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Thread: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

  1. #81
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    Why is Microsoft now planning to phase out VB.NET in .NET?
    Show that they are. You speak of emotional statements. That particular one has been the dream pushed by a sector of programmers for at least a decade, by now. Frankly, whenever somebody links to some 'evidence' it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Even Niya is talking about C# moving forwards and not wanting to be left behind, but left behind from what? There are elements that have been added to .NET languages that provide debatable benefit. That debate is the issue.

    Back when the first push for ANSI standardization of C++ was in the works, there was considerable discussion about the Standard Template Library (STL), which was a form of meta-programming that was becoming VERY robust. The result was that super clever people could write things that virtually nobody else could understand. If it worked, then it was unmaintainable. If it didn't work, then it was best discarded. I felt that the STL went several steps too far for that very reason: It didn't help solve a problem, it mostly just helped people prove that they could solve a problem in the most abstruse way possible.

    Much of the advances in C# feel like the STL. Sure, you CAN use them, but they don't do anything that you couldn't already do, it just means that there are more and more ways to write the same thing, often with worse performance. This doesn't make the program stronger, it just means that it becomes ever harder to understand it, and that's quite the wrong thing to do in programs. The goal should be for it to be easier to understand code, and by constantly expanding the set of features in the syntax, MS is working against that goal.

    Therefore, when MS says that they aren't going to evolve VB.NET as fast, lots of people are reading that as it going away, but a better reading would be that they recognize that adding every feature doesn't improve the purpose of the language. If the purpose is to write good and maintainable programs, then it should stop evolving so long as it is capable of doing all the things that are necessary. For that reason, you see VB in .NET5, which is a necessary step to be able to accomplish certain things, but the language is not adding every new flavor.
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    use whatever you want, in the end its all about "time".
    no, I don't care about effectiveness, compatibility, stability, performance etc.
    that part is up to everyone, if you want to use commodore 64 and create a game, well, go ahead, I will not try to stop you.

    all this BS about VB6 is 20 years old that the world has forgotten is also meaningless. but the same is the VB6 is superior or VB6 can do this and that and because of it, its better than programming language "whatever".
    no, use whatever you want. C, Assembler, Scripting, Java, well, anything that you want to use.

    if programmer A can make a program in 150 hours using VB6 that is on par with a C made one that programmer B made, but took 200 hours it tells nothing.
    sure, this programmer is faster, maybe because of VB6, maybe because programmer B is slower. but I believe we could find situation when its the reverse. it all depends on experience and resources.

    VB6 has its limitations, but theres a lot it can do, and an experienced VB6 programmer can do almost anything.
    but of course without that experience and knowledge a newbie would not be able to do it without help.
    newer programming languages has its advantages that I believe would make a newbie feel comfortable using it more than VB6.
    but, that means nothing, the experienced VB6 programmer could still make almost anything, this because of his experience and knowledge.

    so, in the end its subjective. its about the person and his experience and "time".
    if it took me to create a game 100 hours, but I know changing programming language will only require 50 hours, I would change.
    but that is impossible, as changing language will demand a lot of time to just learn the basics. while making it with VB6 where I have experience and knowledge would just require me to get started as I know the basics already, plus I have resources and sources that I can use.

    can I do a web server? sure, why not? I have already made programs many many years ago, ftp/http servers, chat and fileservers and tunnels.
    if I setup a computer with windows and start the program, who cares if its VB6 or not? its just about internet and protocols.
    and if you ask me, with the knowledge I have with VB6, I would pick that one as Im comfortable with it.
    but that doesn't mean its the best choice. maybe for me, but maybe not for someone else. let it be. people can do whatever they want,
    create a webserver using commodore64. is it doable? sure, if we can add an adapter that can communicate with the com ports. but it will be tremendously slow. but still doable if we really want to do it. and people should just accept it without the need to compare and tell that the commodore 64 is ancient and nobody cares. well guess what. people still cares about commodore 64... just google and you will find tons of people working with it, making "music, using sids" and even surfing the net.
    the same is VB6, if you want to use it, go ahead, but try to not compare, as its subjective and about preference and what you want to do with your time.
    Last edited by baka; Jul 29th, 2021 at 09:10 AM.

  3. #83
    Fanatic Member Delaney's Avatar
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post

    Please remember that the truth (or top technology) is always in the hands of a few people, and the things most people understand are just common sense.
    I guess you are, of course, one of these few people

    So Please remember that the truth is always in the hands of no one because truth is just a question of point of view and opinion...
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  4. #84
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    While both C and BASIC have their merits, I think C won because of its terseness. BASIC is a very verbose language and this rubs a lot of people, especially systems programmers, the wrong way. C's syntax is just sooo much better when you're dealing with very low level programming where you're dealing with pointers and such very often.
    Yeah? The last time somebody tried to prove that, they came up with an example that was exactly the same length in VB or C#.

