Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 41 to 80 of 155

Thread: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

  1. #41
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    36,465

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisE View Post
    that is true,it's like a Builder becoming a Poledancer
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCJMGOkq_ss
    That's pretty funny. Strange add.

    @SearchingDataOnly: Unfortunately, you are right. The C-family of syntaxes has come to utterly dominate programming languages, and is characterized by some bad choices that HAD to be made for C because of the ancient roots of that language. Familiarity may be what is driving language development, and language choices, for that matter. After all, this whole thread, and the one that triggered it, are rooted in familiarity. You can do anything you want in most languages today, with only some few, highly-specialized, exceptions around the margins of both languages and objectives.

    I've repeatedly said that humans are essentially tribal, and that extends to programming languages. You don't see it quite so much with VB, since it has always been the ugly duckling. It's still there, though, just not voiced quite as often. Dilettante talked about mud slinging, but there is really so very little that when there is some, it generally stands out. For the most part, I don't think that has to do with the various languages involved, either.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  2. #42
    Frenzied Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Norfolk UK (inbred)
    Posts
    1,088

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    The funny thing is how rare it is for anyone to go into the VB.Net forum to sling mud. The reverse is common though, and probably reveals a very deep insecurity.
    That's a bit deep... are you saying that they come here due to an inherent lack of self-belief or a lack of belief in their chosen technology?

  3. #43
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    36,465

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    I've always thought it was because that's where the fights are.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  4. #44
    Frenzied Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Norfolk UK (inbred)
    Posts
    1,088

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Do we fight over anything else at all? Perhaps that's it, that's the solution.

  5. #45
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    5,569

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    Do we fight over anything else at all? Perhaps that's it, ...
    No, to explain again...

    I was not arguing with Niya just for the sake of arguing.

    Instead I was correcting his wrong statement, which basically was:
    - VB6 is not the right tool, to write modern WebApps

    That's as wrong as can be, because when we talk about "choosing a language for WebApp-development",
    we are *only* talking about the language which is choosen to run "at the serverside".
    (the clientside-development of modern WebApps still boils down to running plain JS-code in the end,
    aside from a few WebAssembly-experiments, which nobody really incorporates into "production-quality-WebApps" currently).

    For a *fast* performing server-layer, the best choice (when we talk about WinOS-based ServerHosting),
    is implementing the serverside stuff in COM-Dlls behind the IIS-AppPool (or NGinx-for-Windows).

    And to produce those serverside COM-Dlls as native-compiled Dlls, one can choose between:
    - MS-VS-C++
    - and VB6

    The latter entry above is - to this day - the most comfortable tool to produce such COM-binaries.
    (including the ability for comfortable "RoundTrip-Debugging" of that serverside Class-Code in the VB6-IDE).

    As for Shaggys comment about "we heard the same arguments already a dozen times" -
    what I just wrote (a repetition basically of what I said in the "offending thread", which was closed),
    is apparently not mentioned enough, because even experienced VB6-Users like ChrisE have the wrong image
    ("the pole-dancing builder") in their head, when the opposite is actually the case - technically.

    VB6 allows *graceful* development of fast, serverside Code for modern WebApps.

    Olaf

  6. #46
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    South Louisiana
    Posts
    10,440

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmidt View Post
    VB6 allows *graceful* development of fast, serverside Code for modern WebApps.
    This is the exact type of opinionated response that spurs these arguments in the first place. You have presented a binary choice in producing COM-binaries then juxtapose it with development of server-side code.

    One can gracefully produce fast server-side code without VB6 or C++, but not worry about producing COM-binaries and vice-versa.
    "Code is like humor. When you have to explain it, itís bad." - Cory House
    VbLessons | Code Tags | Sword of Fury - Jameram

  7. #47
    Frenzied Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    1,657

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmidt View Post
    No, to explain again...

    I was not arguing with Niya just for the sake of arguing.

    Instead I was correcting his wrong statement, which basically was:
    - VB6 is not the right tool, to write modern WebApps
    But it's almost certainly not the right tool in the vast majority of cases. And your argument for why you think it is the right tool (which it may be, for you) seems to based on that it can perform better. Fantastic. That doesn't outweigh the many, many reasons why it is a terrible choice, when objectively evaluating the alternatives.

    And I'm not sure why anyone bothers with these threads (myself included, I had a larger more detailed post that I deleted before posting because what the f difference does it make), because everyone is "all mouth and no ears".

