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Thread: Establish sub-forums for vbRichClient and twinBasic

  1. #1

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    Establish sub-forums for vbRichClient and twinBasic

    IMO, it's time to establish sub-forums for vbRichClient and twinBasic. In addition, some sub-forums that are rarely visited should be merged.

    The old tree of vbForums should grow new shoots.

  2. #2
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Establish sub-forums for vbRichClient and twinBasic

    Moderators have already ruled on this. If TwinBASIC blows up, it will get its own sub-forum. As of now it's too early for such a decision. As for Olaf's library, having it's own sub-forum is a good idea in theory but bad in practice. It's hard enough to get new users to post in the correct sub-forum, and this will create even more confusion and give the moderators more work separating VB6 threads from threads about the library.
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    Re: Establish sub-forums for vbRichClient and twinBasic

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    As for Olaf's library, having it's own sub-forum is a good idea in theory but bad in practice. It's hard enough to get new users to post in the correct sub-forum, and this will create even more confusion and give the moderators more work separating VB6 threads from threads about the library.
    Yes, I also thought it would cause some confusion that establishing sub-forums for vbRichClient, because most VB6ers almost never visit other sub-forums other than VB6 sub-forums. But since twinBasic appeared, it seems that people browsing other sub-forums (mainly OtherBasic sub-forums) have gradually increased, which shows that people's browsing habits can be gradually changed.

    We are really tired of endless quarrels. Some people here are extremely hostile to vbRichClient. Establishing sub-forums for vbRichClient can reduce such quarrels, and it's also convenient for vbRichClient fans to search information.

    I believe that the fans and supporters of vbRichClient will build the vbRichClient sub-forum into a very valuable and attractive sub-forum. I'll also share some code in the vbRichClient sub-forum, it may be the Cairo version of Krool's CommonControls (but the Cairo version will definitely add many new features). Of course, this is only possible, because I don't know if it is necessary yet (because I'm thinking of another UI lib, DirectUI based on XML). But obviously, vbWidgets of vbRichClient has not produced enough appeal to people. Because things that seem extremely simple for Olaf, it seems very difficult for developers who are used to MS CommonControls.

    As for you said that the establishment of vbRichClient sub-forums will increase the workload of the moderators. In my opinion, if some seldom-visited sub-forums are merged, the workload of the moderators will be reduced.
    Last edited by SearchingDataOnly; Aug 22nd, 2021 at 10:42 PM.

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    Re: Establish sub-forums for vbRichClient and twinBasic

    There are some examples of the use of controls, you can put all the use of all do up, so learn up on the simple.

    I feel that this DLL file does not seem to have a help file.
    You can learn the complete demo teaching method of vsflexgrid

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    Re: Establish sub-forums for vbRichClient and twinBasic

    In China, the automatic operation of the COM DLL, the number of users tens of millions.

    The main thing is to develop a functional module that many people need.If you add a statistical function. The IDE run counts the number of users of each function

    The main thing is that most of the functions are not necessary.As I said, webview.
    Cario, this is too complicated to say after a few times.

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    Re: Establish sub-forums for vbRichClient and twinBasic

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaoyao View Post
    There are some examples of the use of controls, you can put all the use of all do up, so learn up on the simple.

    I feel that this DLL file does not seem to have a help file.
    You can learn the complete demo teaching method of vsflexgrid
    Quote Originally Posted by xiaoyao View Post
    In China, the automatic operation of the COM DLL, the number of users tens of millions.

    The main thing is to develop a functional module that many people need.If you add a statistical function. The IDE run counts the number of users of each function

    The main thing is that most of the functions are not necessary.As I said, webview.
    Cario, this is too complicated to say after a few times.
    Don't think about anything, vbForums has everything you need about vbRichClient. Learn vbRichClient seriously, otherwise, this day next year, your technical level will still be the same as today.

    Don't ask too many questions, searching this forum is enough.
    Last edited by SearchingDataOnly; Aug 23rd, 2021 at 08:47 AM.

