I can think of to change the values people use when buying cars is to tax the holy hell out of gas, but since that would require Congress to do something that Congress has no stomach for, it just isn't going to happen. The move to EVs has the advantage that it is possible. And, quite frankly, now that I have driven one....yeah, this will sell like mad in the US market once people realize. I've never cared about power before. Cars have been a means to an end, for me. Therefore, I wanted two factors above all else: Efficiency and reliability. Now, I have the most efficient gas car I've ever owned, it gets very high marks in reliability (perhaps the best), but it also is the most powerful vehicle I've ever driven. That never mattered to me before, but I'm finding that I rather like it. Being able to pass another car at highway speeds without getting a running start...that's new to me.

It's strange, in the late 70's early 80's when we had the gas shortage, there was lines at the pumps, prices soared. People flocked to economy cars. Now seems different, makes me think as long as there's not shortage there wont be much change in our mindset. But make us wait in line or can only get gas on Mondays, Wednesday and Fridays then maybe the focus will shift back to economy. I'm sure there is a price point that could drive us to economy but obviously we haven't hit it yet.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Have you had this car long enough to go through a Winter with it yet? Don't come to any final decisions without that experience first. I suspect you'll use a bit more gasoline as the dynamics change.

It will be hard to figure out, but you'll be right one way or the other. The battery should be less efficient, I drive more miles (cause of skiing after work), and the heater will suck a certain amount of juice.

I worry more about the mass market. Two thirds or more of cars sold are used cars, most of that due to the practical economics of household transportation budgets. How viable and safe is a 3, 5, 7 year old EV after refurbishing? How expensive is refurbishing, thus shortening any second or third "life" even more? What about "repaired" vehicles on the road after minor accidents? Can used EV owners afford to take cars in to dealerships for routine care and feeding? It doesn't sound like 3rd party mechanic or owner repairs and maintenance is even possible.

Battery repair/refurbishing is going to be more expensive, for sure. When you get a used EV, the big question will be, "How much battery life is left?" We don't have enough data to know that.

Of course, we've always had some issues along those lines with used cars, and I'm not sure it will be fundamentally worse. One big cost rather than a bunch of semi-big costs (transmission, engine, etc.). Electric cars are simpler. Plug in hybrids maybe not, but if my battery gets bad...I have a car.

The doodads are a separate issue though more voluminous in EVs. How many of those automagic driver assisting toys will retain any level of safety over time, assuming they keep working at all?

Probably almost all of them. For one thing, we're talking about solid state electronics, and somewhat hardy versions of those. For another, we're talking about a componentized system, something all of us are quite familiar with. Also, one of the likely causes for the acceleration issues of the early 2000s could be solved with redundant systems, or hardening. If either of those were the reason that those acceleration issues have gone away, then the systems may be considerably improved.

Also, that's not an issue peculiar to EVs. Those features are showing up on every new car. You can't get a new car without airbags, it's hard to get a new car without back up cameras, cruise control, and the like, and pretty soon it'll be just as difficult to get a car without assist features. After all, one thing about electronic components is that the costs come down and it becomes reasonable to stuff them into everything. Eventually, it ends up being cheaper to add them than to leave them out. VGA would still work in computers, but it would be mighty hard to find a motherboard that would take the plugs for even the final generation of VGA boards, anymore. The same will happen to cars.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Lots of woes now. High markups, financing hard to come by for marginal borrowers, and a glut of inventory:

What was dropped from manufacturing: All low end vehicles. The average price of a new car soared during the pandemic, not so much because prices were raised on existing cars, but because the bottom line models were simply discontinued. That will clobber marginal borrowers. As always, the market worked against them.

