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Thread: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

  1. #41
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    Graphics board prices are currently nuts. Whether or not this will correct itself in the next few months remains to be seen, but I really feel that buying now is buying into the peak.

    Still, I've often wondered if games are the main reason why Linux was always the bridesmaid, never the bride.
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  2. #42
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    Having read the articles that JMC posted, I think I know what a mysterious 'additional' chip that came with my last motherboard does. I suspect it is a TPM 2.0 module, and that I left it out for lack of understanding what advantage it gave me...which was none, at the time. Still have it, though.
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  3. #43
    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    With regards to the list of supported CPUs:

    https://twitter.com/dispensa/status/1408582402998341633

    Yep, these lists (Intel, AMD, and Qualcomm) are the currently supported CPUs. The lists will evolve over time, of course, but these are the supported CPUs.
    I would expect that Microsoft will have to test each and every CPU they want to support before adding it to that list and they may just not have done that yet for some. The Pentium Gold 4425Y is on the list but the 4415Y in my Surface Go is not, so I'm hoping that it gets added once they get to testing it. That device is in the Insider Dev channel though, so it may get the upgrade in a few days regardless. Not sure whether they will prevent that or not. Might be in their best interests to get Insiders to test on currently-unsupported CPUs to see how they go.

  4. #44
    Hyperactive Member Peter Porter's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    Well it's gonna be ages before I upgrade to a newer PC. So far my 2nd gen i7 with Windows 7 is enough for me.
    Last edited by Peter Porter; Jun 28th, 2021 at 01:24 AM.

  5. #45
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    I'm kind of thinking that TPM might be the reason for Windows 11. That may be wrong, but security is becoming an increasingly big, if not sexy, issue. Win10 pushed out automatic updates. Some people were very much annoyed by this, but the reason is pretty obvious: People not updating their apps and OS have provided the avenue of attack for numerous large attacks. By not making updates optional, people are prevented from doing an unwise thing.

    With Win11, TPM is required. The rest doesn't seem all that important. The more touch-friendly features are nice, but only for certain types of users. It makes Windows better for tablet and 2 in 1 devices, but I'm not convinced that the same couldn't just be yet another new release of Win10. However, with Win11 there is this hardware requirement. Most of the requirement is pretty trivial. Sure, they need a fair amount of memory....but it would only be an onerous amount if you were still living in the early aughts. A computer bought in the last decade plus will easily meet the memory requirements. As for the CPU, that may be related to TPM, as there are some CPU that appear to have emulated TPM (normally a separate chip), and TPM is all about security.

    I haven't read anything about what MS is doing, mostly because I haven't gone looking, but security is an increasingly important feature of any OS, and by requiring TPM, MS is requiring a fairly high minimum bar. Will they go further and automatically encrypt things down the road? We'll see. In any case, they seem to be setting the minimum platform higher, which suggests that they want to build up from there.
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  6. #46

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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    As with any idiotic idea of microsoft this one will still have to go through the users.Like the start button the lack of desktop or the very popular (between the room of the creators of it) windows phone.
    I personally do not care the least as I will not be installing it. My PC is too slow and just fine with W7 and laptop is getting on my nerves with w10 but it was pre installed and I'm only using it when I'm on vacation away from Athens so I don't bother. Also if you have Windows XP, try to run the latest supported Firefox version. I know it's not secure enough but just to see the speed things load. It's 3 times faster on loading than latest firefox on my W7 PC and my XP old PC is from 2006 or 2007.
    Yes I'm doing a double bash, firefox and MS in one basket
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  7. #47
    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    As with any idiotic idea of microsoft this one will still have to go through the users.
    Except it's the users who are the idiots and have forced Microsoft's hand here by not doing the right thing in the first place. The users whine if they get hacked when it's their own fault, then whine when Microsoft does something to prevent it. Whined if you do and whined if you don't.

  8. #48

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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    What does security has to do with the things I wrote? What does a lack of start button prevents security wise?
    If you mean patching. I agree. I'm patching w10 laptop even if it still messes up my desktop. I have patched w7 as high as possible and I'm willing to take any security risk issue but I use a couple of firewalls, antivirus and anti malware and I don't open obvious malware letters or files.
    I'm not whining of course. I don't really care about w11, as I've said in the OP, I was joking.
    .

  9. #49
    Hyperactive Member Peter Porter's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    I've read on Wikipedia that TPM allows software vendors, and not the user who owns the computer, to decide what software is allowed to run. Great way to sabotage the competition!

    Also through TPM, Microsoft and software vendors could record users actions on their system that is undetectable by the user. Doesn't win 10 already do that? Sounds more like its main purpose is to collect information like what Google does on everything, with the guise of security.

    Anyway, it also states that an attacker can circumvent TPM with administrative or just physical access to a computer. Hell, no attacker has to result to Mission Impossible tactics if we mistakenly install their keylogger, malware.

    Sounds more like TPM is designed to benefit Microsoft and partners, and whoever that can figure out how to use it wrongly *cough, the right way*. Just looks that way from what I've read here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truste...dule#Criticism

    Guess I'll stick with my aging, but fast Win 7 system, protected by 3 firewalls, and it's two anti-malware antivirus programs. Got you beat, sapator!
    Last edited by Peter Porter; Jun 28th, 2021 at 11:44 AM.

