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Thread: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

  1. #41
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by kareninstructor View Post
    Now with that said I can expect a rebuttal or two :-)
    Talking about work, some people work independently, some work with companies. Those who work independently, of course, are free to choose what they want and those who work in companies depend on the company where they work.

    Based on the type and scale, companies also vary, some have their own IT Department. In it there is one or more programmers, for mobile it can need 1 or more programmers, for desktop it can need 1 or more, for the web too. There are also companies that only need 1 programmer, the rest are like IT Support and other IT professionals. There are even companies that only need 1 IT with many skills.

    If you want to join a company, let's say they have more than one desktop programmer, of course you have to adjust the requirements to suit them.

    For companies that do not have programmers, they usually rent or buy programs from independent programmers or from vendors such as IT Consulting Firms

    And out there are many IT Consulting Firms. Of course they have a lot of similar programmers, you know what you have to prepare to join them so there's no need to talk about it anymore.

    Sometimes there are sentences that have multiple interpretations, but actually some people misunderstand

    When I say 'life is short', it is one of the messages for productivity, effectiveness and efficiency, does not mean that someone is old or will retire

    Read again my previous answer in full and you will know, please pay attention, I answered based on TS and his skill background

    So when I say 'Don't waste your time learning a new language', I mean VB desktop equivalents like C#, Delphi, Java and others.
    Because TS has skill in VB, and we all know VB is strong on Desktop, so he doesn't need to 'move', that's why I say 'never give up'...moreover VB is also strong in Web/API like ASP.NET Core

    Oh yeah, here's an addition
    take a look at WinForms, the last feature added is the Chart which is in .NET 4.0, VS2010, which is actually ready for .NET 3.5 even though it is still an extension. Do you know because of that, there are some MVPs who confidently say that winforms is obsolete, whereas as far as I know there is no official announcement from MS about it.

    At that time just because MS invested in WPF didn't mean WinForms was obsolete. See the proof now

    and if MS is currently investing a lot in C# it doesn't mean VB is dead or obsolete

    So if someone corners VB, we ask him, you have MS, don't you? if he answers no, we say don't act like you know

  2. #42
    Junior Member Cristianlt23's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by kareninstructor View Post
    That is not a good attitude if you are a developer with say five or more years left in the profession. Some developers will coast by on a given language but what happens when it's mandated to use another programming language and said developer can not get up to speed in time? There are always signals way before a mandate comes down the road. Sure some can dictate that they will only work with one language yet that in many cases limits projects to write.

    Don't get me wrong, I think VB.NET is a great language and may have many years left but it's really not what should be consider, instead where is my pay check coming from when mandated to jump ship on, in this case VB.

    Where I work prerequisites are TypeScript, JQuery, C#, BootStrap, SASS Git Actions, EF Core, ASP.NET Core, unit testing, mocking for starters. Even mention VB of any edition will have a candidate not to make it to in person interviews. Same goes for four child companies. Total developers 200, not one using VB of any edition.

    Now with that said I can expect a rebuttal or two :-)
    this is your work niche!

    Not giving up on a language brought python into fashion again, and what about IBM with its Watson? it is not a language listed in the ranking.

    Don't say that a certain programming language is not worth it to people, don't just be based on the market, behind a language there is also science.

  3. #43
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cristianlt23 View Post
    this is your work niche!

    Not giving up on a language brought python into fashion again, and what about IBM with its Watson? it is not a language listed in the ranking.

    Don't say that a certain programming language is not worth it to people, don't just be based on the market, behind a language there is also science.
    You sound like the guys in the VB6 section. All feelings and no pragmatism. Going against the market is counter-productive 99% of the time.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  4. #44
    Junior Member Cristianlt23's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    You sound like the guys in the VB6 section. All feelings and no pragmatism. Going against the market is counter-productive 99% of the time.
    The best example is Python developers were counterproductive and are now on top.

    If they were listening to people who say they should always follow another programming language, Python would be dead 20 years ago.

    And yes, I still find VB.NET better than C#, I still find it more productive and the very few times I need to complete something I use C#
    Last edited by Cristianlt23; Sep 11th, 2021 at 01:04 PM.

