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Thread: [RESOLVED] Decent javascript IDE

  1. #1

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    Resolved [RESOLVED] Decent javascript IDE

    Coming from a VB6 background I have always derided .js as a development environment. No decent forms designer or equivalent, no intrinsic debugger except for what a browser provides, not being able to step through the code to find the values of variables without debug print statements everywhere, not being able to run the code line by line as you could with the old VB6 IDE.

    I suppose I was spoilt by the utility of the old VB6 IDE but all my expectations were set rather high by this experience. I hear some modern devs deriding the VB6 IDE for providing less then current 'modern' environments but for me, when coding in .js VB6 seems stellar in comparison.

    After trying lots of advanced editors, in the end I settled upon RJTextEd. It is a decent editor with a great deal of configurability but more important a developer who responds to requests.


    RJTextEd My editor of choice for programming in languages that have no inherent default IDE.

    In addition I used the Yahoo widget Javascript engine that has two benefits, 1. it uses standard javascript for all its logic. 2. has a debugger built in.

    A third benefit is that I can test all my javascript logic on the desktop.


    The Javascript debugger that comes with the Yahoo Widget Engine. Not as fully fleshed as that which we are used to but any debug statements and errors will be shown here.

    In RJTextEd I have a separate project set up for each of my programs and the project's run command configured to execute the program on a single keypress. So, I can run the program from the editor at my desire.

    In all my programs I have a right click menu option choice to call the editor directly so when a program is running on my desktop I can edit it dynamically and restart it on a button press.


    Right click menu showing edit option

    This all doesn't quite do line-by-line edit and continue but provides some flexibility in being able to edit and run. RJTextEd uses Language Servers (LSP) to provide full language support, hints &c and so the editor is growing to become a decent development environment for javascript.

    The only thing I have not replicated for javascript is the visual forms designer capability. I have some options that attempt to simulate that. 1. I use photoshop for my designs and then a jscript that turns the layers into an XML description of each layers properties, the YWE then uses that XML to position all the graphic elements.


    Photoshop design prior to script conversion to XML

    I also have access to the Xwidget forms designer a very good graphical compositor that does something similar exporting the design to XML. However, the xwidget engine is really not that good in most other respects... so I only ever use it to in its graphic design mode. I have a few tools /programs that can turn that XML into something useful on other platforms.


    Xwidget designer that allows you to compose any graphical element and save the positions, properties as XML.

    With all this I have a javascript programming environment that mimics the ease of use I used to find with VB6 but it never really reaches what VB6 did out of the box. I can create javascript apps for the desktop and with some work I can extend this to adapt apps for the web too,

    Times have moved on and things improve, so what I am asking is this:

    Is there now an IDE or environment for .js/.ts or similar that is closer to being able to provide what VB6 did with ease? If you have any experience of these advanced tools then I'd love to hear it.

    [Edited to provide images]
    Last edited by yereverluvinuncleber; May 30th, 2021 at 05:51 AM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Decent javascript IDE

    It has been quite sometime seeing a person develop in pure JS.
    I suggest you don't get trapped in a vb6 way again and use an framework, that probably could be integrated with Visual Studio (I have done so with Angular, but a REAL pain) and you can switch to something new but with similar feel the years to come.

    Btw Visual studio has gone a lot better when handling JS (you should have seen the early version pain, practically VS intelly suggestions would bug you code most of the time).
    Currently what we have at work is asp.net with Telerik, it's OK for controlling server side not so much for JS side but we needed mostly server side control, of course it's not free and I'm not suggesting it just telling what I have to work with.

    https://hackr.io/blog/best-javascript-frameworks
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  3. #3
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    Re: Decent javascript IDE

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    No decent forms designer or equivalent...
    Forgive me if I don't follow but isn't the "forms" html and not javascript?

    Anyway, thanks for mentioning RJTextEd, I will try it if it's better than Notepad++. I tend to use Notepad++ most of the time, and VSCode at times.
    Regards,


    As a gesture of gratitude please consider rating helpful posts. c",)

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    Re: Decent javascript IDE

    yereverluvinuncleber, you have to change your mind how these type of languages and platforms are managing UI. It is represent as code. As dee-u posted above, the UI is built using HTML (and CSS).

    There are some WYSIWYG editors but most web UI devs and designers stopped using as they are generating messy code. The UI code (HTML/CSS for JS type apps) is edited in text editors. More advanced text editors have syntax highlighting, code snippets, preview and other helpful features that makes it easier to create and edit the UI.

    Also design patterns like MVC and MVVM were introduced in past to simplify the development of web sites but also of desktop apps (.NET WPF). Separation of presentation (view) from logic is important to separate the job of UI designers/devs from backend developers which implement the logic (e.g. controllers in MVC pattern).

