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Thread: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

  1. #41
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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Sounds like a very under-engineered product. Does it use the same sort of "tinsel-wire, thin copper sputtering over a ribbon of aluminum" we see in so many low-end Chinese consumer products like USB cables?

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Gasoline prices in Canada's Greater Toronto area hit a record high, with the lowest grade of 87 gasoline rising to 1.469 Canadian dollars per liter (about 7.64 yuan per liter).1.19$
    The oil price in Japan has risen to 1.43$,
    Oil prices in India hit $1.50,They say you can only drive twice a week.
    The price of oil in China reached $1.135.
    Last edited by xiaoyao; Oct 17th, 2021 at 08:13 PM.

  3. #43

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Sounds like a very under-engineered product. Does it use the same sort of "tinsel-wire, thin copper sputtering over a ribbon of aluminum" we see in so many low-end Chinese consumer products like USB cables?
    Although Apple’s mobile phone costs 1,000-2,000 US dollars, 30% of people use 200-300 US dollars smart phones are enough

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaoyao View Post
    Although Apple’s mobile phone costs 1,000-2,000 US dollars, 30% of people use 200-300 US dollars smart phones are enough
    That's not the same thing. Apple has always cost more, it has not always been better. Paying less than Apple prices for a phone doesn't mean you're getting less of a phone.
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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Until 2013, the situation has turned, when the Middle East is tense, the international oil prices rose, and Russia who will sell oil and gas resources is improved in the economic situation. The long-term sluggish Russian navy is also renovated by this opportunity.The ship is enriched with its strength.In this round of repair old wars, the sister ship of the "Razza Navy will" "Naximov Navy" is fortunate to be dragged into the ship factory by the Russian army, carry out more thorough renovation.
    The "La Zalev Navy" is still disposed until 2019, the Russian defense department completely abandon the ship and seeks to destroy it.The large ship full of 26,000 tons was abandoned. Many emotions would like to feel sorry, and from the perspective of reality, the scrapped of the "La Zalev Navy" is actually a necessity.

    It seems that Russia's economic crisis is also very serious.
    We got a display of missile frigates in Hengdian Film and Television City, Dongyang, Jinhua, Zhejiang, China.It was disassembled into many pieces and used more than 100 trucks. Now it's a tourist visit.

    Russia has not been an economic power since ancient times. They have never relied on the economy to rule the roost, especially facing the strangulation of the entire Western world and the continued economic difficulties.

    Natural resource exports accounted for 65.7% of total exports. This proportion is directly behind Saudi Arabia and the structure is extremely unbalanced.

    Once the price of bulk resources fluctuates, it will affect Russia’s economic conditions, typically like the 2008 economic crisis that caused oil prices to plummet, and GDP collapsed instantly.

    Russia should have made a lot of money this time the price of oil has risen sharply.

    In the past five years, Russia’s average growth rate was 0.8%. Russia is a middle-income country with a per capita value of US$10,000. This growth rate cannot even outperform deflationary Japan.

    The average American is nearly 70,000 U.S. dollars, with an average growth rate of 2.4%. In contrast, the Russian economy has almost no future.
    Last edited by xiaoyao; Oct 22nd, 2021 at 06:28 AM.

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    The remaining capacity of the ternary lithium battery is 66% after 3900 cycles, and the remaining capacity of the lithium iron phosphate battery is 84% after 5000 cycles. The cycle life is more obvious than that of the ternary material lithium battery and the lithium iron phosphate battery.

    Take a mainstream model with a 50-degree battery as an example. If you use lithium iron phosphate, the cost is 30,000 yuan, and if you use a ternary lithium battery, the cost is between 50,000 and 60,000 yuan. The difference in BOM cost between 20,000 and 30,000 is a sky-high price for OEMs

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    I've had my eye on one of these for a couple of years now:

    KTM Freeride E-XC

    I like the idea of no engine noise since I often ride in areas where I may not be entirely welcome. But the US$10K+ price tag means I'll be sticking with my '08 WR250 for the foreseeable future.
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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Electric bicycles are mainly unsafe, and people easily break their hands and feet.

