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Thread: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

  1. #161
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    I think I already answered your question in post#131
    I didn't understand that post. You'll have to state that one again, because I still can't understand that reply.
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    Fanatic Member Delaney's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    I would act as the commentator and give a commentary on the battle so far but it is difficult to do on a post by post basis.

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  3. #163
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Awww dang, too bad this is in Chit-Chat... that deserves to be repped...

    -tg
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  4. #164
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    I'm a bit surprised that this has turned into a discussion of the IDE. I have long believed that the IDE was the WORST part of VB6. The language itself is pretty good and pretty complete, but that IDE is painful to use. You don't have pages, you can't collapse anything, the outlining barely exists, and on and on. It was fine it it's day, but by now it's pretty hard to tolerate.

    On the other hand, I work with somebody who felt that VB6 was a bit too complicated, so he wrote his own language to make programming simpler and easy to use. He also wrote something that transpiles into VB.NET, and possibly JS (I've only seen the VB.NET output, but I think he said it would produce JS). So, everybody has their own opinion on any language.
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I didn't understand that post. You'll have to state that one again, because I still can't understand that reply.
    IMO, examples that meet the following conditions are persuasive:
    (1) It is desktop-app
    (2) It is not from Microsoft
    (3) It has sufficient industry visibility
    (4) It has sufficient technical difficulty
    (5) It is a huge challenge or an impossible task for VB6 developers.
    (6) In addition, if its development efficiency is much higher than that of VB6 (that is, the development cycle or development cost is much lower than VB6), it is also an important characteristic that is sufficiently convincing.

    Of course, for me, the most convincing example is the following example:
    The way to prove that .NET is better than VB6 is actually very simple:
    (1) When people here are looking forward to the new VB6-Compiler and new VB6-IDE, someone posted the link of an excellent new VB6-Compiler written in C#/VB.NET or the new VB6-IDE developed in C#/VB.NET
    (2) When I was developing Spread, someone posted a link to a better Spread developed in C#/VB.NET
    (3) When I was about to try to develop a CodeEditor with VB6, someone posted a link to a high-performance and highly scalable CodeEditor developed in C#/VB.NET

  6. #166
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I'm a bit surprised that this has turned into a discussion of the IDE. I have long believed that the IDE was the WORST part of VB6. The language itself is pretty good and pretty complete, but that IDE is painful to use. You don't have pages, you can't collapse anything, the outlining barely exists, and on and on. It was fine it it's day, but by now it's pretty hard to tolerate.

    On the other hand, I work with somebody who felt that VB6 was a bit too complicated, so he wrote his own language to make programming simpler and easy to use. He also wrote something that transpiles into VB.NET, and possibly JS (I've only seen the VB.NET output, but I think he said it would produce JS). So, everybody has their own opinion on any language.
    Yes. So I will not persuade others to use the development tools I like. If other people want to persuade me to leave the development tool I like, then please come up with a case that convinces me. The most convincing case is to use .NET to develop a better VB6 (Compiler+IDE), namely VB6.NET or VB6.Next or RadBasic.

    In addition, if a person or a company (not Microsoft) uses .NET to develop a better code editor than VSCode, then this is also a persuasive case. (Because VB6 can hardly complete such work)

    We make the disputed issue specific so that we don't have to say different things.
    Last edited by SearchingDataOnly; Aug 26th, 2021 at 10:04 AM.

  7. #167
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    IMO, examples that meet the following conditions are persuasive:
    (1) It is desktop-app
    (2) It is not from Microsoft
    (3) It has sufficient industry visibility
    (4) It has sufficient technical difficulty
    (5) It is a huge challenge or an impossible task for VB6 developers.
    (6) In addition, if its development efficiency is much higher than that of VB6 (that is, the development cycle or development cost is much lower than VB6), it is also an important characteristic that is sufficiently convincing.

    Of course, for me, the most convincing example is the following example:
    Persuasive to what end? Who is being persuaded, and what are they being persuaded about? You asked for examples, you got examples. I didn't realize they were suppose to persuade anybody of anything, so I don't know how fit to purpose they are.

    I am writing something that fits all your criteria aside from 3 (at this point). It is desktop, it's not from Microsoft, I have no idea what technical difficulty is sufficient though this probably has it, it would be a huge challenge in ANY language (based on the numerous failures). As for item #6, that can't be measured for any program that meets the other criteria, so that one is hopeless. If it is difficult, has high visibility, and would be a huge challenge for VB6 developers, then being able to evaluate the development cycle or development cost would be necessarily impossible. The only way you could compare those two would be if you had two teams with equal skill, both working on the same (necessarily large) technically difficult solution. That would be terrific, but nobody has ever been able to do that, nor is it likely that anybody will have the money and time to do that.
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Persuasive to what end? Who is being persuaded, and what are they being persuaded about? You asked for examples, you got examples. I didn't realize they were suppose to persuade anybody of anything, so I don't know how fit to purpose they are.