    It's all nonsense. Use what you want to use, let other people use what they want to use.

  8. #48
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Modesto, Ca.
    Posts
    4,752

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I've always thought it was because that's where the fights are.
    Yeah, that is the area of this forum where you have to roll up your car windows and lock your doors. lol

  9. #49
    Frenzied Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Norfolk UK (inbred)
    Posts
    1,088

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmidt View Post
    No, to explain again...
    NO Olaf, YOU are doing it again! Arguing the wrong argument on the wrong part of the forum.

    This thread is about doing the opposite of that and here you are doing it AGAIN.

    The problem is 50% YOU.

    You should NOT drag your arguments into every thread. Whether you feel you are right or whether you are right in that regard is just immaterial. You show yourself to be slightly socially strange when you do this. It is not not normal.

    I'd go so far as to say this is childish or socially abnormal behaviour.

  10. #50
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    22,733

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    Yeah, that is the area of this forum where you have to roll up your car windows and lock your doors. lol
    Makes one wonder what motivates people to go slumming then. Why go into the "bad neighborhood" just to make claims of superiority? Selling a little religion along with those smallpox blankets?

  11. #51
    Frenzied Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Norfolk UK (inbred)
    Posts
    1,088

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    ...along with those smallpox blankets?
    Is that what the free version of Visual Studio Code is?

  12. #52
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    36,465

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    I'd have to say that I don't agree, either. Fast performance is overrated, especially with web services. The code of the service itself is likely to be insignificant in the total cost of the service, and even more insignificant in the cost of a WebApp. I'm usually one to want to squeeze every microsecond out of code, but in the case of the web, there are whole seconds to be lost on the front end, and for some parts of most backends. The service code itself is likely to be unmeasurable between those two, so it's not worth wasting any time on. If you WANT to write your own server side dlls, then you certainly should. We're all about that. But for most people, use something off the shelf, don't roll your own.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  13. #53
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    36,465

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Makes one wonder what motivates people to go slumming then. Why go into the "bad neighborhood" just to make claims of superiority? Selling a little religion along with those smallpox blankets?
    If you want to argue, you go where the arguments are. That's what trolling started out as. It was the fishing term, not the folk-story type of troll. You cast your bait where you are most likely to get a bite. Niya likes to argue. He's said so repeatedly. Where else could he go?
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  14. #54
    Frenzied Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Norfolk UK (inbred)
    Posts
    1,088

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    You occasionally meet people that are super bright intellectually and they often lack the inter-personal skills we others take for granted. Perhaps that is what is going here? Socially awkward types that feel the need to pronounce their beliefs to the general public in the mistaken belief that we are interested - and whilst they are doing that, end up trampling on others feelings without realising the negative impact they are having.

    Well, for those people, here's the rule. Read the first thread, understand the context and stay on topic!

    If you take it as a rule, not a rule from me, it is just a rule of life, then you will do well.

    I will mark my next thread as an Olaf and Niya free zone.

  15. #55
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Modesto, Ca.
    Posts
    4,752

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Makes one wonder what motivates people to go slumming then. Why go into the "bad neighborhood" just to make claims of superiority? Selling a little religion along with those smallpox blankets?
    Not selling anything or claiming superiority. Seems like a harsh response to some light humor.

  16. #56
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    36,465

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    I have my views on languages, as well, but I don't really care all that much. That may be true of the vast majority of people (to be pedantic, the vast majority of people probably wouldn't know what VB meant), but that doesn't matter. The people who don't care, don't argue about it. However, there are people who REALLY REALLY care. And then there are a wide range of people between those extremes. Everybody got to where they are by following a path that they know pretty well, and others know barely at all.

    That is true for most things, but programming languages are a weird sub-category. People come at programming from so many different perspectives and motivations. For some, it's a tool to build something and they are not interested in the tool, but only interested in the thing they are building. Others are more interested in the tool than in what is built with it. Still others care about what is built, but only if it is built with a certain flair or style. People in one camp can barely fathom the existence of the other camps, let alone their perspective.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  17. #57
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    36,465

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    Not selling anything or claiming superiority. Seems like a harsh response to some light humor.
    Yeah, that's what I was saying, and you were agreeing with: That's where you go for arguments.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  18. #58
    Frenzied Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Norfolk UK (inbred)
    Posts
    1,088

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    Seems like a harsh response to some light humor.
    Dil can be a swine when he wants to but he is helpful and often fun too, he can be a little caustic at times.
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

  19. #59
    Frenzied Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Norfolk UK (inbred)
    Posts
    1,088

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I have my views on languages... People in one camp can barely fathom the existence of the other camps, let alone their perspective.
    Agreed, but surely they should also be intelligent enough to know when to argue or when it is just not acceptable to do so? By now, they should really know when to stop. Otherwise they have just revealed themselves as nothing more than educated and technically knowledgeable ... but deliberate trolls.