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    Re: Establish sub-forums for vbRichClient and twinBasic

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    Yes, I also thought it would cause some confusion that establishing sub-forums for vbRichClient, because most VB6ers almost never visit other sub-forums other than VB6 sub-forums. But since twinBasic appeared, it seems that people browsing other sub-forums (mainly OtherBasic sub-forums) have gradually increased, which shows that people's browsing habits can be gradually changed.
    That's true. One of the positive aspects of all of this is that I think people have begun contemplating the situation from different perspectives. At this point, I argued against subforums, because I don't think we are there YET. After all, TwinBasic isn't even a thing, yet, as it's still just a beta release and, while it is currently progressing and looking better, I still feel it is on pretty thin ice. At this point, it has what amounts to a single point of failure that could wipe it all away. It depends to highly on the motivation of a single person.

    We'll watch the progress.
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    Re: Establish sub-forums for vbRichClient and twinBasic

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    That's true. One of the positive aspects of all of this is that I think people have begun contemplating the situation from different perspectives. At this point, I argued against subforums, because I don't think we are there YET. After all, TwinBasic isn't even a thing, yet, as it's still just a beta release and, while it is currently progressing and looking better, I still feel it is on pretty thin ice. At this point, it has what amounts to a single point of failure that could wipe it all away. It depends to highly on the motivation of a single person.

    We'll watch the progress.
    Yes, twinBasic is still in the process of gradual improvement. It may take 3-6 months to decide whether it is worth setting up a sub-forum for twinBasic. But the time to establish a sub-forum for vbRichClient should be ripe. But we still don’t know if Olaf is willing to establish a vbRichClient sub-forum.

    Without the vbRichClient sub-forum, many people do not know where to start learning vbRichClient. The information of vbRichClient in this forum is too scattered.

    Edit:
    In my opinion, only vbRichClient can attract young people to learn VB6, but the problem is that young people have no way to obtain a legal version of VB6.
    Last edited by SearchingDataOnly; Aug 23rd, 2021 at 10:08 AM.

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    Re: Establish sub-forums for vbRichClient and twinBasic

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    In my opinion, only vbRichClient can attract young people to learn VB6, but the problem is that young people have no way to obtain a legal version of VB6.
    Almost as if the IDE is no longer supported by Microsoft as of April 8, 2008 (or 13 years, 4 months, and 15 days as of writing this).
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    Re: Establish sub-forums for vbRichClient and twinBasic

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    Almost as if the IDE is no longer supported by Microsoft as of April 8, 2008 (or 13 years, 4 months, and 15 days as of writing this).
    This.

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    Re: Establish sub-forums for vbRichClient and twinBasic

    The trouble is, the only reason for creating a dedicated sub forum for TB or RC6 is in the assumption that they are genuine replacements for VB6 and deserve equal billing as potential successors to VB6. Eventually, the assumption could be made that TB, RC6 or RB might become as valid as VB6 and each or any could potentially take over the majority of this forum's posts.

    However, we don't actually know this at the moment and there are other potential suitors for the crown of a VB6 replacement, TTn/PrimeDivine's approach, AxisDJ's offering. We don't know which might achieve that aim and so VBForum has to give each and every suitor equal billing. We could have a proliferation of sub-boards, MixLangz team could argue preferential treatment for the other offerings is unfair preferential treatment.

    Five years ago I would have said Olaf was the one that would build a VB6 replacement first, now I am not so sure. Even if one project is completed first, it will be the one that is taken up by the rest of the world (if at all) that will define which takes the VB6 successor crown.
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Establish sub-forums for vbRichClient and twinBasic

    I favor the other approach suggested by vbrad, and have suggested how to improve the OtherBASIC forum in both the TwinBASIC thread, and the thread in this forum started by vbrad, so I won't repeat it here.