    I am writing something that fits all your criteria aside from 3 (at this point). It is desktop, it's not from Microsoft, I have no idea what technical difficulty is sufficient though this probably has it, it would be a huge challenge in ANY language (based on the numerous failures). As for item #6, that can't be measured for any program that meets the other criteria, so that one is hopeless. If it is difficult, has high visibility, and would be a huge challenge for VB6 developers, then being able to evaluate the development cycle or development cost would be necessarily impossible. The only way you could compare those two would be if you had two teams with equal skill, both working on the same (necessarily large) technically difficult solution. That would be terrific, but nobody has ever been able to do that, nor is it likely that anybody will have the money and time to do that.
    Maybe post #166 is more specific.

    Let's put it this way, most old VB6ers are developing desktop-app. VB6 is sufficient for the development of any desktop-app. If RC6 is used, VB6 can also be competent for modern desktop-app development (including some web development). Therefore, there is no point in persuading users (mainly the old VB6ers) in the VB6 sub-forums to give up VB6. They will almost certainly not choose .NET (especially VB.NET). Therefore, in the VB6 sub-forum, any discussion about a language/tool being better than another language/tool is meaningless.

    Now, I, an old VB6er plan to develop a new project, is to develop a product similar to VSCode or VB6-IDE. If anyone can prove that .NET is a better tool for developing such products, then please convince me. If not, then I'll still try with VB6, then please stop laughing at the development tools I use, and let me finish my work quietly.

    This is all I want to express.

  9. #169
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    I want to ask a stupid question: Is MATLAB developed with .NET? Is PhotoShop developed using .NET?

  10. #170
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by PlausiblyDamp View Post
    Have you installed and used sharpdevelop to get a fair comparison between what it does and what you think it does? Out of the box it does far more than the VB6 IDE does, although being based on .Net I am sure you will find an irrational reason to dislike it. If you are asking for examples of Desktop Apps written in .Net and then either discounting them (VS, SQL Manager, Paint.Net) or dismissing them (SharpDevelop) because then what you really seem to be saying is that because .Net is involved and you have a loyalty to VB6 you will never be convinced, by anyone. Ever.
    This dude is all up in his feelings. Don't waste your time trying to have an objective discussion with him. He was trolling us all this time. To my shame it took me a while to catch on.

    At the end of the day, just look around. Barely anyone outside of this forum cares about VB6. Yesterday I was researching something completely unrelated to any of this and ran into a comment about VB6. It came up in a question or something and someone responded straight up that VB6 is crap. No one even bothered to challenge that. No arguments. Nothing. My point is, this fella here is being willfully ignorant. We don't need to tell him anything because the truth is, this forum is one of the very few places this topic would actually be considered legitimate. Most other places, people would think they are crazy and if he doesn't know that then he is being willfully ignorant just to justify his feelings. I'd stop trying to have a fruitful discussion with this dude if I were you.
    Last edited by Niya; Aug 26th, 2021 at 10:52 AM.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

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  11. #171

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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    So much expressing going on, we'll be covered in it before long.
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

  12. #172
    PowerPoster techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I'm a bit surprised that this has turned into a discussion of the IDE. I have long believed that the IDE was the WORST part of VB6. The language itself is pretty good and pretty complete, but that IDE is painful to use. You don't have pages, you can't collapse anything, the outlining barely exists, and on and on. It was fine it it's day, but by now it's pretty hard to tolerate.

    On the other hand, I work with somebody who felt that VB6 was a bit too complicated, so he wrote his own language to make programming simpler and easy to use. He also wrote something that transpiles into VB.NET, and possibly JS (I've only seen the VB.NET output, but I think he said it would produce JS). So, everybody has their own opinion on any language.
    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    Yes. So I will not persuade others to use the development tools I like. If other people want to persuade me to leave the development tool I like, then please come up with a case that convinces me. The most convincing case is to use .NET to develop a better VB6 (Compiler+IDE), namely VB6.NET or VB6.Next or RadBasic.

    In addition, if a person or a company (not Microsoft) uses .NET to develop a better code editor than VSCode, then this is also a persuasive case. (Because VB6 can hardly complete such work)

    We make the disputed issue specific so that we don't have to say different things.
    So.... this has been all about the IDE... not about the language itself.

    -tg
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  13. #173
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    So.... this has been all about the IDE... not about the language itself.

    -tg
    It's about where ever his feelings take him.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    So.... this has been all about the IDE... not about the language itself.