  5. #45
    Junior Member Cristianlt23's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by djancuk View Post
    Talking about work, some people work independently, some work with companies. Those who work independently, of course, are free to choose what they want and those who work in companies depend on the company where they work.

    Based on the type and scale, companies also vary, some have their own IT Department. In it there is one or more programmers, for mobile it can need 1 or more programmers, for desktop it can need 1 or more, for the web too. There are also companies that only need 1 programmer, the rest are like IT Support and other IT professionals. There are even companies that only need 1 IT with many skills.

    If you want to join a company, let's say they have more than one desktop programmer, of course you have to adjust the requirements to suit them.

    For companies that do not have programmers, they usually rent or buy programs from independent programmers or from vendors such as IT Consulting Firms

    And out there are many IT Consulting Firms. Of course they have a lot of similar programmers, you know what you have to prepare to join them so there's no need to talk about it anymore.

    Sometimes there are sentences that have multiple interpretations, but actually some people misunderstand

    When I say 'life is short', it is one of the messages for productivity, effectiveness and efficiency, does not mean that someone is old or will retire

    Read again my previous answer in full and you will know, please pay attention, I answered based on TS and his skill background

    So when I say 'Don't waste your time learning a new language', I mean VB desktop equivalents like C#, Delphi, Java and others.
    Because TS has skill in VB, and we all know VB is strong on Desktop, so he doesn't need to 'move', that's why I say 'never give up'...moreover VB is also strong in Web/API like ASP.NET Core

    Oh yeah, here's an addition
    take a look at WinForms, the last feature added is the Chart which is in .NET 4.0, VS2010, which is actually ready for .NET 3.5 even though it is still an extension. Do you know because of that, there are some MVPs who confidently say that winforms is obsolete, whereas as far as I know there is no official announcement from MS about it.

    At that time just because MS invested in WPF didn't mean WinForms was obsolete. See the proof now

    and if MS is currently investing a lot in C# it doesn't mean VB is dead or obsolete

    So if someone corners VB, we ask him, you have MS, don't you? if he answers no, we say don't act like you know

    Fantástica sua resposta.

    Parabéns, este é um excelente conselho.

  6. #46
    Karen Payne MVP kareninstructor's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    You sound like the guys in the VB6 section. All feelings and no pragmatism. Going against the market is counter-productive 99% of the time.
    Totally agree

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    Karen Payne MVP kareninstructor's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    My last comment on this topic.

    Live in stone-age or not, that is your choice.

  8. #48
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    You sound like the guys in the VB6 section. All feelings and no pragmatism. Going against the market is counter-productive 99% of the time.
    Except that I'm not sure I understand what position anybody has. I read what djancuk wrote differently from the rest of you, and agreed with it.

    The bottom line is that we never know where things are going to go. If you spend your life nervously jumping on any perceived trend, you won't be left behind and you'll be wrong more often than you're right.
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  9. #49
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    The bottom line is that we never know where things are going to go.
    Most times yes but this is not one of those cases. It's very obvious what VB.Net's future is just as it was obvious what VB6's future would be when MS went introduced .Net as the underlying platform for Visual Basic.

    I think the difference between most folks and myself is that they cannot separate their love for VB from the actual facts about the language. We could love VB as much as we want, it wouldn't change the fact that more and more people are choosing C# over it and Microsoft themselves have taken notice which is why we do not see Visual Basic support in all .Net technologies like Xamarin and Blazor. It's just not wise to bet on VB.Net for the future.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  10. #50
    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Someone always has to rank on JavaScript - a language I have come to love.

    Only in JavaScript will a line of code like this:

    strField = g_objGMaker[ggmOff].gmSource.sourceOrig[i][allColumns[colloop].field].toUpperCase();

    Be corrected by adding || ""

    strField = (g_objGMaker[ggmOff].gmSource.sourceOrig[i][allColumns[colloop].field] || "").toUpperCase();

    In the bug correction above, the "field name" (allColumns[colloop].field) is NOT found in the object array that represents my data source (...gmSource.sourceOrig[i]). This returns an error - {fieldname} is undefined.

    || is the OR operator - and it's used here to take any "falsy" value and give it a default value.

    "undefined" is "falsy", so in those cases the "" (empty string) will be returned.

    ?? is another operator that does this - it's just more selective on what it considers "falsy".

    JS Rules!