    That depresses me.
    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

  20. #60

    Thread Starter
    Hyperactive Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    447

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    As I said, I welcome to talk about any technology-related topics in my thread, even if these topics are not related to the subject of my thread.

    I used to hate Niya saying some empty words, but when he started to learn to use codes and examples to prove his point of view, I did not exclude Niya from participating in the discussion at all, even if I did not agree with his point of view.

    I welcome anyone to discuss that one language is better than another, but the premise is: use code and examples to prove your point. Please don't say some emotional words that have nothing to do with technology.

    Let's imagine that if two different camps use codes and examples to prove or express their opinions, how enthusiastic and positive this kind of debate is!

    Edit:
    In the thread "Why is VB.Net/C#/XAML + VS2019 is better than VB6? Here's why", Niya once said to record a video with an example to prove that VB.NET is superior to VB6 (higher development efficiency than VB6 ). Of course, after a long wait for several months, we did not see this video. What we have seen is that Niya will forever give up desktop programming and VB, and he will explore the world of web applications.

    But I believe that when Niya has studied Web programming for 3 years, Niya will again give up his choice and pick up VB.NET again.

    https://www.vbforums.com/showthread....=1#post5525382
    Last edited by SearchingDataOnly; Jul 28th, 2021 at 07:49 PM.

  21. #61

    Thread Starter
    Hyperactive Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    447

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    This is the exact type of opinionated response that spurs these arguments in the first place. You have presented a binary choice in producing COM-binaries then juxtapose it with development of server-side code.

    One can gracefully produce fast server-side code without VB6 or C++, but not worry about producing COM-binaries and vice-versa.
    Olaf has used many codes and examples to prove his point in other threads.

    Could you use the smallest code and the simplest example to illustrate your point? I believe that I can understand your code examples written in any other language (including assembly, although I haven't used assembly language for 25 years). Otherwise, your words are worthless except to cause greater controversy.

    Quote Originally Posted by OptionBase1 View Post
    But it's almost certainly not the right tool in the vast majority of cases. And your argument for why you think it is the right tool (which it may be, for you) seems to based on that it can perform better. Fantastic. That doesn't outweigh the many, many reasons why it is a terrible choice, when objectively evaluating the alternatives.

    And I'm not sure why anyone bothers with these threads (myself included, I had a larger more detailed post that I deleted before posting because what the f difference does it make), because everyone is "all mouth and no ears".

    It's all nonsense. Use what you want to use, let other people use what they want to use.
    If you can't prove your point with code and examples, maybe it would be better for you to be a quiet audience. You are turning a technical forum into a place for quarrels.
    Last edited by SearchingDataOnly; Jul 28th, 2021 at 08:01 PM.

  22. #62

    Thread Starter
    Hyperactive Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    447

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    NO Olaf, YOU are doing it again! Arguing the wrong argument on the wrong part of the forum.

    This thread is about doing the opposite of that and here you are doing it AGAIN.

    The problem is 50% YOU.

    You should NOT drag your arguments into every thread. Whether you feel you are right or whether you are right in that regard is just immaterial. You show yourself to be slightly socially strange when you do this. It is not not normal.

    I'd go so far as to say this is childish or socially abnormal behaviour.
    No, you don't understand the value and significance of a forum at all. You allow the wrong views of some people to run wild in this forum and mislead many others.

    Please remember that the truth (or top technology) is always in the hands of a few people, and the things most people understand are just common sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    You occasionally meet people that are super bright intellectually and they often lack the inter-personal skills we others take for granted. Perhaps that is what is going here? Socially awkward types that feel the need to pronounce their beliefs to the general public in the mistaken belief that we are interested - and whilst they are doing that, end up trampling on others feelings without realising the negative impact they are having.

    Well, for those people, here's the rule. Read the first thread, understand the context and stay on topic!

    If you take it as a rule, not a rule from me, it is just a rule of life, then you will do well.

    I will mark my next thread as an Olaf and Niya free zone.
    You complicate a purely technical community. It is precisely because this technical forum has some top experts (some people with superior intelligence) that I came to this community.

