Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

[sapator]

Like, yeah, windows 10 would be the last windows blah blah.
I never believe that but some felt for it.
So you obviously can see a preview of w11 if you google it or just get the leak (what leak ? ) . Looks excellent and very promising...Right, now that I puked. I can see that they moved the start button in the middle. Obviously, if they don't play with the @!#$#$@ start button in every version they will pee blood. And adds, tons of adds. Hah our admins would have lot's of fun.
Anyhow, are we falling into the MS rule that every second version is piss? Will have to see. Although for me w10 is piss so w11 should be better but for most of the people w10 is the good version.

P.S. Never ever trust microsoft.

[jmcilhinney]

Seriously, get over yourself. When Microsoft said that Windows 10 would be the last version of Windows, they meant it. The personnel at Microsoft and the computing landscape have changed significantly since then though, so why is it a big deal if they decide to change things a bit?

Also, this is really just a name change. What they are now calling Windows 11 could easily have been just another version of Windows 10. There was lots of debate before the leak and announcement whether the name would change. It's really more about PR and marketing than it is about technology. They want people to get excited about the changes and using a new name to make people see it as a new version is more likely to do that than just updating the visuals in Windows 10 again. Windows 11 is basically Windows 10 with the look and feel of the now-cancelled Windows 10X. If you would have updated to the next version of Windows 10 then you should upgrade to Windows 11, because they are basically the same thing. If you would have waited for a while to upgrade Windows 10 then do that for Windows 11. It's not brain surgery.

Tongue in cheek or not, your Microsoft-bashing is not funny. Not to me, anyway. There are legitimate reasons to criticise Microsoft, as there are for any company, but this is not one of them.

[Steve R Jones]

Why do a LOT of people moan and groan when Microsoft does what they do best?

When Windows XP came out - many people thought the world as we know it was going to end.... Windows 98 did everything anyone could ever want or need.

[PlausiblyDamp]

Like, yeah, windows 10 would be the last windows blah blah.
I never believe that but some felt for it.
So you obviously can see a preview of w11 if you google it or just get the leak (what leak ? ) . Looks excellent and very promising...Right, now that I puked. I can see that they moved the start button in the middle. Obviously, if they don't play with the @!#$#$@ start button in every version they will pee blood. And adds, tons of adds. Hah our admins would have lot's of fun.
Anyhow, are we falling into the MS rule that every second version is piss? Will have to see. Although for me w10 is piss so w11 should be better but for most of the people w10 is the good version.

P.S. Never ever trust microsoft.

OMG, they changed a name! This is the greatest conspiracy ever.

Seriously, why does a a company changing a name of a product bother you so much? The "Windows 10 is the last Windows" thing was said about six years ago, a lot of the main people in those days are no longer there now.

I am assuming that you feel free to change your mind on decisions you may have made six years ago without everyone you know condemning and mocking you for it.....

[yereverluvinuncleber]

You go ahead and bash Microsoft - they definitely deserve it.

When a technology company that touches everyone's lives, lays out its plans and says something then does the opposite, clearly what they are really saying is that they should not be trusted in what they say.

Companies should have a set of values that dictate their actions, many do just that. Those that don't are not to be trusted. Microsoft is one of the latter.

I love Microsoft products, QuickBasic 4.5, VBDOS, VB6, Windows XP, Windows 7. Decades ago I bought Frontpage and I even liked that too.

All were made obsolete just as I was getting to grips with them and replaced by something that was slower, lowered my productivity and cost me time and effort. In effect my money and a lot more was thrown down the drain, my trust broken.

I now use only FOSS tools and avoid all from MS except for VB6 which I still love, Windows XP and 7 which will be the last Microsoft o/s that I use (except for target testing).

What this announcement really tells us is that within the guff that is a Microsoft announcement is buried within each, another breach of trust. Within this one is the hidden fact that Microsoft 11 is not a new o/s but a variation of an old one with some enhancements. Simply that. Some GUI changes are unfortunately enough to hide that fact from the legions of plebs that think otherwise. So, any major change that affects the end user is a result of a management decision and not the o/s itself.