    -tg
    To some extent it has to do with language. This is why I want to see some famous desktop-apps developed by .NET. If there are many famous desktop-apps developed with .NET, then maybe I'll consider C# as the development language instead of VB6. Therefore, my topic is also indirectly related to language.

  15. #175
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    This dude is all up in his feelings. Don't waste your time trying to have an objective discussion with him. He was trolling us all this time. To my shame it took me a while to catch on.
    No, he is not trolling. He just has his views, and they don't start in English, so they don't always translate well.

    This is perhaps the best, and nearly the only, resource for VB5/6 developers, and that's great. I'm not thrilled with the pissing match, but that has always happened between programming languages. Still, VB6 is still viable for people.
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    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Also, if anyone thinks that my views are backed by emotions and not objective analysis, I should point out that even to this day, I still put a lot of effort into helping VB6 programmers wherever I feel I can add a little value. For example, I spent like half a day on just this question trying my best to make sure this person got what he wanted. I spent even more time in his follow up thread.

    I honest don't care what anyone likes to use. But stay in your lane. If you comment about things you know nothing about and it's misleading, disingenuous or a straight up lie, I will call it out every single time. A lot of people come here looking for information and if I see anyone making out VB6 to be something it's not or making out .Net to be something it's not, I am going to challenge it, every single time I see it. Not for your sake but for the sake of any innocent person looking to be well informed. If that rubs anyone the wrong way, then too bad. I don't care about your feelings. I'm dealing with facts not feelings.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Paste one of my opinions about VB6 as a data backup:

    IMO, there are two kinds of VB6 in the world

    (1) VB6-1998:
    The main technologies used by people who use VB6-1998 are: UserControl, Win-APIs, Subclass, DAO, ADO, Access, SQLServer. Some people use Html, XML, and VBScript in small amounts. These people mainly use VB6-1998 to develop and maintain some old Win-Apps.

    (2) VB6-2020 (it is 100% compatible with VB6-1998):
    In addition to using all the technologies of VB6-1998, the main technologies used by people who use VB6-2020 are: RC5/RC6, ActionScript, Hash-Table, Sqlite (including MemDB), Cairo, Html5, WebKit, WebView, JS-Libs , WebServer, Ngnix, VBFastCGI, JSON, XML, Serialization/Deserialization, Web-APIs, OpenUI5, SPA. These people mainly use VB6-2020 to develop modern Win-Apps and transform old Win-Apps.

    Not only many people use VB6-2020 for life, but many people use VB6-1998 for life.
    There is no common topic between VB.NET developers and VB6 developers.
    Similarly, there is no common topic between VB6-2020 developers and VB6-1998 developers.

  18. #178
    Fanatic Member Delaney's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    I want to ask a stupid question: Is MATLAB developed with .NET? Is PhotoShop developed using .NET?
    Photoshop is developed in C++ and Matlab in C, C++, Fortran and Java so what is the purpose of the question ? to show that it is not developed in .net ? fine they are not. They are also not developed in VB6 so?

    I don't understand very well you position, You want to code in VB6, fine, do it. No one will try to forbid you to do it. Of course VB6 is the best for you, you master this language. As VB.net is the best for me because I have more experience in it than in an other languages.

    The language you master is always the best for you but not necessarily the best for the application you want to do. I have to learn Labview and do my application with it because a device I need to control accept only this language so for it, it's the best not necessarily for me as I have everything to learn.
    Last edited by Delaney; Aug 26th, 2021 at 11:30 AM.
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  19. #179
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    This is perhaps the best, and nearly the only, resource for VB5/6 developers, and that's great. I'm not thrilled with the pissing match, but that has always happened between programming languages. Still, VB6 is still viable for people.
    I have zero problem with any of this. None whatsoever. My problem is the seething contempt they have for Microsoft for abandoning VB6 that leads them to spread a lot of misinformation.

    I remember very clearly what motivated me the first time I got involved in this whole VB6/VB.Net thing. It was an off hand comment Dilettante made some 9 years ago. He said a bunch of things related to .Net that I knew for a fact were not true. I also noticed that a lot of VB6 programmers over the years spread a lot of misinformation about .Net and a lot of it is motivated by that feeling of abandonment by Microsoft. I don't think this is right and think it should be challenged for the benefit of anyone looking for information.

    I think I have said this before. One of the main things that prevented me from moving to VB.Net from VB6 was reading a lot of misinformation from hardcore VB6 fans. When I actually made the move, I was utterly shocked that none of the horror stories I heard were true. VB.Net turned out to be a superb successor to VB6. This is why I will always challenge nonsense when I see it. Somebody might come onto these forums seeking information much like I did long ago and I'd like for them to get the truth or at the very least, something very close to it based on objective thinking.