    Did you know that China's technology forum is 100 times larger and 100 times more complex than here, and you can see all kinds of terrible noises (including verbal abuse) there. I haven't entered any Chinese technology forums for 15 years.

    This is a technical forum, not a social forum. What we need to follow is the rules of technical discussion, not social rules. We can all regard each other as a virtual robot (IT person), but people with a scientific spirit (exploring the truth, seeking the ultimate in technology, and eager to help others) are always worthy of respect.
    Last edited by SearchingDataOnly; Jul 28th, 2021 at 08:46 PM.

  23. #63

    Thread Starter
    Hyperactive Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    447

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I'd have to say that I don't agree, either. Fast performance is overrated, especially with web services. The code of the service itself is likely to be insignificant in the total cost of the service, and even more insignificant in the cost of a WebApp. I'm usually one to want to squeeze every microsecond out of code, but in the case of the web, there are whole seconds to be lost on the front end, and for some parts of most backends. The service code itself is likely to be unmeasurable between those two, so it's not worth wasting any time on. If you WANT to write your own server side dlls, then you certainly should. We're all about that. But for most people, use something off the shelf, don't roll your own.
    IMO, your comments seem to indicate that .NET has not brought higher development efficiency to Web-Apps. Yes, I also used something off the shelf (a VB6 basic/core class library), I did not roll my own, did not develop such a class library by myself (in fact, my experience and ability are not enough to develop such a core/basic class library)

    10 years ago, when the Web world outside of Microsoft was growing wildly, I have to say that .NET was overestimated, and the wisdom of Microsoft's leadership was also overestimated. If it hadn't been for Microsoft to turn to cloud computing in recent years and begin to embrace open source, perhaps Microsoft would become another Nokia.
    Last edited by SearchingDataOnly; Jul 28th, 2021 at 08:28 PM.

  24. #64

    Thread Starter
    Hyperactive Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    447

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    Agreed, but surely they should also be intelligent enough to know when to argue or when it is just not acceptable to do so? By now, they should really know when to stop. Otherwise they have just revealed themselves as nothing more than educated and technically knowledgeable ... but deliberate trolls.

    That depresses me.
    IMO, the reason for this feeling is that you are unable to understand the profound knowledge or principles that others are telling.

    Many of us here (including you and me) have very rich experience in their respective fields of expertise, but maybe we have very little knowledge in another field.

    I said in post #1:
    We imagine such a situation:
    There is a public mathematics forum where every math enthusiast can discuss problems, including elementary school students, junior high school students, high school students, undergraduate/graduate students, mathematics professors, and mathematics scientists. However, when undergraduates/postgraduates, mathematics professors, and mathematics scientists are discussing calculus, elementary and junior high school students constantly put forward opposing and wrong views, and constantly laugh at undergraduates/graduates, mathematics professors, and mathematics scientists. This is the status quo of this forum.
    In my field of expertise, I'm a scientist. In the field I'm not good at, I'm just a primary school student.
    Last edited by SearchingDataOnly; Jul 28th, 2021 at 09:01 PM.

  25. #65
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    South Louisiana
    Posts
    10,440

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    Olaf has used many codes and examples to prove his point in other threads.

    Could you use the smallest code and the simplest example to illustrate your point? I believe that I can understand your code examples written in any other language (including assembly, although I haven't used assembly language for 25 years). Otherwise, your words are worthless except to cause greater controversy.
    Attachment 181935

    http://hrschoolhouse.com/wp-content/...gp-300x300.jpg (In case attachment doesnít work)

  26. #66

    Thread Starter
    Hyperactive Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    447

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    The attachment has been deleted by the moderator. Your picture is very interesting, but what I want to explain is: divergent thinking and jumping thinking are the basic characteristics of innovators, so most people cannot understand this way of thinking, but the world is driven by innovators.

    Edit:
    In addition, do you remember that Niya said to record a video proving that VB.NET is better than VB6? Maybe you can help him complete the work he can't do.
    Last edited by SearchingDataOnly; Jul 28th, 2021 at 09:13 PM.

  27. #67
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    South Louisiana
    Posts
    10,440

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    It wasnít deleted, the forum has issues including attachments.

    But it looks like youíve still missed the point. Maybe go back and re-read it.
    "Code is like humor. When you have to explain it, itís bad." - Cory House
    VbLessons | Code Tags | Sword of Fury - Jameram

  28. #68

    Thread Starter
    Hyperactive Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    447

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    It wasnít deleted, the forum has issues including attachments.