    Yesterday, I checked a lot of data (research on low-temperature performance and discharge capacity prediction of lithium iron phosphate batteries), and found that when the temperature is -20 degrees Celsius, the battery is basically scrapped after 100 times of charging and discharging. Therefore, it is only suitable for use in cities with higher temperatures. Charging/discharging can not be performed under low temperature, otherwise the battery capacity will drop rapidly and the loss cannot be recovered.

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    After entering October, power outages in the northern states of India lasted as long as 14 hours a day. In the first week of October, India’s electricity shortfall was equivalent to 11.2% of the total annual shortfall, more than 21 times that of the same period last year. Coal power generation accounts for more than 75% of India's power structure. The latest data from the Central Electricity Authority of India shows that 115 of the 135 major coal-fired power plants in India have coal inventories in crisis. More than half of the power plants’ coal inventories can be used for less than two days, and 16 of them have even been out of supply.

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Ding Yifan, a researcher at the World Development Research Institute of the Development Research Center of the State Council of China: India’s population structure is very problematic, hierarchical and racial; second, India’s education level is much lower; the land structure creates many contradictions for India’s industrialization; in addition, there is no With enough roads and railways, and without enough communications, India has many difficulties in developing its manufacturing industry.

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    According to China New Energy Automotive Industry Development Plan (2021-12035): By 2025, my country's new energy car new car sales reached about 20% of the total sales of automobile new cars.
    It may even be a policy settlement that it is only a year in September, in September 2021, in September 2021, the proportion of sales in China has completed the 2025 planning goals in advance.
    It is also no wonder that even the US President said acidic: China's new energy car is the world's first, and the United States can only rank eighth.

    BYD produced 90% of its electric vehicles in October. Production of conventional gasoline vehicles is only 10 percent

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Now the price of cars with lithium batteries has risen by $2000.

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Whew.


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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    The problem with that article is that the same can be said for pretty nearly all technology. When you look at current automobiles, there are also some pretty rare metals that are used for things that could have the same charge leveled against them.

    However, the article isn't really about electric cars, it's about the inhumane conditions of mining in one country that supplies a lot of the current cobalt. It's not vibranium, though, there are other sources. This problem can be solved. Whether it will be, is a different matter.
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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    The problem appears to be that we cannot shift from moving large amounts of metal around at high speeds.

    In the UK it is practical to cycle as the roads, pre-50s were designed for slow moving and smaller types of traffic. We need to wean ourselves from pushing five seats, air con. four heavy tyres, all that bodywork just to shift one person's arse a few miles.

    I sold my main car and I now cycle on two of these:





    They are same design, customised. Empire designed and built (Australia), OK, Chinese parts. they are capable of 25mph even with the UK's strict electric motor capacities. Hills disappear and cycling becomes easy. If you buy a good bike, then they are fun to own. Together they were the price of a secondhand BMW with 100,000 miles on the clock. They cost 12p to charge to full capacity. I can cycle 35 miles with assistance and if I run out of juice I still have my legs as the only thing it has to move is ME.

    OK, the other one has to move my wife too so a little more of a struggle.
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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    I sold my main car and I now cycle on two of these:
    At once?

    OK, the other one has to move my wife too so a little more of a struggle.
    Well, it's been nice knowing you.

