Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345
Results 161 to 177 of 177

Thread: Democracy

  1. #161
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    36,574

    Re: Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by digitalShaman View Post
    And we are heading to a scenario where a human from 2yrs old till death has to get an injection every year from stock traded pharmaceutical companies to be allowed to go to kindergarden, school, work and so on.
    That would be a pretty excessive extrapolation. As it stands, in the US, there ARE vaccination requirements to attend public school, but they aren't every year. To get to the extreme extrapolation you have gotten to you have to assume that annual boosters are essential, there's no reason to expect that. Furthermore, some vaccinations could go away, such as polio and smallpox, once the disease has been wiped out.
    this is not the world i want to live in.
    Don't worry, life isn't permanent.

    some studies say, and this was also brought up during the FDA hearing around the third jab a few days ago, that more people die because of the vaccine than because of covid. this conclusion is drawn by considering the notorious and well researched underreporting of adverse events.
    Yeah? How about showing some evidence of this, because it's nonsense, so you have to back it with at least something.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  2. #162

    Thread Starter
    Frenzied Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Central Europe
    Posts
    1,338

    Re: Democracy

    That would be a pretty excessive extrapolation. As it stands, in the US, there ARE vaccination requirements to attend public school, but they aren't every year. To get to the extreme extrapolation you have gotten to you have to assume that annual boosters are essential, there's no reason to expect that.
    wait and we will see.

    Furthermore, some vaccinations could go away, such as polio and smallpox, once the disease has been wiped out.
    dont put real immunating vaccines into the same pot as leaky vaccines.

    Yeah? How about showing some evidence of this, because it's nonsense, so you have to back it with at least something.
    https://www.skirsch.com/covid/Deaths.pdf
    There is also a group of german scientists who did the same and came to a similar conclusion. the study was (of course) not published. i am not searching for a link as you wont be able to read it anyway and you made up your mind already.
    i'm sure you will find something to argue against these results. dont expect me to bring counter arguments.
    i'd just recommend keeping an eye on population statistics (deaths, death causes, births etc.) and an open mind.

  3. #163
    King of sapila
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    6,031

    Re: Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by digitalShaman View Post


    https://www.skirsch.com/covid/Deaths.pdf
    There is also a group of german scientists who did the same and came to a similar conclusion. the study was (of course) not published. i am not searching for a link as you wont be able to read it anyway and you made up your mind already.
    i'm sure you will find something to argue against these results. dont expect me to bring counter arguments.
    i'd just recommend keeping an eye on population statistics (deaths, death causes, births etc.) and an open mind.
    Hahahaha, oh boy you gonna have such a great time now from the vaxbie spiders(not Shaggy). I would suggest not putting this to the table it's not worth the effort.
    .

  4. #164
    King of sapila
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    6,031

    Re: Democracy

    Spidersss...Assemble!!



    Name:  vaxr.jpg
Views: 105
Size:  43.0 KB
    .

  5. #165
    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    107,636

    Re: Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by digitalShaman View Post
    the study was (of course) not published.
    And I'm guessing that you have concluded that that is due to some conspiracy to hide the truth, rather than that it was a bad study.

  6. #166
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    36,574

    Re: Democracy

    That report starts with crap, continues with crap, and ends with crap. First off, they start with a nonsense statement about the low number of COVID deaths in the US. The official count is nearly three times that high, but the deaths above the normal rate is actually more like four times as high, so the official count is low....or are they saying that there is something else that happened after COVID showed up, but before vaccines were developed, which accounts for an extra 400,000 deaths? No, they're pretending that those people died of other causes. That's absurd. Everybody is going to die, eventually. Are they seriously saying an extra 400,000 people hurried up to die in 2020 just to throw off the numbers? Nope, they aren't saying anything, they're just using that to get the COVID death rate down low enough for their argument to be true (if you accept their other numbers), but are doing so without justification.

    They then go on to cook the books on their numbers, repeatedly. Let's see, there are no official deaths from the vaccine...but they talk about autopsies on people who clearly died from the vaccine. Really? If the vaccine isn't the cause of death, how do you identify those people?

