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Thread: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

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    Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    For the thread "VB6: Question-Databases, where do I start?", I have some thoughts.

    If A puts forward a wrong point of view, if others do not correct his wrong point of view, then the wrong point of view will mislead many people, and this forum will lose its professionalism.

    But if B corrects A's wrong point of view, then B becomes A's complicity in hijacking the thread (in addition, if C supports B, then C is B's slave or fan). Things are constantly circulating in this vicious circle.

    So I never mind someone hijacking my thread or talking about other things in my thread. I welcome others to talk about anything in my thread. Truth is always becoming clearer and clearer in disputes (in fact, truth is always in the hands of a few people)

    We imagine such a situation:
    There is a public mathematics forum where every math enthusiast can discuss problems, including elementary school students, junior high school students, high school students, undergraduate/graduate students, mathematics professors, and mathematics scientists. However, when undergraduates/postgraduates, mathematics professors, and mathematics scientists are discussing calculus, elementary and junior high school students constantly put forward opposing and wrong views, and constantly laugh at undergraduates/graduates, mathematics professors, and mathematics scientists. This is the status quo of this forum.
    Last edited by SearchingDataOnly; Jul 26th, 2021 at 08:06 PM.

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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    So I never mind someone hijacking my thread or talking about other things in my thread. I welcome others to talk about anything in my thread. Truth is always becoming clearer and clearer in disputes (in fact, truth is always in the hands of a few people)
    You have threads where you don't follow that credo.

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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by OptionBase1 View Post
    You have threads where you don't follow that credo.
    No, perhaps you have misunderstood what I mean. I have never opposed others hijacking my thread, but when some people are not discussing issues, but speaking with a quarreling attitude and purpose, I give a clear warning.

    In addition, some of Niya's views are valuable (at least beneficial to some people), especially since he now often posts codes to prove his views, instead of just saying some empty words as before. This is very good. What often makes me angry is that disputes are often caused by A, but B and C are notorious for hijacking and arguing.

    Edit:
    If a VB6er switched to .NET 15 years ago, his choice is correct.
    If a VB6er insists on using VB6 until now, then his choice is also correct, and he will be rewarded for his persistence.
    Last edited by SearchingDataOnly; Jul 26th, 2021 at 08:48 PM.

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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    The .NET/VB6 argument should NEVER be argued on any thread in the VB6 forum unless .NET is the only solution. Niya might argue that is always the case but that is obviously just utter bollox and no Niya I am not going to argue that here, so don't even start.

    The rule should be that if it is a VB6 question that is being asked in the VB6 part of the forum, then long diatribes about the benefits of .NET should not be allowed. Conversely, repeated and continuing nudges to convert to .NET should also not be allowed. It should be obvious to any competent VB6er what the benefits/negatives of using other languages are and it does not need to be rammed down our throats.

    The rule should simply be be "KEEP IT ON TOPIC", if you can't do it then get lost elsewhere. It should be easy to enforce and we can report all such threads to the mods. and those off-topic posts should be REMOVED.

    With regard to person A. and B, or should it be N and O?

    B is just as bad as A when it comes to responding to Niya's, sorry A's incessant badgering, I understand why B takes up the cudgels and if he was defending the thread I would support him but he isn't. Instead he is happy to continue the derailment arguing about spurious complexities of the the language that aren't in the context of the original post.

    He is correct that A needs to be taken down but not in that manner.

    We should contain A's evangelising to a separate part of the forum (the duel) where he can repost his diatribes and perhaps just leave a link on the VB6 thread he wanted to interject upon. I suggest we report all A's such posts and have them moved to "the Duel".

    The Mods. may be asked to step in a little more, I for one will be asking both A and B not to help on my posts, In general appreciate B's help but frankly it all degrades when A sees B commenting (or vice versa).

    An occasional short and fun off topic post is OK but we do need a bit more control if this forum is not going to degrade to a slanging match. As I said in the other thread, it is damaging the forum and poisoning the threads.

    When that poisoner is called out and responds with a "lol" then his behaviour is getting out of hand. Time to sort this.

