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Thread: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

  1. #361

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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    - and there is a funny chap called xiaoyiao doing a commentary for the Chinese channel and everything he says sounds rubbish or non-sequitur and can be safely ignored.
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

  2. #362
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by szlamany View Post
    Compared to the quantity and depth of all these other posts? I thought I needed that many words just to be noticed. And I wasn't noticed, lol!
    Yeah, you got lost in an utter torrent of...what? Just plain ol'....WHAT???

    I didn't want you to think you weren't appreciated, though. My father was a Digital engineer for a large part of his career. He retired from there when they gave him an excellent early retirement package. He still had a lot of stock when Compaq bought out Digital, which made him a whole bunch of money, since they exchanged his Digital stock for Compaq stock at a ratio of 1 share of Compaq plus a wad of cash for each share of Digital. Not sure what happened when HP bought Compaq. I've never asked whether he held onto the Compaq stock and now has HP, or if he sold it all off at some point.
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  3. #363
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    - and there is a funny chap called xiaoyiao doing a commentary for the Chinese channel and everything he says sounds rubbish or non-sequitur and can be safely ignored.
    I think the thread has become a kind of operatic ballet, by this point. Certain actors are performing a dance of remarkable elegance and brutal subtlety, while xiaoyao is providing some harmonic undertones. They are frequently ignored, as harmonies tend to be, yet I feel they have been adding a certain textural richness when they occasionally interact with the dancers in the main theme.

    What's truly elegant about this ballet is the fact that it is being conducted amongst the audience, which occasionally contributes in such a way that it isn't fully clear whether the audience is truly separate from the performers, or a part of them.
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  4. #364

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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    What's truly elegant about this ballet is the fact that it is being conducted amongst the audience, which occasionally contributes in such a way that it isn't fully clear whether the audience is truly separate from the performers, or a part of them.
    Only the best sort of show is capable of this feat.
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

  5. #365
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    So there's this channel on YouTube called Dave's Garage that I watch regularly. He's an old programmer from the Windows NT days that worked on Windows NT, Windows 95 etc. He covers some interesting topics on programming like the history of Windows or programming tricks in C++ etc.

    He started up this challenge to find the fastest programming language and a lot of people got involved. He wrote a C# implementation of Sieve of Eratosthenes, a prime number generator, as a base to benchmark all the different languages.

    What I found interesting, and to be honest, I 100% didn't expect this. There was no submission for VB6. People submitted variations of the original C# version in all manner of languages. There were the typical ones, Java, Python, Swift, Perl, PHP. There were implementations in lesser known languages like Ada, Zig, V, TeX but no VB6. To put it this into perspective, someone even wrote a version in Brain****. When a language like Brain**** gets more notice than real programming language, then you know something is definitely off.

    I mean I totally expected that someone would have submitted a VB6 version right? VB6 was once one of the most popular programming languages in the world. It should have been one of the earliest versions submitted. Something else I found interesting with the two versions were submitted for VB.Net is that the language was referred to as Visual Basic. No attempt was even made to distinguish it from VB6 as if VB6 doesn't even exist. As far as I can tell the challenge is still on going so perhaps someone would remember that VB6 exists and submit one.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is this: You guys might love VB6 and that's fine. But when we are telling you that VB.Net is better, we aren't just saying that. We know it to be true and the world knows it. The reason you guys get all this push back when you claim .Net is inferior to VB6 is because quite frankly we think you're crazy. The things you guys say to prop up your arguments sound crazy. I mean come on, Brain**** get "airtime" before VB6? What does that tell you lol......

    Here is the GitHub link for the challenge:-
    https://github.com/PlummersSoftwareLLC/Primes
    Last edited by Niya; Sep 3rd, 2021 at 02:44 PM.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  6. #366
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    This is the lifecycle policy for the .NET framework: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lif...-net-framework
    "Code is like humor. When you have to explain it, itís bad." - Cory House
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    No VB6 project in Dave's garage is damning.

  8. #368
    PowerPoster wqweto's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    They donít accept VB6 versions in the prime sieve contest ó too fast to judge! )

    Iím currently afk but will write an algorithmicly viable snippet (targeting best C# submission constraints) and post it here so that best optimizers (like Olaf) suck out all remaining airgap before submitting it to github.

    The competition is a bit pointless as the seive generation can *always* be further optimized. I mean if you have a solution with step 2 you can bump the inner loop step to 3 and beat the original one in the long run (mil of iterations). I plan on inspecting C# step they use (e.g. 11) and just go for the next prime (or even further).

  9. #369
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by wqweto View Post
    The competition is a bit pointless as the seive generation can *always* be further optimized.
    It's not meant to be taken as serious as death. It's just a fun thing they are doing for the heck of it. It can be considered semi-serious but nothing to plan your life around. Even Dave acknowledges what you have just said, that it can be optimized further but it's not really about who can produce the fastest sieve but how each language performs with the same implementation.

