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Thread: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

  1. #81
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    Pfft, you're all stupid to have moved on from HammerAndChisel 6.0. It was great for programming on tablets.
    I tried that on a series of modern tablets....it doesn't work so well. I have a montage of pictures that show the...uhhh....errors that resulted, but I don't have them handy.

    Tablets these days...they just don't make them like they used to.
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  2. #82
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    Of course I know what I want (your tone is like Niya).

    I know that .NETCore is open source, but I don't have the time and interest to study .NETCore. I don't know what is the relationship between .NetCore and TypeScript and VSCode, but I know that JavaScript is not related to .NETCore, this is enough. There is only VSCode on my computer.

    What else do you want to know?
    JavaScript is also not wonderful. I realize that it's essentially ubiquitous in web development, though everybody tries to make it better by using some overlay (Angular, TypeScript, JQuery...etc). You just can't put enough lipstick on that pig.
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  3. #83
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    Of course I know what I want (your tone is like Niya).

    I know that .NETCore is open source, but I don't have the time and interest to study .NETCore. I don't know what is the relationship between .NetCore and TypeScript and VSCode, but I know that JavaScript is not related to .NETCore, this is enough. There is only VSCode on my computer.

    What else do you want to know?
    You come in with a bold statement like VB6 is better than VB.NET (really it could X language is better than y language and just fill any x and y with whatever) but then you flip flop around. So far the only thing this thread has shown is that you're consistently inconsistent.
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    JavaScript is also not wonderful. I realize that it's essentially ubiquitous in web development, though everybody tries to make it better by using some overlay (Angular, TypeScript, JQuery...etc). You just can't put enough lipstick on that pig.
    Yes, it has a lot of problems, it used to be the language I hate the most. But the purpose of my choice of JavaScript is to escape from Microsoft (but I know that I may never escape from Microsoft). In addition, I have also gradually realized the charm of JavaScript.

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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    You come in with a bold statement like VB6 is better than VB.NET (really it could X language is better than y language and just fill any x and y with whatever) but then you flip flop around. So far the only thing this thread has shown is that you're consistently inconsistent.
    You have been distorting what I said, and I think my point of view has been expressed very clearly. Is my English really that bad?

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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    You have been distorting what I said, and I think my point of view has been expressed very clearly. Is my English really that bad?
    Nope, just your principles.

    Even in your last post you claim to want to move away from Microsoft but then a couple posts before you claim that "TypeScript and VSCode are Microsoft's most exciting open source projects".
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    Nope, just your principles.

    Even in your last post you claim to want to move away from Microsoft but then a couple posts before you claim that "TypeScript and VSCode are Microsoft's most exciting open source projects".
    I just forgot to mention TypeScript and VSCode, even, many times I forget that TypeScript and VSCode are Microsoft products (because their style is completely different from other Microsoft products).

    When I talk about leaving Microsoft's products and technologies, I want to talk about leaving the damn .NET (VB.NET and C#, WPF), leaving the huge VisualStudio.NET, leaving Access-DB, leaving SQLSever. Also, there is no MS-Office on my computer. Have I made it clear now?

    In addition, what did I flip? So far, VB6 (including IDE) is the best language I have used, and RC6 is the best framework I have used.

    The biggest challenge I face is not whether I can develop my scripting language, but whether I can develop an IDE as good as VB6-IDE
    Last edited by SearchingDataOnly; Aug 25th, 2021 at 09:59 AM.

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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    When I talk about leaving Microsoft's products and technologies, I want to talk about leaving the damn .NET (VB.NET and C#, WPF), leaving the huge VisualStudio.NET, leaving Access-DB, leaving SQLSever. Also, there is no MS-Office on my computer. Have I made it clear now?
    Not really clear, your statement seems arbitrary. Why would you not even entertain .NET core but simultaneously promote TypeScript? Both are open source, but the former you can use a BASIC syntax whereas the latter is a C style syntax. You clearly seem to be all in on BASIC style syntax so it seems odd.


    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    I just forgot to mention TypeScript and VSCode, even, many times I forget that TypeScript and VSCode are Microsoft products (because their style is completely different from other Microsoft products).

    ...

    In addition, what did I flip? So far, VB6 (including IDE) is the best language I have used, and RC6 is the best framework I have used.
    So then would you like to retract your advice given back in post 69?
    Last edited by dday9; Aug 25th, 2021 at 01:31 PM.
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Everyone will have many faces. For more than 20 years, in my mind, .NET is a **** (especially VB.NET), but I have to admit that C# is a very good language, and at the same time, I had to find some grammars I needed from the **** of VB.NET to fill in my scripting language.