    But it looks like youíve still missed the point. Maybe go back and re-read it.
    I can't see your attachment.

    What I want to say is, I've seen examples of WebApps developed in at least 10 different languages.

    Some people are proficient in JS or Java, but they have never used VB6 (or .NET), so for them, what is the simplest and most elegant tool for developing WebApps (or server-side)? The answer is obvious.

    For developers who have used VB6 for a long time, even if they know other development languages (including JS), what is the simplest and most elegant tool for developing WebApps (or server-side) for them? The answer is also obvious.

    Don't forget, this is vbForums, this is also VB6-Forums.

    So, both technically and logically, I don't think your point of view is more reasonable.

    In addition, there is also a special situation. There are a few people (that is, people with extraordinary intelligence as yereverluvinuncleber said), who are experts in VB6, C++, and JS, as well as in-depth knowledge of Java, .NET, and Python. So for them, what is the simplest and most elegant tool for developing WebApps (or server-side)? Do you think the opinions put forward by these people are extreme or wrong?

    IMO, these people not only know what is the most suitable tool for themselves, they also know what is the most suitable tool for VB6ers. We don't necessarily have to listen to their opinions completely (because we have our own different situations), but at least we should respect and value their opinions, instead of thinking that their opinions are simple and naive, just like elementary school students laugh at mathematicians.
    Last edited by SearchingDataOnly; Jul 28th, 2021 at 09:58 PM.

  29. #69
    Frenzied Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    1,657

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    If you can't prove your point with code and examples, maybe it would be better for you to be a quiet audience. You are turning a technical forum into a place for quarrels.
    Code and examples of what? The fact that there are a massively diminishing number of competent VB6 programmers to write a web app backend in the first place? And that VB6 hasn't been supported in years? And that it can't produce 64-bit binaries? And you can't even purchase it from Microsoft anymore? And its future compatibility with Microsoft OS's isn't at all guaranteed?

    So yeah, explain to me why VB6's apparent performance advantage trumps all those issues? I look forward to your extensive response with code and examples.

  30. #70
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    6,379

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    lol you guys have certainly been busy.

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    In the thread "Why is VB.Net/C#/XAML + VS2019 is better than VB6? Here's why", Niya once said to record a video with an example to prove that VB.NET is superior to VB6 (higher development efficiency than VB6 ). Of course, after a long wait for several months, we did not see this video. What we have seen is that Niya will forever give up desktop programming and VB, and he will explore the world of web applications.

    But I believe that when Niya has studied Web programming for 3 years, Niya will again give up his choice and pick up VB.NET again.

    https://www.vbforums.com/showthread....=1#post5525382
    With regards to the video, I bit off more than I can chew. I actually made several attempts to record it and quickly realized that I can't do what I envisioned in one sitting without it having significant amount of dead air, in a manner of speaking. Basically it will be filled with long pauses where I mistype stuff, make mistakes, forget certain parameters on certain functions, have to google something quickly etc. While not a problem in general as its very normal part of application development, it's terrible for videos. No one wants to watch videos where with all this stuttering. I know, I've watched quite a few and it's a bore fest. Every second of the video should be on point. What all of this ultimately means is that I could not produce this video without editing. Basically, I would have to edit out all of the "dead air". The problem with that is that I have never done video editing in my life and I don't know a thing about it. I was all poised to learn how but then the balls came. What balls? Well while I was participating in that thread, I was juggling a couple of balls, basically other stuff I had to do. One ball came, then another, then another and soon I was juggling too many balls. I had to drop some one of them. With all these balls I have to juggle, you can imagine that winning an argument online is pretty low on my list of priorities. Learning how to do video editing and producing these videos would have been too much of a time sink so I had to drop that ball to juggle the more important ones.

    As for why I'm still writing VB code...Well that is the most recent ball. I was knee deep into all I can find about web application programming. I reading a lot about it, playing with Blazor, checking out what the latest trends are etc when I found myself having to put that on pause to re-visit an old VB.Net program. It's currently my top priority. It's basically a home grown version of Team Viewer that suits our needs exactly. It's not exactly a trivial project. The most important parts of it I wrote years ago but it needs a lot of refactoring. I'm rewriting certain parts of it from scratch, like the network code which is a non-trivial amount of work. So I'm going to be in VB.Net a little while longer.