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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    If a VB6er switched to .NET 15 years ago, his choice is correct.
    If a VB6er insists on using VB6 until now, then his choice is also correct, and he will be rewarded for his persistence.
    I programmed in various BASICs on Z80 systems in the 1980s
    I programmed in QB4.5, VBDOS for years
    I programmed in VB6 and tried switching to .NET 19 years ago or so and failed as I hated the language.
    I programmed in other languages since then, DCL, jscript, vbscript, .js, PHP and dabbled in Delphi
    I have overseen VB.NET and C++ projects as a project Manager for years.
    I returned to VB6 solely due to having an old project to resurrect.
    I have created a suite of tools that form a Rocketdock replacement in VB6
    I have converted two of those tools to VB.NET
    I am writing a Chat program that uses Dropbox in VB6.
    I will convert my chat program to VB.NET
    I am starting to convert my big VB6 program to something newer, all in VB6 at the moment until I decide on a new technical path but none of it will be done in VB.NET, the prospect is appalling. Much more likely to convert to TwinBasic/RadBasic.

    So, I know my different paths and I feel I know my strengths/weaknesses as well as those of the languages I have picked up along the way. I do not know them inside out but I do know what feels right.

    Thats it. My opinions stem from this level of knowledge. That is my programming background. Not the greatest I know but it covers decades so I feel my opinion at least matches those of some others. Furthermore I know where I am and what I am trying to attain. So, my choice is correct.

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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Personally I think it is odd that some seem to think VB.Net should never be used or suggested.
    I too have programmed in many forms of basic over the years.
    Of all the versions I have used my favorites are VBDos, VB6, VB2008 and B4x
    I have also written in several other languages Turbo Pascal, Turbo C, Visual C++, C#, Java, JS and a few others.
    Lately I have had several projects that I had to do in C# and a few I had to do in B4x and am feeling more comfortable with both of those.
    I also had a big project that I had to do in JS which I did not know very well and was a bit surprised at the power there once I got deeper into it.

    Still I feel the most comfortable in VB6 and will go that route more often than not but I never rule out any of the others.

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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Agreed, nor should you ever rule out other languages. Horses for courses.

    You should code in what 'feels' right and what you are good at. I do not think that .NET should never be suggested, we just don't need off-topic diatribes and counter-debates that derail threads. A suggestion or two is fine but when some help on a point is required it should be beholden to those that post to keep some semblance of appearing to be on topic.

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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by DataMiser View Post
    Of all the versions I have used my favorites are VBDos, VB6, VB2008 and B4x
    My favourites are QB4.5, VBDos, VB6 and .js. I particularly enjoyed VBDos but its life was undeservedly short-lived.

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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    The above was an example of a two line off-topic aside. I didn't need to write an A4 page extolling the virtues of VBDOS in a desktop environment and denigrating QB4.5 in comparison.

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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    I've moved this discussion to Chit Chat.

    Please for the love of God don't let this turn into yet another "VB6 is greater than VB.NET! No, VB.NET is greater than VB6" thread. As funny as it is to watch grown men take witty slaps at each other, the end result is that these types of threads usually get reported and wind up being closed.
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Well, you missed the point. We are not saying that VB6 is greater than VB.NET and also not vice versa, this thread is about precisely the opposite. It's about keeping on topic which you may have just failed to do

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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Let me hijack the thread

    What I want to point out is that some languages can be used for the same things but some other, well, no so much.
    If you are writing a hardware component then it will prolly be in C or Assemble and i would think is almost impossible to do that in VB6 or .Net, unless you have imported an API that is probably written in C .
    Another point is, each to each own. I mean, my work is mostly on database communication and bringing out program through that. For this my company used Ms SQL and VB.NET, currently we are moving to C# that I personally hate but that is what I have to do. I have done it before anyway.
    Now on this part it's a lot more sensible to use higher level languages that lower level.
    Now on web. I was a web developer for quite sometime so I was using ASP.NET and Javascript. I could argue that using PHP is a lot better for me but I did not make the switch back then. Here the high level language can be anything if you do the correct step and use JS components for the client side. You only need to use JS and components but JS and components you need to use.

