The $5,000 electric car-5G battle vs. new energy vehicle battle

[Shaggy Hiker]

Inception?

[sapator]

Not sure.
I think is the movie that the city curls? I only watched it once as it's crappy, for me.
Maybe it was that one but I'm not watching it again to make sure.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I've only watched it once, too, but I do think it's the one where the city curls. I don't remember it being all that memorable from a plot perspective.

[dilettante]

I've only watched it once, too, but I do think it's the one where the city curls. I don't remember it being all that memorable from a plot perspective.

Yeah, it seemed like somebody had a visual effect and shopped around for some kind of story to wrap that around.

[Shaggy Hiker]

When CGI was kind of new, every movie could feature their "cool new effect". By now, there is nothing that should surprise anybody. You have to be a serious camera operator insider to fully appreciate any new move, and you can never rule out CGI. I suppose it's too much to ask that movies stop trying to top the spectacle of other movies. At this point, that can't be done. More special stunts are meaningless, because it is probably just green screen work. More special effects are also meaningless. Perhaps we could get back to plot?

[sapator]

Consider "plot" as gameplay on old games (for a discussion that we previous had with lobsters that went sideways).
Free Niya!

[Shaggy Hiker]

Gameplay on old games was rubbish. It was way too restrictive and very few games got logic right if that was even part of the game. Nostalgia just isn't what it used to be.

[sapator]

Gameplay on old games was rubbish

Good one.
Just 2 words.
Tetris, Pac-Man, for the very known ones.
Nighty night.

Edit: I'll allow a pun that these are 3 words...

[dilettante]

Things are already getting bad even with EV adoption under 5%.

This might be a time for consumer-owned utilities again, though the opposition comes not only from Wall Street and established power generation corporations, but also the politicians they have in their pockets.



The EV lobby is fond of making statements like this:

Battery electric vehicles make up 6.7% of light-duty vehicles sold in the U.S. When you add hybrid and plug-in hybrid vehicles, EVs comprise 16% of light-duty vehicles sold.

That's a distortion though, fake news. While the figures may not overestimate reality, they only reflect new vehicles sales and say nothing about the fraction of vehicles on the road today that are EVs and PHEVs, and HEVs should not be included there since they don't represent any grid load.

That 16% appears to drop to more like maybe 12% if you hold your mouth right.


What it means is that actual EV + PHEV vehicle population is probably a lot closer to 3% at best. And yet we already see vehicles being stranded and fist fights breaking out at public charging stations, while blackouts and power usage restrictions are already taking place.

The goals are too optimistic and power sourcing too fragile. And even at that it hangs by a thread of government subsidies and cost-shifting onto the back of conventional vehicle buyers.

Every time you turn around it looks like a giant welfare program for the rich.

[sapator]

By adopting the assumption that oil giants do no really won't the well being of humanity (almost all the wars are about oil) but just to make money and by establishing that EV is actually a part of the energy cycle and oil companies been out of business from EV cars, I would not really worry as those same companies are not worrying right now. The minute they start to worry then possibly a water driver engine would have been discovered. This looks cool but it's not simple water https://www.hyperion.inc/
Also think about the planes, won't anyone think about the planes!?

[Shaggy Hiker]

Also think about the planes, won't anyone think about the planes!?

No, they go over my head.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Things are already getting bad even with EV adoption under 5%.

This might be a time for consumer-owned utilities again, though the opposition comes not only from Wall Street and established power generation corporations, but also the politicians they have in their pockets.



The EV lobby is fond of making statements like this:



That's a distortion though, fake news. While the figures may not overestimate reality, they only reflect new vehicles sales and say nothing about the fraction of vehicles on the road today that are EVs and PHEVs, and HEVs should not be included there since they don't represent any grid load.

That 16% appears to drop to more like maybe 12% if you hold your mouth right.


What it means is that actual EV + PHEV vehicle population is probably a lot closer to 3% at best. And yet we already see vehicles being stranded and fist fights breaking out at public charging stations, while blackouts and power usage restrictions are already taking place.

The goals are too optimistic and power sourcing too fragile. And even at that it hangs by a thread of government subsidies and cost-shifting onto the back of conventional vehicle buyers.

Every time you turn around it looks like a giant welfare program for the rich.

So what do you propose? That no EVs be sold until there is enough infrastructure out there to support a total change over? That we simply give up with any attempt to get off of fossil fuels? Or that we simply give up whenever a problem proves to be difficult/time consuming?

[sapator]

Fighting a non win battle is pointless. EV was a scam to begin with.

[techgnome]

No, they go over my head.

Except in South Carolina where we recently put $80M in planes into a county out here...
https://www.live5news.com/2023/09/22...e-airplane-is/

Context - over the weekend, someone flyiong an F-35 around Charleston (they were coming from down south of here headed north) when they experience "an incident" and the pilot ejected. Because the jet was a stealth fighter, it went into dark mode at the moment of ejection... and then kept flying... it finally came down a couple counties north of here near a lake ... but for two days no one could find it. It's lead to all sorts of memes and jokes.

-tg

[Shaggy Hiker]

I'd heard about that one, but never got the whole story.

[dilettante]

I think the aggressive schedule needs to be altered to something that does not require subsidies and other expenses levied on the many to ease the lives of the few. So far the EV mandates amount to the worst regressive taxation in history.

EVs are clearly not affordable or sustainable for everyone. Once the automakers have no normal cars to mark up they won't have that propping EV production. If numbers of EVs sold rises the government subsidies dry up rapidly.

That doesn't even begin to address production and transmission of the additional electricity required.


So back up and discourage oversized overweight vehicles. Produce more reasonably sized HEVs that use standardized and modular batteries, decreasing replacement costs and increasing rebuild/recyclability and making a used car market for them viable. Phase out PHEVs, which are the worst of both worlds. Produce more EVs for those dense cities where they fit in, but probably of a scale similar to the 1960s VW Beetle or Toyota Corolla.

For infrastructure rebuild, slow the roll but keep rolling. Grid updates are already necessary without the EV burden, and cleaner power production can go hand in hand with expansion.

I don't see why the current forced punitive process rewarding inequality makes any sense.

[xiaoyao]

In China, the main reason for the popularity of new energy vehicles is that electricity bills have not risen for more than 10 years. And oil prices are up 100%. It will continue to rise to 300%.

For example, eight years ago, China's Xiaomi mobile phone, the price only needs 300 US dollars, while Apple's mobile phone at that time costs 1,000 to 1,500 US dollars.
But now Xiaomi phones are going up to $700. Prices have gone up, Qualcomm cpus have gone up, but electricity prices in China have not gone up.

The price of gasoline is controlled by the capitalists, so the price will continue to rise. Eventually, more than half of China's households will buy electric cars.

[xiaoyao]

You can buy a small plane in the United States for just over $10,000. But when this product is sold in China, it becomes $150,000, and the annual maintenance and repair cost is much higher.
The other day, a man was parachuting or paragliding from a high altitude or an airplane, and he was about to descend to the ground, and he got caught in a high-voltage wire, and finally burned up in a big fire and went up in smoke in a second.

Who wants to go to heaven when you're only five seconds away from success?

Maybe in another 10 years, a lot of electric planes, gasoline planes will become as popular as cars.