    Soon as I'm done with this project though, I'm going back to focusing on web programming and most likely any new code I write from that point on would be in C#. VB.Net is already showing it's age, for example it doesn't have support for ref types like C# last time I checked. I refuse to get left behind again. I already made the mistake of staying too long in VB6, I won't make that mistake again with VB.Net. Microsoft made it clear they are no longer interesting in developing the Visual Basic language. The writing is on the wall.

    One more thing on the topic of the video, I really would like to do them. I will revisit it one day when I don't have to juggle all these balls. Just too busy right now to invest that kind of time into it. But before I leave this Earth, I will do it.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena


    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  31. #71
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    6,379

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmidt View Post
    No, to explain again...

    I was not arguing with Niya just for the sake of arguing.

    Instead I was correcting his wrong statement, which basically was:
    - VB6 is not the right tool, to write modern WebApps

    That's as wrong as can be, because when we talk about "choosing a language for WebApp-development",
    we are *only* talking about the language which is choosen to run "at the serverside".
    (the clientside-development of modern WebApps still boils down to running plain JS-code in the end,
    aside from a few WebAssembly-experiments, which nobody really incorporates into "production-quality-WebApps" currently).

    For a *fast* performing server-layer, the best choice (when we talk about WinOS-based ServerHosting),
    is implementing the serverside stuff in COM-Dlls behind the IIS-AppPool (or NGinx-for-Windows).

    And to produce those serverside COM-Dlls as native-compiled Dlls, one can choose between:
    - MS-VS-C++
    - and VB6

    The latter entry above is - to this day - the most comfortable tool to produce such COM-binaries.
    (including the ability for comfortable "RoundTrip-Debugging" of that serverside Class-Code in the VB6-IDE).

    As for Shaggys comment about "we heard the same arguments already a dozen times" -
    what I just wrote (a repetition basically of what I said in the "offending thread", which was closed),
    is apparently not mentioned enough, because even experienced VB6-Users like ChrisE have the wrong image
    ("the pole-dancing builder") in their head, when the opposite is actually the case - technically.

    VB6 allows *graceful* development of fast, serverside Code for modern WebApps.

    Olaf
    I'm talking about VB6, the product, not just the language. The language, IDE, runtime, compiler, basically everything that makes VB6 what it is.

    If you are suggesting that VB6 is just as good or better for developing web site and/or webapplications(both client and server side) than Blazor, ASP.Net, Angular, node.js etc then I feel compelled to say that is one of the most insane things I have ever read. Why in God's name would anyone want to write a web application or even a traditional website using VB6?

    I will concede one point to you. If you are talking purely about VB6's dialect of BASIC as it's own thing, perhaps with some kind of transpiler or even a compiler, then I could get behind that. I've never been that fond of JavaScript and I think Python is ugly, though I'd have no problems using them if I have to. I'd prefer a BASIC dialect in these spaces though I will probably still choose JavaScript over a BASIC dialect simply because functions are first class entities in JavaScript. Higher order functions are one of my favorite features of modern languages. It makes writing event driven asynchronous code so clean. It's the one thing I love about JavaScript.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena


    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  32. #72

    Thread Starter
    Hyperactive Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    447

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by OptionBase1 View Post
    Code and examples of what? The fact that there are a massively diminishing number of competent VB6 programmers to write a web app backend in the first place? And that VB6 hasn't been supported in years? And that it can't produce 64-bit binaries? And you can't even purchase it from Microsoft anymore? And its future compatibility with Microsoft OS's isn't at all guaranteed?
    (1) What you said are things that every VB6ers knows. Of course you can repeat these facts 1000 times in the vb6 sub-forum again , just like Niya. Niya is a very enthusiastic person. He repeated the words countless times to test everyone's patience.

    (2) That being the case, why do you keep appearing in VB6 sub-forums? You can reduce a lot of troubles by leaving the VB6 sub-forum, and others will also reduce a lot of troubles.

    (3) Maybe you can suggest to the moderator to cancel the VB6 sub-forums and rename vbForums to vbnetForums or dotNetForums.

  33. #73

    Thread Starter
    Hyperactive Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    447

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    lol you guys have certainly been busy.