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  11. #51
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by kareninstructor View Post
    Live in stone-age or not, that is your choice.
    I don't agree with that. In fact I fundamentally disagree. This may be correct approach for commercially-led programming. For many of us though, programming decisions are not always based upon commercial fundamentals. Some of us are hobbyists and we program simply because we like to.

    I am also an artist amongst many other things and I will not have my chosen tools dictated by a mega corporation and I feel the same way about programming as I do about my art. I simply want to use a tool I am familiar with and use it to the best of my ability.

    It should not be too difficult to allow developers to use the tool they want to use. Coercing users to follow their current corporate line is something that Microsoft does very well, the trouble is, a lot of those corporate decisions have been proven over time to be wrong (we don't have to name them all here). The way I feel, is that I need to be persuaded by the benefits of the new tool, they need to improve over the old in a substantive manner that I can appreciate in my daily programming tasks, and those benefits need to outweigh the pain of learning a new language, largely from scratch.
    If I cannot perceive the overall advantage is in my favour then I will stay exactly where I am, thank you very much. That applies to all facets of my life, not just programming languages.

    At the moment I cannot perceive the benefit to outweigh the overall pain. Shifting corporate goalposts and directions from MS management are one of the elements that cloud my ability to make a decision to run with any Microsoft product. Thank Goodness for open source and alternative small commercial offerings, long live competition and death to monopolies!


    Quote Originally Posted by kareninstructor View Post
    My last comment on this topic.
    We'll see...
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by szlamany View Post
    a language I have come to love.
    I love javascript too. I feel it is akin to BASIC in some ways, as a tool you can hack some code together, it works for me.
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

  13. #53
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    Most times yes but this is not one of those cases. It's very obvious what VB.Net's future is just as it was obvious what VB6's future would be when MS went introduced .Net as the underlying platform for Visual Basic.

    I think the difference between most folks and myself is that they cannot separate their love for VB from the actual facts about the language. We could love VB as much as we want, it wouldn't change the fact that more and more people are choosing C# over it and Microsoft themselves have taken notice which is why we do not see Visual Basic support in all .Net technologies like Xamarin and Blazor. It's just not wise to bet on VB.Net for the future.
    That's just a bit more tea-leaf reading. Xamarin wasn't an MS technology, so the fact that it is in C# has to do with those who wrote it, not MS. You may have a point when it comes to ASP.NET, or you may not. Still, it makes no difference. If you believe the road leads in one direction, then follow it. If you are right, you can say, "I told you so." If you are wrong...I'm sure you'll just go quiet and hope that everybody forgets your statements. It won't be the first time on this forum.
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    Frenzied Member PlausiblyDamp's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    That's just a bit more tea-leaf reading. Xamarin wasn't an MS technology, so the fact that it is in C# has to do with those who wrote it, not MS. You may have a point when it comes to ASP.NET, or you may not. Still, it makes no difference. If you believe the road leads in one direction, then follow it. If you are right, you can say, "I told you so." If you are wrong...I'm sure you'll just go quiet and hope that everybody forgets your statements. It won't be the first time on this forum.
    I would say VB.Net not getting things like Blazor is entirely down to the VB.Net community, historically they have always seemed reluctant to move to newer technologies. This is one of the reasons in .Net core Razor no longer supported the VB.Net syntax (see https://github.com/dotnet/vblang/iss...ment-354927626 )

  15. #55
    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    I'm working with a client that just purchased a COBOL based system with a screen-scraper type of front end that uses Putty (for those who know these old systems)...

    Because the vendor and the system are mature and stable...

    For over a million dollars - 18 months into implementation now. Going live in 33 weeks (I keep track of the weekly countdown).

    They have an MS SQL "data warehouse/report region" that updates immediately as data is saved from the UI.

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  16. #56
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    That's just a bit more tea-leaf reading. Xamarin wasn't an MS technology, so the fact that it is in C# has to do with those who wrote it, not MS. You may have a point when it comes to ASP.NET, or you may not. Still, it makes no difference. If you believe the road leads in one direction, then follow it. If you are right, you can say, "I told you so." If you are wrong...I'm sure you'll just go quiet and hope that everybody forgets your statements. It won't be the first time on this forum.
    I'm not a young guy. Not an old guy either but I've been with Microsoft since like DOS 2. I've seen it all come and go. I've seen BASICA replaced by QuickBasic. I've seen Windows kill off DOS. I've seen the Windows NT Kernel kill off the DOS Kernel of Windows 95/98. I've seen multiple versions of SQL Server killed off by newer versions. I've seen multiple versions of VB killed off by newer versions of VB. I've seen TCP/IP kill of IPX/SPX.