So, the deeper we dig within that guff we see the larger betrayal. The fact that Windows 11 will not work on PCs with a generation of chipset earlier than 7th generation Intel devices. That single point exposes the breach of trust that condemns most user's PCs to the junk yard.

That last point may change but only if everyone stops blowing smoke up Microsoft's multiple arses, stop defending MS for "just changing the name" and then start to kick up a fuss.

[Steve R Jones]

OR...contrary to what has been written so far-> What if MILLIONS of users like us and our friends and family wrote Microsoft and begged and pleaded to make another OS and they said OK.

Wouldn't that be the nicest thing you've heard in your life? Or maybe heard this week?

Clap for Joy - Be happy.... Or when the time to upgrade come - SCROLL on Past the option. Pretend like it's a vaccine and you're an anti vaxxer

[PlausiblyDamp]

You go ahead and bash Microsoft - they definitely deserve it.
When a technology company that touches everyone's lives, lays out its plans and says something then does the opposite, clearly what they are really saying is that they should not be trusted in what they say.

So once a plan is made there should never be any deviation from that plan, no matter how much time has elapsed or changes in situation? I would rather a company showed flexibility rather than a rigid adherence to a previous plan. The made a statement about the name 6 years ago, this isn't exactly a quick change of mind.

What this announcement really tells us is that within the guff that is a Microsoft announcement is buried within each, another breach of trust. Within this one is the hidden fact that Microsoft 11 is not a new o/s but a variation of an old one with some enhancements. Simply that. Some GUI changes are unfortunately enough to hide that fact from the legions of plebs that think otherwise. So, any major change that affects the end user is a result of a management decision and not the o/s itself.

So, the deeper we dig within that guff we see the larger betrayal. The fact that Windows 11 will not work on PCs with a generation of chipset earlier than 7th generation Intel devices. That single point exposes the breach of trust that condemns most user's PCs to the junk yard.

That last point may change but only if everyone stops blowing smoke up Microsoft's multiple arses, stop defending MS for "just changing the name" and then start to kick up a fuss.

Sooner or later an OS needs to take advantage of modern hardware and drop support for older hardware, however https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...1-requirements makes no claims about i7 devices or similar. In fact https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...tel-processors specifically says i5, Celerons, i3 processors are supported. When you are talking about a breach of trust and also posting incorrect information - ironic to say the least.

[yereverluvinuncleber]

Well, we shall see.

[Peter Porter]

Like, yeah, windows 10 would be the last windows blah blah.
I never believe that but some felt for it.

Sapatar, why is this a problem for you? Microsoft learned their lesson (hopefully), not to secretly upgrade a users OS to the next version, and since you're not gonna do it yourself, you're good. All techies knew Windows 10 wasn't gonna be the last since they gave it a version number. Regular people didn't even know that Win 10 was being pushed as the last version of Windows.

Anyway, their Win 11 reveal was extremely cringy. Felt more like they just solved all the world's problems, from starving children to world peace with just a few lines of code.

As soon as Panos started off the reveal like he won a Nobel prize for something, I knew this was gonna be a cringefest... like this production was just made for the purpose of winning an Emmy.

[yereverluvinuncleber]

It is just a version upgrade with some UI changes. That is part of the lie and it only matters because they make it a BIG lie by their own "bigging it up".

If they just said it is Wondows (sic) by changing one letter we'd all know it was still Windows.

"Let's put the 'OH' into Wondows!"

Marketing is lying... understood that it is essential to make more sales and to make the salesman feel big. However, one more lie on a stack of lies eventually makes the old dog (me and others) hear only the lying whilst the essential substance of their story is lost in the bullship.

If you feel betrayed, then that betrayal sticks in your throat and it takes more than the same old bullship to shift it.

