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Thread: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

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    The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    The Volkswagen sub-brand "Sihao" electric car (E10X) has been launched in April 2021, at around $6,500, and the high-end version is $10,000.

    https://www.jac.com.cn/jacweb/shE10x/
    http://wap.jac.com.cn/shE10x/index.htm

    Wuling Hongguang Mini, the price is 5000-6000 US dollars.
    The electric vehicle industry will also develop into a battle for mobile phone brands: Apple mobile phones, Samsung mobile phones, VIVO, OPPO, and Xiaomi.

    The main reason for Tesla is that the price is too expensive, and many people need cheaper electric cars.

    I don’t know what local brand of electric cars produced in your country sells better

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    Last edited by xiaoyao; Oct 12th, 2021 at 10:38 PM.

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    It only costs 1 cent for electricity to drive 2 kilometers. By the evening of March 14th, I noticed that the total charge was 187.8KW/h, which is often said to be 187.8 degrees or 187.8 words. The electricity price here is about 0.45 yuan. At the end of September, the total electricity bill has been spent until now. At around 85 yuan, an average of one kilometer is equivalent to about 4 cents.

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Wuling Hongguang MINI EV sold 14,733 units in September, ranking first in the sales of pure electric vehicles in September, nearly 4,000 more than the second Tesla Model 3. What is even more surprising is that Hongguang MINI EV is on the market. In the first month, in August of this year, there were 15,000 sales, that is to say, it has beaten Model 3 for two consecutive months and became the monthly sales leader of pure electric vehicles.

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    How far will those cars go on a charge and how long does it take to charge one?

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Considering the current large scale blackouts due to coal shortages, maybe 6 hours riding the charging bike for every 30 minutes of driving?

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve R Jones View Post
    How far will those cars go on a charge and how long does it take to charge one?
    It can run 200 kilometers in 40 minutes of charging. GAC Aeon is a high-end brand, and its production capacity is not enough. The SPEED++ version can be charged in 5 minutes, and the battery life is more than 207km.


    Generally, electric vehicles under US$15,000 are basically 300-500 kilometers away, and fast charging is basically 0.5 hours to 1.5 hours.

    The fast charging current is 74A, the voltage is 380V. The charging speed is 28 degrees per hour.
    Household 220V charging is generally 5-15A current, charging 1-3.3 kWh per hour
    Last edited by xiaoyao; Oct 9th, 2021 at 08:24 AM.

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Electricity price has risen! As coal prices continue to rise, the rate of increase in transaction electricity prices will be increased from 10% to 20%, and the rate of increase in high energy consumption will be higher. Obviously, terminal electricity prices will be increased.

    UK electricity prices increased by 500%, breaking 22-year record, Li Ka-shing became the biggest winner

    According to data from the British Petrol Retailers Association, more than a quarter of gas stations in the UK do not have gasoline to fill, and another 20% of gas stations have very low inventories. Around London, many gas stations are still closed, and those with gasoline supply are surrounded by long lines of cars waiting to refuel
    Last edited by xiaoyao; Oct 9th, 2021 at 08:10 AM.

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Because of the sharp rise in energy prices and the shortage of food supplies, British people have rushed to buy supermarkets during this period. In many cases, British supermarkets are sold out as soon as the goods are on the shelves.

    The unprecedented enthusiasm for "buying" by the British people has in turn promoted the rise of prices in the UK, because the shortage of supply is getting worse and worse. The end result is "the British people have a headache, the British energy company is a headache, and the British government is also a headache."

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    A big issue with the price of cars has to do with safety standards, which are different in different countries. The EU has a different standard from the US, where each focuses on different kinds of safety. That can mean that a car produced for the EU can't be certified for US roads, and vice versa. I would expect that those different standards also apply to other countries, with some countries having no standards at all.

    From what little I have heard of it, the EU standards seem a bit nicer than the US standards.

    I'd like to go electric, I just have some issues I'd have to get around. For that reason, I think I'll be waiting at least one more year before doing that.
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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaoyao View Post
    UK electricity prices increased by 500%
    No they haven't, it is about 10%

    The reason for the rise is because we are not using coal any more, because is bad for the environment. We haven't got enough renewable power supply yet (wind/solar/etc), and had a bad year for it (low wind etc). To make up for that we have been using natural gas instead of coal, and politics from Russia has increased the price of that gas.

    In a few years we will have the renewables etc sorted out completely, and wont be poisoning our people (and the world itself) with the pollution from coal.