    They also do some serious tinfoil hat stuff in there. They left out that case of paralysis, which apparently all of the government and all of the media are collaborating to keep silent. That's pretty obvious nonsense. The number of people who would have to be colluding for that to be true would be enormous...AND they would have to be in lockstep....AND they happen to hate each other and fight like stray cats on EVERY other issue...except the one that the conspiracy theorists NEED them to be in lockstep on, and for no reason clear or opaque.

    So, it amounts to: If you cook the numbers that you do have, make up the numbers that you don't have, and perform some crazy extrapolations...yeah, there are all these deaths, which literally millions of people are all working together to keep secret, even though those millions of people don't work together for ANY other reason.

    WHY? Why would they suddenly come together to keep this a secret? Why did these authors have to throw out most COVID deaths....oh yeah, if they used the official number of 650,000, or the excess death number which is up around 850,000, by now, then their basic premise would be wrong even with all the book cooking they did to get there.

    It's nonsense, and it's irrational nonsense.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  7. #167
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    An obscure body in the SK system. The inhabitants call it Earth
    Posts
    7,716

    Re: Democracy

    It's published by Steve Kirsch who has precisely zero background in virology. He's a computer scientist who did some flawed data analysis. I couldn't find who Jessica Rose is (unless she's a make up artist from Cheltenham which seems unlikely). Mathew Crawford describes himself as an "Educator, Entrepreneur, Statistician, Finance Specialist" - so, again, no expertise in virology.

    As a source for the efficacy and /or harmful side effects of covid vaccinations they're about as reliable as Nikki Manage (though she did correctly identified that my anaconda don't want none unless you've got buns, hun... so maybe we should take her more seriously).

    It's a good thing that the public at large do their own research before engaging they're affirmation bias otherwise that sort of information could do real damage. Oh wait... you didn't.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill

    Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd

  8. #168
    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    107,636

    Re: Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by digitalShaman View Post
    wait and we will see.
    We could say that about anything. You're obviously claiming that something specific will happen but if the best you have to back that claim up with is 'wait and see" then you obviously have nothing to back that claim up with. In my experience, the people who make such claims rarely come back and admit their mistake when things don't turn out the way they claimed they would.

  9. #169
    Fanatic Member Delaney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    715

    Re: Democracy

    the only serious medical person named Jessica Rose is this one https://www.stanfordchildrens.org/en...r/jessica-rose

    there is an other one here : https://il.linkedin.com/in/jessica-rose-85702519

    the famous paper of the famous Jessica Rose is this one : https://www.datascienceassn.org/site...%2C%202021.pdf

    it is interesting to note about the author :
    Author affiliation: The Institute for Pure and Applied Knowledge but no other affiliation like an university or anything else...
    Correspondence: jrose@ipaknowledge.org

    by the way, I know no one who has a PHD who write " PhD, MSc, BSc" usually PHD is enough as if the number of degrees is of importance (of course if you have a PhD you have the MSc level and the BSc level) by the way, the field of her PhD is not precised in the publication but it is in her biography (see after).

    IPAK is (from them) "a not-for-profit organization which exists to perform scientific research in the public interest"

    from IPAK, Research Fellow Dr. Jessica Rose is an immunologist and molecular biologist who has specialized in computational biology and the bio-mechanisms behind pathogenic infections, Her research and publications include investigating hepatitis B, cytomegalovirus, HIV, and anthrax. (source: https://www.facebook.com/ipaknowledg...5110339618269/


    Edit, I found some other articles about her :
    https://covexit.com/wp-content/uploa...hy_Dr_Rose.pdf
    https://covexit.com/vaers-what-do-the-data-tell-us/

    all this correspond to the woman of the linkedin profile above.
    Last edited by Delaney; Sep 26th, 2021 at 02:54 PM.
    The best friend of any programmer is a search engine
    "Don't wish it was easier, wish you were better. Don't wish for less problems, wish for more skills. Don't wish for less challenges, wish for more wisdom" (J. Rohn)
    “They did not know it was impossible so they did it” (Mark Twain)

  10. #170
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    36,574

    Re: Democracy

    Good detective work.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  11. #171
    King of sapila
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    6,031

    Re: Democracy

    Well Clouseau was from France, so...
    .