    So the point is, relax and don't be to grumpy on changing. That goes for me also, as I am grumpy on change.
    Also I should state that on certain points in time I have used Pascal, QBasic, Logo (oh yes), assembly,C,C# and a glimpse of python.
    If I had to choose a language that if fan for me to program it would be assembly. Unfortunately, yeah, so I have almost forgot everything on assembly programming.
    .

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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Well, you did hijack the thread but its OK.

    We are all in agreement so far that all languages can be useful at the right time.

    All languages can be fun, appropriate and/or productive.

    The important thing here that the OP and I seem to be stating is that we should not push our own agenda in the wrong place and at the wrong time.

    If you have an agenda or even a crusade then don't hijack posts. For goodness sake, I love steampunk but I don't tell everyone to use it...

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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    Conversely, repeated and continuing nudges to convert to .NET should also not be allowed.
    I don't quite agree with that because of this:
    It should be obvious to any competent VB6er what the benefits/negatives of using other languages are and it does not need to be rammed down our throats.
    There are people who appear to be just starting out with programming, and are starting out in VB6. That's not advisable. The Classic VB forum is not solely for the silverbacks of VB6, so nudges in other directions don't seem to bad.

    On the other hand, derailing a thread with a long argument over the same worn out ground is not a good thing.
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Now that this thread has been moved to the chat sub-forum, then, guys, you can talk about anything here. Just don't attack each other.

    JS used to be the language I despised the most, and now it's my favorite language. JS seems to want to do anything, maybe we can make VB6 do some magical things like JS.

    I'm tired of doing repetitive things, I like to try some interesting things, VB6 is bringing me more and more fun.

    The world is always driven by some strange people. TwinBasic has brought us surprises. I hope I can bring you some surprises one day.

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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    One reply to Sapator, about something he alluded to without explicitly saying: Most of us, who are paid to program, don't really get to choose which tools we use. The job chooses for us. If you don't like the tools, you might be able to change their minds, or you might find another job, but neither of those alternatives can be taken lightly.

    I've mostly had the luxury of being able to choose which language I worked in. I would think that's somewhat rare.
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Well, I think people get bored due to the low activity here. That can put them in a mood to lash out just to say something.

    People have moved on. Some of this might be away from VB, VB.Net, and C#... or not.

    There have been changes in the workplace moving away from custom software, people moving to the "broadcast computing" model of phones and tablets where they become passive consumers of "content," etc.

    I think that was on topic, but I won't ramble on.

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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    I'm also very lucky to be able to freely choose my favorite language as my working language. Now I'm even more fortunate that I no longer reject any language, but like to study the advantages and disadvantages, differences, and similarities of various languages.

    I've studied many languages, and I've hated many languages. Very strange, I've always disliked the use of dollar signs in programming, because of this, I hate PHP. I hate Python because of double underscore and triple underscore. Because there is no clear variable type, I hate JS. I hate .NET because of the huge and bloated runtime libs. I hate C++ because of header files (now, I think header files are really a wonderful design)

    Now, I donít hate any language. Of course, my favorite language is still VB6, Golang, JS. I want to try my best to make myself like Rust, but I can't do it yet.
    Last edited by SearchingDataOnly; Jul 27th, 2021 at 11:06 AM.

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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Well, I think people get bored due to the low activity here. That can put them in a mood to lash out just to say something.

    People have moved on. Some of this might be away from VB, VB.Net, and C#... or not.

    There have been changes in the workplace moving away from custom software, people moving to the "broadcast computing" model of phones and tablets where they become passive consumers of "content," etc.

    I think that was on topic, but I won't ramble on.
    I fear you may be right.
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    Now, I donít hate any language. Of course, my favorite language is still VB6, Golang, JS.
    I have a coworker who is a Golang and Flutter fanatic. We use neither at work, but he is quick to suggest them
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    I hate .NET because of the huge and bloated runtime libs.
    You're in luck. Go with .NET5/Core, and you don't have to deal with the runtime.
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Oooh, do I feel some evangelising beginning to surface ? Watch it chaps. I've called the FBI.

    Silverbacks? Hmmm, I'm a VB6 silverback.

    I quite agree that noobs that appear on the forum trying to start out in VB6 should possibly be dissuaded. Having said that, it is still a good language to learn and probably as relevant as the weird languages they are learning in school.