  10. #50
    Hyperactive Member Peter Porter's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    Forgot, last night I discovered alot of new hardware, like motherboards without TPM, supports Windows 7 64bit. Even Nvidia's newest graphics card supports it, working fine with Directx 11.

    Maybe I'll shop this week to build a new Win 7 machine, but still keepin' the old system.

    Just call me crazy!
    Last edited by Peter Porter; Jun 28th, 2021 at 11:45 AM.

  11. #51
    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Porter View Post
    Forgot, last night I discovered alot of new hardware, like motherboards without TMP
    TPM! It's TPM.

  12. #52
    Hyperactive Member Peter Porter's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Porter View Post
    Forgot, last night I discovered alot of new hardware, like motherboards without TMP
    TPM! It's TPM.
    Whoops! I corrected both posts.

    Hope you didn't burst a vessel.

  13. #53

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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Porter View Post

    Guess I'll stick with my aging, but fast Win 7 system, protected by 3 firewalls, and it's two anti-malware antivirus programs. Got you beat, sapator!
    You most certainly did.

    (I know nothing about TPM and I'm joking here)

    So TPM strands for Trash Puke Microsoft? Or True Pollution (is) Microsoft?
    .

  14. #54
    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Porter View Post
    Hope you didn't burst a vessel.
    Not the first time, but the second time was a close run thing.

  15. #55
    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    I'm joking here
    No you're not. When someone makes snide remarks about Microsoft as often as you do, it's not done purely for humour. Of course, you are quite within your rights to make as many snide remarks as you like about whomever you like for whatever reason you like, but we're quite within our rights to call it out. Some may want to call me a fanboy for defending Microsoft because then they can tell themselves that they're the level-headed one and only someone delusional would disagree but I've got plenty of my own criticisms of Microsoft, as I do of any corporation. I just like to stick to sensible criticisms.

  16. #56

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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    Relax, I'm joking.
    TPM is global not MS.
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  17. #57
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    Nah, Sapator just enjoys coming up with 'original' insults. Targets are: The Greek government, other governments by association, vaccines, MS, and whatever else. It's kind of like Dilettante being suspicious, it comes with the territory. I've always felt that Sapator just enjoys the insults, and uses them against things that won't be offended. MS won't be offended.

    All our devices are increasingly tracking us, and we are helping them. We know that this is sometimes a REALLY good thing, but we also know that this could be a REALLY bad thing in the right hands. If you have some medical emergency in the hinterlands, you kind of WANT rescue to be able to find you. I've also happened to get some seriously on-target ads over the last year, which I really can't object to. One of them told me about something I wouldn't otherwise have heard about, and which I really wanted. Those would be examples of good things, one important, the other convenient. On the other hand....well, there's really no bottom to the well of bad things that could be done with all the information being gathered. We don't even need to imagine, as Hollywood does it for us in an overly exaggerated fashion.

    I turned off pretty much everything I could on Win10, I don't have an Alexa....but I just got a smart phone, and it was super useful on my recent 800 mile bike ride. Since you really only have two options when it comes to cell phones, those that track everywhere you go and do, and those that track EVERYTHING, it's a choice between giving up most of your privacy and giving up darn near all of it. The best we can hope for now is not so much privacy as anonymity. It's an important distinction. Something like an Alexa, Cortana, Siri, etc. are clearly useful, but a little thought should show that they can ONLY be useful by listening to what you say and analyzing it to figure things out. Mapping software needs to know where you are, and where you are trying to get to. Translation software needs to know another aspect of you. And so on. That's not privacy. If somebody is listening to everything you say, and watching everything you do, you have no privacy. However, if it is an algorithm, and billions are using it all the time, then you still have anonymity.

    We used to be individual fish swimming heedless in a private lake where no predators lurked. There are now predators, and we have taken on the value of the school. Our actions are lost in a pool of millions of similar actors taking similar actions.

    We just hope that works out.
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  18. #58
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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    Except it's the users who are the idiots and have forced Microsoft's hand here by not doing the right thing in the first place.
    Reminds of the people who whine about UAC, the same people who brought us UAC because they used Windows insecurely and whined about that.

    Insist on getting into the kitchen cabinets and eating chemicals found there... and Mommy will put you in a crib. Sadly, your siblings get the same treatment because of your misbehavior.

  19. #59

    Thread Starter
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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    Just a minute there. UAC with anything above mid is hell.
    That is not my opinion, our admins never upped over mid. And the main company they are administrating have over 500 employees.
    I guess they have more firewalls than Peter Porter and security software but I can safely say high UAC issssss (drum roll) BS!!!!!

    Now, I tried to log in to my laptop with w10. My screen flashed and I had 2 notification about W11, one in the top left and one in the middle.
    There was no option login in, there was a no network sign that I clicked and I logged in.
    I'm going to restart now to see if that comes up again. If so, I should try to find out and be prepared on how I will disable w11 from installing by accident.
    Let me check.....