    Even with this, the view that .NET is a **** has never changed in my mind. Of course, this is just my feeling, it has nothing to do with technology.
    Last edited by dday9; Aug 25th, 2021 at 10:13 AM. Reason: Replaced censored word with asterisks

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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    Not really clear, your statement seems arbitrary. Why would you not even entertain .NET core but simultaneously promote TypeScript? Both are open script, but the former you can use a BASIC syntax whereas the latter is a C style syntax. You clearly seem to be all in on BASIC style syntax so it seems odd.
    I think my point of view is very firm, but you think I am very arbitrary.

    I have already said that I have no time and no interest in learning about .NETCore. I am very busy, but when I search information on this forum, I'm always involved in such boring arguments beyond my control. I don't know what .NetCore is? Is it another open source scripting language? (I guess it should be a new .NET-like framework, but more lightweight and open source). If you want to promote .NETCore, please go to the VB.NET sub-forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    So then would you like to retract your advice given back in post 69?
    No, for a new developer, my advice to him is not to use Microsoft's technology, or not to use Microsoft's technology (such as programming language) as the main technology, but to learn and use open source technology as much as possible. I would recommend C, C++, Golang, Rust, JavaScript/TypeScript, Node.Js, Python, Java, Swift, to him.

    It's midnight and I haven't eaten dinner yet, this damn argument.

  11. #91
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    I have already said that I have no time and no interest in learning about .NETCore. I am very busy, but when I search information on this forum, I'm always involved in such boring arguments beyond my control. I don't know what .NetCore is? Is it another open source scripting language? (I guess it should be a new .NET-like framework, but more lightweight and open source). If you want to promote .NETCore, please go to the VB.NET sub-forum.
    It sounds like you're uninformed, which is OK don't get me wrong. As an uniformed developer, you think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET.

    I think adding that little quantifier to the beginning of your title would make this thread more accurate.
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    You come in with a bold statement like VB6 is better than VB.NET.
    No, it was me that did that.
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

  13. #93
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Eh, you say tomato I say tomato.
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    No, it was me that did that.
    I went back and had a look. It wasn't bold. You have to use the proper tags to make it bold. Right now, it's just a regular statement.

    So there!!
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    It sounds like you're uninformed, which is OK don't get me wrong. As an uniformed developer, you think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET.

    I think adding that little quantifier to the beginning of your title would make this thread more accurate.
    10 years ago, when I did not use RC5/RC6, I could almost use VB6 to develop much better desktop apps (more powerful features, better performance, better user experience, shorter development cycle and development cost) than VB.NET/C# . In other words, I haven't seen a certain desktop software developed with VB.NET/C# worthy of my admiration and appreciation.

    I asked Niya to cite an excellent desktop product developed using VB.NET/C# many times, but he still couldn't cite it. Maybe you can list such a product and let me have a look.

    And now, RC6 has brought VB6 into a whole new stage. I once mentioned a concept of VB6-2020, but I can't find it in this forum.
    Last edited by SearchingDataOnly; Aug 25th, 2021 at 11:04 AM.

  16. #96
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    I think my point of view is very firm, but you think I am very arbitrary.

    I have already said that I have no time and no interest in learning about .NETCore. I am very busy, but when I search information on this forum, I'm always involved in such boring arguments beyond my control. I don't know what .NetCore is? Is it another open source scripting language? (I guess it should be a new .NET-like framework, but more lightweight and open source). If you want to promote .NETCore, please go to the VB.NET sub-forum.
    I was going to just sit on the sidelines and watch t his dumpster fire of a ping-pong match ... but this... this right here is what usually grates on the gears of those proposing .NET ... those that just want to stuff their fingers in their ears and go "blah blah blah blah, it's not VB6 so blah blah blah I don't hear you..." You immediately dismiss .NET Core and yet you don't even know a thing about it. It's like the anti-vaxxers that refuse to take the covid shot because of what their father's cousin's former roommate posted on youtwiface. If you don't know something about a given technology then you are in no position to promote or denounce it. You didn't even know it was open source. Did you know that it's also cross-platform? Yeah. You can write .NETCore code that will run on Windows... and Mac... and Linux... And there's even frameworks out there that will allow you to design forms for those environments as well. I'm toying with one right now on Linux. It's a bit of a pill since it isn't the visual designer we're all used to, but that's fine, I can deal with it - I've built web sites by hand before too. My point is, you shouldn't be too busy... you should MAKE the time - you've had time to spend in the forums here. That's what I've been doing. .NET isn't my life right now. I'm in an Oracle-Java-Radct-Redux stack right now... that's what my day job does. At night... I look up the stuff that interests me. The stuff I think I need to know to keep up in this industry... and believe it or not .NETCore is one of those things. I see more and more job postings for it. .NETCore and MVC... it's here... it's growing. It's gaining steam.