    The simple fact is that C is not terse. There's loads of excess crap in that language that are not necessary. If the goal was to be terse, the C-syntax family has failed. This point is often missed by C coders because the highly symbolic nature means that the excess crap isn't letters and takes up less space on the screen. What's more, the layout of virtually all keyboards means that the symbolic nature of C actually works against you if you can type well.

    What you get in C is
    1) Lots of unnecessary parentheses.
    2) Extra, unnecessary symbols.
    3) Semicolons.

    An example of the first one is any If statement. An example of the second is && vs & (they mean two different things in C, but they don't HAVE to), and the third....needs no example. One thing to note is that all three of those are a legacy of the ancient roots of C. Back when the language was developed, those features were necessary due to the limitations of the hardware that was running the program.
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    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Even Niya is talking about C# moving forwards and not wanting to be left behind, but left behind from what?
    My programming background stretches all the way back to the 90s with BASICA. I've seen the world change many times over. I like to think that I have a sense for when certain things might be past their prime. Maybe I'm wrong but that's another discussion entirely.

    Believe me, I'd love nothing more than to stay in BASIC but it's getting increasingly difficult to justify staying, especially in the world of .Net. When I jumped ship from VB6 into VB.Net, VB.Net was very popular. But as the years dragged on, I began seeing less and less of it. I mean Microsoft's own documentation today is almost completely devoid of VB.Net examples. It's all C#. This never used to be the case. Then you have this announcement that MS is done developing VB and putting it into maintenance mode. Then developent stacks like Unity and Xamarin were brought into existence and these stacks completely ignore the Visual Basic language. They are all C#. I mean the message is pretty clear. Everyone who matters in the .Net world is going to be dealing with C# and not VB. For me specifically, I'm very interested in a lot of the up coming development technology being created at Microsoft and all I'm seeing is C#. VB.Net is not even being mentioned anymore. I mean it can't be any clearer than that where the world is heading.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    I thought this thread wasn't going to degenerate into the usual but it has, of course. Unsubscribed.
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

  7. #87
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    That's odd, I find examples in VB more common than examples in C#. I wonder if Google is smart enough to filter results?

    Xamarin was bought. It was C#...and it was lousy. MS has greatly improved it, as I understand, and it kind of makes sense that it is still C#, but it also kind of doesn't matter. I'm working on a program that is divided into dozens of dlls. In .NET, a dll is a dll, regardless of the .NET language used. VS is really impressive with being able to step into dlls, too. Not just dlls included in the project, but dlls loaded dynamically, as well.

    Still, with the exception of the Task, I have yet to see something added to either .NET language since FW 4.0 that was a real advantage. In fact, with the exception of things like the Task, which are focused on making multi-threading simpler, I don't think there has been an important addition to the language since FW 2.0. Some things, such as LINQ and Lambdas, are very popular, to be sure, but they don't add things that can't be done in other ways.

    In 2.0, generics were added along with partial classes, two additions that allowed the solving of problems that would have been difficult to solve otherwise. Tasks and some thread control items also fall into that category. Other additions, like LINQ, Lambdas, tuples, and so on, just give you more ways to solve the same problem.
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    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Yeah? The last time somebody tried to prove that, they came up with an example that was exactly the same length in VB or C#.

    The simple fact is that C is not terse. There's loads of excess crap in that language that are not necessary. If the goal was to be terse, the C-syntax family has failed. This point is often missed by C coders because the highly symbolic nature means that the excess crap isn't letters and takes up less space on the screen. What's more, the layout of virtually all keyboards means that the symbolic nature of C actually works against you if you can type well.

    What you get in C is
    1) Lots of unnecessary parentheses.
    2) Extra, unnecessary symbols.
    3) Semicolons.

    An example of the first one is any If statement. An example of the second is && vs & (they mean two different things in C, but they don't HAVE to), and the third....needs no example. One thing to note is that all three of those are a legacy of the ancient roots of C. Back when the language was developed, those features were necessary due to the limitations of the hardware that was running the program.
    I really can't say I disagree too much with what you said since this particular discussion is highly subjective. However, we cannot deny that C based syntaxes are more popular for reasons more than just luck. My first glimpse into the reasons came many years ago when I was very young in this particular thread on the ZDOOM forums. One of the main developers of the ZDOOM port of DOOM wanted to move the engine's scripting language from the C based ACS to something called Lua which cause a lot of tension with one of the other main developers. If memory serves, he even threatened to leave the project at one point which would have been disastrous if he did. He was basically that forum's version of Olaf. Super talented programmer with very deep knowledge about his domain and a lot of amazing accomplishments in that world under his belt.

    He said this about Lua:-
    I'd have to agree with that. I really, *really* don't like this language - at all!

    It's a real shame that they had to use crap BASIC syntax as a guideline to design their language.
    I answered with this:-
    Its more like C/C++ than BASIC. Basic naming convention doesnt allow leading underscores in the names of identifiers, also square braces and curly braces aren't used at all in basic. Function return values using the return keyword. BASIC uses explicit assignment of the returns to the function name. These are C conventions. The only things it seems to take from BASIC is the if..else..then construct and worded operators.
    To which he countered with:-
    I don't see much of C in Lua. If not BASIC than more PASCAL - but no C.
    He really wasn't having it. He really didn't have any love for the verbosity of Lua, BASIC or Pascal.