[xiaoyao]

Self driving may never be a good idea. Assisted driving is great, but crossing the last little gap to true self driving....well, it's a BIG hurdle. I'm loving the assisted driving features of my car. Dynamic cruise control is the way cruise control always should have been, and I find the lane following to be quite nice, especially since it is understated. What I'm not so sure about is whether I'd be willing to not be paying attention, which is what self driving really means. After all, supervised driving is not self driving, so if you have to pay attention for any reason, it isn't self driving.

just like chatgpt,Automatic programming, automatic driving, will be replaced sooner or later.A lot of programmers will be out of work.VB6, VB. Net, was also abandoned by Microsoft.

History is constantly developing, we can only go with the tide, we can not confront them.

I've seen a lot of little videos of car accidents these days.
It is because they are distracted or do not pay attention, and then there are many accidents. If they drive carefully every time, more than half of the accidents can be avoided.


If automatic driving develops well, 90% of accidents can be avoided.
But it can also cause a lot of new security problems, if one day a virus invades the car. Or the United States confronts Russia and Ukraine and shuts down their car systems directly. Then, all the cars on the road stopped or, ah, were controlled by hackers. It is also possible that there will be 100 times and 10,000 times more accidents in the world on this day.

[xiaoyao]

In China, new energy vehicles are already like Apple phones. It becomes a disposable product. Buy a car with 300 kilometers and the price is only $10000. But after five years, the cost of replacing the battery may be $8000.

Nowadays, the average life span of smartphones is 2 to 3 years.Once the battery of the mobile phone fails or the running speed slows down, many people choose to abandon it.
Japanese cars, I read the news, they said that after two years, the price is only half, seven years is basically not worth a penny.
Their car maintenance costs $1000 to $2000 a time.
So they all choose to sell it directly, and the estimated recovery price is only about $100.

[xiaoyao]

Have you had this car long enough to go through a Winter with it yet? Don't come to any final decisions without that experience first. I suspect you'll use a bit more gasoline as the dynamics change.

I worry more about the mass market. Two thirds or more of cars sold are used cars, most of that due to the practical economics of household transportation budgets. How viable and safe is a 3, 5, 7 year old EV after refurbishing? How expensive is refurbishing, thus shortening any second or third "life" even more? What about "repaired" vehicles on the road after minor accidents? Can used EV owners afford to take cars in to dealerships for routine care and feeding? It doesn't sound like 3rd party mechanic or owner repairs and maintenance is even possible.

The doodads are a separate issue though more voluminous in EVs. How many of those automagic driver assisting toys will retain any level of safety over time, assuming they keep working at all?

When the weather is cold, the car's range is only about half.If the temperature is minus 20 degrees Celsius in winter, the battery will be scrapped if it is charged about 50 times.
Many new energy vehicles have a range of more than 50,000 kilometers or 100,000 kilometers. There will be a problem with the battery, for example, if the remaining display is 50-80 kilometers, it will stop.

This can be very dangerous if you are on a highway or in a tunnel.It costs a lot of money to buy a car, which is also a loss and will cause more traffic accidents.Therefore, new energy vehicles still have many technical problems and false mileage. The battery cooling system needs to be heated in winter.

In 2017 or so, someone bought a new energy vehicle with a price of about $10,000, and it also costs so much to replace the battery.
So he had no way to find a manufacturer, and he bought the battery himself on the Internet for only $2000. (所以他没办法找生产厂家，他自己在网络上购买电池，价格只需要2000美元。)The same cost can extend the life of the car for more than 10 years.

[xiaoyao]

Ohhhhhh yeah!

One interesting issue I'm running into is that, if all I did was commute, go shopping, and go skiing (which is fairly close by), I'd get a tank of gas roughly once every other year. That's a big problem, as gas turns into varnish in that amount of time. Fuel stabilizers can only do so much.
(However, the current charging system prohibits continuous driving during charging.So if your car runs out of power, you need a backup power source. The standard of the charging system also needs to be changed.)
I was thinking that a variety of levels of gas/electric hybrids would make sense, now I'm not so sure. My car has a nominal 42 miles of electric, though people generally report 50, and I'm usually getting around 50-52. If the nominal electric range were 70 miles or more, I would only use gas a couple times a year, which would be a problem. I'd have to plan biannual trips of sufficient length to be able to replace enough of the gas in the tank to avoid the gas breaking down.