    TLDR; Don't take it too seriously. It's just programmers having fun.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  10. #370
    PowerPoster wqweto's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    TLDR; Don't take it too seriously. It's just programmers having fun.
    Sure!

    Always fun to get a legacy VB6 solution to top position. This is not meant to compare VB6 vs .Net merits, you know. . . Who would do that! )

  11. #371
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by wqweto View Post
    Sure!

    Always fun to get a legacy VB6 solution to top position. This is not meant to compare VB6 vs .Net merits, you know. . . Who would do that! )
    This particular tangent has nothing to do with the whole .Net/VB6 thing. I just found it very interesting that no one submitted a VB6 version. Even I was completely surprised by this. I expected to at least be an early submission seeing as VB6 was once one of the most popular programming languages in the world. All it's faults aside, I cannot believe that the world forgot about it so quickly. I mean Brain**** got a submission and VB6 didn't? Blew my mind. I mean I knew the world has accepted .Net as it's successor but I had no idea it was this bad.
    Last edited by Niya; Sep 4th, 2021 at 06:27 AM.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  12. #372
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by wqweto View Post
    The competition is a bit pointless as the seive generation can *always* be further optimized.
    Yep...
    FWIW, my first (naive, non-optimized) VB6-version already outperforms the C#-results from the YT-video
    (on a slower CPU than he was using):

    In a Module (or Class):
    Code:
    Option Explicit
    
    Private mB() As Byte, mC As Long
     
    Public Function ReInitSieveAndGetCount(ByVal n As Long) As Long
      ReDim mB(2 To n) 'clear the Sieve
            mC = n \ 2 'init the count of potential primes to half n
      
      Dim i As Long, k As Long
      For i = 3 To CLng(Int(Sqr(n))) Step 2
          If mB(i) = 0 Then
             For k = i * i To n - 1 Step i + i
                 If mB(k) = 0 Then mB(k) = 1: mC = mC - 1
             Next
          End If
      Next
      
      ReInitSieveAndGetCount = mC
    End Function
    Test FormCode:
    Code:
    Option Explicit
    
    Private Sub Form_Click()
      AutoRedraw = True: Cls
      
      Print "Tests are " & IIf(Tests, "Ok.", "failing."); vbLf
     
      Dim i&, Primes&, T!: T = Timer
      
      For i = 1 To 10 ^ 9
          Primes = ReInitSieveAndGetCount(1000000)
          If Timer - T > 5 Then Exit For
      Next
      
      Print Primes, Format(Timer - T, "0.00sec"), i; " passes"
    End Sub
    
    Private Function Tests() As Boolean
      Dim i
      For i = 1 To 8
          If Choose(i, 4, 25, 168, 1229, 9592, 78498, 664579, 5761455) _
          <> ReInitSieveAndGetCount(10 ^ i) Then Exit Function
      Next
      Tests = True
    End Function
    Olaf

  13. #373
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    That could be submitted as an entry but generally each of them is a direct re-implementation of the same algorithm he used in the original C# version. That is the version they are using for head to head comparisons. In his videos he mentions something about that version being a good test a wide variety of features of different programming languages. Like I said, it's not really about who can produce the fastest sieve but which language will execute the same algorithm the fastest. He doesn't know how to code in all these languages which is where the community comes to submit their own versions in languages they are familiar with.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  14. #374
    Hyperactive Member Episcopal's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Well, I only know VB6 as a programming platform. But I literally recognize VB.NET as being superior to VB6 because it's newer, as Microsoft wouldn't release a replacement product, this being inferior to the first.

    My dismay with VB.NET is that it's also been discontinued, as even Niya said he's going to use C#.

    Now when it comes to tools, everyone uses what they have and what they know. I know Java is cross-platform, but since I don't know how to use it, I'll have to use VINE.

  15. #375
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Episcopal View Post
    My dismay with VB.NET is that it's also been discontinued
    Thankfully the impact won't be nearly as disastrous as when MS abandoned VB6. For one thing, the fact that VB6 still works in 2020, even though it's quite rickety, is a testament to Microsoft's commitment to preserving older technologies. Secondly, the real power is in the Framework, Visual Studio itself and the surrounding eco-system like NuGet packages and such. All of those are very much alive. It's just one language that going to die a slow death.

