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Thread: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

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    How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Sorry if this is not a relevant question, but a serious issue for me. I would like some advice from people who have worked with programming for a long time.

    1, I have a fair amount of engineering calculation software (lot of plots and matrix operations) in VB6 and have managed to convert two of them to VB.net. I think I am yet to see any significant benefits from this. Was this necessary? What did I gain?

    2, And I am hearing from others that VB.net will soon be obsolete and I will be forced to switch over to Python or C# or something (not Java, hopefully). This will be a big task, but if I have to leave VB.net within 5 years, I should not convert the rest of my software to VB.net but take the pains to learn Python or C# and slowly start converting the old VB3 (mostly recompiled in VB6) code. Any advice on what the future should be for engineering calculation programming?

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    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by VisualBeginner.NET View Post
    Sorry if this is not a relevant question, but a serious issue for me. I would like some advice from people who have worked with programming for a long time.

    1, I have a fair amount of engineering calculation software (lot of plots and matrix operations) in VB6 and have managed to convert two of them to VB.net. I think I am yet to see any significant benefits from this. Was this necessary? What did I gain?
    According to the official Microsoft position:
    The Visual Basic team is committed to "It Just Works" compatibility for Visual Basic 6.0 applications on the following supported Windows operating systems:
    - Windows 10
    - Windows 8.1
    - Windows 7
    - Windows Server 2019
    - Windows Server 2016
    - Windows Server 2012 including R2
    - Windows Server 2008 including R2
    So now you're working in a language that is actively being maintained and can easily be distributed to most everyday people. If you wanted to rewrite some of your code, then you would also gain pure OOP patterns, anonymous functions, and asynchronous/parallel programming.

    Quote Originally Posted by VisualBeginner.NET View Post
    2, And I am hearing from others that VB.net will soon be obsolete and I will be forced to switch over to Python or C# or something (not Java, hopefully). This will be a big task, but if I have to leave VB.net within 5 years, I should not convert the rest of my software to VB.net but take the pains to learn Python or C# and slowly start converting the old VB3 (mostly recompiled in VB6) code. Any advice on what the future should be for engineering calculation programming?
    You will need to make this judgement call. Microsoft hasn't released anything, but at the same time they are adding new features to C# that is not included in VB.NET so take that for what it is. I personally think that the traditional desktop applications are a dying breed and so I switched to web focusing on mobile first development. Several years ago this was mostly jQuery but as of today jQuery seems to be out of favor and I'm doing more Angular. However, at the same time, I still get contract jobs that require desktop applications and I still use Visual Basic .NET.

    If you want my advice, don't put all your eggs in one basket and never stop learning.
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    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    @dday9 - I still use (and like) jQuery...

    What do you find different / better about Angular?

    TIA!

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    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by szlamany View Post
    @dday9 - I still use (and like) jQuery...

    What do you find different / better about Angular?

    TIA!
    I still use jQuery on some projects and I personally like it. My point was that the clients I work with in recent years have been requesting Angular more and more.
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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    For the first question: VB6 applications still work fine, but the IDE is now problematic. The language has been out of maintenance for over 15 years, by now. Finding a legal copy of VB6 is difficult, potentially expensive, but certainly not impossible. Getting the IDE to run on Windows 10 is difficult, but entirely possible.

    Do any of those factors mean that you HAVE to change languages? No, probably not, but they might suggest that you do. It all comes down to how important you feel those points are for what you are doing. If you don't think they matter to you, then there is no fundamental need to move away from VB6. If you think those points matter, then you will certainly need to move away from VB6. Various people prefer various languages, but it's just personal preference. However, you should also be aware that there are people who are VERY adamant in their views about the superiority of one language or another, and/or are very strident in their views. Don't listen too closely to anybody who says that you MUST do one thing or another. We're all just guessing as to what the future holds.

    Personally, I believe that VB.NET will be around for a VERY long time. What MS has said is essentially just that. The people who say that it is being abandoned are basing it on interpreting the statements and actions of MS. There has been no clear statement that VB will be abandoned, and some explicit statements that it will NOT be abandoned. However, it is as DDay has said: There are features being added to C#, while MS has stated that VB will change more slowly and won't be receiving some of the changes that C# is receiving. Personally, this doesn't bother me a bit, because the vast majority of the changes they are bringing to C# are fundamentally worthless. By worthless, I mean that they don't allow you to do anything that you couldn't already do, they are just giving you more ways to do the same thing using different mechanisms. Those new mechanisms are not necessarily better in any way, and sometimes are worse. It's almost like MS is trying to make the language do what you mean, not what you say: Whatever misguided construct you come up with will do SOMETHING, and might even do what you want. Some others seem like they are about allowing you to write one line that does what four lines did before, even though the one line runs a bit slower. That's a trade-off that is a whole lot more complicated than my simple statement makes it appear, so it may be justified. Still, it isn't strictly necessary, and whether or not it is even beneficial is a matter for debate.