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaoyao View Post
    In many cases, British supermarkets are sold out as soon as the goods are on the shelves.
    Not true, the supermarkets generally still have about 90% of their usual stock. The main difference is we don't get as much choice for the same products (eg: you can only buy 2 pack sizes of a particular item, instead of 4).

    the British government is also a headache.
    Agreed!

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    The energy war will never end. Because of oil, coal is not renewable. Coupled with currency depreciation, price increases are inevitable. In China, a steamed bun used to cost 3 cents, but now it’s 2 yuan, which has increased by 6 times in a few ten years. I remembered that the steamed buns that were sold at the school at 1 cent, now cost 1 yuan each, and the taste is not as good as before.

    In addition, there are things like futures used to control the market, 10 times, 100 times frame bar to raise prices. When these capitalists want to run, they will be bearish again, and then they will earn hundreds of billions and trillions. And others lost there.
    If there is no bullying, oil prices will not rise endlessly.

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    In September 2016, Xiaomi 5S was released, the price was 1999 yuan. On March 29, 2021, Xiaomi Mi 11 Pro was released, and the price rose to 5000 yuan
    Prices have risen by 150-200% in 5 years

    The rise in raw materials, chips, and batteries, coupled with rising oil prices, have also increased the price of electric vehicles.
    Electricity bills have also risen, but it still cannot stop the trend of electric cars on par with gasoline cars. As long as there is a lot of oil excavation.
    There is still a market for gasoline vehicles, but many countries and large cities have to ban gasoline vehicles because of the relatively high pollution.

    Countries like Germany feel that nuclear power plants are not safe, so most of them are shut down. However, Japan's small country has built a large number of nuclear power plants.
    Japan’s nuclear power plant exploded and leaks will continue to occur. The industrial revolution, coupled with assembly line automation to replace expensive labor costs, requires a lot of power.
    Last edited by xiaoyao; Oct 9th, 2021 at 04:57 PM.

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    In July, Tesla produced 32,000 cars at its factory in China, but exports accounted for 24,000 cars.
    In other words, Tesla sold 8,621 units in China.
    BYD's new energy passenger vehicle sales soared 262.7% year-on-year to 50057, defending China's new energy passenger vehicle monthly sales champion.
    Sales are 5.8 times that of Tesla.

    This data can be said to be an unprecedented defeat for Tesla. We must know that in June, Tesla’s total sales reached 33,000 units, and it contributed 28,000 units to the Chinese market.
    Tesla CEO Musk is still reluctant to face this fact. When answering the question of the plummeting sales in July, Musk said: "The supply of his own car chips has been restricted. The problem lies with Renesas and Bosch. On-board chip suppliers".

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Not long ago, a large explosion occurred in a lithium battery factory of Tesla in Australia, and the 13-ton lithium battery was instantly wiped out.
    It caused irreparable losses to Tesla's brand image and battery production capacity.
    [Just like the previous hard disk capacity incident, in the future lithium battery manufacturers will explode, futures will push up the price of lithium materials, etc., and the price of electric vehicles will rise a lot]
    Unable to stop the car caused a large number of incidents. The accident news again and again made Tesla encounter unprecedented difficulties in sales, and its attitude to deal with the problem completely defeated its goodwill in the hearts of consumers.

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Since 2009, China's auto sales (purchasing volume) has always maintained its top ranking in the world. Last year, the sales volume reached 25.31 million, and its share in the world increased to 32.5% (China is a big market that cannot be ignored)

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Yeah, it's a really big market, but it's also kind of a weird market. The cars you seem to favor appear to be based on factors I don't understand. I'd sure like to see cheaper electric vehicles in the US, and we are slowly moving that way, but we'll never get to the prices you are talking about.

    When looking at the increase in vehicle costs, you can't just look at the price tag. You also have to consider the features. Cars in the US that were sold in the 90s have a LOT fewer features than cars sold today. It's possible to build a cheap car in the US, but not if you also want to have backup cameras, a dozen air bags, blind spot sensors, lane following sensors, tire pressure sensors, sleepiness sensors, and an onboard movie system. So much is being put into cars, these days, that the price is going to be pretty high just for that reason.
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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Yes, the price of Xiaomi mobile phones 5 years ago in 1999 has risen to around 4000 now. Mobile phones and automobiles actually belong to similar industries, with large sales volume and fast replacement cycles. But a $150 mobile phone is just as easy to use, although it is not as fast as a $1,000 CPU and has a large screen.