  12. #172
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    36,574

    Re: Democracy

    That was NOT great detective work, though very entertaining.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  13. #173
    Fanatic Member Delaney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    715

    Re: Democracy

    That's very funny because Clouseau is in the Pink Panther movie, Pink in french is "Rose"... it remains to be seen if Jessica Rose is a panther
    The best friend of any programmer is a search engine
    "Don't wish it was easier, wish you were better. Don't wish for less problems, wish for more skills. Don't wish for less challenges, wish for more wisdom" (J. Rohn)
    “They did not know it was impossible so they did it” (Mark Twain)

  14. #174
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    An obscure body in the SK system. The inhabitants call it Earth
    Posts
    7,716

    Re: Democracy

    I would guess it's the linked in profile rather than the Stanford Childrens Health because the latter, although medical at least, is specialised in orthopaedics. The linked in profiles is, at least, for an immunologist who's currently contributing to a site call "covexit.com". Draw your own conclusions.

    Or, hell, have a quick scan of the their articles for yourselves and see if you can detect a bias. Notably, I couldn't find a reference to them from outside of their own echo chamber but I'll admit I didn't look very hard.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill

    Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd

  15. #175
    Fanatic Member Delaney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    715

    Re: Democracy

    I didn't find either any reference to covexit.com and IPAK from any serious site (I found only one reference from a french journal named FranceSoir who is anything but serious)
    The best friend of any programmer is a search engine
    "Don't wish it was easier, wish you were better. Don't wish for less problems, wish for more skills. Don't wish for less challenges, wish for more wisdom" (J. Rohn)
    “They did not know it was impossible so they did it” (Mark Twain)

  16. #176
    Fanatic Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    585

    Re: Democracy

    warning

    In Italy the situation is disastrous
    The "prime minister" stated:
    "What has been the environmental ingredient that has favored the recovery of the Italian economy? It's vaccination, the fact that we can work with peace of mind, go out and about, go to school. The vaccine is the only safe way to protect ourselves and our loved ones."

    In Italy there is no democracy.

    GREEN PASS:
    What is it and how to get the Green pass:
    The Covi-19 Green Certification was created to facilitate the safe movement of citizens in the European Union during the COVID-19 pandemic. It certifies that you have had the vaccination or are negative for the test or are cured of COVID-19. The Certification contains a QR Code that allows you to verify its authenticity and validity. The European Commission has created a common technical platform to ensure that the certificates issued by a State can be verified in the 27 EU countries: opens a new window plus Switzerland, Iceland, Norway and Lichtenstein. In Italy, the certification is issued exclusively through the national platform of the Ministry of Health in both digital and printable format. The timing for the transmission of data, and the subsequent generation of the Certification, may vary depending on the type of health service: vaccination, negative test or recovery from Covid-19.

    Green pass and WORKERS:
    Who is lacking, both in public and private work, the green certificate will not be suspended but will be considered "absent without leave until the presentation of certification"

    With the Green pass mandatory in the workplace from next October 15 until December 31.
    Workers, both in the public and private sectors, without a green certificate will not be suspended but will be considered "unjustified absent until the presentation of the certification, without disciplinary consequences and with the right to preservation of employment". But from the first day of absence will no longer receive pay or other compensation or emolument. In practice, those who are not vaccinated retain their jobs but do not take salary.

    The employee caught at work without a pass will be fined between 600 and 1,500 euros. On the other hand, those who do not go to work without a Green Pass will be considered unjustly absent and will have their wages suspended from the first day of absence.



    https://www.lindipendente.online/202...egole-europee/
    "The Italian legislation on the Green Pass seems to be, at first glance, in contradiction with what is established by the European Regulation n. 935/2021, which defines the legal framework for the issuance, verification and acceptance of the Green Certificate, intended as a tool to "facilitate the free movement during the Covid-19 pandemic".