    Furthermore, .NET is .NET. I do think it is good to be able to read C#, whether you write in it or not. However, if you write in VB, you can work with C#. For example, you could write dlls in VB.NET and call them, debug them, and so on, from a C# project. If taken to the extreme, you can write your entire program as a VB dll and reference it from a C# project where the C# project may be nothing more than a method that calls a method in the dll. I'm not sure that you could make the C# project as small as three lines of code, but you should be able to get pretty close to that. For that reason, VB.NET will be viable for decades, even if MS were to abandon it tomorrow. The only way it would not be viable is if Windows ceased to exist, and that seems unlikely.

    Still, the bottom line is this: Everybody is guessing about the future. There is a strong bias favoring catastrophic predictions. For example, the sun will come up tomorrow, but people don't make big announcements about that. The big announcement would be if it were to NOT come up tomorrow. Computer languages are no different. None of us knows what will happen, and people who want to predict get a whole lot more traction predicting doom.

    One other point is that those who predict doom when it comes to computers are right. It is now the early 2020's. If you wrote programs just twenty years back, you wrote in different languages for different hardware with RADICALLY different constraints. This industry is changing VERY fast relative to anything we are familiar with, and it always has been. If you are anxious about change, get out of computing, because the one thing we can say with absolute certainty is this: Whatever choice you make, you will be wrong...given enough time.
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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    I'm not a fan of Angular. It feels like the flavor of the day, to me. JQuery may not be the future, but I really doubt that Angular is, either.
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    For your VB6 code you need to be aware of twinBASIC.

    This is a VB6 compatible language currently under development. It offers 64 bit compilation and cross platform support. It uses the Visual Studio Code IDE.

    Even though it is still in development, many users are finding you can copy VB6 code to twinBASIC and have it work first time.

    There is a Preview version available for download.

    https://twinbasic.com/

    Here is the development roadmap: https://github.com/WaynePhillipsEA/twinbasic/issues/335

    There is further discussion here in the forum: https://www.vbforums.com/showthread....0181-TwinBasic

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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    On the question How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?.

    5,
    What do you mean 5?
    4,
    I don't understand wh.
    3,
    Yes you keep telling bu,
    2,
    But if , I, I
    1,
    Boooooommmmmmm!!!!

    But seriously it depends if you are working by yourself or on a company that uses VB and if that company will change that in the future or not.
    We still have some programs written in .Net 1.1 , I'm not sure C# was even useful back then but in parallel we switched to C# so I can't give up VB (and I don't want for now) but I have to re learn C#.
    .

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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    According to the official Microsoft position:

    So now you're working in a language that is actively being maintained and can easily be distributed to most everyday people. If you wanted to rewrite some of your code, then you would also gain pure OOP patterns, anonymous functions, and asynchronous/parallel programming.

    You will need to make this judgement call. Microsoft hasn't released anything, but at the same time they are adding new features to C# that is not included in VB.NET so take that for what it is. I personally think that the traditional desktop applications are a dying breed and so I switched to web focusing on mobile first development. Several years ago this was mostly jQuery but as of today jQuery seems to be out of favor and I'm doing more Angular. However, at the same time, I still get contract jobs that require desktop applications and I still use Visual Basic .NET.

    If you want my advice, don't put all your eggs in one basket and never stop learning.
    I definitely like the advice to not stop learning. However, I have a million things on the list to be learnt. And I have a full time job. And I am not a programmer by profession but an engineer. So I will have to prioritise things, and allocate limited amounts of time to learning various new things.

    Do you see a threat to VB.net in 10 years? Like they have made VB3 practically unusable on today's computers, is it likely that VB.net will be forced out in a few years?

    The step from VB.net to C# is not that big. It is just a little different syntax. But would Microsoft make it impossible to use that also in a similar amount of time as VB.net?

    Most of the software is for my own use, but one project is given to others also. So I have to consider that and not expect them to maintain 10 year old machines just to run my software.

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    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    I wasnít a programmer up until a few years ago. I used to own an insurance agency and programmed as a hobby.

    But do I see VB.NET going away anytime soon? No. What I see are clients using less desktop applications and more mobile/web.
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Well, I will bet that VB6 or its direct replacement (TwinBasic or RADBasic but not VB.NET) will be around for as long, if not longer than VB.NET. Certainly some of us will still be programming in VB6 when the announcement for the EOL of VB.NET is announced.
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    Well, I will bet that VB6 or its direct replacement (TwinBasic or RADBasic but not VB.NET) will be around for as long, if not longer than VB.NET. Certainly some of us will still be programming in VB6 when the announcement for the EOL of VB.NET is announced.
    I'll take that bet. Seems like nothing ever dies when it comes to programming language. Just the pool of aficionados becomes smaller and more passionate.
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    For the first question: VB6 applications still work fine, but the IDE is now problematic.

    etc.