    So which is it? Are you dismissing .NETCore out of complete spite for microsoft? Or is it out of ignorance? Is it out of fear?

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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    I was going to just sit on the sidelines and watch t his dumpster fire of a ping-pong match ... but this... this right here is what usually grates on the gears of those proposing .NET ... those that just want to stuff their fingers in their ears and go "blah blah blah blah, it's not VB6 so blah blah blah I don't hear you..." You immediately dismiss .NET Core and yet you don't even know a thing about it. It's like the anti-vaxxers that refuse to take the covid shot because of what their father's cousin's former roommate posted on youtwiface. If you don't know something about a given technology then you are in no position to promote or denounce it. You didn't even know it was open source. Did you know that it's also cross-platform? Yeah. You can write .NETCore code that will run on Windows... and Mac... and Linux... And there's even frameworks out there that will allow you to design forms for those environments as well. I'm toying with one right now on Linux. It's a bit of a pill since it isn't the visual designer we're all used to, but that's fine, I can deal with it - I've built web sites by hand before too. My point is, you shouldn't be too busy... you should MAKE the time - you've had time to spend in the forums here. That's what I've been doing. .NET isn't my life right now. I'm in an Oracle-Java-Radct-Redux stack right now... that's what my day job does. At night... I look up the stuff that interests me. The stuff I think I need to know to keep up in this industry... and believe it or not .NETCore is one of those things. I see more and more job postings for it. .NETCore and MVC... it's here... it's growing. It's gaining steam.

    So which is it? Are you dismissing .NETCore out of complete spite for microsoft? Or is it out of ignorance? Is it out of fear?

    -tg
    (1) Do you think that VB.NET referred to by Niya is .NETCore?

    (2) I said that I have not paid attention to Microsoft's technology in the past 3 years. Is there any problem with this?

    (3) Do you master all the programming techniques?

    (4) In addition, when I said I don't know .NETCore, I mean that I have not study .NETCore in depth (or I learned it briefly, but I forgot it), but I know every feature of .NETCore you introduced in your comments, but I won't say that I know .NETCore, do you understand?

    (5) dday9 said that .NETCore is another scripting language like TypeScript, which surprised me. This is completely different from the .NETCore I knew before.

    (6) Perhaps you have learned a lot of technology, but I just want to know which famous products you have made. Please tell me.

    (7) In the process of searching information in vbForums, I never found any comments or codes of yours. Are you a VB6 developer?
    Last edited by SearchingDataOnly; Aug 25th, 2021 at 12:05 PM.

  18. #98
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    (1) Do you think that VB.NET referred to by Niya is .NETCore?
    Yeah, almost certainly. Technically, .NETCore is not really the name anymore. I believe the name has changed to .NET 5, and I could be wrong about that. Perhaps .NETCore is still retained in some places. It feels like it is essentially saying "no longer framework"...but it's all just branding. In any case, based on when Niya moved over, and the things he's talked about, I think it's probably about 80% likely that he's talking about .NETCore.

    It really doesn't make much difference, though. The difference between .NETCore and .NET framework is huge behind the scenes, but pretty subtle in front of the screen. I work on both, and am hard pressed to point to differences in the code (okay, I have yet to see ANY difference), form designers (that may not be a fair comparison), or most things other than the way the Solution Explorer works. So, it doesn't really matter whether he is talking about Core or Framework, but he's probably talking about Core.
    (2) I said that I have not paid attention to Microsoft's technology in the past 3 years. Is there any problem with this?
    Possibly. One of the long standing issues that people had with .NET was the reliance on the framework. This was partly due to needing the framework, which was a burden back in the days of XP and Win7, but was also about whether the code ended up as compiled code or IL, and therefore could be easily decompiled as well as requiring a compilation step. Those are issues that were addressed with Core, so if those were issues that you had with .NET, and you haven't been paying attention during the last three years (or so), then you may want to take a second look.
    (3) Do you master all the programming techniques?
    No....I hadn't heard of Rockstar. Now I would really like to re-write some libraries in Rockstar. I think it would be totally awesome to make some statistical libraries in that language.

    (5) dday9 said that .NETCore is another scripting language like TypeScript, which surprised me. This is completely different from the .NETCore I knew before.
    Yeah, it isn't, so I'm not sure what that was about.
    (6) Perhaps you have learned a lot of technology, but I just want to know which famous products you have made. Please tell me.
    I think that famous products are pretty much in the eye of the beholder. I use Paint.NET as my goto paint program. I'm pretty terrible at graphics, so UcleBer would probably scoff, but it's a good program. Of course, if that's not your thing, then...yeah, it wouldn't be famous.