    In this sense, mainly to raise some perplexities are points 14 and 36 of the regulation. In the former, the principle is stated that the Green Pass "should not be understood as facilitating or encouraging the adoption of restrictions on free movement or other fundamental rights in response to the pandemic". In the second, however, is stated the need to "prevent direct or indirect discrimination against individuals who are not vaccinated" including those who, although not unable, have simply "chosen not to be vaccinated. In this sense, it goes on to say, "this Regulation cannot be interpreted as establishing a right or an obligation to vaccinate".

    It is these principles, then, that lead one to think that there may be a contrast between this regulation and the way in which the Green Pass is currently used in our nation. First of all, in fact, discrimination against unvaccinated individuals seems to be present, at least indirectly, in Italy. In this sense, while those who choose to undergo the Covid vaccine must not personally incur any expense to obtain the Green Pass, for those who decide to obtain it through the tampon the issue is quite different. In this regard, although from October 15 will be introduced free swabs for those who can not vaccinate, for all others will still be payment. And even if the rapid antigenic tests will have a lowered price (8 euros for minors and 15 euros for adults), this will still give rise to a not so hidden disparity of treatment between those who decide to undergo the serum and those who refuse, legitimately, to do so.

    In fact, this is a legitimate choice, since at the moment in Italy there is no obligation (if not for health care) to vaccinate against coronavirus. In this sense, as provided by Article 32 of the Constitution, "no one can be obliged to a particular health treatment if not by provision of law", which precisely at the moment there is not. And in this regard, the argument by some, according to which this article would be circumvented by the health pass as it surreptitiously obliges citizens to vaccinate, seems not to be totally wrong in light of the above difference in treatment. This would determine, however, a contrast not only against Article 36 of the European Regulation, which as mentioned provides that it can not justify the establishment of "a right or an obligation to vaccinate", but precisely also against Article 32 of the Constitution. In any case, however, even if you do not want to consider well-founded the hypothesis of the de facto obligation, the contrast with Article 36 would still be there since, as mentioned, it requires the non-discrimination, direct or indirect, of the unvaccinated.

    Finally, with regard to the aforementioned point 14 of the regulation, it must be said that in Italy the restrictions introduced seem to be in contrast with some fundamental rights of our Constitution. The mandatory nature of the pass, as is now known, was in fact extended not only to access to certain services or activities, but also, by special decree law, to university students and school and university staff. This leads us to hypothesize that there may be a conflict with certain articles of the Constitution such as the second, which guarantees the inviolable rights of man, some of which now seem to be subject to the possession of the green certificate.

    For these reasons, therefore, we asked the European Union for clarification through Europe Direct, the service made available by the same to get in touch with it. However, from the answer we were given it emerges that the EU in practice maintains that there is no contradiction between what is established by the European regulation and the Italian legislation. This is because, specifically, "the national use of Covid-19 certificates for other purposes, such as access to events or venues, does not fall within the scope of EU law" and "when Member States decide to use Covid-19 certificates for other purposes, this must be provided for in national law".

    In any case, however, even if the EU's thesis is well-founded, doubts remain about the legitimacy of the use that Italy is making of the Green Pass. As mentioned, in fact, what generates perplexity with regard to the Italian legislation is not only the hypothetical contrast with the European regulation, but also, and above all, the apparent contrast with our Constitution, which remains possible regardless of whether the Green Pass in Italian sauce is, or not, really incompatible with the European legislation."


    Italy could serve as a forerunner or a laboratory for the experimentation of increasingly stringent restrictions that could then be extended to other European or Western countries.
    If there is not enough contrast from the Italians to these iniquities, the possibility that other nations will adopt them could increase.

    I have little confidence in the reaction of the Italian population. The protests here have been much milder than in France (where the situation is a little better).

  17. #177
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    36,574

    Re: Democracy

    The situation does seem better in France, as they made a mandate, then basically were lax on enforcing it. From your description, the Italian version has sharper teeth. What amounted to a 'nudge' in France was enough to get their vaccination rate very high. Yours sounds more punitive.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  



Click Here to Expand Forum to Full Width