There may be an alternative approach that might make more sense, though I can't say I have looked into it the issues around it. That would be an electric car with a built in natural gas charging system. Natural gas generators are pretty common. My car can be put into generator mode to charge the battery, either while stopped or driving. Would it be possible to have a car that is all electric, but with a gas charger that could recharge while driving, if needed? It seems to me that natural gas doesn't have the stability issues of gasoline, and has a pretty widespread distribution network. These wouldn't be natural gas powered cars, these would be primarily electric with an auxiliary, onboard, charging system for very long drives.

That seems like it might get around the issues with gas.

If you need to travel a long distance, it is really convenient to take a gasoline generator or a natural gas generator. But in China, we don't have a place to refill natural gas. In addition, we also need a temporary backup power supply. If the power of the car is very low, a backup power supply can be plugged into the fast charging port to continue to drive, 30 to 50 kilometers is enough to drive to the charging station or home.

When my car broke down on the way, they chose to tow my car. It takes a lot of time, maybe three to five hours. And driving the car to the taxi and then driving down will also cause a lot of damage to the car.

Our insurance company provides free roadside assistance or drives you to a charging station.

Once he had unloaded the car from the trailer to the charging station, but their process required that the car be driven to a repair shop and photographed before it was valid, so he loaded it back into the trailer, drove it to the repair shop, unloaded it, photographed it, and loaded it back.Drive the car to the trailer and then drive it off. Six times in total. I am very distressed.At that time, the tire blew out. I had a spare tire, and they came to install it for me. It has been installed, because he did not take pictures of the accident, so he removed it, took pictures again, and installed it again. I was very angry.

[xiaoyao]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/tesla-dri...040000017.html

It's funny that the truck drivers think that getting an electric car protects the environment.
I'm not sure who is the real douchebag here. The truck drivers or the show off tesla jerky jerk.
I'm on 70-30 on the truckers because there is a slight chance that the delusional tesler actually thinks that he is protecting the environment with that large inflammable African death workers on a mountain non recyclable battery with wheels.
Or he can put a "roaaad siren" , so the can will road and tremble simulating a common car.

In Beijing, the capital of China, he has banned gasoline trucks from entering the city.So they were forced to buy electric vans. The daily income can reach about $300. If the average person goes to work, his daily income is estimated to be about $50.

The government has added new restrictions, and trucks can only be driven for a specified number of hours a day. So the income is only half.In fact, the most suitable condition for new energy vehicles is to drive short mileage every day. If the goods are often transported with high power, the large current discharge on the highway is very fast. Battery life will be cut in half. So they drive for about three years, and the electric van they buy for $40,000 can only be sold for $6,000.
Only by buying a new van can we have better power. And that maintenance cost is reduce. In fact, it causes more environmental pollution.

[xiaoyao]

We've been making fuel for cars for more than a 100yrs and we still have refineries going up in flames. So I agree, none of that proves anything. I also agree there is a lot of work that needs to be done on improving recycling.

I'm not sure electric cars are the ultimate answer but I'm convinced doing nothing will be catastrophic.

For automobile manufacturers, they don't care whether they can be more environmentally friendly or not.If they produce trams, they can triple their annual income. Why not do it?
If they don't produce, they will be eliminated by the society, and many large automobile manufacturers will go bankrupt.In the past, Nokia mobile phones rejected Android system and finally went bankrupt.

[xiaoyao]

That raised an eyebrow for me. Why would weather affect uptake of EVs?

The best life of lithium battery is 20 ℃. I have seen a lot of new energy vehicles, they have battery cooling system, the basic temperature can be controlled at about 30 degrees.When it is too cold in winter, it can consume electricity and raise the temperature of the battery.
Otherwise, the battery will be completely scrapped after charging 50 times at about minus 20 degrees Celsius.
It can be charged about 1000 to 1500 times at about 20 degrees Celsius.
So new energy vehicles are suitable for places with relatively high temperature, but not too high.
In addition, the battery is a chemical reaction. Just like a person, if you wear very little clothes, you will not be able to work in the cold winter. You can't work at 40 to 50 degrees Celsius in summer.