    I've seen Broadband kill off dial-up. I've seen Yahoo kill off all it's competitors like WebCrawler, Alta-Vista and Excite.com and I've seen Google come in and kill Yahoo off, though in this case Yahoo is not entirely dead yet. Remember GeoCities and AngelFire of the early internet? I've seen those go from massive communities that dominated the internet to non-existence though I'm not sure exactly what killed them off. Remember the old school way of getting pirated software? You used to search for something called Warez when you wanted to pirate games, programs or movies. Napster started the revolution that would eventually replace this way of pirating digital content. Napster started with MP3s, then Kazaa, Limewire and a whole host of others came after and they went beyond just MP3s. Then Bittorent came along and basically killed off all this.

    I've seen PhotoShop kill off CorelDraw. I've seen Word kill off WordPerfect.

    I've seen 32 bit CPUs kill off 16 bit CPUs and now 64 bit CPUs has more or less killed off 32 bit CPUs. SSE, AVX and similar technologies have practically killed off the x87 FPU though FPUs aren't completely dead yet. I doubt they would last beyond 10 more years. The integrated x86 FPU itself killed off much older software implementations of floating point math and non-integrated floating point coprocessors.

    I've seen hardware accelerated texture mappers kill off software renderers. Here's another I'm intimately familiar with, the evolution of 3D engines for first person shooters. It started with games like Wolvenstein, Corridor 7, Blake Stone and Catacombs. These games represented their worlds completely as 2D geometric data. Doom later came along with a bunch of clones like Heretic, Hexen and Duke Nukem by Ken Silverman that utilized a 2.5D geometry internally. Then Quake came with full 3D internal geometry and completely killed off this earlier way of designing FPS games. Along the way I always watch these games go from sprite-based graphics to using full 3D meshes. Old school tricks like Quake 3's fast inverse square root was killed off by modern CPU vendors implementing them in hardware. This also feeds into the earlier point about hardware acceleration vs software rendering. Software rendering utilized a lot of tricks in similar vein to the fast inverse square root. Those tricks were all completely killed off by hardware acceleration.

    Here's another one I went through that was very interesting in that there were a lot of parallels can be drawn to this kind of topic. Starcraft being killed off by StarCraft 2. I played a lot of StarCraft back in the day. It was at the time, the most popular completive online game in the world. StarCraft was single handedly responsible for what ESports is today. When StarCraft 2 was announced, I saw a lot of the exact same arguments I've seen here. Lots of people got up in their feelings and trash talked StarCraft 2 using arguments that were eerily similar to the ones used by programmers when comparing one language to another, not unlike what we see in VB6 vs VB.Net topics. There was this massive clash between people who thought the old was perfect, just like VB6 programmers here, and the people like me who embraced the new. If you think a VB6 vs VB.Net debate gets heated, I wish you could see the old StarCraft vs Starcraft 2 debates. I even got into a few myself, not unlike what I do here with this VB6 vs VB.Net thing(guess which side I took ). Do you know what eventually happened? StarCraft 2 killed off StarCraft. The old Battle.Net servers went from teeming with activity to nearly completely dead and there was nothing the old holdouts could do about it no matter how much noise they made. Just like VB6 programmers trash talked MS for abandoning VB6, old StarCraft players trash talked Blizzard for abandoning StarCraft for StarCraft 2. In the end, no one cared. It still died. And today, Starcraft 2 has been more of less killed off by the rise in popularity of MOBAs like DOTA and League of Legends.

    Also while on this topic of StarCraft, there was another death, the death of buying games. You had to buy games like StarCraft and Starcraft 2 but newer games like League of Legends are free to play and make their money through micro-transactions. This new free to play model killed off the old model where you had to buy these games. Sure, a lot of people still sell games but the market is completely dominated by free to play games that utilize micro-transactions.