    I'm not sure what famous would be when it comes to programming. What is a famous program? I'm working on one that I would like to make popular within a very narrow audience, but it will never be famous by any general standard of the word. I work in too small a pond.

    The only programs I can think of that I'd call famous are games, or perhaps things like MS Office. I'm not even sure that I'd call Office famous, though. It's certainly well known, but famous? I'd say that Doom is famous, Office is just well known.
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    (5) dday9 said that .NETCore is another scripting language like TypeScript, which surprised me. This is completely different from the .NETCore I knew before.
    Nope, I never said that. Here is what I actually said:
    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    To that point, why wouldn't you suggest TypeScript? TypeScript can be used to make both client-side and server-side applications and it is the driving language behind the Angular framework. After all TypeScript is developed and maintained by Microsoft.
    Edit - Oh, I see. You're referring to here:
    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    Not really clear, your statement seems arbitrary. Why would you not even entertain .NET core but simultaneously promote TypeScript? Both are open script, but the former you can use a BASIC syntax whereas the latter is a C style syntax. You clearly seem to be all in on BASIC style syntax so it seems odd.
    That was a typo. Replace script with source.
    Last edited by dday9; Aug 25th, 2021 at 01:30 PM.
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by PlausiblyDamp View Post
    Doesn't that go against your quote of as aren't both twinBasic and RadBasic closed source languages. Also dotnet core is an open source language now anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    You are so full of contradictions. First you say:


    Then you dismiss .NET core outright.

    Do you even know what you want?
    You see this is what I'm talking about. It's this kind of disingenuousness that really rubs me the wrong way. They know damn well that .Net is a perfectly valid suggestion for someone looking to do development on Windows and they know damn well that nothing is wrong with the technology. However, Microsoft hurt them by abandoning VB6 so what do they do? They get all up in their feelings and pretend that there are all these problems with .Net or they pretend it doesn't exist and then go on to make all of these crazy suggestions like Golang and Swift. Now there is nothing wrong with these technologies but think about what they are saying here for just a minute. They are actually telling us that someone who looking to write plain old Windows software should think about Swift and Golang? RadBasic? We haven't even figured out if RadBasic is a scam yet. Yes I was in that thread, I just didn't post in it but I read the discussion. Also, RC5, 6 or whatever? No offense to Olaf but has no one thought about what would happen is he should suddenly kick the bucket? What if he gets up one morning and pulls a John McAfee and decides to go in the jungles of Belize or whatever and live in a mud hut, has anyone thought about that?

    Do you see the ridiculousness here? So picture this. I'm a programmer, perhaps a long time QuickBasic or VB2 programmer that took a break. I'm looking to get back into it in 2021. I come here and ask for suggestions. Is this the nonsense I'm going to hear? RadBasic, something that doesn't even exist outside of some special effects fiesta on YouTube? RC5 which is closed source and maintained by a single individual? You're going to ignore one of the biggest, most robust, up to date and successful development frameworks of all time? You're going to ignore an open sourced and cutting edge juggernaut like .Net because Microsoft hurt your feelings 10 or 12 years ago? What kind of childish nonsense is this?

    You know what......I'm never going to stop. If you guys keep doing this pushing this disingenuous nonsense, I'm gonna keep calling it out...every single time.

    You like VB6 fine. You think it's great, fine. But it's outdated tech with no support and requires a tonne of effort to keep applications written in it up to modern standards, for example Unicode and DPI awareness. It can't even do the simplest modern thing like compile to a 64 bit binary. Anyone who suggests it's better than a modern tool like Visual Studio 2019/.Net for writing plain old everyday Windows applications is out of their damn mind. I will keep calling out this nonsense, every single time I see it.
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  21. #101
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    I asked Niya to cite an excellent desktop product developed using VB.NET/C# many times, but he still couldn't cite it. Maybe you can list such a product and let me have a look.
    Here you go. It's not a desktop application but it is as much a .Net application as any WinForms, WPF or UWP program.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  22. #102
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    What if he gets up one morning and pulls a John McAfee and decides to go in the jungles of Belize or whatever and live in a mud hut, has anyone thought about that?
    Since you're talking about Olaf, if he did that I would laugh for a solid five minutes just at the absolute beauty of such a move. I just LOVE it when people do things like that. It really is what life is about, that people can turn on a dime. If he did something as extreme as that, I might just have to hunt him down and wash his feet just out of respect for the insanity of such a move.