    However, my understanding is that RC6 is essentially an extension on VB6, not a replacement for VB6. I was also under the impression that it works in TwinBASIC already. That being the case, I'm pretty sure that it would be unprecedented to create a sub-forum for an extension. If you open that door...where does it end? Sub-forums for DirectX? MonoGame? SQLClient data provider? NewtonSoft?
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    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Establish sub-forums for vbRichClient and twinBasic

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    If you open that door...where does it end? Sub-forums for DirectX? MonoGame? SQLClient data provider? NewtonSoft?
    This very thought ran across my mind.
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    Re: Establish sub-forums for vbRichClient and twinBasic

    A very wise man recently wrote the following on the subject of sub forums:

    If a knock-off is open-source and freely available, I could see adding a forum area for it based on it having a little popularity. If the knock off putters out, you can always archive the forum.

    If the knock-off is not open-source *and* not freely available, then if I were TechnologyAdvice (owners) I would consider a forum area free advertising which isn't good if you are deriving your revenue from advertising. TA's sales people should be pitching the non-free, non-open source products to buy a forum area (which should then be appropriately marked as sponsored). Of course, if a knock off is going to drive a huge amount of traffic, then that might justify a free forum area based on the pageviews, but that's unlikely.

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    Re: Establish sub-forums for vbRichClient and twinBasic

    Hmm, that's very contractionary for this programming forum.
    I think it started as a VB(3,4,5,6) programming forum. VB3,4,5,6 were never free or open source.
    The first versions of VB.Net were also not free, or only free for personal use.

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    Re: Establish sub-forums for vbRichClient and twinBasic

    This site was created for discussing VB, so the various versions of VB (and things included with it like WPF) all belong here.

    Other languages/tools/libraries/etc are debatable, and are basically covered by the quote in post 14.

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    Re: Establish sub-forums for vbRichClient and twinBasic

    Quote Originally Posted by Arnoutdv View Post
    Hmm, that's very contractionary for this programming forum.
    I think it started as a VB(3,4,5,6) programming forum. VB3,4,5,6 were never free or open source.
    The first versions of VB.Net were also not free, or only free for personal use.
    Exactly.

    If someone lives from his work (charging for the software) seems to be penalized on this forum... unless you are a huge company like Microsoft, then it seems to be OK to charge for software.

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    Re: Establish sub-forums for vbRichClient and twinBasic

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    Exactly.

    If someone lives from his work (charging for the software) seems to be penalized on this forum... unless you are a huge company like Microsoft, then it seems to be OK to charge for software.
    The difference is.....
    Covering Microsoft Visual Basic drives traffic to this forum. Covering the other products being discussed drives more traffic to the products. When covering a product drives more traffic to the forum than to the product, then chances are the VBForums team will have no issue adding a forum area for it.

    This forum is part of a business that has to cover the cost of maintaining the forum. It's not a charity or free advertising platform.

    Edit: I'm sure the owners of the forum would be more than willing to sell advertising for any VB related product. I know Microsoft has done substantial spending in advertising with the companies that have owned this forum in the past.
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    Re: Establish sub-forums for vbRichClient and twinBasic

    Quote Originally Posted by brad jones View Post
    The difference is.....
    Covering Microsoft Visual Basic drives traffic to this forum. Covering the other products being discussed drives more traffic to the products. When covering a product drives more traffic to the forum than to the product, then chances are the VBForums team will have no issue adding a forum area for it.
    No product can drive traffic to this forum or any forum if you don't allow the people to know about it.
    And if you are not a big company (like MS) you cannot afford a campaign in advance. Small companies/individual developers has no chance then.

    Quote Originally Posted by brad jones View Post
    This forum is part of a business that has to cover the cost of maintaining the forum. It's not a charity or free advertising platform.

    Edit: I'm sure the owners of the forum would be more than willing to sell advertising for any VB related product. I know Microsoft has done substantial spending in advertising with the companies that have owned this forum in the past.
    If you don't allow potential projects to grow, projects that could make VB (and replacements platforms) to get more popular, this forum is doomed to disappear, because it is (mainly) about VB (look at the domain name) and VB, even VB.Net is doomed to disappear.

    I firmly believe that VB6 replacements will success (I have no idea what would happen about VB.Net), this forum can be part of this change or be forgotten with all VB stuff in some years.