    If you are anxious about change, get out of computing, because the one thing we can say with absolute certainty is this: Whatever choice you make, you will be wrong...given enough time.
    This has been a very good reply. For my engineering work, VB3 was optimal, but it is more or less impossible to use it today (and give the .exe to others). Installing VB6 on Windows 10 is not easy and appearance of the .exe is also becoming an issue for some.

    I gather from several responses that VB.net is almost a necessity now, and is not likely to disappear in 10 years. At the same time, it is useful to be able to read C# code (and yes, that I can, and have even coded a little program to add/multiply two numbers from text boxes and display the result on a label.) It seems it is not necessary to shift to C# for my work, but it would be wonderful to learn (however easy it may look once I have done it once) how to make DLLs (class libraries?) in VB.net and call them from small C# .exe.

    I think I will continue with VB.net and convert the other VB6 code to VB.net, and learn a little more about C#.

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    Fanatic Member 2kaud's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Any advice on what the future should be for engineering calculation programming?
    Well Fortran has been around since 1957 and is still going strong for engineering type programs and is particularly strong in matrix/array operations....
    All advice is offered in good faith only. You are ultimately responsible for the effects of your programs and the integrity of the machines they run on. Anything I post, code snippets, advice, etc is licensed as Public Domain https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/

    C++20 Compiler: Microsoft VS2019 (16.11.4)

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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2kaud View Post
    Well Fortran has been around since 1957 and is still going strong for engineering type programs and is particularly strong in matrix/array operations....
    I don't think there are any free compilers for Visual Fortran. I suspect Microsoft will probably not allow it to run smoothly just like older versions of VB.

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    Fanatic Member 2kaud's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    There is a free Intel Fortran compiler which is recognized by VS IDE. You can then create and compile Fortran from within VS.

    https://software.intel.com/content/w...per-tools.html

    Create an account and sign in.

    Click Get the Base Kit
    Chose Windows Local and download file

    Click Intel HPC Toolkit and download file


    Now double click the file for the Base Kit

    Follow instructions and make sure the Integration With Current Version of VS is marked

    Then double click the file for HPC Toolkit and install it.

    This will install Fortran.

    In VS You can now create a new Intel Fortran project...

    Have fun!

    PS There is a useful booklet "Programming with Visual Studio: Fortran & Python & C++"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    which explains in detail how to install VS, Intel Fortran and Python so that they can be used from within VS.

    Note that this doesn't cover how to program - just how to install and get things working.
    All advice is offered in good faith only. You are ultimately responsible for the effects of your programs and the integrity of the machines they run on. Anything I post, code snippets, advice, etc is licensed as Public Domain https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/

    C++20 Compiler: Microsoft VS2019 (16.11.4)

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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Oh yes, we are now recommending Fortran...These threads start sensibly and degrade to mad suggestions quite quickly.

    My "mad" suggestion is QB64, a thriving community, a direction, a GUI, and being the 64bit bastard child of VB6's great grandDaddy, it is thoroughly BASIC and with some tweaking, event driven, multi-platform. What's not to like?
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

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    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    .... What's not to like?
    It's not from Intel?

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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2kaud View Post
    There is a free Intel Fortran compiler which is recognized by VS IDE. You can then create and compile Fortran from within VS.

    https://software.intel.com/content/w...per-tools.html

    Create an account and sign in.

    Click Get the Base Kit
    Chose Windows Local and download file

    Click Intel HPC Toolkit and download file


    Now double click the file for the Base Kit

    Follow instructions and make sure the Integration With Current Version of VS is marked

    Then double click the file for HPC Toolkit and install it.

    This will install Fortran.

    In VS You can now create a new Intel Fortran project...

    Have fun!

    PS There is a useful booklet "Programming with Visual Studio: Fortran & Python & C++"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    which explains in detail how to install VS, Intel Fortran and Python so that they can be used from within VS.

    Note that this doesn't cover how to program - just how to install and get things working.
    This is very good to know. I have used Fortran IV to Fortran 77 before I started with Visual Basic.

  20. #20

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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post

    1, If you wanted to rewrite some of your code, then you would also gain pure OOP patterns, anonymous functions, and asynchronous/parallel programming.

    2, I personally think that the traditional desktop applications are a dying breed and so I switched to web focusing on mobile first development.

    If you want my advice, don't put all your eggs in one basket and never stop learning.
    2, What should I install to learn the basics of VB.net web app and mobile app development? I don't believe that very many engineering applications will move to small screens, but no harm in learning some basics quickly. And I guess for web apps, Visual Studio 2019 Community has everything.