    I've lived through all of this. It's like watching history repeating itself over and over and over and over again. I like to think I can recognize the signs. I also saw a lot of the same signs when .Net came in after VB6. My love for VB6 and listening to a bunch of fools on in the internet trash talk .Net made me stay a lot longer than I should have but I would be lying if I said that I didn't see the signs that VB6 was done in those days. I am seeing those same signs with VB.Net today. Let me tell you, when a new thing replaces an old thing, it's never sudden. It's always a slow death. Going back to the Starcraft thing, it was the quickest death I have ever seen and even that took about 2 years.

    I'm really trying to see things from you guys' point of view but I'm afraid I cannot in good faith suggest that VB.Net has an kind of future. I've seen this happen too many times. I'll tell you something else too, I wish I was wrong. I hope I'm wrong. I really do think C# is a better language but I'm not going to lie, I much prefer VB.Net. I already have the muscle memory for it. Retraining myself for C# is going to be a little annoying and I wish I didn't have to do it but I have to. The writing is on the wall. I just don't see the point in staying in VB.Net unless all you're going to do is write Windows Desktop applications for the rest of your days.
    Last edited by Niya; Sep 14th, 2021 at 07:16 PM.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  17. #57
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Yeah, if you're so old, you also remember all the predictions that Apple would off DOS, Linux would off Windows, SCSI (being clearly superior) would replace IDE, and so on. You also probably realize that the software to use hardware texture mappers existed before the hardware did, such that the change was organic for most people.

    In this case, it doesn't really matter, though. The two languages are interchangeable.

    I'm just tired of people prophesying doom and trying to get people to jump ship because their view into the palantir convinced them what the future MUST bring.
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  18. #58
    Junior Member Cristianlt23's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    VB.NET is of a very different magnitude than VB6, VB.NET is open source, which in itself is fantastic!

    A professional and experienced VB.NET programmer considers C# as an add-on and therefore we can take VB.NET wherever we want, including in Xamarin.

    A serious company understands that VB.NET today is free from fads and 6-by-half-dozen changes.

    I particularly prefer to have tools on my work belt that I will actually use and be efficient, I'm not too interested in having multiple options with minimal evolution to solve the same problems, C# is already full of pointless and useless changes, we also have to consider that C# is a commercial product for MS and what matters most is being attractive.

    I have a certain concern that C # becomes an aberration in the world of programming languages, today it wants to please all niches and we know it usually doesn't work well, this current MS strategy with C # motivates me to think about the future in Rust seems to be more consistent.

    VB.NET has the tools you need to develop, it's that simple!

    Therefore, those who want to change the learning curve in favor of greater productivity, or lower training costs, start looking at VB.NET as an option because they know that today it will only evolve very efficiently.

    Do you think Delphi is dead? today it is used in many serious companies that value the productivity and reliability of a product that will not have constant risks and changes at every moment full of adventures. I would like VB.NET to also follow this path
    Last edited by Cristianlt23; Sep 19th, 2021 at 02:20 PM.

  19. #59
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Yeah, if you're so old, you also remember all the predictions that Apple would off DOS, Linux would off Windows, SCSI (being clearly superior) would replace IDE, and so on.
    Actually Linux has already won. However Linux vs Windows is an odd one. I think most Windows users would be extremely surprised at just how popular Linux really is. Linux is everywhere and I mean everywhere. The thing is though, Linux is like the Mafia. They're everywhere and you feel their influence all round you but you just don't see them. They run everything quietly from behind the scenes. I wouldn't be surprised if this very forum was ran on a Linux server. Windows is front and center, out in the open. Windows isn't going anywhere anytime soon but if you believe nothing else, believe this, Linux will be around long after Windows is gone. This will probably not be in our lifetime though. Linux failed in one main category that prevents it from completely overtaking Windows which is that your Grandma and your secretary can't use it. Grandma can't be bothered to figure out a bunch of sudo commands but she can point and click easily enough.

    IDE was replaced, just not by SCSI. The thing with some of these predictions is that a lot of people don't wait to see what is happening. SCSI came along and had a lot of advantages over IDE and a lot of people were quick to predict the demise of IDE but did they actually wait to see how it affected the landscape before making these predictions? It was the same with Betamax vs VHS and Zip disks. Remember Zip disks? Clearly superior to the 1.44 floppy but it didn't kill off the floppy. USB thumb drives did that much later.