[xiaoyao]

How Temperature Affects EV Range is an article by an industry source that paints the rosiest picture possible.

Battery charging, charge retention, and lifetime degradation in hot and cold conditions are part of the problem. Another is the impact of climate control power use. Another is high EV vehicle weight vs. power when a car locks into limp home mode when charge falls below 25% or so. Add in snow or water on the roads and things can get worse.

There are also battery and parasitic power drain issues around humidity levels.

Not to mention the impact of being left stranded in various climate conditions that aren't even considered extreme. This gets serious because the probability of EV stranding rises in non-ideal climates.

Things might be even worse in "milder" climates. An unexpected turn of weather may make things even harder on drivers unaccustomed to the rigors of a temperate climate.

Once my car's mileage was getting shorter and shorter. Several times, it broke down on the road with a remaining range of 50 to 80 kilometers.
Recently replaced a battery. Because the battery is broken, it will cause leakage and other phenomena. It's completely normal now, but I don't know how long the overall life span is.

My car has a range of 305 kilometers. It consists of 88 lithium batteries.Because it is connected in series, if one battery is damaged, the car may break down on the way.Sometimes the control system will shut down even if the temperature is abnormal. So this is a terrible thing.So qualified batteries need at least two sets of batteries. In this way, once a set of battery problems occur, your range will change from 200 kilometers to 100 kilometers. Instead of going directly from 200 to 0 kilometers.

So Tesla is very good at this.Many of the cheaper new energy vehicles in China do not have battery cooling systems. Once the display speed is too fast or the charging current is too large, it is easy to cause battery damage. Or slow charging. It will also break down halfway in the course of driving.
This is because the state has not raised this condition, and the industry standards are not strict enough.

[xiaoyao]

Maybe you missed the part where a lot of those dumped cars had like 30 miles on the odometers and are about 2 years old.

In China, the average mileage of many people's cars in five years may be less than 30000 kilometers.Some new energy vehicles have been driven for one or two years, driving thousands of kilometers in total, and then sold at half price.

In addition, when selling a car, his mileage can also be modified destructively. This is also a terrible thing.Unless the manufacturer publicly inquires about that website. We can enter the engine number of the car to find out how many kilometers the car has driven?For traditional oil vehicles, because they are not connected to the Internet, there is no way to query.

But for new energy vehicles. Most of them provide networking functions. Many cars have free Internet access for life after purchase, with two GB of traffic per month.

[xiaoyao]

Yeah, it's a really big market, but it's also kind of a weird market. The cars you seem to favor appear to be based on factors I don't understand. I'd sure like to see cheaper electric vehicles in the US, and we are slowly moving that way, but we'll never get to the prices you are talking about.

When looking at the increase in vehicle costs, you can't just look at the price tag. You also have to consider the features. Cars in the US that were sold in the 90s have a LOT fewer features than cars sold today. It's possible to build a cheap car in the US, but not if you also want to have backup cameras, a dozen air bags, blind spot sensors, lane following sensors, tire pressure sensors, sleepiness sensors, and an onboard movie system. So much is being put into cars, these days, that the price is going to be pretty high just for that reason.

Just like China will produce the biggest selling $300 smartphone. The speed is the same as the latest model of the iPhone. But the price of the iPhone is about $1000.
It is completely impossible to produce the latest $300 mobile phone in the United States.

Therefore, Chinese manufacturing still has advantages in many aspects, and the cost is relatively low. But at present, labor costs have also increased, and materials have also risen. Mobile phones have also risen from $300 to $700.