    Inexpensive electric cars, there are no airbags at the beginning, and almost half of the front of the car is gone when it hits it. An electric car that is too short is theoretically unsafe. Cheaper electric cars have this demand, and China's economic level is not as good as that of the United States.
    The cost of replacing batteries in electric vehicles is very expensive, so you can only buy cheaper models. I really hope that one day the car battery packs will be universal and any battery manufacturer can provide alternatives. It's like the lead-acid battery of a two-wheeled battery car (electric bicycle). Standard size 12V, Can install 4-6 batteries, all universal.

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Yeah, even my 2018 Civic with its stock infotainment system has basic voice recognition to select music by artist, album, or title from the current media library (USB flash memory and/or plugged-in phone). No cloud or network access required, works even with no phone in the car.

    Then you have all the safety stuff from tire-pressure monitors, seatbelts, airbags, etc. to the crush and roll-resistant passenger cage and glass.

    A few years later things like radar and other sensors have become standard, linked to driver moderation and warning devices to keep you in your lane and avoid hitting the car ahead.

    It's a lot of crap to roll down the road. Some useful, some vanity, and a lot to eventually need repair.

    Larger, heavier, more power, and more expensive than the much earlier model it replaced which was a gas-electric hybrid. I'm not convinced we have moved in the right direction.

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaoyao View Post
    The energy war will never end. Because of oil, coal is not renewable. Coupled with currency depreciation, price increases are inevitable. In China, a steamed bun used to cost 3 cents, but now it’s 2 yuan, which has increased by 6 times in a few ten years. I remembered that the steamed buns that were sold at the school at 1 cent, now cost 1 yuan each, and the taste is not as good as before.

    In addition, there are things like futures used to control the market, 10 times, 100 times frame bar to raise prices. When these capitalists want to run, they will be bearish again, and then they will earn hundreds of billions and trillions. And others lost there.
    If there is no bullying, oil prices will not rise endlessly.
    Food for thought.... Since you are posting to mainly an ENGLISH speaking audience Do Not mix things up. (see the bolded text)

    Does 2 yuan equal 32 Cents?

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    There is something wrong with the Translation. I originally said deep-fried dough sticks.It is to fry things made of flour in oil. It's kind of like bread.
    The price used to be 4 cents.Now the price has risen to about 25 cents.

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    "Before the management of low-speed electric vehicles has been chaotic, there are many problems, such as products that do not meet national safety standards, resulting in frequent accidents. Now A00-class electric vehicles are only 30,000 to 40,000 yuan, and they are fully in line with national safety standards. It can handle this. In some markets, the problem of low-speed electric motors has been solved." Wang Binggang said.

    But it's just that it's relatively safe. For example, driving slowly in the city takes 30 minutes on a 7-kilometer road. But it is also possible that some people were driving at a high speed and hit 8 cars in a row. If the safety of the car is not high, the person will be seriously injured or dead.

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Russia does not produce electric cars so far, seeing the development of Europe and America! Subsidizing domestically-made electric cars substantially: Tesla has ideas

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    "Software-defined car" means that car functions can be continuously updated. It is reported that the iteration speed of car functions for models developed on e-platform 3.0 can be shortened to two weeks. ".

    Electric vehicles are just like VB6.0. Once they are mature, they may evolve into VB.NET, C#, and continue to occupy the market for 10 years and 20 years.

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    The body layout and “condensed” parts starting from the battery position have released unprecedented freedom for styling designers, and the aesthetics of automobile styling will also usher in a sudden change. Pure electric cars are more like from the inside to the outside. A new species of car.

    More and more evidence shows that electric vehicles are now becoming mainstream. Traditional car companies have recently invested heavily in electrification transformation and development
    The number one electric car manufacturer Tesla has a higher valuation than the top five traditional automakers combined
    Last edited by xiaoyao; Oct 12th, 2021 at 03:51 PM.

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    We aren't going to get unprecedented freedom of styling from designers. That's just market speak. We HAD a lot of freedom of styling, and ended up with fins. These days, aerodynamics coupled with some aesthetic sensibilities will limit what designers can do. The first of those is based on physics, and we don't get to change the laws of physics. As for the aesthetics, there is a limit to how much aerodynamic styling people are willing to accept. If we wanted to be REALLY aerodynamic, we'd end up with teardrop cars, or lozenge cars. Nobody goes for those, currently, but we are slowly moving in that direction.
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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    That's a good point. When we put aerodynamics first we got things like 1999 Insight and before that General Motors EV1.