    He then went on to say this:-
    Just looking at the Lua examples gives me the creeps. All the stuff I hated about Pascal which made me convert completely to C 15 years ago is back with a vengeance. I always found code that requires written keywords to declare blocks of statements very hard to read because there's nothing intuitive about these kinds of separators. C's braces are nice and easily spotted and among all programming languages I know are the most readable solution of all.

    To be honest, I'd rather write an ACC-style compiler rather than use this language.
    Yes, I know that a grammar-based parser is supposed to be the way to go and I also know that expanding this with unexpected new features might be harder but somehow I never got anywhere with a grammar based parser. It's just not my style of doing things.

    A few years ago I did some work on ACC to expand it to be able to write action functions. It was working to some degree but since I never tried to eliminate ACC's limitations I gave up eventually. A language without type checking and a high risk of undetectable programming errors wasn't that appealing. But I think that with my current experience I could get something to work that can parse a more powerful language.
    He later threatened to leave the project over this:-
    I can promise you one thing it will give you for sure: me leaving. Sorry, but having to bother with a language I am fundamentally uncomfortable with (the more Lua code I see the worse the feeling gets...) is not worth my continued work on Doom in any way. It will also mean that as soon as some code that is different between ZDoom and GZDoom is converted to Lua, GZDoom will cease to exist because in that case I won't be able to do a port without having to work with Lua.

    Sorry about this but I'd rather say it now rather than later.
    He really wasn't having it.

    Then another prominent forum member chimed in with this:-
    'd prefer a C-like syntax over this, but if this is the only chance we have to get a lot of these features in...

    I find no value in the argument that a programming language needs to look like English. I have a little experience coding in a lot of different things, and in my opinion the "English-like" languages are the worst. English is vague and ambiguous. Code should not be. Code does not have to look like prose to be readable. In most cases, that makes it worse.
    Then someone else much later said this:-
    I support Graf's implementation: Lua looks too much like BASIC for me to be comfortable with.
    Yet someone else again said:-
    Am a C fan for quite a while, so I'm third-ing the decision. I don't like the way LUA looks at all. o_o
    Some else later suggested ECMAScript:-
    I've never much liked the look of DECORATE and I don't especially care for Lua. Here's a somewhat off-the-wall suggestion: ECMAScript (more commonly known as JavaScript). It has very C-like syntax and supports functional programming constructs i.e. higher order functions and closures. The language is well-known, standardized, and there are many independent implementations.

    The latest version of ECMAScript even includes support for classes, packages and namespaces, and (optional) static typing.
    Now, most people were neutral and I was a strong supporter of Lua, given I was hardcore into VB6 at the time. But I really did find it interesting what the C people had to say about it regarding it's syntax and it's similarity to BASIC. The thing is, you and I can complaining about curly braces until we're blue in the face, it won't change the fact that the C programmers love it. They also made it abundantly clear that they absolutely hate BASIC and anything that looks like it.

    I was very young at the time and all I had experience in was VB6 and it's ancestral line all the way back to BASIC in DOS(BASICA/QuickBASIC etc). This was very eye opening for me. In was my participation on these very forums that got me to touch the C syntax for the first time, starting with ZDOOM's ACS which then led me to do real C++ code. Fast forward to today will all the experience I've accumulated outside the world of BASIC since, I can see where these guys are coming from.

    I'm not saying that C syntax is better than BASIC. They both have merits, but we cannot deny that there is a reason it is loved so much and when I really examine those reasons, they make a lot of sense. For example, Graf's statement about using keywords to declare blocks instead of curly braces making code harder to read is one of the things I staunchly agree with. It it for this exact reason I always prefer looking up C# code instead of VB.Net code when I want to learn how to do something in .Net. I find C syntaxes far more readable on most websites than a BASIC syntax.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    I just wanted to leave one final post in this thread that says what everyone posted in this thread is absolutely correct. All of it. Even the stuff that conflicts with the other stuff. Especially that stuff.

    And I just realized that I haven't been devoting enough of my "dark force time" to preventing "VB.Next" from coming to fruition. Gotta get back on that.

    BYE

  10. #90
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    That's odd, I find examples in VB more common than examples in C#. I wonder if Google is smart enough to filter results?

    Xamarin was bought. It was C#...and it was lousy. MS has greatly improved it, as I understand, and it kind of makes sense that it is still C#, but it also kind of doesn't matter. I'm working on a program that is divided into dozens of dlls. In .NET, a dll is a dll, regardless of the .NET language used. VS is really impressive with being able to step into dlls, too. Not just dlls included in the project, but dlls loaded dynamically, as well.