    My thing is. You don't have to use .Net. Use whatever you want. But don't talk trash it. If you want to tell people that VB6 is better and .Net is trash, I'll be more than happy to tell you why the opposite is true and history is on my side.
    Last edited by Niya; Aug 26th, 2021 at 11:30 AM.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Delaney View Post
    Photoshop is developed in C++ and Matlab in C, C++, Fortran and Java
    Thank you for your answers.

    I guess they all use C, C++ (maybe including Java), but I didn't expect MATLAB to use Fortran.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delaney View Post
    so what is the purpose of the question ? to show that it is not developed in .net ? fine they are not. They are also not developed in VB6 so?
    It shows from another aspect that .NET has no obvious advantage over VB6 in developing desktop software.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delaney View Post
    I don't understand very well you position, You want to code in VB6, fine, do it. No one will try to forbid you to do it. Of course VB6 is the best for you, you master this language. As VB.net is the best for me because I have more experience in it than in an other languages.

    The language you master is always the best for you but not necessarily the best for the application you want to do. I have to learn Labview and do my application with it because a device I need to control accept only this language so for it, it's the best not necessarily for me as I have everything to learn.
    Maybe this paragraph of yours should be told to another person.
    Last edited by SearchingDataOnly; Aug 26th, 2021 at 11:34 AM.

  21. #181
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    No, he is not trolling. He just has his views, and they don't start in English, so they don't always translate well.
    Errr......I gave him the benefit of the doubt long enough. He is trying to tie us up in knots by jumping from one place to the next without any logical reason to other than to get us to trip over ourselves. It's an old tactic I've seen many times. People interested in genuine discussion don't do this.

    Look at how Olaf approaches this. He stays on point and answers any challenge directly, many times with code or other articles to aid his argument. It's one of the reasons I still have great respect for him despite how much we might disagree.
    Last edited by Niya; Aug 26th, 2021 at 11:41 AM.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  22. #182
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    And to be honest, the only real thing I disagree with Olaf on is that VB6 is this super great product that can do no wrong. VB6 was good in it's day, but if you promote it over it's modern equivalents, I will challenge that.

    I've concede many debates to him over the years owing to his greater knowledge on many subjects but on the topic of VB6 being better than .Net in anyway is not one I will ever concede on. We will disagree on that to the end of time.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  23. #183
    PowerPoster techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    Thank you for your answers.

    I guess they all use C, C++ (maybe including Java), but I didn't expect MATLAB to use Fortran.


    It shows from another aspect that .NET has no obvious advantage over VB6 in developing desktop software.


    Maybe this paragraph of yours should be told to another person.
    By that same token... since it wasn't written in VB6, it shows from another aspect that VB6 holds no obvious advantage over VB.NET in developing software. C/C++ FTW!

    Just because N wasn't written in Y language, but rather in Z, doesn't mean that X language is superior or that Y is inferior... It doesn't mean that Y is superior either.

    -tg
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  24. #184
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    My problem is the seething contempt they have for Microsoft for abandoning VB6 that leads them to spread a lot of misinformation.
    Yeah. In the end, that's what grates on me, too. I try not to react to it, because it is so often done just for the reaction, but I've said before, and will surely say again, humans are tribal animals. We always find a way to choose a tribe and vilify the out group. Programmers are at least as bad at that as everybody else. People who use terms like Windoze, VB.Fred, and so on, are doing so to signal their tribal affiliations. It's grating, but it happens.

    However, what concerns me is if the anger they have towards MS for abandoning them causes them to cling to something else that will end up hurting them worse. Anybody who says, "anything but Microsoft" has a chance of getting burned even worse if they adhere to something solely because it is not Microsoft, and that thing ends up failing them. I'd like to see TwinBASIC succeed, but I wouldn't hitch my wagon to that horse.
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    By that same token... since it wasn't written in VB6, it shows from another aspect that VB6 holds no obvious advantage over VB.NET in developing software. C/C++ FTW!

    Just because N wasn't written in Y language, but rather in Z, doesn't mean that X language is superior or that Y is inferior... It doesn't mean that Y is superior either.

    -tg
    I'm tired of endless debates. A lot of what I said was deleted by the moderator. I now recall and rewrite it again:
    If you are only engaged in some common development work (such as database-CRUD, UI, enterprise management software, etc.), then no matter you use VB6, Delphi, C++, Java, .NET, PowerBuilder, you can successfully complete your Work.
    However, if you are engaged in some extremely difficult work, then using the language you are most familiar with was undoubtedly the right choice.

  26. #186
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    Errr......I gave him the benefit of the doubt long enough. He is trying to tie us up in knots by jumping from one place to the next without any logical reason to other than to get us to trip over ourselves. It's an old tactic I've seen many times. People interested in genuine discussion don't do this.