    The question is why not drag and drop and to write "code"? Because code can scale. Multiple UI devs can work on same "code" (e.g html page) and finally they can merge the results. Try doing this with VB6 and .NET WinForms where the UI is tightly coupled with the backend.

    Another reason to use "code" for UI is that it is text and it is easy to keep track of versions and allow manual or automatic merges. Also UI code is used by build systems where backend and frontend code is managed by different teams.

    One big confusion about JavaScript is that it was used in past as part of UI code to modify the HTML DOM. Then it was used to connect to backend services. Now it is mix between pure UI (HTML+CSS+JavaScript) + frontend code (JavaScript) + backend code (JavaScript). Again changing the mindset to think of separation will help finding what and where to use.

    Another confusion are all these JavaScript frameworks which help building UI. Most of them are for web apps where you need to have infrastructure with servers and clients are just browsers. But some of these frameworks can be used to create multi-platform applications - web, desktop, mobile. You can check Electron framework which can create web, desktop and mobile apps and is used for many known apps, including VSCode. Of course, check other frameworks to learn what and how it is done to get view on this tech stack.

    First choose what type of apps you want to create. All VB6ers want desktop apps that run everywhere - Windows, Linux, MacOS. So I think this is what most people on this forum want are desktop apps. Then choose framework that can be used for that. Finally learn how this works in details. In short: Electron apps are using Chromium as rendering engine (like webview control) for and Node.JS as JavaScript runtime. These two modules (Chromium and Node.JS) are built into the final application. They take space, they need more RAM but they run everywhere :-)

    Finally to reach the question: What IDE? My choice is VSCode as I use it under different OSes (Windows, Linux) and there is very rich extensions libraries which add more and more features like languages support, snippets, tools and more.

    Good knowledge of HTML, CSS and how to modify DOM objects with JavaScript are required to create the UI. Additional frameworks like the good old JQuery may help manipulating the UI but without HTML, CSS, DOM and JavaScript will be very very hard.

  5. #5

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    Re: Decent javascript IDE

    No. Sorry but no. I hate all that web bollox. Sorry to be rude or personal, not meant, I have just grown to hate Web design methodology from the 90s.

    I understand exactly how web apps are built using css/HTML and I am more than familiar with building complex client .js and PHP server solutions. I call these fractured apps and I have knowledge of building "fractured apps" when I was a web designer for years, ending up crafting CMS solutions based upon Joomla 1.0. That is when I discovered it was possible to code javascript apps for the desktop even if only for testing - but ultimately ending up with something that also works on the desktop.

    I do also understand that those auto-generating UI tools that were previously used to build web UIXs created messy code that did not port well from browser to browser but that's my point entirely. I am looking for the modern solution that does things better in the web sphere today.

    I was really hoping that things had moved on...

    I despise hand crafting css and HTML (more like piling different types of poo into bigger and bigger piles), as it seems so utterly backward and I'll do anything I can to get away from that, preferring to leave the compositing or "form design" to a designer that outputs something like XML - which seems to be the advanced way of doing things these days at least for modern languages such as that promoted by Microsoft using .NET core. I then have some tools that I can use to turn the XML into something usable on the web. You can see the sort of thing here:

    This is a GIF of one of my utils using XML and javascript.


    Desktop version above

    This is the web widget below:

    You'll have to click on it to see it in operation. It exists as a simple HTML page.

    https://g6auc.me.uk/WSClock/WSClock.html

    When you are there, click on the chain to make it operate.

    The .js code for the two is very similar, just the element composition is different. My apps are very different from traditional web pages and I am not really interested in creating traditional apps. I am just looking for something that can compose elements on a page and place them exactly where I want and then create an XML or CSS output to allow those components to be placed.

    It seems unbelievable that such tools still do not exist for .js. When I say '.js', frankly, I consider CSS, HTML to be the supporting rendering layer that I never want to touch as it is SO messy and retrograde.

    I want to design, place and code without being constrained by the design approaches of others. That should not be too much to ask. We've been doing it to the desktop for decades and as you can see from the above I am doing it too for the web already (but by hand and using conversion tools).

    It doesn't have to be able to craft the type of apps above, I'm just looking for something more advanced and more flexible than was available before, that works, that puts something on a page and allows .js coding to take place without all the HTML/CSS jiggerypokery.

    I have worked with frameworks but in my opinion they are a bit 'heavy' for what I am doing, rather large, clumsy and unwieldy and a whole separate set of dependencies that cannot be relied upon to survive the passage of just a few years (how many frameworks have you seen come and go?).

    They are overkill for what I need. I simply want the presentation layer to do its job. I would like a tool that can compose graphical elements and export that to the presentation layer. My logic is created in pure .js and it is a powerful language that can do more or less anything. That is my focus and my own personal belief is that the presentation layer should never even enter into it unless I choose to do so for reasons of optimisation or tweaking. If there is a good enough GUI or "forms designer" then it should not be necessary.