    Still, with the exception of the Task, I have yet to see something added to either .NET language since FW 4.0 that was a real advantage. In fact, with the exception of things like the Task, which are focused on making multi-threading simpler, I don't think there has been an important addition to the language since FW 2.0. Some things, such as LINQ and Lambdas, are very popular, to be sure, but they don't add things that can't be done in other ways.

    In 2.0, generics were added along with partial classes, two additions that allowed the solving of problems that would have been difficult to solve otherwise. Tasks and some thread control items also fall into that category. Other additions, like LINQ, Lambdas, tuples, and so on, just give you more ways to solve the same problem.
    You're not wrong on any of this. I only disagree on being able to find VB samples more easily than C#. It is really difficult to find VB.Net versions of the stuff I tend to look for online.

    Thing is, it's good right now. But I'm thinking about where it will be 5 to 10 years from now. I'm sorry, but I really do believe that it's only a matter of time before VB.Net as a language ends up in the dustbin of history like VB6 with only a few rabid fans still holding onto it. I really don't want to be caught in the future trying to make a dead language work in whatever crazy world awaits us 10 years from now. Thankfully, moving from VB.Net to C# is not that big of a deal, at least I don't see it that way.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  11. #91
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by OptionBase1 View Post
    I just wanted to leave one final post in this thread that says what everyone posted in this thread is absolutely correct. All of it. Even the stuff that conflicts with the other stuff. Especially that stuff.

    And I just realized that I haven't been devoting enough of my "dark force time" to preventing "VB.Next" from coming to fruition. Gotta get back on that.

    BYE
    lmao
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena


    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  12. #92
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Oh and I want to clarify what I mean when I say it's easier to find C# samples than VB.Net ones. Strictly speaking, its not true but practically speaking there is a big difference. Firstly, C# versions tend to be more robust, better written, more compliant to standards etc whereas VB.Net versions tend to be, well just meh. Also, if you're looking for a VB.Net implementation of something, you might find one or two examples but look for C# implementations you might find dozens. This also relates to my first point about code quality. If you have more versions of something, there is a higher chance that a couple of those would turn out to be really good implementations.

    All in all, I just get a lot better results looking for C# code than VB.Net. C# being a more readable language on most websites is a nice side benefit. Word wrapping tends to make the more expressive statements of the BASIC syntax difficult to read on a lot of websites.
    Last edited by Niya; Jul 29th, 2021 at 11:13 AM.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Lua? Ack, ptui!

    I've written a little of that and I can still taste it. I don't see Basic there myself. The guy would probably say the same thing about Pascal.

    I might give in on Python, which is a sort of bastardized Basic in many ways.

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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Lua seems to have become the de facto language for modding games. I don't know why that is. I've never used it, myself, nor have I modded games. I've always assumed there was a reason, but maybe not. For my part, I'm not quite sure how to pronounce it...and that's important, because you can't make a good pun out of it if you can't pronounce it right. C and BASIC are excellent, in that regard, as is Python.

    I learned BASIC first, C/C++ second, then VB. Looking back, I can see the influence that each of those languages had on my preferences. I suspect that the same is true for most programmers...aside from the 'looking back' part. I'm just not sure how introspective people are about their preferences.

    In my case, SearchingDataOnly said something telling...which I won't seek out, but it was essentially about rapidly developing applications. The fastest programs I wrote (from concept to completion) were in VB6...but they also mostly sucked pretty bad. That was no reflection on the language, it was a reflection on the coder. I was really new to it when I was writing in VB6. Now, I should add that the end users didn't think they sucked, and some are still in use to this day, but I knew they sucked.

    Now, I write in .NET (primarily VB, but some C#). It takes longer to write things...perhaps, but I'm pretty sure that it takes longer because the programs are more robust and versatile. There's just more TO them, so of course they take longer. I learned a lot from those early days.

    I also preferred .NET because of my experience in C++, primarily. There were good things about that language that I could bring with me more readily to .NET than to VB6, so it fit my way of thinking better. That's a personal preference and nothing more. However, what I didn't like about C++ was the syntax, so VB.NET was a blend of what I liked from VB6 and C++.

    For the most part, I have no problem with C-style languages. I've always had a sneaking suspicion that the reason coders like that language is because it looks cooler, and they care about that at some fundamental level. Functionally, they are the same, so it doesn't much matter...with one big exception. I've mentioned before that I'm working on a project with a whole lot of dlls, and VB has a significant advantage when doing that: Case insensitivity. That may seem like a minor feature of the language, and this post is already too long, but I can guarantee that case sensitivity hurts C# coders who work with dlls in Visual Studio. It's not a grievous harm, but it is a harm. You will create more bugs, and waste more time because of that relic of ancient times.
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    I think the reason people feel that C is superior is because the "B" in BASIC stands for Beginners and they find that insulting. lol

    I never liked programming in C, mainly for the reasons SH has stated. But at least I was programming in a language that wasn't for beginners so I must be pro now.

    use whatever you want, in the end its all about "time".
    no, I don't care about effectiveness, compatibility, stability, performance etc.
    I can't agree with that. I wouldn't ever let a client spend $50,000 on a piece of custom software that wasn't stable or in a year wouldn't run because it's not compatible with the newest MS OS.