    OK it did not come up again but it will probably do. That was funny,MS pooled a fast one on me!
    Last edited by sapator; Jun 28th, 2021 at 05:13 PM.
    .

  20. #60
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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    Stop drinking the Drano.

  21. #61
    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Reminds of the people who whine about UAC, the same people who brought us UAC because they used Windows insecurely and whined about that.

    Insist on getting into the kitchen cabinets and eating chemicals found there... and Mommy will put you in a crib. Sadly, your siblings get the same treatment because of your misbehavior.
    Something we can definitely agree on.

  22. #62
    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    Just a minute there. UAC with anything above mid is hell.
    That is not my opinion
    Um, yeah it is.
    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    Jour admins never upped over mid.
    Your admins' opinions aren't objective either.

  23. #63
    Administrator Steve R Jones's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    They (MS) have removed their Windows 11 compatibility checker.

    https://www.zdnet.com/article/window...ts-at-changes/

    https://www.zdnet.com/article/will-y...-say-for-sure/

    (post borrowed from another site)

  24. #64

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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    I won't make a remark because JMC will attack me again.
    .

  25. #65
    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    I won't make a remark because JMC will attack me again.
    If you can't tell the difference between criticism and an attack then maybe you shouldn't broadcast your opinion in a public space. You're not the only one around here to cry "attack" when you don't like people disagreeing with your position.

  26. #66

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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    No that was on purpose to see if you received that as joking or not.
    Apparently the last, but you can criticize all you want, I don't mind, you should have known after all those years.
    .

  27. #67
    Administrator Steve R Jones's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    No that was on purpose to see if you received that as joking or not.
    Apparently the last, but you can criticize all you want, I don't mind, you should have known after all those years.
    And the deeper the hole you dig - the harder it is to know when you're telling the truth.


    Side Note: For Grins and Giggles, Sapator should be banned for ____________ Weeks/Months___________ ? (fill in the two blanks.
    "I have been wanting to grow my own food but I can not find any bacon seeds."

  28. #68
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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    Aeons.

  29. #69
    PowerPoster Arnoutdv's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    Till the 1st of April

  30. #70

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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    Till A Monday but not clear what Mon...
    Oh,hey,Wait!!!
    .

  31. #71

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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    The w11 notification came up again!Dammit!
    .

  32. #72
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    Win11 isn't even out yet, and you're getting notifications? I've barely even heard of it, and if not for this place and these threads (this one and the one in Classic VB), I probably still wouldn't have heard of it, yet you are getting notices about it popping up on one of your computers. What's up with that? Is it your government in action? I've heard it was your government in action.

    You do realize that Win11 comes with a vaccine, right?
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  33. #73
    Hyperactive Member Peter Porter's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    The w11 notification came up again! Dammit!
    You can disable Notifications in Win 10. The option is under System. You can even disable it in Services.

    Writing how you run a tight ship with your Win systems, it's hard for me to believe you don't know how to turn off notifications.
    Last edited by Peter Porter; Jun 29th, 2021 at 12:31 PM.

  34. #74
    Hyperactive Member Peter Porter's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    Deleted comment.
    Last edited by Peter Porter; Jun 29th, 2021 at 01:18 PM.

  35. #75

    Thread Starter
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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    Not on the notification area.
    Before I log in.
    Let me see if the Laptop does the same and if I can take a picture...

    It did. Let me upload the images....
    Last edited by sapator; Jun 29th, 2021 at 01:32 PM.
    .

  36. #76

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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    Here. Who is the crazy one now?

    https://ibb.co/4pSNZmz
    https://ibb.co/b5bQycW
    .

  37. #77
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    Still you, but MS is clearly helping.
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  38. #78

    Thread Starter
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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    Me!ME?!!! Mouhaha, what do you mean me?! How am I muhhaahah?Who is what? What is that, on the corner, the shades the shadeeesssssssss!!!!

    You know I'm glad this happened, I can see MS is clearly spamming my PC +1 BS on MS.
    I'm willing to bet it is an optional update. W7 never spammed you with optional updates but apparently MS does now. I don't really mind tho it's not my main PC, i should have an admin look at this at work and find out what the optional update is an clear it out. I probably can do that myself but let them earn their living,no?

    Oh, European cup time....I'm offf.....
    .

  39. #79
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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve R Jones View Post
    And the deeper the hole you dig - the harder it is to know when you're telling the truth.


    Side Note: For Grins and Giggles, Sapator should be banned for ____________ Weeks/Months___________ ? (fill in the two blanks.
    I would get more grins and giggles from,

    Sapator should be moderator for ____________ Weeks/Months___________ ? (fill in the two blanks).

    That would make life interesting. lol

  40. #80
    Administrator Steve R Jones's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 11. Microsoft fooled you.

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    I would get more grins and giggles from,

    Sapator should be moderator for ____________ Weeks/Months___________ ? (fill in the two blanks).

    That would make life interesting. lol
    NOW THAT is funny.... And scary at the same time... I can limit his new magic powers to just the GENERAL PC section of the site... But then he'd also have access to the private staff section where he'd see things that would stunt his growth.

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