    Still, it's a good idea, and one that I've contemplated. The problem in the US is largely due to the roads not being ideal. I've biked to the office, which is about 60 miles round trip, though pretty flat. However, the traffic has gotten heavier, and the route isn't exactly great. There are some stretches where there are no, or poor, bike lanes with lots of traffic. Oddly, it was never an issue in the morning, but often an issue in the evening. I eventually quit doing that bike commute, as I felt that I'd eventually end up becoming roadkill. It was also about 4 hours a day of commuting, which was rough. I'd get home and just fall asleep. If the route was better, I'd do more of that.
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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Road use has to change to incorporate bikers on electric devices, a small sectioned road/metalled path either side of main roads, thirty or so yards distant would not be so difficult to achieve on motorways and the like. We also have to adjust to living nearer to work than we used to. In the UK we often have a lot of alternate routes to anywhere and the roads are more suitable for bikes, still though it will take some serious govt legislation to give bikes more priority as serious road users. That means separate lanes for bikes.
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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle



    You can also park one in your lounge.
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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    Road use has to change to incorporate bikers on electric devices, a small sectioned road/metalled path either side of main roads, thirty or so yards distant would not be so difficult to achieve on motorways and the like. We also have to adjust to living nearer to work than we used to. In the UK we often have a lot of alternate routes to anywhere and the roads are more suitable for bikes, still though it will take some serious govt legislation to give bikes more priority as serious road users. That means separate lanes for bikes.
    Totally agree.
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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    I'm not convinced that extreme measures can be effective because they just won't be taken.

    It is hard enough to get people to move back to appropriately-sized vehicles instead of monster trucks. Or to get them to stop letting them sit and run idling wastefully. Or to get them to plan vehicle usage just a little bit instead of making large numbers of separate trips in a day.

    So that's a tough enough change that would make a difference if embraced. But you want them to go post-apocalyptic/bohemian, and that just isn't going to happen without some drastic event forcing such change.


    Locally we've had a lot of roads re-marked to eliminate vehicle lanes and add wide bike lanes. Accident rates have tripled along these gentrified corridors. We also have new taxpayer-provided smooth paved trails completely separate from vehicle roads. These of course only run between a few shopping areas, schools, and new walled subdivisions. Guess it's sweet to be among the elite. These also have a constant tension between those who try to walk there, bike there, and ride electric cycles there.

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    However, the article isn't really about electric cars, ...
    Actually the article is all about electric cars as a driver of cobalt demand.

    Scale makes a huge difference, and then add in the pressure to try to turn a sow's ear into an economically practical product by forcing materials costs down through labor exploitation. Each mile of range in an electric car drives the size of the battery pack higher.

    Despite constant media tub thumping year after year promoting an imaginary rosy future electric cars are still the province of the 1% and even then most of these are second (or third, or fourth) cars purchased as vanity statements. Supporting power grid upgrades are basically non-existent.

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    It is hard enough to get people to move back to appropriately-sized vehicles instead of monster trucks.
    Well, price of fuel will do that for them. If choice isn't an option then necessity will force the change. Americans are slow to change when it comes to massive vehicles and their associated increased fuel consumption. We do tend to laugh at the remaining size of some US trucks still bought and driven about (often carrying one single fat chap with tattoos and nothing else).

    In the UK, the original roads are not solely designed for driven vehicles and were/are instead shared conduits for all forms of traffic including people. Their is no jay walking law here except on the motorways that are designed exclusively for cars &c. The concept of road-sharing is more ingrained and the recent change in the law is a step in the right direction giving humans priority.

    https://www.which.co.uk/news/2022/01...the-new-rules/

    It can be done and needs must. Lanes are one thing but forcing cars to slow down and separate their use of the tarmac is vital. Also forcing cultural change away from claiming one's own selfish rights to "simple consideration of others" is an important step.
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  23. #63
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Actually the article is all about electric cars as a driver of cobalt demand.

    Scale makes a huge difference, and then add in the pressure to try to turn a sow's ear into an economically practical product by forcing materials costs down through labor exploitation. Each mile of range in an electric car drives the size of the battery pack higher.

    Despite constant media tub thumping year after year promoting an imaginary rosy future electric cars are still the province of the 1% and even then most of these are second (or third, or fourth) cars purchased as vanity statements. Supporting power grid upgrades are basically non-existent.
    There isn't a line in that which is true. I work with a bunch of fish biologists. We certainly are NOT the 1%. We aren't the top 30%, and yet I have a couple colleagues with electric cars and also plugin hybrids. I was looking at both in the last month, but concluded that the supply chain is too much of a mess, still. If things get sorted, I'll be making some move this fall (off walking much of the summer).