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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Lua is pronounced like Moon and is a nice little language similar to JS in regards to first-order functions and functional programming which produces succinct programs overall.

    Another benefit is that Lua's runtime is small compared to JS implementations so embedding a scripting language comes for free. Now, VBScript for VB6 programs has even less overhead as the runtime is shipped by the OS but this is another story.

    I've been programming in C/C++ so I can relate to those feeling about BASIC and looking down on everything that resembles any other inferior language (Pascal even more so).

    But Niya's fears about 5-10 years from now and how VB.Net will end up in the dustbin -- the irony is that it's highly likely C# will end up there too. The irony is that life has it's own ways and usually turning you ass around just to prevent the distaster inevitably leads to deeper penetration in the end. So keep calm and grind codes in whatever language you want to.

    cheers,
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  17. #97
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    I think the reason people feel that C is superior is because the "B" in BASIC stands for Beginners and they find that insulting.
    There's a more to it than that. I don't know how many of you were doing BASIC programming in the 90s but I very clearly remember a time when BASIC was truly a toy language. I spent a great deal of my early teenage years in QuickBasic and QuickBasic Extended and let me tell you, it wasn't fun if you were ambitious. Do you know how many times in the 90s I'd see programs written in PASCAL, C and Assembly doing things I could only dream about. I lack so much fundamental knowledge that no matter how hard I tried at the time, I just could not figure out how to write programs in C. I really wanted to learn Assembly which was basically impossible for me at the time given my severe lack of understanding about how computers really worked. I remember hating that so much. I couldn't even do the most basic thing like changing a file's attribute. I also remember wanting so badly to be able to enumerate sub directories on disk but unable to because the standard QuickBasic libraries offer no way to do it. If you wanted even these simple functions, you had to write them in something like C or Assembly and statically link them to your QuickBasic program. It's not like today where the OS gives you all that in the form of simple functions you can easily import from DLLs.

    Now doing advanced stuff in QuickBasic wasn't impossible. You could use PEEK and POKE to do a lot of low level stuff but that kind of thing was way over my head at the time and even if it wasn't, PEEK/POKE was very limited and very clumsy to use. It would have been a WHOLE lot cleaner to just write the code in Assembly or C and avoid all that PEEK and POKE mess. PEEK/POKE was functionally equivalent to Assembly's MOV instruction but that was it. Why do low level programming in a language that only offered one such instruction when you could use a language that gave you a whole lot of low level instructions to work with.

    Point is, BASIC was extremely limited to the point of not being very useful without some serious augmentation. The only thing QuickBasic was good for writing out of the box was CRUD applications. Anything that even approaches systems programming, even in the slightest degree was very painful. BASIC really was just a toy.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  18. #98
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Try being ambitious on a TRS-80 Level 1 with 4K RAM.

    When BASIC was a toy language, computers were darn near toys, as well. Still, that's essentially why I learned C/C++, as well.
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  19. #99
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by wqweto View Post
    But Niya's fears about 5-10 years from now and how VB.Net will end up in the dustbin -- the irony is that it's highly likely C# will end up there too.
    I strongly disagree with this. I think you're underestimating just how fanatical people with backgrounds in C and C styled languages are about them. They are way too fanatical and there are far too many of them for C styled languages like C# to die off. C# is everywhere. It's very rare these days for me to read any article on the internet related to programming in any domain and not see C# being mentioned. C# isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

    EDIT:

    Also, truth be told, I don't really mind all that much if I have to move to C# from VB.Net.
    Last edited by Niya; Jul 29th, 2021 at 02:14 PM.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  20. #100
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Try being ambitious on a TRS-80 Level 1 with 4K RAM.

    When BASIC was a toy language, computers were darn near toys, as well. Still, that's essentially why I learned C/C++, as well.
    lol.....I really don't miss these days, though I get nostalgic from time to time.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  21. #101
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    ...with one big exception. I've mentioned before that I'm working on a project with a whole lot of dlls, and VB has a significant advantage when doing that: Case insensitivity. That may seem like a minor feature of the language, and this post is already too long, but I can guarantee that case sensitivity hurts C# coders who work with dlls in Visual Studio. It's not a grievous harm, but it is a harm. You will create more bugs, and waste more time because of that relic of ancient times.
    This is one of the few things I absolutely HATE about C and their derivatives. I really really hate case sensitivity in programming languages. One of the annoyances I'm going to have to learn to live with.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  22. #102
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    I might prefer C# to VB if the case sensitivity and semicolons went away.

    The semicolons are just an annoyance of mine. They really make no difference, and in some languages (such as JS, which can be compacted) they do serve a purpose, but they really don't in C, anymore. As long as the compiler can tell you, "you didn't type this character at this place" you just know that you are doing something worthless. It's a minor aggravation, but an aggravation nonetheless.