    Still, while I get the frustration, there is a very key point in there...and another one that you missed. For anybody that felt burned by MS moving away from VB6, I totally understand that. Folks high up in MS who were involved with that move totally understand that. It's a really valid feeling. However, if your response to that is to go entirely open source, that would be appropriate. If your response is to adopt technology that can be ENDED by a heart attack, that's a really, really BAD response. If you didn't enjoy being badly burned by a large corporation, you should most definitely NOT respond to that by putting your future on a bet that can burn you by pure chance.

    The other point, which you overlooked, was that MS really did turn away from VB6, they only advanced VBx for a few years (depending on whether you start counting from VB1 or VB4). At that point, they moved to a different language, which is about to start it's third decade of constant support, with no end in sight. So, yeah, they abandoned VB6, and that burned a whole lot of people, but it was a brief few years, and what replaced it has almost been around for as many decades as the years that VB6 was developed. If you want longevity you have it.
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  23. #103
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Yeah, almost certainly. Technically, .NETCore is not really the name anymore. I believe the name has changed to .NET 5, and I could be wrong about that. Perhaps .NETCore is still retained in some places. It feels like it is essentially saying "no longer framework"...but it's all just branding. In any case, based on when Niya moved over, and the things he's talked about, I think it's probably about 80% likely that he's talking about .NETCore.
    Right now I'm still working with the classic .Net Framework version 4.7.2 for a project. I'm also doing some light proof of concept stuff in Xamarin Forms which is .Net Core. When I'm done with these, I'm thinking about web development technologies like ASP.Net and Blazor which would use .Net 5. I'm also waiting in anticipation for .Net MAUI and Blazor Hybrid in .Net 6. I'm going to be all over the place in .Net. I don't think most people realize how massive .Net is. It covers a LOT of ground in application development.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

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  24. #104
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Since you're talking about Olaf, if he did that I would laugh for a solid five minutes just at the absolute beauty of such a move. I just LOVE it when people do things like that. It really is what life is about, that people can turn on a dime. If he did something as extreme as that, I might just have to hunt him down and wash his feet just out of respect for the insanity of such a move.
    lmao...yea that would be insane, comical and inspiring all at the same time....

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Still, while I get the frustration, there is a very key point in there...and another one that you missed. For anybody that felt burned by MS moving away from VB6, I totally understand that. Folks high up in MS who were involved with that move totally understand that. It's a really valid feeling. However, if your response to that is to go entirely open source, that would be appropriate. If your response is to adopt technology that can be ENDED by a heart attack, that's a really, really BAD response. If you didn't enjoy being badly burned by a large corporation, you should most definitely NOT respond to that by putting your future on a bet that can burn you by pure chance.
    This is an excellent point and worded much better than I could have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    The other point, which you overlooked, was that MS really did turn away from VB6, they only advanced VBx for a few years (depending on whether you start counting from VB1 or VB4). At that point, they moved to a different language, which is about to start it's third decade of constant support, with no end in sight. So, yeah, they abandoned VB6, and that burned a whole lot of people, but it was a brief few years, and what replaced it has almost been around for as many decades as the years that VB6 was developed. If you want longevity you have it.
    This is a very good point as well.
    Last edited by Niya; Aug 25th, 2021 at 04:43 PM.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  25. #105
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    I can't keep track of what ASP means anymore, let alone .NET.

    I'm working in Framework 4.0, 4.5 (I think), and 4.7.2. I've also on my second project in .NET 5, which looks and feels almost identical to Framework, so I'm not entirely sure that I know what the differences are. I believe there's no IL with Core (and now 5), but I haven't gone looking, and I am certain that I don't know all the ramifications of that.
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  26. #106
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    This is an excellent point and worded much better than I could have.
    What I said there is my view on the entire programming landscape. I really got into programming at a time of memory models, DOS, and Windows, so not as far back as szlamany (though my father was a Digital engineer, and I still have some of their luggage), but back when there wasn't all that much diversity. These days, it's really quite daunting trying to figure out where to place a bet.

    If you want to take up something that will guarantee you ten years of future, I think the only two would be C# and Java, with VB.NET falling just short. I have zero faith that ANY current version of JS will be a significant player ten years from now. I believe ASP.NET will still be around, but largely because it's just a name that has meant many things over the years. As long as MS is willing to change what ASP.NET means, then the name will be around in ten years even if nothing you use it for will resemble what you use it for today.

    I also don't have any faith in ANY Apple language, and only believe in Java because it seems to be the thing for Android. To be sure, I believe that Apple will be around. What I'm not convinced about is that they will be making computers. As for Android, they will still be around, and Java will still be used to make native Android applications, but Java may or may not be THE language for that, by then.