    Look at how Olaf approaches this. He stays on point and answers any challenge directly, many times with code or other articles to aid his argument. It's one of the reasons I still have great respect for him despite how much we might disagree.
    It doesn't matter. He isn't trolling.

    Olaf has gotten better and better over the years, something I really appreciate about him. We don't all improve.
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  27. #187
    Frenzied Member PlausiblyDamp's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    Thank you for your answers.

    I guess they all use C, C++ (maybe including Java), but I didn't expect MATLAB to use Fortran.



    It shows from another aspect that .NET has no obvious advantage over VB6 in developing desktop software.



    Maybe this paragraph of yours should be told to another person.
    I guess it is a case of the right tool for the job, FORTRAN is designed with numeric, mathematical, and statistical problems in mind.

    This also proves there is no advantage in VB6 over .Net in developing desktop software, or perhaps being more honest - it proves absolutely nothing at all about VB6 or .Net in developing desktop software.

    I am going to get picky in fact, .Net isn't just VB.Net and C#, if you are doing very computational based software F# (https://fsharp.org/ ) is designed with this domain in mind and is also a .Net language. So if anything it might prove .Net , F# specifically, is better suited for this kind of desktop application than VB6.

  28. #188
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    And to be honest, the only real thing I disagree with Olaf on is that VB6 is this super great product that can do no wrong. VB6 was good in it's day, but if you promote it over it's modern equivalents, I will challenge that.

    I've concede many debates to him over the years owing to his greater knowledge on many subjects but on the topic of VB6 being better than .Net in anyway is not one I will ever concede on. We will disagree on that to the end of time.
    If you don't say something rude to Olaf, then no one here cares what your opinion is, and no one will argue with you. We want to hear more of Olaf's comments in threads, but because of your presence (and launching a lot of personal attacks), he was often kicked out of the threads. When moderators delete insulting comments, they often delete some very valuable comments. (Actually, I rarely saw Olaf made excessive comments, but moderators often delete the comments from both sides of the debate)
    Last edited by Shaggy Hiker; Aug 26th, 2021 at 12:36 PM. Reason: woooof.

  29. #189
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    It shows from another aspect that .NET has no obvious advantage over VB6 in developing desktop software.
    That's not logically true, as TG pointed out, but it's also irrelevant. Ultimately, I used VB6 for years. I do prefer .NET, and moved there because it did something that VB6 did not, which was allow me to write programs for PDAs. Of course, PDAs went extinct, but it WAS the reason I moved over, since VB6 applications couldn't run on them. Still, there is one indisputable advantage that .NET has over VB6: It is being supported and improved, and is being supported and improved by one of the largest companies in the world today.
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  30. #190
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by PlausiblyDamp View Post
    I guess it is a case of the right tool for the job, FORTRAN is designed with numeric, mathematical, and statistical problems in mind.

    This also proves there is no advantage in VB6 over .Net in developing desktop software, or perhaps being more honest - it proves absolutely nothing at all about VB6 or .Net in developing desktop software.

    I am going to get picky in fact, .Net isn't just VB.Net and C#, if you are doing very computational based software F# (https://fsharp.org/ ) is designed with this domain in mind and is also a .Net language. So if anything it might prove .Net , F# specifically, is better suited for this kind of desktop application than VB6.
    I'm tired of endless debates. A lot of what I said was deleted by the moderator. I now recall and rewrite it again:

    If you are only engaged in some common development work (such as database-CRUD, UI, enterprise management software, etc.), then no matter you use VB6, Delphi, C++, Java, .NET, PowerBuilder, you can successfully complete your Work.
    However, if you are engaged in some extremely difficult work, then using the language you are most familiar with was undoubtedly the right choice.


    In addition, I can write very complex applications in VB6, but obviously you can't. But maybe you can use .NET to write very complex applications, such as SharpDevelop, right?

    Are you still looking for desktop-apps that better reflects the powerful features of .NET?
    Last edited by SearchingDataOnly; Aug 26th, 2021 at 12:44 PM.

  31. #191
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    If you don't say something rude to Olaf, then no one here cares what your opinion is, and no one will argue with you. We want to hear more of Olaf's comments in threads, but because of your presence (and launching a lot of personal attacks), he was often kicked out of the threads. When moderators delete insulting comments, they often delete some very valuable comments. (Actually, I rarely saw Olaf made excessive comments, but moderators often delete the comments from both sides of the debate)
    Can someone tell me what this person is talking about here?
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  32. #192
    Frenzied Member PlausiblyDamp's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    However, if you are engaged in some extremely difficult work, then using the language you are most familiar with was undoubtedly the right choice.
    Not always, if the language you know best doesn't suit the problem domain then you will spend a lot of time battling the language limitations. Choosing the correct language is part of the development process. After all if you know VB6 best and you are needing to build a client side web app you will be a lot more productive by switching to a language that allows client side development.