    The article mentioned electric cars, showed that cobalt is found all around the world, and stated (probably correctly) that the majority is currently coming from one African country. That was all covered in the first minute or two. The rest of the article was about the working conditions in that one country, which were deplorable. That conflated electric cars, demand for cobalt, and the deplorable working conditions in one country. You find those working conditions in a bunch of countries, for a bunch of different metals (look at the conditions in the deep gold mines), but THIS particular handwaving was trying to tar electric cars.

    Cobalt is used in the batteries. Those batteries are in electric cars, but not JUST in electric cars. Bad mining practices exist for cobalt, but not JUST for cobalt. So, what was the point of the article? If the goal was just to try to bring pressure on the bad mining practices in that one country, that's great. If the point was to say, "electric cars are bad because of this", then it's VERY disingenuous.

    But it's still not the 1%. If there was a plugin hybrid on the market now that had quite the blend I wanted, I'd already have been to the dealership, despite the supply chain issues and my rather absent schedule in the next few months. I'm not the only one making that choice in the middle incomes.
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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    I'd love to bike to work. I used to do that in a prior life... I'd drive part way, then bike the last 10 miles. But here where i'm at now ... impossible. First it's 40 miles away, and secondly (and probably more importaintly) there's a river in the way with no way to get over it on a bike - yes there's a bridge, but it's so large and steep (container ships pass underneath) that biking it is impossible, even if there were a bike lane, there's so much traffic (it's a major highway) that it would be too dangerous to do it.

    I could move closer to where I work to make it viable, but the office is in an up and coming area that prices are insane (that's part of the reason we bought where we did).

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    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    Well, price of fuel will do that for them. If choice isn't an option then necessity will force the change. Americans are slow to change when it comes to massive vehicles and their associated increased fuel consumption. We do tend to laugh at the remaining size of some US trucks still bought and driven about (often carrying one single fat chap with tattoos and nothing else).
    Your ability to overgeneralize never ceases to amaze me.

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    In the UK, the original roads are not solely designed for driven vehicles and were/are instead shared conduits for all forms of traffic including people. Their is no jay walking law here except on the motorways that are designed exclusively for cars &c. The concept of road-sharing is more ingrained and the recent change in the law is a step in the right direction giving humans priority.
    I will agree that the vast majority of the US design roads with drivers in mind, but this mostly has to do with geography.

    I watched a video one time about a guy from the UK who knew nothing about US geography, so I'm going to take your approach and just assume that nobody from the UK knows anything about US geography. The US is just over 3.5 million square miles. Just to give you an idea, there are 11 states larger than the UK.

    What this amounts to is a ton of open space which is why the majority of the roads in the US are designed with drivers in mind. To give you an idea, my compute to New Orleans the speed limit is 55 - 70 MPH most of the way. This is because I basically live in the swamp. However, when I get off of the interstate system and into the city there is a tremendous shift in mentality that I have to take because all of a sudden there are bike lanes, trolleys, and pedestrians, each of which have their own hierarchical "right of way" based on the situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    Also forcing cultural change away from claiming one's own selfish rights to "simple consideration of others" is an important step.
    I'm not sure about in the UK, but "a simple consideration of others" is a way of life driving in the south. That isn't to say that being a considerate driver only has upsides and no downsides. I can tell you from my time working in insurance, I have seen this first hand where a driver will stop at a cross section where traffic flows freely both ways, waves for someone to come out of the side street, only for that person to get hit by traffic flowing in the opposite direction. The person who waved them on was certainly be considerate by stopping the traffic behind him and allowing the person out from the side street, but he will still be found negligent for waving the person on.
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  26. #66
    PowerPoster yereverluvinuncleber's Avatar
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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    Your ability to overgeneralize never ceases to amaze me.
    Generalisations based upon observations - they often tend to be true or have an element of truth in them. It is all about the quality of the perception. In truth, if we ever watch a video of average Americans in and their cars - they are almost always:

    1. Large cars
    2. What we would call fat people.

    In fact a slim American seems to be the abberation these days and normal unless you come from the West Coast. Perhaps the video evidence I am watching is being manipulated by North Korea. I doubt you are all fat but my generalisation feels good with some decent supporting evidence, so I'll stick with it. Tattoos hmmm. Let's not go there.

    When I went to Atlanta (perhaps not a representative slice of the whole USA) I saw the same. In fact I was stunned by how large a lot of your cars are in comparison to home here - and the sheer numbers of the large things, these SUVs... It seems that part of the world was designed for the car. There were also an awful LOT of fat people eating. It surprised me and it didn't at the same time having seen the videos beforehand.

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    ...the vast majority of the US design roads with drivers in mind, but this mostly has to do with geography.
    ...
    What this amounts to is a ton of open space which is why the majority of the roads in the US are designed with drivers in mind.
    That's a given and even an elementary knowledge of Geography supplies you with that understanding, the chap in the video you watched might have been a typical British moron.

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    I'm not sure about in the UK, but "a simple consideration of others" is a way of life driving in the south.
    That appreciation of the South's politeness is also a given and well known here, at least in my neck of woods but my actual point was that it needs to be a mindset that applies everywhere for alternatives to work for a nation, can't just be one portion of a polite part of the country that takes it on. That next mindset jump comes from a realisation that these big vehicles are a fundamental mistake, that smaller vehicles are more sensible but that you/we need to take consideration of others into account when you have mixed road use. No finger pointing at the US, it has to re-emerge here too. We once had it and you once had it. See those old time videos of New York with the streets full of carts, trams, people, horses and motor vehicles. The balance needs to be restored somewhere back to where it was.

    You mentioned the sheer size of the US - that is in part an advantage. It is easier to add lanes, paths alongside existing roads when you have the space. Duplication of an existing route via a lane built for other traffic need not be to the same quality nor cost as the main route. In any case Mass transit is a far better solution for inter city travel. Once again, one of those aspects of travel that has been largely lost, I understand you tend not to use trains unless you are city dwellers.
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  27. #67
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    The large cars part is correct.

    There was an economist who gave a talk I heard about how we shouldn't keep raising the fuel efficiency standards in the US. His basic argument was that it wouldn't work because it was based on the idea that car companies had a means to keep meeting higher fuel efficiency standards...and those cars don't exist, so he thought they couldn't be made.

    He made one simple mistake: The cars in the markets are not based on what CAN be made, but what can be sold in sufficient quantities to justify setting up the supply chains to make them. The car companies would be happy to make whatever will sell, but the supply chains going into vehicles are sufficiently complicated that if there aren't enough sales, the added costs of the supply chain would make the cars expensive. In other words: You have to sell large numbers, because small run cars would be too expensive for most manufacturers.

    Therefore, what we see in the US market (and probably all others, as well, though they are different) is not based on what can be made, but what can be sold in large quantities. The US companies have estimated that US people will favor size and power over efficiency, and they are probably right. For that reason, almost all that you can buy in the US is large, and any gain in efficiency generally goes towards either moving more mass down the road, or moving it faster.

    That's why fuel efficiency standards do make sense, but also why higher gas prices will shape the US market. We COULD get more efficient vehicles, and if we did, then car manufacturers would make increasingly more efficient vehicles. As long as we aren't buying them, they won't build them.
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  28. #68
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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    I always feel the American car companies have been designing and building both cars and themselves into future obsolescence. Ford is one of those that has the global presence and the intelligence to build "world cars". Their latest and recent designs are definitely taking (have been taking) their cues from European design influences. Ford has always been big in Europe and it is good to see the more practical sized cars finding their way into US markets and not just as niche designs. The Japanese have always been good at adapting and building "world cars" or cars for the whole world, their country not being huge in dimension (except for up) so it makes appropriately sized cars.