The culture in computing these days is not base upon merit or appropriate technology. It is all about ephemeral marketing, creative destruction and selling handheld devices in volume to the proles. Big it up!

[Steve R Jones]

I've got five bucks that says yereverluvinuncleber is typing on a device with WINDOWS and will continue to do so for years.

If the world was half as horrible as he says it is - he'd switch to something else

[jmcilhinney]

If you feel betrayed

It probably says at least as much about you as it does about them. They were never your friend to begin with so how can they betray you? It's almost like you don't understand how capitalism works. Again, there are legitimate criticisms of Microsoft, as there are of any corporation, but this is just whining. I suspect that it's whining brought on by an inability to deal with the demise of VB6.

[yereverluvinuncleber]

It's an inability to accept corporate betrayal. I put my money and effort elsewhere now. The only reason for any of my involvement in any MS environment is now legacy. VB6 is something I enjoy and without it I would have abandoned MS years ago.

RADBasic and TwinBasic are my hopes for migrating away from MS ultimately.

I want a desktop not polluted by Microsoft's regular re-imagining of the GUI and desktop experience.

The core o/s is superb and that is what I want, the option to divorce Microsoft's strategy as expressed in its GUI and user experience. If I could take just the current core o/s and give it the GUI of my choice with full themeing and the shell of preference to me then I'd probably stick with Windows but that option is not given to us.

That is why I have ReactOS as a partial exit route allowing running of single programs such as photoshop on a ReactOS VM on Kubuntu. Not yet ready but the future always comes.

The desktop being Kubuntu I can run thunderbird, firefox, palemoon and all the other FOSS tools I use natively on Linux as well as some Windows tools on Wine. My struggle is that I am a dyed-in-the-wool Windows loyal user/developer and I currently want to use anything other than Windows.

Its a sandwich of lies, betrayal and the bad taste of an unpleasant UI. I don't want to eat it.

[yereverluvinuncleber]

I've got five bucks that says yereverluvinuncleber is typing on a device with WINDOWS and will continue to do so for years.

I do most target testing on Windows XP 32bit and 7 32/64. I do some testing on Mac os/x, Win10. I develop on Win 7 64 on a Dell e6410 using Windows (as previously stated by both of us). I reiterate, XP and 7 are my preferred o/ses of choice. Then Kubuntu and all the same apps on one major desktop for the step by step migration from Windows plus Raspbian on two 'cooking' devices. Iphone for everything else day to day.

The point is I don't want to use Windows in its current form due to all the bullship whilst the other offerings are looking more and more attractive all the time. MS and its continuous bullship doesn't help that view. People are walking, even those loyal with investment in the platform.

I suggest that I will be completely migrated with two years if TB/RB make it. VB6+ on other platforms is such an exciting idea.

If the world was half as horrible as he says it is - he'd switch to something else

Who said the world was horrible? I said MS' betrayal, lies and a consistently poor desktop UI was the issue. Yes, I am mostly switched, only VB6, photoshop and one other legacy tool to go, then I dump Windows.

[Peter Porter]

I've got five bucks that says yereverluvinuncleber is typing on a device with WINDOWS and will continue to do so for years.

Be careful. Placing bets on him might send him over the edge!

I do most target testing on Windows XP 32bit and 7 32/64. I do some testing on Mac os/x, Win10....

The point is I don't want to use Windows in its current form due to all the bullship whilst the other offerings are looking more and more attractive all the time. MS and its continuous bullship doesn't help that view. People are walking, even those loyal with investment in the platform.

Crap... I'm too late!

If you feel betrayed, then that betrayal sticks in your throat and it takes more than the same old bullship to shift it.

Maybe you should seek pyschiatric help. Continuing a relationship with Microsoft while feelin' deep resentment is not healthy! This can escalate to you cursing at your monitor, strangling your mouse, to kicking your PC and tossing laptops like frisbees!

[Shaggy Hiker]

I am assuming that you feel free to change your mind on decisions you may have made six years ago without everyone you know condemning and mocking you for it.....