    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    Are you still looking for desktop-apps that better reflects the powerful features of .NET?
    No. Every example someone has given, you have dismissed. Yet you haven't given any examples of "famous" desktop software written in VB6. It has become a pointless argument.

  33. #193
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    That's not logically true, as TG pointed out, but it's also irrelevant. Ultimately, I used VB6 for years. I do prefer .NET, and moved there because it did something that VB6 did not, which was allow me to write programs for PDAs. Of course, PDAs went extinct, but it WAS the reason I moved over, since VB6 applications couldn't run on them. Still, there is one indisputable advantage that .NET has over VB6: It is being supported and improved, and is being supported and improved by one of the largest companies in the world today.
    A lot of what I said was deleted by the moderator. I now recall and rewrite it again:

    If you are only engaged in some common development work (such as database-CRUD, UI, enterprise management software, etc.), then no matter you use VB6, Delphi, C++, Java, .NET, PowerBuilder, you can successfully complete your Work.
    However, if you are engaged in some extremely difficult work (such as developing an IDE), then using the language you are most familiar with was undoubtedly the right choice.


    At this time, copy/paste is a very useful way.
    Last edited by SearchingDataOnly; Aug 26th, 2021 at 12:55 PM.

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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by PlausiblyDamp View Post
    Not always, if the language you know best doesn't suit the problem domain then you will spend a lot of time battling the language limitations. Choosing the correct language is part of the development process. After all if you know VB6 best and you are needing to build a client side web app you will be a lot more productive by switching to a language that allows client side development.




    No. Every example someone has given, you have dismissed. Yet you haven't given any examples of "famous" desktop software written in VB6. It has become a pointless argument.
    I can write very complex applications in VB6, but obviously you can't. But maybe you can use .NET to write very complex applications, such as SharpDevelop, right?

  35. #195
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by PlausiblyDamp View Post
    No. Every example someone has given, you have dismissed. Yet you haven't given any examples of "famous" desktop software written in VB6. It has become a pointless argument.
    Shaggy disagrees with me on this but I believe this dude is trolling. You aren't going to get anywhere with reasonable debate.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  36. #196

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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    At least while you lot are here, you aren't polluting the other threads.

    I gave them this thread...
    Let them run free I say.
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

  37. #197
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    Shaggy disagrees with me on this but I believe this dude is trolling. You aren't going to get anywhere with reasonable debate.
    I agree with you. I could only go in circles so many times.
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  38. #198
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    I'm not suggesting that people aren't going in circles, and I'm not suggesting that this is going to go anywhere useful to anybody, I'm just saying that SDO isn't trolling. I believe he's as honest in his beliefs, and as clear, as his understanding and the language translation allows. He's not saying anything to get a rise out of you.
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  39. #199
    Fanatic Member Delaney's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    At least while you lot are here, you aren't polluting the other threads.

    I gave them this thread...
    Let them run free I say.
    it still looks like a contest of whoever has the biggest **** (replace the star with whatever you want : brain, coding experience, best application, best language, etc.) and it goes nowhere. You opened a not so funny Pandora box
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  40. #200
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    At least while you lot are here, you aren't polluting the other threads.

    I gave them this thread...
    Let them run free I say.
    That's great. What are we going to do about the rest of the internet though.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/programming...uined_my_life/

    Perhaps we should trade this guy for me. I'm sure you'd love him. He has the stones to say what I would never because I was more concerned with being diplomatic....No more of that though...
    There are many reasons to hate the old versions of VB. Particularly, VB6 was complete and utter trash. It had a crummy IDE, crummy controls, and encouraged a lot of bad programming practices by making it easier to understand for programming noobs like engineers. VB6 was the language for non-programmers, and the engineer (or specialist) basically did this:

    Hey, excel is really cool! I can make really complicated formulas!

    Hmm, my formulas aren't powerful enough. I heard about this VBA thing and I found some examples, maybe I can use that.

    Holy crap VBA is powerful! I can do anything!

    Hmm, I need to run multiple threads and have a better UI. Maybe I can try this VB6, it has basically the same IDE!

    Holy **** forms and controls are awesome! I can do anything!

    This, of course translates into lots of large, complicated, domain-specific programs written in a rather old environment by people who pieced programming together via google. It doesn't really "grow the brand" with the CS crowd.

    However, Microsoft has really knocked it out of the park with the support for VB.NET. You can write excellent code very easily and still have it be understandable. I have a few things I dislike (particularly having to dimension all arrays to Size-1 and the ReDim Preserve statement), but overall it's excellent. It's also easier to teach to a first time computer user.