    Over here we barely see any American cars, Fords of course - the European designs from GM, we really think of a Vauxhall/Opel as they are designed in Europe. Cars on this side of the pond are growing in size as American designs downsize. I suppose a world car has to meet the standards of that world, both big and small.

    Tesla marks a high point for American automotive manufacturing as viewed from over here (I don't necessarily agree) and perhaps E.Musk maybe its saviour.

    Money drives things and events to a conclusion and if the cars are too heavy and expensive to push all that metal around they will change.

    What we call all those 50s-70s "Yank-Tanks" (or boats). They are dinosaurs and they have disappeared. I once saw a race at Castle Combe race track (back in the 90s) where a massively souped-up Yanktank attempted to race a mixed bag of 1100cc minis, Austin Healey Sprites, and MG midgets. Despite a 350 + horsepower advantage it could barely take a single bend without almost rolling off the track. A dinosaur was slaughtered by the insects.
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  29. #69
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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    That's why fuel efficiency standards do make sense, but also why higher gas prices will shape the US market. We COULD get more efficient vehicles, and if we did, then car manufacturers would make increasingly more efficient vehicles. As long as we aren't buying them, they won't build them.
    That's correct. All you have to do is look back at the gas shortages of @ 1979 - 80. When there were lines at the gas pumps and the price shot up to $1.00gal. I swore I'd would pay a dollar a gallon but I ate those word pretty quickly when my tank was empty.

    But the point is car manufactures started producing economy cars and the people were buying them up. Then the shortage was over, prices started seeming more reasonable and the car market shifted back to larger vehicles. Also, I don't believe for a second that if the the price of gas in the UK had been equally as cheap that they would be so fuel economy minded. People are people, and for most of us, price is a major factor in our decision making.

    If the gas prices stay high, we will see another shift.

  30. #70
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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Imagine a fast food chain that removed the grease/sugar/salt "sauces" and only offered fresh vegetables on sandwiches such as burgers. They could de-emphasize or remove fries/chips and offer cajun-spiced cauliflower "rice", peas and carrots, sweet corn and pimentos, etc. dished up into small bowls with a dab of lemon butter. Maybe add naturally fermented pickles as a side dish (cucumber slices, carrots, cauliflower, cherry peppers) option. Radically downsize sugary beverages. Put some fresh fruit on the menu.

    Basically cut the fats, carbs, and salt by major menu tweaks.

    This would be a positive nutrition step, but they'd fail miserably. The competition would dust everything with cocaine if they thought they could get away with it.

  31. #71
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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    And when it comes to cars in the US, they can....though only DeLorean tried it explicitly.
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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Well my point is that the market won't easily sustain what might be "better" options.

    There is also a long way to go before electric cars are truly practical. One hassle is battery life, and things like fast chargers only diminish that. That means more waste and more materials exploitation. Add in winter months, lack of grid capacity, and on and on.

    I don't oppose the idea, but I do think hybrid gas-electric vehicles are a better initial step for most people. I had one myself for 16 years and I'd choose another with similar characteristics. Battery life is still an issue, but there is less of it to replace and the replacement costs are that much lower. Full-electric is more of an urban option. I had looked at CNG at one time, but now there are ever fewer places to refuel them than a decade ago.

    If the issue is the environmental impact of producing and burning traditional fuels, I agree. But a lot could be done by deprogramming people away from the lust for those monster trucks in favor of smaller and more efficient gasoline and hybrid cars. This isn't Europe where they pack a tent, supplies, and survival gear for any trip over 50 miles.