    1, What are anonymous functions for? And asynchronous programming? (I generally don't work with databases but could very well use them.) I will indeed rewrite some code which has a lot of GoTo statements.

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    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by VisualBeginner.NET View Post
    2, What should I install to learn the basics of VB.net web app and mobile app development? I don't believe that very many engineering applications will move to small screens, but no harm in learning some basics quickly. And I guess for web apps, Visual Studio 2019 Community has everything.
    If you were to use VB.NET then it would be as a web server over ASP.NET Core, the front-end languages would be your traditional HTML, CSS, and some flavor of JavaScript. However, the few desktop application contracts that I still get are almost exclusively engineering applications. You may be in a little niche where you can stick to desktop applications.

    Quote Originally Posted by VisualBeginner.NET View Post
    1, What are anonymous functions for? And asynchronous programming? (I generally don't work with databases but could very well use them.) I will indeed rewrite some code which has a lot of GoTo statements.
    Anonymous methods can be used in several ways. Here is one example where I dynamically create a control and bind an event to an anonymous method:
    Code:
    Dim myTextBox = New TextBox() With {
        .Name = "Foo",
        .Text = "Foo"
    }
    AddHandler myTextBox.Click, AddressOf Sub(sender As Object, e As EventArgs)
                                               MessageBox.Show(DirectCast(sender, TextBox).Text)
                                          End Sub
    Another example is to pass a function in a LINQ statement to query a collection:
    Code:
    Dim valuesGreaterThan5 = Enumerable.Range(1, 10).Where(Function(i) i > 5)
    Here is an example of that one: https://dotnetfiddle.net/feL4l5

    Asynchronous programming can be a complex topic. The basic idea is that most anything you do can block the primary thread, which on a desktop application is the UI thread. Asynchronous programming allows you to move the work from the UI thread to a separate thread so that you don't block the UI. The most basic example is the following example:
    Code:
    Dim t As Task = Task.Run(Sub()
                                 ' do something 100 times
                                 For i = 1 To 100
                                     ' sleep to simulate a long running task
                                     Sleep(500)
                                 Next
                             End Sub)
    t.Wait()
    Try running that versus running what's in the anonymous sub straight on the UI and you'll see what I mean.
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    These days I found an article published in .NET blog: Performance Improvements in .NET 6

    .NET is constantly fixed, updated and improved for features and performance and VB.NET is not dropped (as many people expect or hope) so when using latest .NET 5 or 6 (or whatever version will come next) will gain these improvements if people start using these versions and unstick their projects from targeting old .NET Framework 4.x

    .NET Core (as 5 and 6 are not the "framework" ones) has some small differences in WinForms (as editor in IDE and as functionality), creating and working on .NET 5+ WinForms projects, as most used by people here, will be just fine.

    Another very big difference from past is that .NET Core (to differentiate again from .NET Framework) is open sourced from the beginning - compiler, runtime, libraries, including WinForms library source and many others. And VB.NET compiler is included in the "open source" part. Development is community driven, not single company driven. Anyone can contribute to the GitHub repositories - from issue reporting, bugfixes to discussions and proposals for the future of .NET, including Visual Basic language.

    Microsoft invested years of creation and improving, thousands of companies also invested into .NET for their products. There is not only compiler and few libraries. There is tooling created for many different cases which didn't exist in the VB6- world. Actually the commercial and enterprise products, based on .NET (Framework and Core) are many times more than all projects in any language in any area 20+ years ago.

    Will it die? It's already dead in the hearts of 'Sixers fans. But what about the rest?

  23. #23
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    lol....why do I feel like this thread is bait?

    Anyways, I'm not gonna jump on this train and repeat things I've said a billion times already. I'm going to approach this in good faith and assume that OP really is who he says he is and not someone from the other threads on an alt trying to stir up discord. I'm just going to focus on what the OP asked.


    Quote Originally Posted by VisualBeginner.NET View Post
    What did I gain?
    I'm just going to be straight. VB6 applications can be a bit unstable simply because Windows keeps evolving while VB6 remains static. Now Microsoft has done a very good job so far with supporting VB6 applications but things breaking is inevitable. Random DLL errors, things not looking the way they should etc. All manner of things can go wrong as Windows keeps changing. In my opinion, it's not worth the trouble maintaining a VB6 application if migration is an option. Migrating your application to VB.Net was one of the best decisions you have made. If no one else told you that. I'm telling you.

    There is another side benefit that may or may not matter to you. Your code now has the potential to run on other platforms outside of Windows. .Net is supported on multiple platforms like Android and Linux.