    The future has never been as expansive, and that means that the future has never been more obscure.
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  27. #107
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    so I'm not entirely sure that I know what the differences are. I believe there's no IL with Core (and now 5), but I haven't gone looking, and I am certain that I don't know all the ramifications of that.
    One major difference I know of between .Net 5 and the classic .Net Framework is that .Net 5 is fully cross platform. For example you can literally write 64 bit Linux non-UI applications in .Net 5, you can't do that with the classic Framework. They also did a great job of maintaining the "feel" of using the Framework. .Net 5 code would more or less be the same as classic Framework code. You can find a lot of the familiar stuff in the same places like BinaryReaders, IEnumerable<T> and it's LINQ extension, ToString, ToArray etc. It all works exactly the same as it did in the classic Framework.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  28. #108
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    What I said there is my view on the entire programming landscape. I really got into programming at a time of memory models, DOS, and Windows, so not as far back as szlamany (though my father was a Digital engineer, and I still have some of their luggage), but back when there wasn't all that much diversity. These days, it's really quite daunting trying to figure out where to place a bet.

    If you want to take up something that will guarantee you ten years of future, I think the only two would be C# and Java, with VB.NET falling just short. I have zero faith that ANY current version of JS will be a significant player ten years from now. I believe ASP.NET will still be around, but largely because it's just a name that has meant many things over the years. As long as MS is willing to change what ASP.NET means, then the name will be around in ten years even if nothing you use it for will resemble what you use it for today.

    I also don't have any faith in ANY Apple language, and only believe in Java because it seems to be the thing for Android. To be sure, I believe that Apple will be around. What I'm not convinced about is that they will be making computers. As for Android, they will still be around, and Java will still be used to make native Android applications, but Java may or may not be THE language for that, by then.

    The future has never been as expansive, and that means that the future has never been more obscure.
    I honestly think the best bet for the far future would be in web technologies simply because it's too big for any one entity to kill off. HTML, JavaScript and CSS aren't going anywhere. After that my bet would be Java for nearly the same reason. Java is probably the best cross platform environment after web based technologies. Java is everywhere and it would be very difficult for any one entity to kill off. After that, I would bet on .Net. .Net is not as secure as the aforementioned technologies. It could still die but it's becoming pretty rooted in the world. ASP.Net and the C# language were massive successes and drives much of the success of .Net as a platform.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  29. #109
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    I forgot to talk about TypeScript. Yes, TypeScript and VSCode are Microsoft's most exciting open source projects and must be learned by young people. The transpiler I develop now is to translate my scripting language into JavaScript and TypeScript.
    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    I forgot to talk about TypeScript. Yes, TypeScript and VSCode are Microsoft's most exciting open source projects and must be learned by young people. The transpiler I develop now is to translate my scripting language into JavaScript and TypeScript.
    You are so full of contradictions. First you say:


    In addition, for a new developer, my advice to him is not to use Microsoft's technology, or not to use Microsoft's technology (such as programming language) as the main technology
    Then you dismiss .NET core outright.

    Do you even know what you want?
    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    Nope, just your principles.

    Even in your last post you claim to want to move away from Microsoft but then a couple posts before you claim that "TypeScript and VSCode are Microsoft's most exciting open source projects".
    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    Not really clear, your statement seems arbitrary. Why would you not even entertain .NET core but simultaneously promote TypeScript? Both are open source, but the former you can use a BASIC syntax whereas the latter is a C style syntax. You clearly seem to be all in on BASIC style syntax so it seems odd.

    So then would you like to retract your advice given back in post 69?
    dday9, have you found that you, like Niya and other .NET enthusiasts, have extremely confusing logic, but you blame others for inconsistencies.

    Do you know why I recommend TypeScript to beginners?
    The only reason I recommend TypeScript is because TypeScript is closely connected with JavaScript and is a superset of JavaScript. But you used this to attack my inconsistency. Don't you think this is an extremely ridiculous thing?

    Why am I not interested in .NETCore? On the one hand because it is a continuation of .NET, on the other hand it has nothing to do with JavaScript. I want to minimize the use of Microsoft's technology and products. What is the contradiction between this and my use of TypeScript?
    Last edited by SearchingDataOnly; Aug 25th, 2021 at 05:04 PM.

  30. #110
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    ...Don't you think this is an extremely ridiculous thing?...
    No, I personally don't. TypeScript is phenomenal and I would highly encourage new developers to look into it. You were the one who would not suggest anything Microsoft to a new developer (see post 90 and your last post).

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    Why am I not interested in .NETCore? On the one hand because it is a continuation of .NET, on the other hand it has nothing to do with JavaScript. I want to minimize the use of Microsoft's technology and products. What is the contradiction between this and my use of TypeScript?
    Because you're so fervent on pushing twinBasic/radBasic because they're both: A) open source and B) have a BASIC syntax. Both of which meet Visual Basic in .NET Core.