    With regards to the video, I bit off more than I can chew. I actually made several attempts to record it and quickly realized that I can't do what I envisioned in one sitting without it having significant amount of dead air, in a manner of speaking. Basically it will be filled with long pauses where I mistype stuff, make mistakes, forget certain parameters on certain functions, have to google something quickly etc. While not a problem in general as its very normal part of application development, it's terrible for videos. No one wants to watch videos where with all this stuttering. I know, I've watched quite a few and it's a bore fest. Every second of the video should be on point. What all of this ultimately means is that I could not produce this video without editing. Basically, I would have to edit out all of the "dead air". The problem with that is that I have never done video editing in my life and I don't know a thing about it. I was all poised to learn how but then the balls came. What balls? Well while I was participating in that thread, I was juggling a couple of balls, basically other stuff I had to do. One ball came, then another, then another and soon I was juggling too many balls. I had to drop some one of them. With all these balls I have to juggle, you can imagine that winning an argument online is pretty low on my list of priorities. Learning how to do video editing and producing these videos would have been too much of a time sink so I had to drop that ball to juggle the more important ones.

    As for why I'm still writing VB code...Well that is the most recent ball. I was knee deep into all I can find about web application programming. I reading a lot about it, playing with Blazor, checking out what the latest trends are etc when I found myself having to put that on pause to re-visit an old VB.Net program. It's currently my top priority. It's basically a home grown version of Team Viewer that suits our needs exactly. It's not exactly a trivial project. The most important parts of it I wrote years ago but it needs a lot of refactoring. I'm rewriting certain parts of it from scratch, like the network code which is a non-trivial amount of work. So I'm going to be in VB.Net a little while longer.

    Soon as I'm done with this project though, I'm going back to focusing on web programming and most likely any new code I write from that point on would be in C#. VB.Net is already showing it's age, for example it doesn't have support for ref types like C# last time I checked. I refuse to get left behind again. I already made the mistake of staying too long in VB6, I won't make that mistake again with VB.Net. Microsoft made it clear they are no longer interesting in developing the Visual Basic language. The writing is on the wall.

    One more thing on the topic of the video, I really would like to do them. I will revisit it one day when I don't have to juggle all these balls. Just too busy right now to invest that kind of time into it. But before I leave this Earth, I will do it.
    Hi Niya, I admire your enthusiasm. But what I want to say is that you will never be able to complete that video, not only you can't complete it, but Microsoft can't complete it either.

    If you can make a video that allows people to clearly feel that .NET has unparalleled superiority over VB6 in desktop development (including database development), then Microsoft should pay you $5 million in advertising fees.

    Why is Microsoft now planning to phase out VB.NET in .NET? From the start, the overall plan of .NET was wrong, which I pointed out 20 years ago. You should know that Microsoft also has a lot of idiots.

  34. #74

    Thread Starter
    Hyperactive Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    447

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    I'm talking about VB6, the product, not just the language. The language, IDE, runtime, compiler, basically everything that makes VB6 what it is.

    If you are suggesting that VB6 is just as good or better for developing web site and/or webapplications(both client and server side) than Blazor, ASP.Net, Angular, node.js etc then I feel compelled to say that is one of the most insane things I have ever read. Why in God's name would anyone want to write a web application or even a traditional website using VB6?

    I will concede one point to you. If you are talking purely about VB6's dialect of BASIC as it's own thing, perhaps with some kind of transpiler or even a compiler, then I could get behind that. I've never been that fond of JavaScript and I think Python is ugly, though I'd have no problems using them if I have to. I'd prefer a BASIC dialect in these spaces though I will probably still choose JavaScript over a BASIC dialect simply because functions are first class entities in JavaScript. Higher order functions are one of my favorite features of modern languages. It makes writing event driven asynchronous code so clean. It's the one thing I love about JavaScript.
    You once again mocked and doubted the mathematician in the tone of a schoolboy. Don't you know that he has much more knowledge and experience in Web programming than you.
    Last edited by SearchingDataOnly; Jul 29th, 2021 at 02:39 AM.

  35. #75
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    6,379

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    Why is Microsoft now planning to phase out VB.NET in .NET?
    Because C# is something like 10x more popular. It makes no sense maintaining something that fewer people are interested in. The true power of .Net resides in the framework and it's supporting infrastructure like the CLR. It's not in the language. Personally, I agree with them. I use VB.Net because I'm more comfortable with the syntax but I've always felt that C# is a far better language and apparently so do millions of other people a lot smarter than me. I can do all the same things in C# than can be done in VB.Net. Microsoft phasing out VB.Net is not as big a deal as it sounds, just a minor irritation to those of us who are accustomed to VB.