Nope, I never remember the decisions I made six years ago, and I DO get mocked for contradicting myself. I find it humorous, too, so there's that.

Otherwise, I pretty much agree, except for the need to move the cheese every time. If we train people to a certain layout, there had better be a REALLY good reason to change the layout. Most of the changes in Win11 will be changes the same as you see in all the other major updates, but why is the START button being moved? What fundamental benefit does putting it in the center provide that makes it worth changing the expectation of the user? Perhaps there is one, so that's not a rhetorical question, but I certainly don't see one, and fear that this is a case of form being advanced beyond function.

[Peter Porter]

Most of the changes in Win11 will be changes the same as you see in all the other major updates, but why is the START button being moved? What fundamental benefit does putting it in the center provide that makes it worth changing the expectation of the user?

They should've placed the Start button and other taskbar controls into all Window's right-click menus. We would be able to access it faster if we know where to look for it.

[yereverluvinuncleber]

Just give people the choice to use the UI we individually prefer, that's it. Remove the hype, give everyone want they want. Start undoing the bad blood they engendered. Support devs in the tools they want to use on the platforms they want. No-one should be restricted by corporate goals.

FOSS is where its at for a lot of what we do. For the rest, commercial utilities such as RB/TB is where I will put my money as those developers know they need to respond to our user requests rather than change according to the corporate whim of an uber-manager who knows nothing but strategy but in reality knows nothing. How many failed Microsoft projects/platforms/hardware/software have 'surface'd and then disappeared down a Microsoft black hole?.. Nokia was a good phone company, many of us were once a Skype user.

Windows 11 a new o/s? My arse it is but that's what they'd have us believe.

[sapator]

What the?
It was a humorous post for most of it.

Some people should really get over the fact that they bought and supported Windows Phone.

For crying out loud.

[sapator]

And I'm not even on windows bashing right now.
I have other things to bash, like firefox last update that extinguished the tabs border or chrome that makes my PC run like a turtle or my new sunblock that the tip broke off on the first use or that the last W10 update brought back all the options I have removed on my laptop...Oh, wait?!

[yereverluvinuncleber]

Well, my two most modern Windows PCs, a 7th generation Skylake Dell will not run Windows 11 nor will my 6th gen Dell Optiplex (x 2). Just tested using the 11 health tool.

As all but one of all my other PCs are older spec than even these, I will not be installing Windows 11 simply because I cannot (five laptops, five desktops, two win tablets).

It seems that it won't be me that migrates from Windows, Windows will migrate me. The future is certain, the future is Linux.

Does anyone have a TPM chip I can stick into my PC? Please send.

[yereverluvinuncleber]

or perhaps THIS is what they meant by "Windows 10 forever"...

[wes4dbt]

Remove the hype, give everyone want they want.

Now that gave me a good laugh. I'm all for it.

[Peter Porter]

Remove the hype, give everyone want they want.

Now that gave me a good laugh. I'm all for it.

Laughing? Everyone should get their own personalized version of Windows, starting with YerEverLuvin Windows, with a shouting Steve Palmer start-up animation.

[yereverluvinuncleber]

I'll give you that personalised version of Windows. Just wait.

[Steve R Jones]

According to Microsoft’s lifecycle website, the company will officially support Windows 10 Home, Windows 10 Pro, Windows 10 Enterprise, and Windows 10 Education editions until October 14, 2025. At that point, all regular desktop editions of Windows 10 will reach end-of-life status, which means that they’ll no longer receive security updates from Microsoft.
https://www.howtogeek.com/737125/whe...ng-windows-10/

[dilettante]

We'll just have to see how it goes.

If thee aren't enough people dumping PCs into landfills and spending their UBI on new ones, perhaps Microsoft will think about the requirements.

But if history is any judge I wouldn't count on it. Besides, they have few people left there who know anything but Metro applets so they want everyone on these Azure Terminal ("Windows 11") devices.