    My boy is learning VB6 and he is flying with language and IDE concepts, many of which should easily translate to .js and C++. That is where we will go later. I wouldn't start him on .NET anything, I wouldn't want to scare him away from coding forever.

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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    I wouldn't start him on .NET anything, I wouldn't want to scare him away from coding forever.
    I learned how to program by learning Visual Basic .NET. In fact, my start date on this forum is when I started programming.

    I was incredibly lucky to have mentors like Shaggy, TechGnome, JMcIlhinney, .paul., Ident, Niya, and others because they taught me how to program generally rather than in language specific features. For example, I'd ask a question that had legacy Visual Basic holdovers and they would show me the .NET equivalent as well as explain how the code was working so that, if needed, the code could easily be converted to C#.

    By doing this I feel like I was able to learn other languages much more rapidly, even languages with dramatically different syntax like the various web languages I use today.

    My point is that if you learn the fundamentals of programming, without paying much attention to the syntax, then it doesn't matter which programming language you start off with.
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Besides, if you want to scare the poor kid, everyone knows you should start him on lisp
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    I have a coworker who is a Golang and Flutter fanatic. We use neither at work, but he is quick to suggest them
    Golang has received the warmest welcome in China. Now, the back-end system of www.bilibili.com, the most popular website among young people in China, is developed with Golang.


    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    You're in luck. Go with .NET5/Core, and you don't have to deal with the runtime.
    Yes, .NET has finally achieved the features expected by VB6ers 20 years ago. Unfortunately, I'm already old.
    If Microsoft made VB.NET fully compatible with VB6, then it was almost certain that I would become a programming master, but Microsoft eventually made me an ordinary person, perhaps Microsoft owed me a Turing Award.
    Last edited by SearchingDataOnly; Jul 27th, 2021 at 11:45 AM.

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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    My stick is better than bacon!

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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    It has to be said, any of us should be 'allowed' to program in any language variant we wish without anyone casting aspersions on our choice.

    I think VB6 having survived so long has achieved the honorary status as a language silverback in itself. We should, perhaps treat it with more respect. Olaf has proven it CAN do anything - but whether it should is another matter.

    TwinBasic/RadBasic have proven to me there is more life in the old dog yet.

    I am using VB6 as it gets me closer to the WINAPIs and I achieve more understanding of Windows itself by having less hidden nor abstracted away. I already know VB6 so I can fly personally in my coding and the IDE helps by being as quick as quick can be. It is also 32bit and I have a vested interest in a mostly 32 bit o/s, ie. ReactOS, so the two are a natural fit. I can test, debug and report ReactOS using my 32bit VB6 apps. Having some old programs that need to be resurrected just completes the picture. What with the wealth of pre-existing code and this forum I find programming in VB6 easier today than it ever was.

    It is however, but a stepping stone to greater things but I feel I will be here still for quite a while.

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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    If Google (or Facebook, or Apple) acquires TwinBasic, then TwinBasic may be able to regain 30% of the market share from .NET.

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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    I doubt it. The market is more fragmented than it was in the 90s. There are more languages pulling one way or another. Apple wouldn't do it, because they have enough languages of their own. It just wouldn't be swift for them to do that. Google does make more sense, but they'd have to build it into Android for it to be really adopted. That's not impossible, but also not the goal of TwinBasic, as far as I can see. Furthermore, Java already fills that niche fairly well. Back in the 90s, C/C++ developers liked to look down on VB6 (I say they liked to, because it really seemed that they LIKED to, without good reason). If Google acquired TwinBasic to fill a VB6-like role alongside Java, it wouldn't be the same. C/C++ could be a miserable experience in the 90s. Java is not. It's somewhat unpleasant, at worst.