    Edit - It seems like you've indirectly answered TG's question. You are dismissing .NET Core out of complete spite for Microsoft.

    Edit #2 - You also seem to indicate that I would push someone to .NET over other technologies. That's an assumption you've made because you have mistakenly created a binary choice in your head: You're either for Microsoft pre-.NET framework and anti-Microsoft post-.NET framework or you're a .NET purist. The reality is that it is much more nuanced than that, you need to be practical in what you're learning. For example, my sister-in-law has been asking me what back-end technology she should get into because she's going to school to be a web developer. I explained that I work in a Microsoft stack for work and a PHP stack in my personal work, but that she should make the decision based on job availability and right now, where she lives, that is Java or NodeJS. She's gone with the latter.
    Last edited by dday9; Aug 25th, 2021 at 05:20 PM.
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  31. #111
    Frenzied Member PlausiblyDamp's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    I honestly think the best bet for the far future would be in web technologies simply because it's too big for any one entity to kill off. HTML, JavaScript and CSS aren't going anywhere. After that my bet would be Java for nearly the same reason. Java is probably the best cross platform environment after web based technologies. Java is everywhere and it would be very difficult for any one entity to kill off. After that, I would bet on .Net. .Net is not as secure as the aforementioned technologies. It could still die but it's becoming pretty rooted in the world. ASP.Net and the C# language were massive successes and drives much of the success of .Net as a platform.
    I think WASM could be an interesting future for the web, with JavaScript being just another language that can compile to WASM, only had a quick play with Blazor on dotnet but I can see the potential there as well.

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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Yeah, almost certainly. Technically, .NETCore is not really the name anymore. I believe the name has changed to .NET 5, and I could be wrong about that. Perhaps .NETCore is still retained in some places. It feels like it is essentially saying "no longer framework"...but it's all just branding. In any case, based on when Niya moved over, and the things he's talked about, I think it's probably about 80% likely that he's talking about .NETCore.

    It really doesn't make much difference, though. The difference between .NETCore and .NET framework is huge behind the scenes, but pretty subtle in front of the screen. I work on both, and am hard pressed to point to differences in the code (okay, I have yet to see ANY difference), form designers (that may not be a fair comparison), or most things other than the way the Solution Explorer works. So, it doesn't really matter whether he is talking about Core or Framework, but he's probably talking about Core.

    Possibly. One of the long standing issues that people had with .NET was the reliance on the framework. This was partly due to needing the framework, which was a burden back in the days of XP and Win7, but was also about whether the code ended up as compiled code or IL, and therefore could be easily decompiled as well as requiring a compilation step. Those are issues that were addressed with Core, so if those were issues that you had with .NET, and you haven't been paying attention during the last three years (or so), then you may want to take a second look.

    No....I hadn't heard of Rockstar. Now I would really like to re-write some libraries in Rockstar. I think it would be totally awesome to make some statistical libraries in that language.

    Yeah, it isn't, so I'm not sure what that was about.
    From the comments above, I did not see the necessity of learning and understanding .NETCore, nor the reason why I need to recommend .NETCore to others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I think that famous products are pretty much in the eye of the beholder. I use Paint.NET as my goto paint program. I'm pretty terrible at graphics, so UcleBer would probably scoff, but it's a good program. Of course, if that's not your thing, then...yeah, it wouldn't be famous.

    I'm not sure what famous would be when it comes to programming. What is a famous program? I'm working on one that I would like to make popular within a very narrow audience, but it will never be famous by any general standard of the word. I work in too small a pond.

    The only programs I can think of that I'd call famous are games, or perhaps things like MS Office. I'm not even sure that I'd call Office famous, though. It's certainly well known, but famous? I'd say that Doom is famous, Office is just well known.
    I said that I would like to see some famous products of tg. This is an emotional and irrational statement. What I want to express is that some people have learned a lot of technology, but each technology is just for some preliminary use, just to deal with some simple schedule work. In this case, their arguments on technology are not reliable. For example, Niya, he is always learning new technologies, but he is not an expert in VB6, VB.NET or C#. But he always made some ridiculous comments and laughed at real technical experts.
    Last edited by SearchingDataOnly; Aug 25th, 2021 at 05:24 PM.