I expect a lot of thin voices to claim they'll run to Linux. But in general resistance is futile. Welcome to the world of Broadcast Computing, where they will control the horizontal and they will control the vertical.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Considering that it's uncle ber, a request to personalize the UI isn't so unreasonable. I wouldn't touch that for love nor money, since I would totally suck at it, but I could see a steam punk OS front being pretty popular. It would be useless, as pretty much all OS front ends are (let's see, I have two monitors on this system, and I can currently see....darn near NOTHING that can be said to be part of the OS, as I have things running full screen on both, and don't have so much as the task bar on the second monitor).

However, I have no problem with what MS has done in the past, and Win11 sounds like it would make a whole lot of sense for the two Surface Pros that I have. Anybody who wants to move to Linux should do so. It's the OS of the future, and has been for over twenty years, by now. Eventually, the future might arrive. I certainly wouldn't be putting much stock into programming languages that are works in progress by a small number of passionate people. Passion dies a whole lot more quickly than greed does.

We work in computers. Whatever we do is unlikely to still be in use ten years down the road. Any hardware we have is unlikely to last all that long. I think I still have a box with a 5.25" floppy drive. I certainly have one with a 3.5" drive. I still have disks for both formats, some of which contain software that worked either on DOS or early Windows, and which can't even run, now. It's not like other platforms are more stable, either. Change happens in this industry. If you want stability, go become a farmer.

[sapator]

I don't use Linux, I think the problem always was that the interface was "hard", now, that is much better I think that hardness thing "stuck", otherwise Linux seems to be better at many things. I saw drive copy tests on basic tools on both OSes that beat Windows more than 100% on speed. But of course MS products, since they are just that, MS products would run better on Windows.

[yereverluvinuncleber]

This TPM problem, it might just be Microsoft's ploy to give us something to complain about. They have four and a half years to do an about face but it might just happen within the next six months.


If the TPM limitation is a real one and Microsoft ensure it sticks in place, then that's fine. I have just bought two new old stock Dell Optiplex 3040 with 6th gen processors which I didn't really have a use for a few days ago, but now I see they are ready for a Linux installation as Windows desktop replacements, they are both powerful enough systems to make any o/s fly. They will be my testbed for my migration. I wasn't planning to start this early but I see that it will be fun and it is time.

[dilettante]

As far as I can tell they want to kill off 32-bit Windows and require an online Microsoft Account as well.

Makes sense. They hope to approach Google levels of activity tracking to sell to advertisers and the hardware guys lobby to upsell you to less efficient, hardware hungry, 64-bit operation.

[wes4dbt]

Killing 32 bit programs. I don't think many on this site would survive the anger and terror. Just look how bitter some are about Windows 11.

I'm looking forwards to Windows 11, it wont make a bit of difference for the things I do but it will give me an excuse to get a new machine. Been itching for a new machine for the last couple of years, just couldn't justify it. My 4th gen i7 still has more than enough power.

[jmcilhinney]

Been itching for a new machine for the last couple of years, just couldn't justify it. My 4th gen i7 still has more than enough power.

I think that some people may be overreacting just a bit. Who woulda thunk it, right? I have a 6th-gen Core i7 and the PC Health Check tool from Microsoft reports it as not compatible with Windows 11. From what I've read, Windows 11 will install without issue on a 7th-gen Intel processor but, on a system like mine, I can go into the BIOS and enable TPM (which I have done; it was disabled by default) and then Windows 11 will still install after I click through a warning. From what I understand, TPM is supported right back to 4th-gen Core processors so you should probably be able to do the same.

I also have a Surface Go with a Pentium processor so I'm not sure what the situation is there. Microsoft may have added TPM support via the motherboard but I haven't checked yet.

EDIT: For the record, wes4dbt, I wasn't including you in that group that are overreacting. I meant the people who are complaining about the TPM requirement when it seems that it is not nearly as onerous as they think it is. Of course, they are probably also the first people who would criticise Microsoft for a lack of security in Windows while also complaining about this effort to make Windows 11 more secure.