    EDIT: And for that matter, the word "nonetheless" is a pretty fine example of all that is wrong with the English language.
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  23. #103
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    You know I used to hate semi-colons and to be honest, I still find them annoying, but over the years, I've come to have somewhat of an appreciation for them. Languages with semi-colons allows you to get quite creative with line breaks since you have so much freedom in where you can break a single logical line of code into however many physical lines you want and where you want. Used with some thought, they can make code look quite neat which makes it quite pleasurable to read.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  24. #104
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    I might give in on Python, which is a sort of bastardized Basic in many ways.
    Can't put my finger on it, but I find Python to be a lil ugly. I don't know why, but I don't get a good feeling readying Python code. Working with Python might be unavoidable though. Python is showing up all over the place, even more than C# is. And I'm also of the impression that Python has one of the most impressive collection of libraries of any language. A lot of really smart people are writing a lot of high quality algorithms in Python. That alone makes it worth having in your toolbox regardless of how ugly the language looks or feels.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena


    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  25. #105
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    Can't put my finger on it, but I find Python to be a lil ugly.
    A programming language shouldn’t depend on white space as much as Python does.
    "Code is like humor. When you have to explain it, it’s bad." - Cory House
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  26. #106
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    You know I used to hate semi-colons and to be honest, I still find them annoying, but over the years, I've come to have somewhat of an appreciation for them. Languages with semi-colons allows you to get quite creative with line breaks since you have so much freedom in where you can break a single logical line of code into however many physical lines you want and where you want. Used with some thought, they can make code look quite neat which makes it quite pleasurable to read.
    You can with VB, now, too. I don't know to what extent you can take that, because there's a point at which it becomes absurd, but I can break it up as much as I want to, and I still don't need semicolons.

    That was the point. As you know, VB used to have the line continuation character. I suppose it's probably still there, but so what? You couldn't create a multi-line lambda with the line continuation character, because it wasn't clear which was the line and which was not. At that point, they just removed the need for the line continuation character...and that has just kept on going. In VS2010, I could only write queries on multiple lines with concatenation (albeit inline concatenation, so it cost nothing at runtime). At some point, that went away, as well. Now you can just write strings until they end, regardless of how they are laid out. Code works that way, too. When you think about it, you don't need a line end because it is always clear where the line ends, regardless of how it is laid out in physical lines.

    I just tried out some absurd splits, and there are limits. For example, this doesn't work:
    Code:
    If someThing=1
     Then
    However, this does:
    Code:
    If something=1 AndAlso
     somethingElse=1 Then
    Technically, though, both could be parsed because the Then terminates the If condition. Of course, the latter isn't great, and the former is totally absurd.
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    There's a more to it than that. I don't know how many of you were doing BASIC programming in the 90s but I very clearly remember a time when BASIC was truly a toy language. I spent a great deal of my early teenage years in QuickBasic and QuickBasic Extended and let me tell you, it wasn't fun if you were ambitious.
    I can assure you that in 1990 BASIC wasn't a toy language. I was working for a company that were sales rep's/maintained/customized a very large modular accounting software package. This software was written in Business Basic (BBx). Working with the code sucked, nothing but a line editor. Luckily I got to spend most of my time working with Clipper creating custom database systems. But comparing 1990 Basic to C and comparing 2019 VB .Net to C are two completely different animals. As for only creating CRUD systems, well that's pretty much what most businesses that hired us wanted. Maybe all of them, trying to think of any software package I created that wasn't a CRUD system at the core of it.

    I'm not advocating VB, or any other language. I don't have a horse in this race, I'm retired. lol

  28. #108
    PowerPoster ChrisE's Avatar
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post

    I'm not advocating VB, or any other language. I don't have a horse in this race, I'm retired. lol
    lucky you,
    I've got another year or two
    to hunt a species to extinction is not logical !
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  29. #109
    Fanatic Member 2kaud's Avatar
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    BASIC wasn't a toy language
    Back in the 1970's/80's Basic was widely used on mini-computers (HP TSB, DEC RSTS, Wang etc). The main programming language for Pick was Basic. They certainly weren't 'toy' languages. I wrote several business multi-user applications for these systems in 'Basic'. However there were quite significant differences between these variations of 'Basic' - which again were different from the versions of Basic found on 'Personal Computers'. Commodore Pet, Acorn Atom and MS-DOS et al all used 'Basic' - but these were almost a different language to that used for the mini-computers.

    AFAIK, there never was a 'standard' for the Basic language in the same way there is a standard for C/C++ or Fortran etc. Each language provider could (and did) provide their own version. For MS-DOS, GW-Basic/QBasic wasn't really suitable for serious business applications - despite MS saying it was! That's when I used Turbo Pascal/MASM/TASM/Turbo C and then moved to MS VS and C++.