    Also, if you intend to extend these applications with additional functionality, you would find this is a whole lot easier in a .Net language since the Framework is packed with all kinds of classes to do just about anything. Everything from graphics to file handling. It's all right there. No need to download any 3rd party libraries. Then there is LINQ which makes dealing with filtering lists and arrays very easy with no need to write a bunch of boiler plate functions. For example if you have a list of names and you wanted to find every one in that list who is older than 60, you can do that in one line like this:-
    Code:
            Dim people As Person() ' Array of Person objects. Assume it has data
    
            'Filter out people older than 60
            Dim oldFolks As Person() = people.Where(Function(p) p.PersonAge > 60).ToArray
    From my personal experience, LINQ is one of the biggest advantages of a .Net language over VB6. Filtering lists is a very common task in even the simplest programs and having a powerful querying facility like LINQ baked into .Net gives you so much value. Do you know how much boilerplate I used to have to write when I was in VB6 for simple things like this? It's ridiculous how much more productivity LINQ gives you.

    The type system is .Net is also a lot more extensive. You have built-in types like Long, which is a 64 bit Integer and there are also unsigned datatypes like UInteger, ULong, UShort etc which come in handy when dealing with certain APIs that use unsigned types.

    Remember all those CopyMemory calls we used to do in VB6? Not necessary in .Net. The BitConverter class provides all the type punning functionality you used to get with CopyMemory calls. The marshaling infrastructure in Platform Invoke can be controlled by the programmer, something that you cannot do in VB6. For example, when you call an API, you can tell P/Invoke exactly how to marshal parameters. This also eliminates the need for a bunch of CopyMemory calls.

    I could go on and on...but I think I've made my point.


    Quote Originally Posted by VisualBeginner.NET View Post
    And I am hearing from others that VB.net will soon be obsolete and I will be forced to switch over to Python or C# or something (not Java, hopefully). This will be a big task, but if I have to leave VB.net within 5 years, I should not convert the rest of my software to VB.net but take the pains to learn Python or C# and slowly start converting the old VB3 (mostly recompiled in VB6) code. Any advice on what the future should be for engineering calculation programming?
    In a vacuum, I would recommend C# over VB.Net. However, VB.Net is not going anywhere. There is absolutely nothing wrong with remaining in VB.Net. The reason I recommend C# is because it's Microsoft's flagship language. It gets all the newest language updates and it has far greater support than VB.Net by the masses. If you intend to use any of Microsoft's latest development technology outside of desktop development, you would be better served by going to C#. VB.Net isn't officially supported in multi-platform/non-desktop technologies like Xamarin and Blazor. It's all C#.

    However, if all you're doing is converting old VB6 applications then going to C# for this is a bit overkill if you're already comfortable with VB.Net. You can definitely stick with VB.Net with no worries whatsoever as long as you're sticking to the Windows desktop. Microsoft isn't going to outright kill VB.Net. It's simply going to fade further and further into the background. Microsoft is maintaining it but they are not going to add any new language features and it most likely won't be supported in newer technologies.
    Last edited by Niya; Aug 26th, 2021 at 01:57 PM.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  24. #24
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    One thing to add about that is that you can meld C# and VB in a solution. At one point, MS was suggesting that a future version of VS would allow you to write the both code in the same project, and possibly in the same file. That never came to pass, and I don't think anybody misses it much. Still, if you build up a solution using multiple projects or multiple dlls (not necessarily in the same solution), then you do not have to stick to one language. For example, you could build a library of methods in VB, call them from C#, and so on.
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  25. #25
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    One thing to add about that is that you can meld C# and VB in a solution. At one point, MS was suggesting that a future version of VS would allow you to write the both code in the same project, and possibly in the same file. That never came to pass, and I don't think anybody misses it much. Still, if you build up a solution using multiple projects or multiple dlls (not necessarily in the same solution), then you do not have to stick to one language. For example, you could build a library of methods in VB, call them from C#, and so on.
    You could mix multiple languages in a single solution:-


    So in theory, you could take VB.Net into spaces where it's not officially supported like Xamarin.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

    Copy/move files using Windows Shell

    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  26. #26
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Today I updated my VS2019 Preview. And I updated (git pull) some sources from GitHub which include Roslyn compiler, .NET runtime, WPF, WinForms, SqlClient and others. Strange that I see many files changed from yesterday "pull". If VB6 was on "GitHub", the git pull message will be "Already up to date" for the last 20+ years

    Not theory, that's the life

  27. #27
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    lol....
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

    Copy/move files using Windows Shell

    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  28. #28
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Oh yea, I forgot to address one other thing. TwinBASIC. It's a new compiler that it's active development and it's already shown great promise. It's intended to be 100% VB6 compatible I've personally tested it and found it quite impressive. However, it's not complete yet. If it does succeed in it's mission, then I would strongly recommend all migration from VB6 be to TwinBASIC. It already has a lot of features found in modern languages while aiming to be 100% compatible with older VB6 code. If it were a complete product today, I'd recommend that over VB.Net for migrating old VB6 projects. You get most of the same benefits of VB.Net with the additional benefit of not needing your code to change.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