    Both were more "radical" looking than the early Prius, which had a rocky start before conspicuous consumption made it a popular "third car" for weekend green cred even though a lot of them sat garaged during the work week.

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Selling a car is like selling a mobile phone and selling a CPU. Either high prices and make enough profits. First place. Either small profits but quick turnover, seize the market, and then raise prices to increase profits.

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    The Insight didn't go far enough. It still has a flat back, though it is somewhat tapered. People have a feel that cars are aerodynamic if they are wedge shaped, but it matters a whole lot more how you put the air back into the hole you create rather than how you push it aside in the first place. A flat back leaves a vacuum at speed that increases drag.

    Still, that's a good point about the conspicuous consumption, though I think you have it backwards. I'm tempted to get an electric second car, but it would be used for the work week, not for the weekend. For me, an electric commuter vehicle would almost make sense. I only need about 60-70 miles range, which every electric on the US market can do with ease. I could then keep the gas powered car for the long distance drive where electric would be problematic.

    There are two reasons that I haven't done this:

    1) I don't have room in the garage, because there's a sailboat in the second stall. This would mean that something would have to be parked on the street, and it would have to be the gas car, since I'd need to be charging the electric, and I'm not putting the boat on the street.

    2) I'm not commuting enough to matter. Who cares what powers my car when I don't start it for two weeks at a time?
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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    According to a report from the Boston Globe on September 3, the number of confirmed cases of new coronary pneumonia in Idaho, the United States, has surged, the number of emergency, hospitalized, and critically ill patients has reached a record high, and the medical system has almost collapsed.

    Medical experts said that by mid-September, Idaho may add 30,000 new cases of new coronary pneumonia every week. Due to a severe shortage of hospital beds and staff, and Idaho is one of the states with the lowest COVID-19 vaccination rate in the United States, the state’s medical staff are becoming increasingly desperate.

    Crematoriums are also overloaded. In many places, crematoriums are allowed to operate 24 hours a day, and the working hours of workers have been extended to 16 hours. However, even so, the corpses were still piled up like a mountain, and people had to wait a few weeks before they could cremate their loved ones. This is not much better than burning corpses with firewood everywhere in India. Worry for them, may God end the disaster soon.
    Last edited by xiaoyao; Oct 13th, 2021 at 04:16 PM.

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    New energy vehicle policy, COVID-19 vaccine policy, traffic regulations, and national encouragement and management are the most important factors.
    The company that builds electric cars in China now is like Bill Gates founded dos and windows. With a large amount of capital investment, this is the Silicon Valley of the energy industry.
    But China's traffic law still has many problems. For example, on urban roads, battery cars cross the road at will, and pedestrians enter the motorway. This adds a lot of safety hazards to drivers who drive, and insurance companies have to pay for these non-motorized vehicles and pedestrians who caused the accident.
    In this regard, Japan's management and quality are really top-notch, and I have to admire it.

    In the United States, 12 people per 100,000 people die in traffic accidents each year, in the UK 7 people per 100,000 people die in traffic accidents, and only 4 people per 100,000 people in Japan die in traffic accidents. The population density of Japan is 9.7 times that of the United States.
    Last edited by xiaoyao; Oct 13th, 2021 at 04:18 PM.

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    The driving license test is strict, at least 6 months or more.
    The driving test in Japan is also very expensive and demanding, usually around RMB 20,000. There are generally two types of driving license tests: one is general education, and the other is called co-hosting.
    Through school, I choose a few days a week to study, but the time is much longer than in China, usually about 6 months. (Basically, the total study time for the Chinese driving license test may only be 3-5 days)

    The so-called co-living means that the driving school provides accommodation, eating and drinking Lazarus are in the school, and the intensive training is two weeks, which can be regarded as a kind of intensive cram school.

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaoyao View Post
    According to a report from the Boston Globe on September 3, the number of confirmed cases of new coronary pneumonia in Idaho, the United States, has surged, the number of emergency, hospitalized, and critically ill patients has reached a record high, and the medical system has almost collapsed.

    Medical experts said that by mid-September, Idaho may add 30,000 new cases of new coronary pneumonia every week. Due to a severe shortage of hospital beds and staff, and Idaho is one of the states with the lowest COVID-19 vaccination rate in the United States, the state’s medical staff are becoming increasingly desperate.