    The current VB-stigma is on it's previous bad programs (VB6), and VB.NET continues to have a negative reputation. There are several good articles (which I can't find any of, but there was one titled something like "C# developers must jettison their elitism") on the subject, which might be of use. All of that being said, I program in VB.NET daily after doing C# for a year or two and I'd never go back. There are so many features at the IDE-level that are just so nice to have. Automatic formating, case insensitivity, and better intellisense (pre VS2008 SP1) that most C# developers don't realize they're missing.
    You couldn't do multithreading in VB6 without some really crazy API hacks that nixed the step-through debugger. VB6 was basically single-threaded COM glue.
    I have had the pleasure of replacing a horrible vb6 program with a happy python program.

    Python is easier to use and program in than visual basic, and it doesn't seem to encourage mashing the keyboard in order to make working programs.

    There isn't three types of null value in python, and you can also iterate through keys in collections and test for the existance of a key

    You also get error handling and error reporting (with line numbers :O )

    People don't hate vb because beginners can use it, people hate vb because it's a horrible language to use.

    Anything you can write in visual basic you can write cleaner, simpler and with less effort in python.
    This one is directed at BASIC in general but I happen to agree with it despite my love for VB.Net.
    Exactly. I can't read VB. I'm not even kidding. It just this obtuse, wall of text. Apart from the syntax differences (SomeType SomeMethod(T a, T b) we have SomeMethod(a As T, b As T) As SomeType) what really drives me crazy is the fact That Everything You Read Is Capitalized Which Makes It Hard To Quickly Find Context And Figure Out What Is Important Because Apparently Everything Is.

    Not to mention that a lot of just plain bad code is written in VB.

    Sure the clergy is pissed, but not just for philosophical reasons.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/visualbasic..._download_vb6/

    I used VB6 for a long time and wrote several database based applications. The problem that I had moving forward from VB6 was that it was not a object oriented language. So from a historical "might have to work on that some day" type learning experience, it's not bad, but I doubt there is anyone in the real world using VB6 today so unless you are programming in Fortran or programming some old PLCs or something that isn't object oriented, it's not going to do much for you.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/visualbasic...generation_of/

    I knew that there were poor souls out there who still have to maintain VB6 applications because there are no will and resources for a rewrite, but I wasn't aware that anyone was masochistic enough to voluntarily use it for new development.
    In my job I maintain about ~500,000 lines of legacy VB6, but my experience with .Net has been the complete opposite.

    I (now) much prefer to work with VB.Net/C# and the vast .Net library/ecosystem than with VB6. I'll take an object bound .Net DataGridView over an Xarray/TrueDBGrid abomination (for a concrete example) any day of the week.

    I used to hate VB.Net, but that was because I was still writing the VB6 way (using arrays instead of Lists; being unfamiliar with the vast .Net library; not using reflection; etc. Just having Linq saves a ton of repetitive code and often makes figuring out what's going on much simpler...) As for speed, I've yet to see something that VB6 can do that can't be done just as fast in .Net. If you have one of those "slow and buggy" example, please post it.
    I understand that you love VB6, and that is great. So we can be assured here that I am not going to convince you that .NET is better, just the same you can't convince me that VB6 is better.

    That being said, lets be realistic here. I get that you are trying to find the "coolest looking" VB6 project to try to showcase to make your case, so you pick some 3D game type program written in "VB". What you really are showing is VB tapping into DirectX which is written in C/C++. I see some other shadercompiler.dll likely also written in C that looks to be a dependency on the project. I don't have the VB6 IDE so I am looking through the code files in notepad.

    So while this may be a nice thing to say "look what VB can do". All you are saying is "VB can use DirectX", and a pretty old version of DX at that. This doesn't really make a good case to continue using VB6 at all.
    C++ can also use "machine code"... how exactly is VB6 faster?

    Better, C++ actually has support so that you can put inline assembly (readable and understandable) in the source code. VB6 has to use a bad kludge with byte arrays that's unreadable and has to be created outside the code... It's not exactly VB6 anymore, is it?

    I don't understand why you VB6 power users don't just get together and write the new "Open Source VB6++" from scratch using the current VB6. You already have a native compiler, the rest can't be that hard... not when you have the power of VB6!
    So you understand that the vast .Net library is an advantage... no need to go looking for a BigInteger class, there's one built-in. Oddly, it seems VB6 always needs something else to shine: DirectX, "inline assembly", some library or other from PSC, etc.