    Copy/move files using Windows Shell

    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  29. #29
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    You could mix multiple languages in a single solution:-


    So in theory, you could take VB.Net into spaces where it's not officially supported like Xamarin.
    You always could. You can't take it to XAML, but you could put a pretty thin layer between the XAML and the VB and have entirely VB functionality. I think all it would require would be an interface where the implementation was in VB, but it's been too long since I've worked with Xamarin to be sure.
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  30. #30
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    Oh yea, I forgot to address one other thing. TwinBASIC. It's a new compiler that it's active development and it's already shown great promise. It's intended to be 100% VB6 compatible I've personally tested it and found it quite impressive. However, it's not complete yet. If it does succeed in it's mission, then I would strongly recommend all migration from VB6 be to TwinBASIC. It already has a lot of features found in modern languages while aiming to be 100% compatible with older VB6 code. If it were a complete product today, I'd recommend that over VB.Net for migrating old VB6 projects. You get most of the same benefits of VB.Net with the additional benefit of not needing your code to change.
    I do not endorse that position. TwinBASIC may well prove to be a great product fully compatible with VB6. However, does it have legs? It seems to me that one bread truck could hop a curb and end TwinBASIC completely. Before anybody relies on it too much, you have to convince yourself that it will continue forwards.
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  31. #31
    Junior Member Cristianlt23's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    I'm not going to write a text, but lines of thoughts about VB.NET

    Well, I think it's the market and the developers who will really dictate that.

    If you work in a company as an employee you shouldn't worry, it's the company that chooses its tools.

    Watch out for the fad Python may already be president even before C#, Java, VB.net, but today it's in fashion.

    The evolution of the VB.NET language doesn't worry me, we can use it like this for decades, it will still have bug fixes and support, that's great.

    If it's for Hobby, it's even better, because you'll have a stable and mature language that won't change 3 times a year, breaking your applications

    C# is evolving a lot towards being 6 per half a dozen

    C# has the laugh of becoming a C++, often incomprehensible within the same team, so it will be several C# within C#, just like C++ is

    VB.NET has gained stability, it's out of pointless change, that's good, because it will change what's really necessary.

    Will VB.NET end? If no one uses it for sure it will end, but instead if we create libraries, complex solutions, etc. it can return to fashion like this with python

    Just for the record, if facebook used VB.NET it would be easier to manage the code

    I would be sad if I had studied for 5 years and at the end of the course I came face to face with VB.NET, I would say, because I studied the most complicated thing if there is VB.NET.


    Between Pyhon and VB.NET I prefer VB.NET is faster.

    VB.NET is open source, so it depends more on your community than Microsoft

    I develop for the Web with VB.net (https://github.com/VBAndCs/Vazor)

    VB.NET is very wordy! Well I save a lot with comments

    I use C# only in situations where VB.NET cannot reach, on average, 3% of my project.

    I'm better with VB.NET, so I always start with it

    Is there any community that takes care of the evolution of the VB.NET dialect? yes, (https://gitter.im/VB-NET)

    I'm really worried about which language to use 30 years from now.

    And now? VB.NET died! Well, I'm going to use VB.NET at (https://www.elementscompiler.com/elements/mercury/)

    I spend 5 hours programming a day and another 3 thinking about what to do tomorrow with VB.NET, in other dialects I spend 3 hours programming, 2 hours fixing, 3 hours studying what will change tomorrow.

    everything I think about creating I think about creating with VB.NET, for me it is a great satisfaction to use this programming language.
    Last edited by Cristianlt23; Aug 26th, 2021 at 06:12 PM.

  32. #32
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I do not endorse that position. TwinBASIC may well prove to be a great product fully compatible with VB6. However, does it have legs? It seems to me that one bread truck could hop a curb and end TwinBASIC completely. Before anybody relies on it too much, you have to convince yourself that it will continue forwards.
    Wayne Phillips has had direct communication with those of us who have been testing it and though it has not been directly discusses as far as I know, I get the feeling that he would not be opposed to opening the compiler to the public at some point in the future. If that happens, a single bread truck hopping a curb won't be able to end it then as the open source community will be able to carry it in whatever direction needed.

    That being said, your point is well taken. I would not advise commitment to it until such time as it's future is secured but it's looks very promising so far.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

    Copy/move files using Windows Shell

    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  33. #33
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    C# will have jumped the shark when it gets the Standard Template Library.
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  34. #34
    Karen Payne MVP kareninstructor's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    For new projects rather than contemplating this language or that language focus on personal or client needs followed by will the chosen language be suitable for the project.