The price of new energy vehicles has also risen from $7000 to $10000 to $15000. The mainstream range is about 400 to 500 kilometers.The price of 300 kilometers is relatively cheap, and many people buy it.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Japanese cars, I read the news, they said that after two years, the price is only half, seven years is basically not worth a penny.
Their car maintenance costs $1000 to $2000 a time.
So they all choose to sell it directly, and the estimated recovery price is only about $100.

The news you read is pretty dubious if THAT's the quality of what it says.

[xiaoyao]

Xiaopeng car Stock.three times in two months, and $30 rose to $96. \n It is so difficult to engage in the real industry, and it is easy to make money by engaging in these PPT industries. No money in developing VB6 IDE
Attachment 188425

Weilai Electric Vehicle, a car company that can replace the whole battery pack, has also increased by about 1.5 times.

[xiaoyao]

https://graykandianshare.html5.qq.co...oHeight%3D1280

An Ulai car in Yiwu, China exploded like a firebomb. It was terrible.

Because this is a ternary lithium battery so the capacity fire. New energy vehicles using lithium iron phosphate are safer.
Just like the SPACE rocket, the innovation of science and technology is sure to explode during the testing of new products.
There are always solutions, and sometimes large accidents will allow manufacturers to make more improvements to make new energy vehicles safer.

Nio uses battery replacement, and a battery may be installed in a different car every month. Some people may have an accident, and some people may have an impact that will leave a hidden danger.
Some people may often open at high speed very fast, this battery loss will be greater, but also more prone to spontaneous combustion and other situations.
Tesla cars often have accidents such as failure to brake.

In China, the main reason is that gasoline prices are too high, and electricity bills have not risen in almost 15 years, so new energy vehicles have an advantage over other countries.
And the population of large cities is increasing, based on environmental protection requirements, oil vehicles are banned on the road to encourage the purchase of new energy vehicles.

[dilettante]

This guy is a little weird, and highly biased to the point where it feels like he may be funded by EV interests. He blames the woes on plug-in hybrids, insisting that EVs are cuddly unicorns.



I guess he just prefers coal-fired grid-tethered vehicles to those that burn petroleum products.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Can't say I've ever heard of BYD. Sounds to me like they got their gas tanks from old Pintos.

Still, I don't see your negativity here. Car companies create models that have flaws. The Pinto was a joke, but it was the only model that had that particular issue. Similarly, it sounds like one model of BYD has a design flaw. Sounds like some models of BYD don't have that design flaw, though it also sounds like they have some quality control issues across the whole lineup. Nothing all that surprising about that. It's been happening as long as there have been car companies.

[xiaoyao]

Can't say I've ever heard of BYD. Sounds to me like they got their gas tanks from old Pintos.

Still, I don't see your negativity here. Car companies create models that have flaws. The Pinto was a joke, but it was the only model that had that particular issue. Similarly, it sounds like one model of BYD has a design flaw. Sounds like some models of BYD don't have that design flaw, though it also sounds like they have some quality control issues across the whole lineup. Nothing all that surprising about that. It's been happening as long as there have been car companies.

The world is changing, like maybe no one knows Huawei mobile phone, but if it is not blocked by technology, maybe the world's mobile phone ranking is: Apple mobile phone, Huawei mobile phone, Samsung mobile phone.
The old Nokia phones also went out of business.

In the new energy automobile industry, Tesla and BYD are manufacturers that cannot be ignored.

Ranking brand sales
June 2023
Byd 231,230

Faw-volkswagen 178,642

Changan Automobile 118,057

Geely cars 115,270

Saic Volkswagen 98,833

Gac Toyota 86,354

Saic GM 79,521

Tesla cars 74,212

Faw Toyota 70795

[Shaggy Hiker]

They can be in the US. Due to the different standards in different countries (or coherent groups, like the EU), the models available in China aren't available in the US. Some models available in the EU aren't found in the US, either. Toyota sells pretty much everywhere, but it doesn't appear that they manufacture the same models for all different markets. Kia seems to be at least similar.

[dilettante]

Good news. Future EVs may be less likely to kill you!



These CCP shills are getting funnier as they trip over their tongues.