    Therefore, I doubt that there is substantial market share to be wrested away from anybody, in the current environment. There isn't the niche that VB6 filled back in the 90s.
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Maybe it's just the line of work that I'm in, but I just don't see a huge market for RAD win-form applications anymore. That was why I moved from sensor/PLC integration with VB.NET and started focusing on mobile friendly web development. The pay per job was better in the former, but the consistency is exponentially better in the latter.
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    I'm working on a project that couldn't be done web/mobile, so desktop still exists. Certain types of games will be desktop only, and anything that is based on plugins can't be web, though mobile is technically possible.
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Back in the 90s, C/C++ developers liked to look down on VB6 (I say they liked to, because it really seemed that they LIKED to, without good reason).
    Yes, I have a deep understanding of this. So far, C/C++ developers have won, and Basic-style languages have been mocked and marginalized.
    Last edited by SearchingDataOnly; Jul 28th, 2021 at 03:41 AM.

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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post

    It is however, but a stepping stone to greater things but I feel I will be here still for quite a while.
    that is true,it's like a Builder becoming a Poledancer
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCJMGOkq_ss
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Besides, if you want to scare the poor kid, everyone knows you should start him on lisp
    To be really scared, introduce the kid to APL!
    All advice is offered in good faith only. You are ultimately responsible for the effects of your programs and the integrity of the machines they run on. Anything I post, code snippets, advice, etc is licensed as Public Domain https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/

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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Deleted ...
    Last edited by SearchingDataOnly; Jul 28th, 2021 at 04:25 AM.

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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisE View Post
    that is true,it's like a Builder becoming a Poledancer
    A bit cruel perhaps. I am in fact, a very good dancer having come from a a family of dancers, my mother ran a successful dance troupe in 60s-90s. I married one of the principle dancers so dancing is in the blood. I am 6ft, blonde and fit. So a dancer it could very well be...

    With regard to VB6, my stated aim has always been to carry on where I left off in 2003. To re-find my technological feet and to extend and update my projects through the same natural evolution that other VB6 projects underwent in that early part of the 21st century. I am just doing it a little later than everyone else but with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight.

    The idea is that I will learn something on the way. So, it is entirely possible that VB.NET will whisk me into its arms and pirouette the two of us away into a .FRED future.

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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    A bit cruel perhaps. I am in fact, a very good dancer having come from a a family of dancers, my mother ran a successful dance troupe in 60s-90s. I married one of the principle dancers so dancing is in the blood. I am 6ft, blonde and fit. So a dancer it could very well be...

    With regard to VB6, my stated aim has always been to carry on where I left off in 2003. To re-find my technological feet and to extend and update my projects through the same natural evolution that other VB6 projects underwent in that early part of the 21st century. I am just doing it a little later than everyone else but with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight.

    The idea is that I will learn something on the way. So, it is entirely possible that VB.NET will whisk me into its arms and pirouette the two of us away into a .FRED future.
    just Program the way you need to, don't try and please somebody else. I took up .Net
    in 2017 mostly because I needed it for Office (Outlook and Excel) automation.

    I really can't see any Database advantage usage between the two
    .NET or VB6(ADO,RDO)
    to hunt a species to extinction is not logical !
    since 2010 the number of Tigers are rising again in 2016 - 3900 were counted. with Baby Callas it's 3901, my wife and I had 2-3 months the privilege of raising a Baby Tiger.

  38. #38
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Understood. I won't be taking VB.NET up to please anyone, it is just a natural path of progression that some took as they had no other choice. For some it was the right choice. I have a few new paths open to me:

    o I can wait for TwinBasic and hope it is compatible enough to take my code and run it (it is pure VB6 more or less with very little clever stuff and light use of APIs)
    o I can do the same for RadBasic hoping for the same.
    o I can migrate to .NET (a lot of work, a virtual rewrite as every VB6 to .NET migration appears to be)
    o In which case I might rewrite in an entirely different language, separate the back end and re-write that in C++ to deliver experience in that language whilst retaining the VB6 front end that is already 50% complete
    o Then for the rest of the program that remains unwritten 50% I could see whether my C++ skills are sufficient.

    So a lot of choices but .NET feels wrong for my direction so I may be doing a migration there for the wrong reasons. I'll see how it pans out.

  39. #39
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    I'll tell you what, this forum is a much nicer place to be when the two main protagonists aren't arguing out as to which technology is best.

  40. #40
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    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    The funny thing is how rare it is for anyone to go into the VB.Net forum to sling mud. The reverse is common though, and probably reveals a very deep insecurity.

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