  33. #73
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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    For families, an electric car makes a good second vehicle option. For a single guy, I agree that it's not quite there, yet. Of course, I biked a thousand miles last year, so waiting around for an hour to charge my car wouldn't be a huge burden. However, there are lots of places in Idaho where you really can't go with an electric car. You can't get there and back on a single charge, and there's nowhere to charge the car once you get there.

    The people I know who have electric cars, have them as commuter vehicles, with something else for other types of trips.

    Funny that you mention packing all that for trips. I learned the hard way to do so when crossing the Blue Mountains of Oregon from Thanksgiving till spring (the interstate got closed a couple days ago, due to snow). My alternator went out in a storm, and I spent several hours sitting in the car. Fortunately, I had a wetsuit, so as soon as the engine died, I pulled off my clothes, pulled on the wetsuit, and put my clothes back on over it. The police would stop and see if I was okay, but every tow truck ended up pulling another car off the mountain, as there were wrecks all over the place. They never asked why I was doing fine, so I never had to mention that I was wearing 5mm of neoprene under my clothes.
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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Sounds claustrophobic, but I'm old now and never spent time in wetsuits when young so that's just me. Not sure what somebody might wonder though, some sort of fetishism?

    For about 10 years I was making a long trip several times a year. I had a kid going to school there, and I had taken to dropping by to check up, drop stuff off, pick stuff up while he was staying in the dorm. I expanded that to look at real estate he might live in instead, thinking about possibly retiring there myself after he graduated since the area has its charms. Or at least it did until the 2008 economic meltdown which over a few years really took a toll on small remote towns. Good luck finding charging stations there today!

    The hybrid was great for that, one 13 gallon tank easily coping with 500 miles leaving range to spare. Gas up once for the trip back. The system in this car was designed to "limp" on the gas motor only if the hybrid system failed. A little more secure for long trips out in the sticks than the "Oops, you are dead by the side of the road, play again soon" system used by Toyota. It also had more power and better mileage in highway driving.

    I was disappointed to lose it after a night time deer collision. Sadly there was no direct replacement then so I fell back on a conventional vehicle. Being retired now and then add in COVID... I don't put a lot of miles on a car now anyway.

    From my point of view technology has actually regressed in some ways.

    Something I learned the hard way from COVID Times though is that cars don't like to sit, especially when the mercury hovers near 0F for days on end. Tires can get unhappy, batteries discharge, and the risk of critters taking up residence increase. So an electric daily driver "cart" and a second real car can mean some diminishment in returns. Add in the cost to keep 2 cars insured and places to park them... the practicality starts getting thin. Crime is getting nasty too, so unless you can keep the real car garaged you might come home to find its gas tank drilled and drained, catalytic converter gone, etc.
    Last edited by dilettante; Apr 16th, 2022 at 03:49 AM.

  35. #75
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Sounds claustrophobic, but I'm old now and never spent time in wetsuits when young so that's just me. Not sure what somebody might wonder though, some sort of fetishism?
    Yeah, that's why I never explained why I wasn't getting cold. You're right, though, wetsuits are fairly constricting. I wouldn't want to do anything other than sit or swim in one, but it was better than freezing. I was going from a reasonably warm place to another reasonably warm place, and didn't have winter clothes with me, so the wetsuit was crucial.
    For about 10 years I was making a long trip several times a year. I had a kid going to school there, and I had taken to dropping by to check up, drop stuff off, pick stuff up while he was staying in the dorm. I expanded that to look at real estate he might live in instead, thinking about possibly retiring there myself after he graduated since the area has its charms. Or at least it did until the 2008 economic meltdown which over a few years really took a toll on small remote towns. Good luck finding charging stations there today!
    I assume there's an app for that. You're mostly right, though, and totally right if you leave out 'resort towns'. You can find charging stations in some very small towns...so long as those towns primarily cater to recreational endeavors. I was surprised to find a bunch of charging stations in Silverton, CO, but I shouldn't have been. That town is built around tourism.