    Anyway, you found a library. Good. Although I still don't see any code. The extent of your skills seem to be to post other people's work and to make ridiculous claims demonstrating your lack of understanding of compilers, languages and generally anything computer related. (Just here, there's no such thing as "an unlimited number of digits", you're limited by memory. And with VB6 stuck in 32bit land, that limit will hit you much sooner than it will with .Net)

    You claim your class is faster than a VB.Net solution, show me your code and the benchmark. It takes less than 5 minutes to code the solution in Vb.Net... Why haven't you taken 5 minutes to demonstrate your solution with code?
    I've got quite a few games made with Monogame/Vb.Net that I rate limit at 60fps or 30fps depending on the type of game... (to preserve battery on phone/tablets)

    Its not really hard to do or particularly impressive. Nor has VB.Net any problem with games. On the XBox 360, the garbage collector is and old crappy version, but if you pool your objects, you can avoid "stop the world" pauses and do your own clean up between levels...

    Looking at the dates in you VB6 NFS project, it seems like the author has been working on that for years and he barely has a tech demo... there's very little "game" in there; the physics are weird; the racetrack is barren, there is nothing but railing; no visual cues to distinguish different parts of the track... If the author had been using better tools (Monogame, Unity, etc...) he could get to the same point in a month or two and then spend his time on actually making the game interesting.

    If that's what you're going to show as "something only VB6 can do", you're shooting yourself in the foot. The source code is mostly a big VB6 wrapper around D3D (which is ok, that's what Unity and Monogame are) and the rest is reinventing the wheel - badly - many times over. It's not a "typical" line of business CRUD application (which is what VB6 excelled at) and just about any modern game tool would be a better choice than VB6.

    I can even show you javascript demos that are more impressive than your VB6 "racer"...
    https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerH...of_vb6_coding/

    The joy of VB6 coding is when you commit suicide 5 minutes in.
    aaaah, good old vb6

    wait, what year is it?
    https://www.reddit.com/r/visualbasic...vb6_resources/

    I recommend stopping by the posts in r/VBA as it's based on VB6. There are even posts about VBA in r/Excel. These would at the very least get you acquainted with the syntax of VB6. You still need to tinker with the IDE of VB6 to get a better feel for it.

    I highly recommend getting familiar with VB.NET as it's the latest iteration of VB, and is far more capable than VB6 will ever be. It would also allow you to have all the benefits of the .NET Framework, and allow you to tinker with C#.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/programming..._and_compiler/

    That's nice and all but this

    Once funds have been generated I see three options:

    Pay Olaf creator of www.vbrichclient.com to complete his project of a full vb6 replacement ide and compiler, which would be cross platform and modern. Please have a look at www.vbrichclient.com and see what is there already.

    Hire a group of developers to write a binding for vb6 using Lazarus the open source delphi ide/compiler.

    We come up with other options along the way like using the funds to bring VB6 to the open source community.
    ...basically says that they have no idea what they're going to do with the money (or why they even need the money in the first place). Basically is just some random dude saying "give me money and i'll figure out a way to remake VB6, i promise".

    Funny enough the author at #1, who has actually done some work, doesn't seem to be the one asking for the money :-P
    https://www.reddit.com/r/visualbasic...basic_in_2020/
    Related question - I've been away from VB and desktop programming for 10+ years, but I have a project in VB6 that I might like to resurrect. What is my big picture outlook and process for bringing it current?
    Bad, scrap it and start over.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/learnprogra..._visual_basic/

    What's up with all the hate for Visual Basic?
    Probably because of these reasons

    Basically Windows-only.

    On Error Resume Next / On Error GoTo 0
    https://www.reddit.com/r/dotnet/comm...tate_of_vbnet/

    This one legit made me laugh because of how true it is...
    It was my first .NET language and all the way up through about 2016 or so I'd still participate in VB-related forums. It was a little frustrating, because in general the language community had a strong predilection for tradition. VB6 was still strongly advocated and people still argued MS would abandon .NET and go back to COM once they "regained their senses".
    This was directed at VB.Net but it also very aptly describes VB6 gigafans....

    Some communities are just... weird. From time to time I visit AppGameKit forums. AGK is basically a dialect of BASIC for making games, oriented at non-programmers and beginners.

    It has some pretty impressive stuff, like a mature, powerful API, but on the other hand, the language is really, really simplistic. And many old members in the community refuse to adding things like default arguments. Let alone anonymous functions or generics.

    It's like Henry Ford said: "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses". They don't know what they are missing, but they don't want to learn either.

    I guess you can't blame them, as people get older, they get more resistant to change :/ and they get just what they want.

    I personally like C#. I have experience with it and C-related languages. But I also enjoy VB simplicity and lack of curly braces :P Sad to see it go away, but that's life.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/programming...ir_programmer/

    I hope it doesn't speak VB6, we need to let some languages die
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

    Copy/move files using Windows Shell

    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

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