    I don't say what I say about VB.Net and C# lightly. I didn't just get up one morning and decided that VB.Net was doomed. I've been seeing signs of decline for years and Microsoft's sudden announcement that they were putting VB.Net in maintenance mode was the trumpet that sounded the alarm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    You also probably realize that the software to use hardware texture mappers existed before the hardware did, such that the change was organic for most people.
    You don't think that there were people that still preferred software renderers? The ZDOOM port of the DOOM engine to this day still uses a software renderer despite a huge number of modern enhancements. The software renderer was kept because of similar of puritan ideals to the ones we see here on these forums in regards to older technology like VB6.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I'm just tired of people prophesying doom and trying to get people to jump ship because their view into the palantir convinced them what the future MUST bring.
    I really don't get why this would upset anyone. It just seems like the natural course of progress.
    Last edited by Niya; Sep 14th, 2021 at 08:09 PM.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

    Copy/move files using Windows Shell

    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  20. #60
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    At the end of the day. People can do what they want. The OP asked for an opinion and I gave one. It is my honest opinion that VB.Net is in decline and C# is a better bet. Like I don't know what you all want me to say. This is how what I believe and it is based on observations I've made about the landscape, and it is based on my own experiences over the years. I get that it doesn't make a lot of people happy to hear me say it but what would you have me do? Pretend I believe otherwise? I don't. I'm sorry I just don't. I'm really sorry if it upsets some of you but this is the way I see it. Perhaps I'm wrong and we could all rejoice if that proves to be the case eventually. And if I'm proven wrong, I'd be the first to say so.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

    Copy/move files using Windows Shell

    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  21. #61
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    In this case, it doesn't really matter, though. The two languages are interchangeable.
    This used to be the case. It's not so anymore. Ref types in C# and stack allocations are two examples of things the C# compiler gives you access to that the VB compiler does not. Someone already made a thread on these forums complaining about this. They were trying to use a library written in C# for C# and VB.Net just wasn't having it. This is how it starts.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

    Copy/move files using Windows Shell

    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  22. #62
    Junior Member Cristianlt23's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    @Niya

    Your development knowledge is fantastic, congratulations

    How about joining us in a community dedicated to developing and improving the VB.NET language?

    I'm sure you can contribute a lot to the dialect!

    I leave the address for you and for anyone interested in participating directly in the development and improvement of a programming language and compiler (open source)

    https://gitter.im/VB-NET/community?source=orgpage#

    Featured Names:

    Anthony D. Green
    Cyrus Najmabadi
    Paul M Cohen
    Kathleen Dollard
    Cory Smith
    Mohammad Hamdy Ghanem
    Karen Payne - Note: Hope she comes back to help someday
    Gratitude
    Last edited by Cristianlt23; Sep 15th, 2021 at 02:16 PM.

  23. #63
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cristianlt23 View Post
    @Niya

    Your development knowledge is fantastic, congratulations

    How about joining us in a community dedicated to developing and improving the VB.NET language?

    I'm sure you can contribute a lot to the dialect!

    I leave the address for you and for anyone interested in participating directly in the development and improvement of a programming language and compiler (open source)

    https://gitter.im/VB-NET/community?source=orgpage#

    Featured Names:

    Anthony D. Green
    Cyrus Najmabadi
    Paul M Cohen
    Kathleen Dollard
    Cory Smith
    Mohammad Hamdy Ghanem
    Karen Payne - Note: Hope she comes back to help someday
    Gratitude
    Ooo....that looks interesting. I'll be sure to check it out in detail when I get some time and see what you guys got going on there.

    EDIT:

    Just briefly checked it out and saw a discussion on GoTo. I'd have love to get in on that. I would have had a lot to say there. This looks interesting. What is the goal of this anyway?
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

    Copy/move files using Windows Shell

    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  24. #64
    Junior Member Cristianlt23's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    Ooo....that looks interesting. I'll be sure to check it out in detail when I get some time and see what you guys got going on there.

    EDIT:

    Just briefly checked it out and saw a discussion on GoTo. I'd have love to get in on that. I would have had a lot to say there. This looks interesting. What is the goal of this anyway?
    Niya

    we're still new to open source development, but there's a lot of goodwill.