    About the people that help here. Nobody makes a living doing charity either. If you don't allow to the people that help and answer questions here to show what they also offer (not for free), how do you expect that those people would make a living?
    And it is very unfair, because you are OK if they work for free in your forum answering questions, solving issues for unknown people, but not if they just mention something that they sell.
    And BTW, the price of a consultant of the level you can find on this forum must be $50/100 the hour.
    Yes, nobody forces anybody to help. I'm just mentioning it if you want this forum to have a future (with the VB replacements).

    I think it is a good place, it has helped a lot to us and to many, to many VB6 developers, but there are some things that are not right, not just. Many of us are still here because there is nowhere else to go (for now), that's the truth.

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    Re: Establish sub-forums for vbRichClient and twinBasic

    And about the traffic, who sends traffic to who: it is an ecosystem, everybody send some traffic to the others if VB is being used, but if you want to only allow the traffic in one direction (to you), you kill the ecosystem.

    How much traffic MS is sending to this forum?
    It is sending indirectly, because people search in Google about MS products (VB) and find pages of the forum.
    More or less the same would apply to other products, I think.

    To request to developers that help here answering questions (for free) to buy advertisement is ridiculous (and hypocrite).

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    ex-Administrator brad jones's Avatar
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    Re: Establish sub-forums for vbRichClient and twinBasic

    My understanding is this discussion is about creating sub-forums for products. It isn't about talking about products in the existing forums. If a product isn't driving enough discussion on its own, then it makes no sense to create a sub-forum for it.

    To the question of "How much traffic is MS sending", it isn't about them sending direct traffic, but rather about interest in the Microsoft products to drive search and direct traffic that this forum can then compete to get. If you look at Google keyword planning on Google Search, you'll see that twinbasic doesn't register, vbrichclient does get searches in the 10-100 a month, and visual basic gets 10,000 to 100,000 searches a month.

    If so few people are searching for a product that it doesn't register, then it is hard to justify creating its own sub-forum.

    "The little guy doesn't stand a chance" is a great argument. That's why start-ups look for investors and why many individuals creating products (and sites) spend a lot of time answering questions and posting links everywhere they can in the hopes they will get some viral traction. It's rough to compete with the big guys. I have my own products, so I totally get that.

    And I don't get paid at this time for posting on this forum or answering questions here either. Neither do the moderators. I do, however, sneak a link into my signature for one of my books on a regular basis, so indirectly I'm building visibility and links to my products....
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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Establish sub-forums for vbRichClient and twinBasic

    There already is a sub-forum, it's just not one sub-forum for each idea that springs up. I've stated repeatedly (admittedly, I stated it repeatedly in a row) that there can be many more threads on TwinBasic to the point that it takes over the OtherBASIC forum, at which point it will effectively HAVE it's own sub-forum, but that hasn't happened.

    Creating a special sub-forum doesn't change anything that matters. There's a sub-forum on Assembly, but it hasn't brought more people into coding in ASM. Nobody is saying, "whoa, there's a sub-forum for Assembly, I better go try that out." Not a shred of visibility is gained by creating a sub-forum. Buzz is created by starting new threads, and there is a place for that, but it's not happening. If anybody has a question about TB, they just add to the existing thread, which is getting pretty lengthy. They just aren't starting new threads, despite it being easy to do, and far more valuable than creating a sub-thread.
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    Re: Establish sub-forums for vbRichClient and twinBasic

    For vbRichClient questions, why not just prefix the title with [vbRichClient]?
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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Establish sub-forums for vbRichClient and twinBasic

    I said the same for TwinBASIC and RadBASIC. It would probably be possible to add that as an option, since .NET threads can be prefixed by the VS version. Nobody uses that feature, so it won't really help all that much.
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    Re: Establish sub-forums for vbRichClient and twinBasic

    It seems to be entirely or in large part C, looted from open source projects without attribution, and it is a server not a client. Maybe rename it something like cLootServer?

  26. #26
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Establish sub-forums for vbRichClient and twinBasic

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    It seems to be entirely or in large part C, looted from open source projects without attribution, and it is a server not a client. Maybe rename it something like cLootServer?
    What are you talking about here? vbRichClient?
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    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

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