    If a developer is competent in their primary language, IDE and compiler which satisfies customer needs and runs on the appropriate platform there is no reason to change. Then there are stopgaps such as Docker for times when a particular language does not run properly on a specific platform. IDE issues but not compiler? There is always Microsoft Visual Code with proper extensions if say Intellisense and syntax highlighting is needed. When things simply canít work this is when to consider changing technologies.

    Personally speaking Iíve not written a desktop application in over nine years other than two or three file parsers. Selected languages are C#, Typescript coupled with BootStrap and sadly Cold Fusion for legacy web applications.

    If a developer wants to be prepared for when a chosen language simply canít fulfill requirements then as Shaggy and Niya mentioned a developer can mix up languages. Primary language VB.NET, C# for what VB.NET canít do or can but requires more work than it should be.

    One of my pet peeves for VB.NET developers was the lack of support for reverse engineering databases for Entity Framework Core 5. Then recently Microsoft provided an NuGet package which provides this which is a game changer because using Entity Framework 6 was great but EF Core 5 and beyond opens many doors for both web and desktop solutions such as Interceptors, local data and built in BindingList. Along with shadow properties, concurrency tokens and global filtering among other must have features to making coding easier. Forget about transactions, EF Core creates these for us. Forget about screwing up a query by mistyping a column name and when something changes in the database repeat the scaffolding coupled with the proper use of partial classes and configurations on tables.

    If a developer is young and planning on a career in software development they should be looking at C#, Typescript and MAUI. Want to sell yourself then by fluent with responsive design via ASP.NET Core and XMAL.

    In the end wisdom rules out via researching and understanding client wishes yet always know that the client is not always right. Sorry if I offend anyone but if still using VB6 for new projects on Windows 10 and higher itís time to move to VB.NET.

    Some tidbits

    asynchronous sample for working with data via Entity Framework Core

    Code:
    Public Class DataOperations
        Public Shared Context As New NorthWindContext()
    
        Public Shared Async Function Customers() As Task(Of List(Of Customer))
    
            Return Await Task.Run(Async Function() Await Context.Customers.ToListAsync())
        End Function
    
        Public Shared Async Function CustomersLocal() As Task(Of BindingList(Of Customer))
            Return Await Task.Run(Async Function()
                                      Await Context.Customers.LoadAsync()
                                      Return Context.Customers.Local.ToBindingList()
                                  End Function)
        End Function
        ''' <summary>
        ''' Get local changes, deleted records will not show
        ''' </summary>
        ''' <returns></returns>
        Public Shared Function Show() As String
    
            Dim builder As New StringBuilder()
    
            For Each customer In Context.Customers.Local
    
                If Context.Entry(customer).State <> EntityState.Unchanged Then
                    builder.AppendLine($"{customer.CompanyName} {customer.Street} {customer.City} {Context.Entry(customer).State}")
                End If
    
            Next
    
            Return builder.ToString()
        End Function
    End Class
    Example of an anonymous type to breakup a complex group by

    Code:
    Sub AnonymousToStrongTypedVersion()
        Dim operations = New DataOperations
        Dim customers = operations.CustomerList()
    
        ' Anonymous, can only be used in this method
        Dim baseQuery =
                From customer In customers Order By customer.City
                Group By CountryName = customer.Country Into regionalCustomers = Group
                Order By CountryName
    
        ' strong typed, can be used outside this sub when making this method a function
        Dim customersByCountry As IEnumerable(Of CountryCompanyContainer) =
                baseQuery.Select(Function(customer) New CountryCompanyContainer With {
                                    .CountryName = customer.CountryName,
                                    .Customers = customer.regionalCustomers,
                                    .Count = customer.regionalCustomers.Count()
                                    })
    
        For Each TopGroup In customersByCountry
            Console.WriteLine($"{TopGroup.CountryName} ({TopGroup.Count})")
            For Each innerGroup In TopGroup.Customers
                Console.WriteLine($"{innerGroup.CustomerIdentifier,5} {innerGroup.CompanyName} ({innerGroup.City})")
            Next
        Next
    
    
    End Sub
    Or sacrifice maintainability for what some think is cool but is not yet it's usable that the caller can use the data.

    Code:
    Public Function CountryCustomers() As IEnumerable(Of CountryCompanyContainer)
        Dim operations = New DataOperations
        Dim customers = operations.CustomerList()
    
        Dim customersByCountry As IEnumerable(Of CountryCompanyContainer) =
                (
                    From customer In customers
                    Order By customer.City
                    Group By CountryName = customer.Country Into regionalCustomers =
                        Group Order By CountryName).Select(Function(customer) New CountryCompanyContainer With {
                                    .CountryName = customer.CountryName,
                                    .Customers = customer.regionalCustomers,
                                    .Count = customer.regionalCustomers.Count()
                                    })
    
        Return customersByCountry
    
    End Function
    Concrete container for above

    Code:
    Friend Class CountryCompanyContainer
        Public Property CountryName As String
        Public Property Customers As IEnumerable(Of Customer)
        Public Property Count As Integer
    End Class

  35. #35
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I do not endorse that position. TwinBASIC may well prove to be a great product fully compatible with VB6. However, does it have legs? It seems to me that one bread truck could hop a curb and end TwinBASIC completely. Before anybody relies on it too much, you have to convince yourself that it will continue forwards.
    That's why it is important that the source code is placed in Escrow.
    I know twinBASIC are looking into this.