  33. #113
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by PlausiblyDamp View Post
    I think WASM could be an interesting future for the web, with JavaScript being just another language that can compile to WASM, only had a quick play with Blazor on dotnet but I can see the potential there as well.
    Oh yea, I forgot about WASM. Yea, Blazor+WASM is definitely an extremely powerful combo. I played with it briefly before getting pulled back into what I'm currently doing and my participation in the testing of TwinBASIC. I was really impressed with what I saw and can't wait to go back to it. It really has the potential to stand the test of time.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  34. #114
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    For example, Niya, he is always learning new technologies, but he is not an expert in VB6, VB.NET or C#. But he always made some ridiculous comments and laughed at real technical experts.
    Anybody who would suggest that a 20 year old technology like VB6 is better than a modern actively developed and supported technology like .Net is not an expert. They are trolling.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  35. #115
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    No, I personally don't. TypeScript is phenomenal and I would highly encourage new developers to look into it. You were the one who would not suggest anything Microsoft to a new developer (see post 90 and your last post).
    You misrepresented my words again.

    Did you read my post #69? I suspect that you deliberately distorted other people's words.

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    Because you're so fervent on pushing twinBasic/radBasic because they're both: A) open source and B) have a BASIC syntax. Both of which meet Visual Basic in .NET Core.

    Edit - It seems like you've indirectly answered TG's question. You are dismissing .NET Core out of complete spite for Microsoft.

    Edit #2 - You also seem to indicate that I would push someone to .NET over other technologies. That's an assumption you've made because you have mistakenly created a binary choice in your head: You're either for Microsoft pre-.NET framework and anti-Microsoft post-.NET framework or you're a .NET purist. The reality is that it is much more nuanced than that, you need to be practical in what you're learning. For example, my sister-in-law has been asking me what back-end technology she should get into because she's going to school to be a web developer. I explained that I work in a Microsoft stack for work and a PHP stack in my personal work, but that she should make the decision based on job availability and right now, where she lives, that is Java or NodeJS. She's gone with the latter.
    You are distorting my meaning and words again. Your way of thinking is too simple and single.

    In addition, when you involve twinBasic and RadBasic, the debate will inevitably turn in another direction, just as you use TypeScript to mess up the whole debate.

    Tell me now, why is my recommendation of TypeScript contradictory? After clarifying this question, we can proceed to the next debate.
    Last edited by SearchingDataOnly; Aug 25th, 2021 at 05:46 PM.

  36. #116
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    You misrepresented my words again.



    You are distorting my meaning and words again. Your way of thinking is too simple and single.

    In addition, when you involve twinBasic and RadBasic, the debate begins to turn in another direction, just as you use TypeScript to mess up the whole debate.
    lol bro. Give it up. You've been caught contradicting yourself by multiple people. Admit it. You have no real solid point. You are driven entirely by spite for Microsoft. You have no real reason for your love of VB6 and hate for .Net other than pure emotion. Your views are not based on anything objective.

    You like VB6, fine. Good for you. But it's still outdated technology and no one should really be doing anything more than maintenance work in it. If you want to write new projects in it, have at it. That is 100% fine but let's be real here, there is no sensible reason to suggest that anyone should use it over VB.Net or C#/.Net for the same workloads.

    I will throw you a bone and say that TwinBASIC could actually be a valid alternative to VB.Net. It's more streamlined that .Net technologies and it's definitely heading in the right direction. But not VB6. Let's get real here fam.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  37. #117
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    I asked Niya to cite an excellent desktop product developed using VB.NET/C# many times, but he still couldn't cite it. Maybe you can list such a product and let me have a look.
    Here you go. It's not a desktop application but it is as much a .Net application as any WinForms, WPF or UWP program.
    Niya, are you a comedian? Is this the example you want to cite? Do you really have no idea how messy your logic is?

  38. #118
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    Niya, are you a comedian? Is this the example you want to cite? Do you really have no idea how messy your logic is?
    The Stackoverflow website is built using ASP.Net MVC, C# and Dapper, all of which are .Net technologies. You asked for a well known .Net application, that website is one of the most well known. Stop trolling.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

    Copy/move files using Windows Shell

    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  39. #119
    Hyperactive Member
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    The Stackoverflow website is built using ASP.Net MVC, C# and Dapper, all of which are .Net technologies. You asked for a well known .Net application, that website is one of the most well known. Stop trolling.
    Don't you understand what Desktop-Apps means?

  40. #120
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: I think VB6 is much a better tool/language than VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    I honestly think the best bet for the far future would be in web technologies simply because it's too big for any one entity to kill off. HTML, JavaScript and CSS aren't going anywhere.
    I agree with HTML and CSS, but not JS. I feel that WASM has a chance to eventually remove JS. They are complementary, currently, but JS has some deep flaws. I feel that it is still around because there isn't a viable candidate to replace it. WASM can't do that, currently, but I believe it could in the future.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

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