    These 70/80's systems did sterling work and I know of some that were still being used into the early 2000's - only being replaced when there were un-repairable hardware issues.
    All advice is offered in good faith only. You are ultimately responsible for the effects of your programs and the integrity of the machines they run on. Anything I post, code snippets, advice, etc is licensed as Public Domain https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/

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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Someone may remember these, someone may not... But some things never change...
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    Real Programmers Don't Use Pascal

  31. #111
    Fanatic Member 2kaud's Avatar
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    What kind of tools does a Real Programmer use? In theory, a Real Programmer could run his programs by keying them into the front panel of the computer. Back in the days when computers had front panels, this was actually done occasionally. Your typical Real Programmer knew the entire bootstrap loader by memory in hex, and toggled it in whenever it got destroyed by his program.
    Yep - been there, done that etc for PDP11 and other computers... I knew the octal loading sequences by heart. Ah the fun that could be had. I once had a front-panel entered program that played a tune using the bells on the 16 connected ASR33 tele-types. That scared the operator when I said it was the work of a poltergeist in the computer... I had it set up so that if a particular toggle switch was toggled, it started. I used to stand with my back to the computer when she entered the room..........


    Taped to the wall is a line-printer Snoopy calendar for the year 1969.
    And also a line-printer picture of Brigitte Bardot!

    College graduates these days are soft-- protected from the realities of programming by source level debuggers, text editors that count parentheses, and "user friendly" operating systems.
    I agree with this! The old 'fun' has gone. For one system we used at University, debugging meant examining a line-printer octal memory dump! Then there was the system that had two different loaders - one for usual multi-user operation and the second for single-user maintenance (especially users!). Once you worked that out... Then there was the system that kept users details in a special area of memory - which once you had figured that out you could....

    Our main taught language was Pascal - but we were also taught Fortran which I liked (we were also taught Cobol which I hated). When I was taught Pascal we still had to produce flow-chart(s) for the program - but that requirement was later changed to pseudo-code. I never did much with Fortran after University - just some Fortran programming for Dec TOPS-20 in preference to using Basic. I really liked TOPS-20

    Ah the good old days and real programmers!
    All advice is offered in good faith only. You are ultimately responsible for the effects of your programs and the integrity of the machines they run on. Anything I post, code snippets, advice, etc is licensed as Public Domain https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/

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  32. #112
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Now I can't speak for every version of BASIC on every platform of the 90s but understand, to me, all the flavors of BASIC for MS-DOS like QuickBasic and it's ancestral line were toy languages. This doesn't mean you can't make money from BASIC applications. You guys were already adults writing LOB applications which is pretty much all BASICs from those times can do. I mean think about it, what do LOB applications really do? They read data from disk, perform some math, for example money calculations and display the result on screen. Very simple stuff from a technical aspect. To my teenage self, this kind of thing was utterly boring. What do you think a teenager discovering the power of programming would be interested in? Graphics, animation, poking around in the system internals. I was hugely fascinated by the standard DOS tools like ATTRIB, FORMAT and XCOPY. What were they doing? How did they work? What secrets did they hold? This was the kind of thing that I was really interested in and BASIC really wasn't about that life if you get what I'm saying. Of course I could still indulge myself in some of the things I liked. For example, I wrote a text mode platform game, complete with a very basic physics engine, map editor and the ability to record gameplay and play it back. This was pushing the limits though.

    I remember getting a copy of Wolfenstein 3D and it wasn't long before I got interested in level editors for it and other games like it. I eventually found a map editor that could edit the levels of most of ID Software's early 3D games. That map editor can still be found today. I could create my own levels for Wolf 3D using this. It wasn't long before I wanted to do the same for ID Software's other games like Blake Stone and Corridor 7. Problem was, I had shareware versions of those games which the map editor refused to work for. Naturally, I turned to QuickBASIC to try and solve this. I was determined to find out how to edit the levels of these shareware games. I managed to get the source code to the map editor which was written in PASCAL and I remember I also had some C code that related to level editing ID Software games, though I can't recall where it was from or what it was supposed to do but with these two key pieces of information, I had all I need to learn ID Software's level formats which I did figure out. Thing is, while I could understand enough of PASCAL and C to get a general sense of what the code was doing, I didn't know enough to use these languages myself. What this meant was, I was going to have to use what I learned and write my own solutions in BASIC. It didn't take long for me to realize that I couldn't. I was trying to reproduce the stuff I managed to decipher in PASCAL and C into a BASIC version and there just weren't BASIC equivalents to what I was seeing in the PASCAL and C sources. I eventually gave up, my only accomplishment being a few lines of code that could read the binary header of one of the files.

    It wasn't until the drastic change that came with protected mode operating systems like Windows did everything change for BASIC. All the technical stuff I was interested in was put into the Windows API accessible by ordinary function calls by any compiler that implemented the ABI. Then of course, there was the MSDN library which came with earlier versions of Visual Basic and it had all the information for accessing this API and doing mostly anything you want. This standard is what we have today. We no longer have to do it ourselves. We could access file system internals all we want today with simple API calls. We could go all the graphics we want with APIs like GDI, DirectX and OpenGL. BASIC in today's world is vastly different from days of DOS.