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    From the start, the overall plan of .NET was wrong, which I pointed out 20 years ago. You should know that Microsoft also has a lot of idiots.
    I suppose you know better than all the millions of people who have adopted the technology. Millions of idiots just floating around out there with no clue what they are doing. Perhaps one day we will all unite under your wise leadership and move into the future with VB6.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena


    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  36. #76
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    South Louisiana
    Posts
    10,440

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    I think Microsoft screwed the pooch by having VB.NET (almost) completely compatible with VB6.

    Instead of an easier transition from VB6 to VB.NET like Microsoft envisioned, VB6 people mostly stayed put and new VB.NET developers used legacy methods. Just imagine if the Microsoft.VisualBasic namespace was never included and they ported the one good thing (TextFieldParser) into its own DLL.
    "Code is like humor. When you have to explain it, itís bad." - Cory House
    VbLessons | Code Tags | Sword of Fury - Jameram

  37. #77
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    6,379

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    You once again mocked and doubted the mathematician in the tone of a schoolboy. Don't you know that he has much more knowledge and experience in Web programming than you.
    There are literally thousands of people out there just as knowledgeable as Olaf, and they aren't building web applications in VB6.

    Olaf is truly one of the most talented programmers I have ever seen. No one here doubts that but make no mistake, he is a big fish in a small pond over here at VBForums. Out there on the bleeding edge, they are people that can eat him alive. I mean no disrespect to him but these if these people out there have managed to convince millions to adopt their technology then perhaps I want to be listening to them and not the lone guy still rambling on about 20 year old tech that the world has forgotten ever existed.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena


    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  38. #78
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    36,465

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post

    I welcome anyone to discuss that one language is better than another, but the premise is: use code and examples to prove your point. Please don't say some emotional words that have nothing to do with technology.
    That's really well said.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  39. #79
    Frenzied Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    1,657

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly View Post
    (1) What you said are things that every VB6ers knows. Of course you can repeat these facts 1000 times in the vb6 sub-forum again , just like Niya. Niya is a very enthusiastic person. He repeated the words countless times to test everyone's patience.

    (2) That being the case, why do you keep appearing in VB6 sub-forums? You can reduce a lot of troubles by leaving the VB6 sub-forum, and others will also reduce a lot of troubles.

    (3) Maybe you can suggest to the moderator to cancel the VB6 sub-forums and rename vbForums to vbnetForums or dotNetForums.
    If this discussion is strictly about a language capability comparison, ignoring all other factors, then I sincerely apologize to everyone (mostly myself) for bothering to get involved in it.

    And I post on here to try to help people out with their programming questions. Thanks for asking.

  40. #80
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    6,379

    Re: Some thoughts on VB6 forum

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    I think Microsoft screwed the pooch by having VB.NET (almost) completely compatible with VB6.

    Instead of an easier transition from VB6 to VB.NET like Microsoft envisioned, VB6 people mostly stayed put and new VB.NET developers used legacy methods. Just imagine if the Microsoft.VisualBasic namespace was never included and they ported the one good thing (TextFieldParser) into its own DLL.
    I agree with this, however, I still think VB.Net would have been doomed. BASIC has always had the reputation of being a toy language and this has literally nothing to do with the language. It's dumb luck because the people that really matter, like the people writing the compilers, IDEs and other tools for the rest of us to build applications with, they preferred other languages. And since we can't create applications without reinventing their tools ourselves, we have no choice but to use the languages they support.

    For example, if some young talented team decide to create a new development platform for say, building Android applications. There is nothing stopping them from making a dialect of BASIC the language of that platform. Let's say they did and this new development platform becomes the biggest thing since sliced bread, then BASIC will suddenly gain a lot of status. This is the reason why C based dialects are so popular. Can you image how different the world would be if the guys at Netscape chose a BASIC dialect instead of a C one when they invented JavaScript? JavaScript changed the world. BASIC would have been one of the most pervasive languages in the world if that had happened. It's just dumb luck that the people creating JavaScript happened to prefer C over BASIC. This same pattern has been played out repeatedly with a lot of game changing technology, enough so that C became is the most popular dialect of programming language in the world.

    Now it's not all luck. Just mostly luck. While both C and BASIC have their merits, I think C won because of its terseness. BASIC is a very verbose language and this rubs a lot of people, especially systems programmers, the wrong way. C's syntax is just sooo much better when you're dealing with very low level programming where you're dealing with pointers and such very often.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena


    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  



Click Here to Expand Forum to Full Width