    From my point of view technology has actually regressed in some ways.
    Yeah, I agree. It seems to be slowly swinging back in the right direction, but I feel there was a general decline for the entire 2000s into the low teens.
    Something I learned the hard way from COVID Times though is that cars don't like to sit, especially when the mercury hovers near 0F for days on end. Tires can get unhappy, batteries discharge, and the risk of critters taking up residence increase. So an electric daily driver "cart" and a second real car can mean some diminishment in returns. Add in the cost to keep 2 cars insured and places to park them.
    That's why I haven't done so. I need one car, and need it to fill multiple roles, because two cars just isn't practical. Crime isn't an issue around here, but all the other reasons you listed are the reasons I didn't want to deal with a second car...except for critters. That issue isn't so bad, here. Down in New Mexico, you have to keep your hood raised or packrats will eat the wiring. In the Everglades, there was a time pretty recently, which may still be going on, where you need to cover your car with a tarp, even for a short stay, because various large birds are eating the windshield wipers and the molding that holds the windshield in place. I have never heard WHY they are doing that, but a friend of mine sent me a video about it.
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  36. #76
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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    We had a rash of news stories 2 years back about rodents nesting under hoods and gnawing wires. I fell for it and bought a spray bottle of a slightly sticky mint-oil substance meant to repel them.

    However I never saw any evidence of this, so I never even bothered to test it to make sure it wouldn't just melt insulation or peel paint. Seems stable so I'm holding on to it hoping if I need to repel rabbits or squirrels I can give it a try.

  37. #77
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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Yeah, a couple of years ago I had a problem with a rat eating on my cars hoses and it also ate a hole in my windshield washer reservoir(a guy told me they are looking for water, I don't know). Also, ate through a water hose on my washing machine, which flooded my garage. Cost me a bunch of money. I tried placing poison pellets under the hood and around the garage. I finally caught it in a trap, can't remember if it was a glue or spring trap but I had to finish it off with a hammer. I think I was a little bitter because I left it laying in the middle of the garage for about 5 days to show any other rats what happens when you mess with my stuff. lol

  38. #78
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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    If you can stand to watch paint dry, this guy does his best to be amusing as he provides real world EV experiences. Pretty much new or rather new vehicles too. I can only imagine how wonky a 4 year old EV might get. Not to mention aging public charging stations out on the road.


  39. #79

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    It's hard for you to imagine a 200km journey that only costs $1 for electricity. An electric car with a 300km range only cost $6000 a year and a half ago, but now it costs $10000 to buy a new energy vehicle. In China, oil prices are very expensive, so there is a large market for electric vehicles. China only needs $0.5 for 10 kilowatts of electricity, while Japan's cost may reach $2.
    "However, the battery life is really not long, and only electric vehicles can be replaced with batteries from any manufacturer at will. At that time, the technology was truly mature.". However, the raw materials for lithium batteries have also increased too much, from $7000 per ton at the beginning to $60000 per ton.
    Xiaomi's phone used to cost only $300, but now it has risen to $700.
    The cheapest time may be the beginning of price increases. It is hoped that competition will generate more inventions and truly lower the price of new energy vehicles.

  40. #80

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    It costs $120 to replace the battery for an IPHONE, and $300-400 to replace the battery for a Mac laptop. In China, a smartphone with a strong CPU configuration can be purchased for $200. Now, new energy vehicles are also learning the routine of the mobile phone market. Forcing users to throw away the entire vehicle once the battery life has expired.
    Unless the entire country enforces that every car must be able to have users find a battery manufacturer to replace it, but car manufacturers certainly do not want to do so. "They just want to sell as many cars as possible, and they are not willing to replace the battery for free. Sometimes the cost of replacing the battery exceeds buying a new car.".
    It's like Apple forcing you to buy a new phone when the battery capacity of your phone drops. The market is always forcing consumers to spend more money.
    When you think about it, it's a miracle that many American cars can drive for 30-50 years, because electric cars are basically going to be abandoned in 5-8 years. Causing a large amount of resource waste and environmental pollution.

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