    When I think back on it, not all of this was BASIC's fault. Microsoft could have easily put all the advanced technical stuff into QuickBasic's static libraries but they didn't. They deliberately left it limited. My problem is that it was far more limited than it should have been. It was limited to the point where I would not have hesitated to drop it and move to something better like Turbo C or PASCAL. I just couldn't. There was no internet like today to teach me the fundamentals necessary for my teenage self to move to more powerful development environments. The early internet was mostly kiddie stuff like kids making colourful pages about their pet hamster, not the vast libraries of useful information we have today. I was stuck in QuickBASIC until Visual Basic and it's vast MSDN library freed me from it's limitations. Then the internet became better with a lot of useful information and suddenly anything was possible.
    Last edited by Niya; Jul 30th, 2021 at 09:00 AM.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  33. #113
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    N To my teenage self, this kind of thing was utterly boring.
    Damn kids!!! Get off my LAN!!
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    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Damn kids!!! Get off my LAN!!
    lmao......
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  35. #115
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    I just stumbled on this gem of a thread on reddit while looking for something unrelated. Thought I'd post it here as I find it interesting to read views outside of our own little echo chamber here.

    They were discussion much of the same things like the reason BASIC is looked down upon, why they think C# is better and why the C syntax is much preferred etc. What I found interesting is that the verbosity of VB is still being cited as a reason a lot of people dislike it. Someone also brought up the same point I did about C# being more readable. It was very interesting discussion if you can take your feelings out of it. Most people didn't have nice things to say about VB, especially VB6, which was mentioned a couple times so if you tend to get emotional over your favorite language being trashed talked, be warned:-
    There are many reasons to hate the old versions of VB. Particularly, VB6 was complete and utter trash. It had a crummy IDE, crummy controls, and encouraged a lot of bad programming practices by making it easier to understand for programming noobs like engineers. VB6 was the language for non-programmers, and the engineer (or specialist) basically did this:

    But they also brought up quite a few points I've never even considered. It was a very interesting read.
    Last edited by Niya; Jul 31st, 2021 at 11:23 PM.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  36. #116
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    I'm pretty impressed that reddiots still feel so threatened by a programming language and tool set last updated 20 years ago. Of course part of the fear might come from the unparalleled stability that resulted in.

    "Verbosity" is a BS claim. Most programs of any significance are overwhelmingly made up of programmer defined data, class, and class member names rather than language keywords. Even then the keywords aren't that different anyway.

    But imagining them with their panties in a twist over this is hilarious. Nobody cares.

  37. #117
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    A second thread was linked in the one I posted above. This one seemed like it had a lot more people in favor of VB.Net over other languages. They also covered some really good points even I forgot about like the IDE being a lot more helpful with VB than C# and certain scenarios where VB's case insensitivity was a huge advantage and productivity boost. Real interesting discussion too.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena


    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  38. #118
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    I'm pretty impressed that reddiots still feel so threatened by a programming language and tool set last updated 20 years ago. Of course part of the fear might come from the unparalleled stability that resulted in.

    "Verbosity" is a BS claim. Most programs of any significance are overwhelmingly made up of programmer defined data, class, and class member names rather than language keywords. Even then the keywords aren't that different anyway.

    But imagining them with their panties in a twist over this is hilarious. Nobody cares.
    I donno, I didn't think the discussion was all that bad. They weren't arguing or anything. They were just giving their honest opinions. Yes they were passionate but I think the discussion was quite reasonable. They were certainly more civilized that we are when we go at it over topics like this. We really throw down over here lol.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena


    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  39. #119
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Also, I've always HATED HATED HATED echo chambers on the internet. I absolutely love discussions like that where it's not just a bunch of zombies supporting a single view point. I love to hear voices of dissent in a discussion. I think it's so great. It brings a level of honesty to discussions like that.

    As much as I seem to rally against VB6 here, don't think for a moment I don't seriously consider all the points you guys make. I may not agree with most of them but I like hearing what you guys have to say and I love challenging those views. I don't hate any of you for it and I have the utmost respect for all of you. But understand, just because I respect someone doesn't mean I'm just going to blindly agree with them on everything. For example, as much me and Olaf butt heads here on the forums, I really do have such a deep respect for him. He really is one of the most talented and hard working programmers I have ever met and I feel honored to have known him.....that doesn't mean I won't challenge him if I think he is wrong about something. It's just not my nature.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena


    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  40. #120
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    That quote you posted from the reddit just reinforces my suspicion about why C syntax is preferred: It's exclusionary.

    That quote talks about "making it easier to understand." OH NO!! Horrors! The unwashed masses can figure out what we are doing. Perhaps we should go back to the Latinate mass to keep them out?

    I've always suspected that the popularity of C is because it can form a private club for geeks.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

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