By the way, the BIOS setting to enable is called PTT for Intel CPUs and I think that it's fTPM for AMD. I think that these older processors that support TPM but have it off by default actually support TPM 1.2 but that will be enough for Windows 11 to install after a warning. That's what I've read, anyway.

Having said all that., I've been considering upgrading my system too, so I might just take this "opportunity" to do so as well. I use my desktop for gaming so I'm think that a new motherboard, CPU and (outrageously-priced) video card might be in order. My work SP7 will obviously have no issues.

[dilettante]

Well it's true the deadline is a few years off yet.

By 2025 many of us will be looking at end-of-life for old hardware and ready to upgrade.

By then we'll make the move, and our new Intel Quantum128 MegaCube series machines with terabytes of ram, Infinity™ zero-point drives, and SkiFi wireless Hypernet access will leave today's gloating i7 monkeys crying in their beer when Windows 11 buries their machines: "What happened?"

Hopefully their Moms' credit cards will have enough unused limit on them by then.

[jmcilhinney]

Regarding TPM, this is probably worth a read:

https://www.windowscentral.com/tpm-w...-what-it-means

As per that article, things are still in a state of flux but they are most likely not as bad as the doomsayers would have you believe. As that article also points out, Microsoft are far from the only company to leave old hardware behind when releasing a new OS and, in my opinion, probably do so far less than their competitors. Calling it "corporate betrayal" is simply laughable.

[wes4dbt]

From what I understand, TPM is supported right back to 4th-gen Core processors so you should probably be able to do the same.

There goes my justification, Thanks a lot!!! lol

I wont be in any hurry to upgrade. My PC is strictly personal use. Maybe my justification now will be I'm not smart enough to modify the TPM setting. No one will have a hard time believing that.

Btw - Please post how to modify the Surface Pro if you find out. My SP is newer than my desktop so the i7 should at least be 4th gen, it's about 3 or 4 years old. Don't have it at the moment, my son borrowed it.

[jmcilhinney]

I haven't tested it out myself yet but this also seems interesting:

https://www.windowscentral.com/whyno...ws-11-hardware

[sapator]

There is no way MS will keep rejecting hardware.
If they leave it at that they will get bashing (as happened with W8 BS. Someone here defended that as well, if I recall correctly) and they will release a patch.
So everyone that wants to get W11 don't worry.

That reminded me when I had a good ol' XT with good ol DOS and I was looking at the game boxes specified 286 and up requirements. Of course the games loaded but the frames went tik...tik....tik... I remember playing Wing Commander on XT. I was cursing my hardware and on the same time loving one of the best games ever made!

[jmcilhinney]

There is no way MS will keep rejecting hardware.
If they leave it at that they will get bashing (as happened with W8 BS. Someone here defended that as well, if I recall correctly) and they will release a patch.
So everyone that wants to get W11 don't worry.

I'm not sure what Microsoft's specific wording has been - I've read bits and pieces here and there - but I would expect that they just haven't tested all older CPUs to certification level yet but will do for many between now and release. I used the tool I linked to above and it was green for everything except CPU compatibility, which means that my CPU just isn't on the specific compatibility list but, based on people testing of the leaked ISO, it will definitely work. My 6th-gen Core i7 even supports TPM 2.0, which I thought might not be the case.

[sapator]

It's just a guess so I may be wrong but I don't think that they will really bother testing the CPU gen. It would be stupid for Windows to work on a core i3 6th gen and not on a core i9 5th gen. So it will run on a worse i3 and not on a better i9? Nonono I think they will just test memory GPU Disk space and direct X and let the users stick they head in the gutter to see how well it runs. But then again, it's MS so everything goes. Until they get the bashing and patch it

(P.S. Just heard Harrison is doing Indiana Jones 5?! What the? )