    Cyrus Najmabadi, Cory Smith >> work more with the evolution of syntax trying to make it less verbose and more practical

    Paul M Cohen >> works on a C# to VB.NET converter and also directly with Roslyn with ideas and improvements

    Mohammad Hamdy Ghanem >> Works with modern Small Basic and web development with Vazor.

    we need people with your vast knowledge, come talk to us, Cory Smith can explain everything to you much better

    look here

    https://github.com/CommunityVB/Main

    Last edited by Cristianlt23; Sep 16th, 2021 at 05:11 PM.

  25. #65
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cristianlt23 View Post
    Niya

    we're still new to open source development, but there's a lot of goodwill.

    Cyrus Najmabadi, Cory Smith >> work more with the evolution of syntax trying to make it less verbose and more practical

    Paul M Cohen >> works on a C# to VB.NET converter and also directly with Roslyn with ideas and improvements

    Mohammad Hamdy Ghanem >> Works with modern Small Basic and web development with Vazor.

    we need people with your vast knowledge, come talk to us, Cory Smith can explain everything to you much better

    look here

    https://github.com/CommunityVB/Main

    I appreciate the vote of confidence but language development is one of my weaker areas. There's a whole lot of science behind that like lexical analysis, abstract syntax trees, code generation, compiler optimization etc that I would need to learn. Historically my strongest domain has been raster graphics and TCP/IP networking.

    However, I wouldn't mind sharing my thoughts on some of the things I've learned in all my experience programming on Windows and the different languages and paradigms I've come across during all this time. I can definitely share a lot of ideas there.

    Aside from posting on these forums a lot these days, I do have quite a bit on my plate behind the scenes. When I get some of those things off my plate, I will definitely come around and see what you guys have going on. Note though, that while I 100% support your endeavors, it doesn't change my belief. I do have great respect for people actually willing to put in the work to back up their beliefs rather than complain and bash Microsoft so you guys definitely have my respect for that. I'll try to come through and see if I can contribute for you guys, even if it's just to pitch you guys a few ideas.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

    Copy/move files using Windows Shell

    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  26. #66
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    Historically my strongest domain has been raster graphics
    Mostly involving mermaids....heh!
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  27. #67
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Mostly involving mermaids....heh!
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

    Copy/move files using Windows Shell

    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  28. #68
    Junior Member Cristianlt23's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    @Niya

    I can definitely share a lot of ideas there.
    and in the ideas that the real treasure lies.


    Note, however, that although I support your efforts 100%, it doesn't change my belief.
    I fully respect your belief and congratulations for always evolving and seeking what is most modern in the world of development.


    I have great respect for people who are really willing to work to support their beliefs rather than complain and criticize Microsoft, so you definitely have my respect for that.
    gratitude for the beautiful words

    I'll try to get in touch and see if I can contribute to you, even if it's just to get some ideas.
    It will be a great pleasure to have you and everyone here interested in working with open source projects for VB.NET
    Last edited by Cristianlt23; Sep 18th, 2021 at 04:03 PM.

  29. #69
    Karen Payne MVP kareninstructor's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cristianlt23 View Post
    @Niya

    Your development knowledge is fantastic, congratulations

    How about joining us in a community dedicated to developing and improving the VB.NET language?

    I'm sure you can contribute a lot to the dialect!

    I leave the address for you and for anyone interested in participating directly in the development and improvement of a programming language and compiler (open source)

    https://gitter.im/VB-NET/community?source=orgpage#

    Featured Names:

    Anthony D. Green
    Cyrus Najmabadi
    Paul M Cohen
    Kathleen Dollard
    Cory Smith
    Mohammad Hamdy Ghanem
    Karen Payne - Note: Hope she comes back to help someday
    Gratitude
    Been getting up to speed with Rider for working with VB.NET then I will have more contributions.

  30. #70
    Junior Member Cristianlt23's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by kareninstructor View Post
    Been getting up to speed with Rider for working with VB.NET then I will have more contributions.
    this is definitely great news

    Karen Payne you are and will always be very important to the entire VB ecosystem, your future contributions will always be highly anticipated

    I was forgetting, congratulations on working with Rider, it's definitely a great tool.

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