    Now if I could just find Escrow on a map...

  36. #36
    PowerPoster techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by VB6 Programming View Post
    Now if I could just find Escrow on a map...
    Having worked for a company that used to put source code into escrow for a client... it's done through lawyers.

    -tg
    * I don't respond to private (PM) requests for help. It's not conducive to the general learning of others.*
    * I also don't respond to friend requests. Save a few bits and don't bother. I'll just end up rejecting anyways.*
    * How to get EFFECTIVE help: The Hitchhiker's Guide to Getting Help at VBF - Removing eels from your hovercraft *
    * How to Use Parameters * Create Disconnected ADO Recordset Clones * Set your VB6 ActiveX Compatibility * Get rid of those pesky VB Line Numbers * I swear I saved my data, where'd it run off to??? *

  37. #37
    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by VB6 Programming View Post
    Now if I could just find Escrow on a map...
    https://www.ironmountain.com

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  38. #38
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Based on the title of the thread asked, the answer is never give up. Stay in VB especially at VB.net. Life is short, don't waste your time learning a new language!
    Shaggy's post is representative enough to explain this.

    VB isn't actually dead but just frozen at some point. want to know the reason? I think it's because of the limited number of development team members in MS. MS focuses on developing new technologies and the tools seem to be difficult for 2 languages ​​to implement, so only C# is chosen, the technology is also far from perfect. how about the new technology with VB? the answer is not yet known, we can only guess, maybe in the future it will be presented in vb. new technology developed by MS like blazor, not really needed in my opinion.

    there is still hope for vb to be re-developed. maybe waiting for the c# version to be the same as vb, because if it was developed concurrently with c#, it would be a lot of PRs, of course it would be a pain due to the limited team members....just my opinion

    VB desktop can be equipped with asp.net core mvc/api, you can use bootstrap to be mobile friendly

    I have several years of experience creating php spa-like web apps with CI. in early 2020 i've ported to asp.net vb project, only about 4% razor syntax i use in project.

    do i need to learn c#? the answer is yes only a little. it's only razor related

    is it necessary to learn angularJS? maybe one day because there is something quite unique about it. because I can do many things with jQuery, until now I don't need angular or typescript

  39. #39
    Karen Payne MVP kareninstructor's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by djancuk View Post
    Based on the title of the thread asked, the answer is never give up. Stay in VB especially at VB.net. Life is short, don't waste your time learning a new language!
    That is not a good attitude if you are a developer with say five or more years left in the profession. Some developers will coast by on a given language but what happens when it's mandated to use another programming language and said developer can not get up to speed in time? There are always signals way before a mandate comes down the road. Sure some can dictate that they will only work with one language yet that in many cases limits projects to write.

    Don't get me wrong, I think VB.NET is a great language and may have many years left but it's really not what should be consider, instead where is my pay check coming from when mandated to jump ship on, in this case VB.

    Where I work prerequisites are TypeScript, JQuery, C#, BootStrap, SASS Git Actions, EF Core, ASP.NET Core, unit testing, mocking for starters. Even mention VB of any edition will have a candidate not to make it to in person interviews. Same goes for four child companies. Total developers 200, not one using VB of any edition.

    Now with that said I can expect a rebuttal or two :-)

  40. #40
    Fanatic Member Delaney's Avatar
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    Re: How soon may I have to give up VB.net (and VB6)?

    Quote Originally Posted by djancuk View Post
    Based on the title of the thread asked, the answer is never give up. Stay in VB especially at VB.net. Life is short, don't waste your time learning a new language!
    That's a curious philosophy because you can like a language, never give it up and still learn a new one. I'd says : as professional, learn everything you need to do the job, as a amateur/hobbyist, learn everything that will give you fun !
    For work and personal project I work with Arduino, so I needed to remember (i used it long time ago), learn and use C++ to program them but I still do the main program in VB. I also need to learn Labview for a new project because the device I will use is piloted only with Labview, so I will learn Labview. And now I am starting to learn Python. But I can tell you I will never give up VB.net because that's the language I prefer and with which I am most comfortable. (By the way, I am not a professional developer I am a mechanical engineer but I need to do some applications for work).
    The best friend of any programmer is a search engine
    "Don't wish it was easier, wish you were better. Don't wish for less problems, wish for more skills. Don't wish for less challenges, wish for more wisdom" (J. Rohn)
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