    Though I've always believed that C# is a more elegant language than VB and going there was inevitable anyway, my main motivation for leaving it behind so early is that I can't use it in Microsoft's newer technologies like Blazor. If they brought VB into these domains, I would stick with it for the mere reason that I'm just more comfortable writing code in it due to 20+ years of muscle memory.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  16. #376
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Episcopal View Post
    My dismay with VB.NET is that it's also been discontinued, as even Niya said he's going to use C#.
    Yeah? Show it. People have been predicting this for well over a decade. As far as I can see, everybody is reading the MS statement that they aren't going to stuff everything they can think of into the language as proof that they are going to abandon it. That may be correct, but I have yet to see any statement to that effect from MS, and without that, I rather like the direction they are going.
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  17. #377
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Yeah? Show it. People have been predicting this for well over a decade. As far as I can see, everybody is reading the MS statement that they aren't going to stuff everything they can think of into the language as proof that they are going to abandon it. That may be correct, but I have yet to see any statement to that effect from MS, and without that, I rather like the direction they are going.
    Microsoft is not going to outright murder it. VB.Net is going to die a death by a thousand cuts. I think you're underestimating the huge impact not including VB in their newest technologies will have. People aren't going to be writing WinForm and WPF applications forever. Based on the direction MS is heading with .Net, it's going to be some kind of crazy HTML world where desktop apps would have their UIs written using web technologies so they can be easily ported between platforms. Who knows where they will head from there but we can be sure that it won't be the Windows Desktop where VB has the strongest support. WinForms and WPF are basically on life support and have been for some time. It's just a matter of time before these technologies fade away. It's a damn shame too. WPF is one of the best UI technologies I have ever seen come out of Microsoft.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  18. #378
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Speaking of WPF. I wish I had a lot of spare time. I wouldn't mind taking a crack at writing a WPF-esque layout engine for TwinBASIC. TwinBASIC is ripe for something like that.

    Hmmm....I wonder if I can do a proto-type of such a system? I think I might do that as a side project some day.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    Speaking of WPF. I wish I had a lot of spare time. I wouldn't mind taking a crack at writing a WPF-esque layout engine for TwinBASIC. TwinBASIC is ripe for something like that.

    Hmmm....I wonder if I can do a proto-type of such a system? I think I might do that as a side project some day.
    There is already a WpfDesigner in Sharpdevelop, I don't believe you can make a better alternative than it.

    If you spend more time reading the excellent .NET open source code instead of chattering about some knowledge that almost everyone knows in the VB6 sub-forum, then others may be able to find something valuable in your comments.

  20. #380
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    For anyone else watching this. I'm not doing this to be mean. I don't fault anyone for not knowing things. I certainly don't know everything. But when you're ignorant and you have a high and mighty, borderline disrespectful attitude along with this, this is the treatment I'm going to give you. I'm going to mock you until the gods take me. I will never take this dude seriously ever again.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  21. #381

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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Niya, that picking on SDO was unpleasant to read and I think that's too much interpersonal attacking now. That's not right for this forum. Niya you are showing your nastier side and it is unpleasant for the world to see it. So, I am going to report that plethora of digging posts and ask you to stop.
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

  22. #382
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    Niya you are showing your nastier side and it is unpleasant for the world to see it.
    I grew up around thieves, drug dealers and killers. I've seen people shot in front of me. You have no idea how nasty I really am. I make no apologies for any of it. We can have a heated discussion but if you make it personal, I have no problem showing pieces of my true nature.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  23. #383

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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Well, you should. You let yourself down by all that childish digging, you made yourself look less of a man while you did it and when SDO responded gracefully he made himself look like the better person.

    Niya, you clearly have a bit of a problem, and when you go manic like that you tell us who you really are.

    Picking on someone is childish and doing it in writing is trolling. You need to redact those unpleasant threads and act like a man and not a petulant teen. One of those posts would have been sufficient and perhaps funny, taking time to do several shows that you don't know when to stop...

    - but in truth, we knew that anyway.
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

  24. #384
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    Well, you should. You let yourself down by all that childish digging, you made yourself look less of a man while you did it and when SDO responded gracefully he made himself look like the better person.

    Niya, you clearly have a bit of a problem, and when you go manic like that you tell us who you really are.

    Picking on someone is childish and doing it in writing is trolling. You need to redact those unpleasant threads and act like a man and not a petulant teen. One of those posts would have been sufficient and perhaps funny, taking time to do several shows that you don't know when to stop...

    - but in truth, we knew that anyway.
    I can live with that.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  25. #385

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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    You think no one here knows I'm a little crazy?
    Well, now I do. This thread was created as an outlet for this sort of chat to prevent it spilling into other threads, avoiding those non sequitur rants.

    It has shown a little more than I expected. Perhaps Niya, you could assume you have done your bit, stated your position in writing and that you don't need to do any more.

    You might need to raise the level of respect you give to others. I always try to do the same. I occasionally slip and make mistakes, just like everyone.
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

  26. #386
    Administrator Steve R Jones's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Thank you all for shopping at WalMart

  27. #387
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    I'm going to mock you until the gods take me.
    If that's what you want, just say so.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

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