    Crematoriums are also overloaded. In many places, crematoriums are allowed to operate 24 hours a day, and the working hours of workers have been extended to 16 hours. However, even so, the corpses were still piled up like a mountain, and people had to wait a few weeks before they could cremate their loved ones. This is not much better than burning corpses with firewood everywhere in India. Worry for them, may God end the disaster soon.
    I have no idea why you added this post to THIS thread, but note that the Globe article was an extrapolation from early September, and some of it appears to be wrong. For one thing, they extrapolated to a very high daily rate. Idaho is mostly unpopulated. There's a cap on the number of daily cases that are even theoretically possible. It got bad, but seems to have leveled off at a tiny fraction of what they thought it would get to.

    Also, that bit about crematoriums appears to have been flat out wrong. The local news talked to mortuaries in the larger population centers, and none reported having any difficulty keeping up. There has been an increase in deaths, to be sure, but not so many that corpses are piling up.
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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Perhaps he was describing a fuel source to charge electric cars in the midst of the coal shortage?

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    What I am talking about is that the policies led by a country or a region are very important. If the United States manages well, the global oil and coal prices may not rise in such a boundless way. In this case, it is estimated that only the purchase of futures can maintain the value.

    The traffic accident rate in China is very high, mainly because of the high requirements for drivers, but there is almost no requirement for electric tricycles, battery cars, and bicycles. They caused a large number of accidents, and they did not buy insurance, and accidents were also the main responsibility of motor vehicles.
    The government does not act, and the people have no choice but to suffer and spend more money.

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    China's current electricity bill is still cheap, and it is cost-effective to buy an electric car. 0.5-1 cents per kilometer. If the electricity bill rises by 50%-200%, it may not be worthwhile to buy a new energy vehicle. The rise in electricity bills is inevitable, and the most important thing is how to recycle old batteries.
    For example, the battery packs of each car are all unified, so that some batteries lose 20%, 35%, and they can also be rented or sold to people in need. Some people just drive in the city, and older batteries are enough. . The batteries of the same capacity can be newly classified and assembled into large battery packs.
    Just like a shared bicycle, the older ones can still be used if there are many parts with a small amount of damage.

    Like the previous mobile phone chargers are all different, each manufacturer produces its own. This aspect still exists on laptops. If there are regulations in the back, all the same USB charging is used, which saves a lot of worry.

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Perhaps he was describing a fuel source to charge electric cars in the midst of the coal shortage?
    Does Soylent Green burn?
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  37. #37
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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaoyao View Post

    Like the previous mobile phone chargers are all different, each manufacturer produces its own. This aspect still exists on laptops. If there are regulations in the back, all the same USB charging is used, which saves a lot of worry.
    I feel that that is an important point. If every electric vehicle manufacturer uses a proprietary plug, it will be a nightmare for drivers. If everybody uses the standard 110V plug, then any outlet can be used....slowly. Asking everybody to work with US 240V standard outlets is probably going to kill some people each year. Our plugs aren't all that well designed. Still, we need a higher rated plug for fast charging, so there is a potential for every manufacturer to go their own way. A standard is necessary.
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  38. #38

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    Commercial charging stations in China are basically unified, which is quite gratifying.Out of Tesla, he built his own special charging pile.But it also supports Chinese standards.

  39. #39

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    As the impact of the epidemic gradually expands, Malaysia, which currently accounts for 50% of the global chip manufacturing market, has officially begun to reduce production. In order to avoid widespread infection in chip factories, Malaysian and Western officials ordered that the operating rate of all factories should not exceed 20%, which means that the supply of chips, which was originally in short supply, will drop by 80% again. The interference of the epidemic has directly created a special "gap period" for chip supply.
    As this impact is gradually expanding, the subsequent US General Group discloses that the company's previously planned electric vehicle production line will be fully disclosed due to the shortage of the chip.At the same time, the shortage of car chips also seriously affects the general high-end automotive series, including plants such as joints and cars have also been affected.

    I see a lot of traditional gasoline cars now, and they also use large LCD screens.This also needs to communicate with the signal inside the car, so it is also a kind of chip.

  40. #40

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    Re: The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

    I just bought an electric car these few days. The main problem is that the current is too large when I start, and it may go backwards when going uphill, which is more dangerous. The intersection of flat roads and traffic lights is quite convenient.

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