    So, my question, does such a thing exist? I have the feeling that it as yet does not.
    Last edited by yereverluvinuncleber; May 30th, 2021 at 06:41 AM.

  6. #6
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    Re: Decent javascript IDE

    It exists but you have to use what was mentioned.
    Hoping to get it your way is futile.
    Also the trend is Json not XML, XML is a dying breed and that is said from a person that despise Json mind you.
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    Re: Decent javascript IDE

    I'm not trying to get my way, I'm just hoping that the development environments around javascript have matured somewhat to begin to approach what has been available for the desktop for decades.

    I've not been looking for tools and solutions for quite a while and was hoping things had matured and that the tools had improved - or that there were any at all... I am looking for advice from the experts that use these things.

    I have my development environment already in place for the last 10 or so years and it works for me as I've shown above - but when you just lash a few tools together to simulate something better (as I have done) you periodically hope that world has come up with something better. That is what I am looking for.

    We have had it in VB6 and the like for the desktop, decades ago and visual designers are "de rigeur" for desktop development. It still surprises me that there isn't such a solution for javascript. We are so close and the technologies exist, they just need to be pulled together.

    JSON, XML, I have created utilities that read/write both. They all seem very much a muchness. I don't really care what is used to store data used at the presentation layer as long as it does its job.

    PS. With regard to the separation of the presentation layer and the logic layer in the back end, I honestly do get all that, having built such solutions. The thing is, javascript runs mostly in the client and it is a very powerful language and it can therefore do a lot. For certain functions, simple apps and discrete sites there is no need to separate the client from the logic it can all be done in .js in the client. In this case I see a parallel between VB6 and .js. Each language provides the logic glue but each deserves (but only one gets) an IDE which can create or configure the presentation layer which is achieved in config/HTML/XML or whatever leaving the .js/VB6 developer to code and the designer to do the legwork in this respect.

    Closely coupled apps have their place in simple programs and the paradigm of client/server web design doesn't always fit the bill when you want to create, run and test a simple program. I think the problem here is I am trying to use .js as if it is VB6, a programing language, whereas those familiar with developing websites are just using it as part of their toolset to build a web solution. It is just a bit of glue.

    [Edit = added the postscript]
    Last edited by yereverluvinuncleber; May 31st, 2021 at 08:21 AM.

  8. #8
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    Re: Decent javascript IDE

    JS SHOULD run everything on client side and any language VB6 ,NET , PHP Java should just feed the server data. Unfortunately most of the site don't do that.
    Having that in mind, frameworks exists to do that, just as discussed above.
    It's relatively hard to "mimic" a VB6 framework, I get and I could only have done that a couple of years ago when I was earning my pay on web developing but now I have to start allover if I need to but that is what the client frameworks are supposed to do, with no disregard to you issue.
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    Re: Decent javascript IDE

    I am being drawn to frameworks more and more. It is a direction I may have to go especially for javascript on the desktop in the future. Fractured programming it may have to be. Thanks for your time Sapator. I'll keep my head down regarding the web world for the moment but raise it again perhaps in a few more years to see what's new.

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    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: Decent javascript IDE

    In terms of an IDE, I personally use Visual Studio Code like peterst.

    But to me, it seems like you're confusing the RAD development of Visual Basic with how web applications are developed. Some CSS libraries like material and bootstrap have bridged that gap, but the drag and drop behavior you've come to love in desktop applications aren't reliable in web applications for many reasons (one of which, messy code, has already been discussed).

    One caveat is that I will use a drag and drop editor called Bootstrap Studio to quickly mock up simple pages that I can then export for demos, but I never use it for full fledged websites.

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    Re: Decent javascript IDE

    Drag and drop and dynamically recalculated and rendered layouts like HTML, XAML and similar are almost incompatible.

    It is first mistake when someone in .NET moves from WinForms to WPF for example. The editor allows drag and drop but the result XAML code is awful the same way 20 years ago WYSIWYG HTML editors were generating thousands of tables even for simplest UI. Well, not so awful in WPF but still bad in terms of maintainability and flexibility these engines have. XAML allows more flexibility compared to HTML layout options but using drag and drop is ruining the principles how to use them.

    Just as comparison, for those who use WinForms TableLayout and FlowLayout panels, it is like drag and drop controls directly in the form and have nightmares with coding when form should be resized (even with the powerful docking and anchoring) and putting same controls in table or flow layout panel with proper setup and the layout rendering engine will reposition automatically child controls when form or parent control is resized.

    HTML+CSS are the layout language for modern UI apps used with many languages and frameworks. WYSIWYG editor will help learning the basics and find how to write html/css code more properly. But to reach good final code it is required to be written manually in text editor which has preview window or just started browser which auto-updates the page on save. Dual (or more) monitors setup really helps to improve the modification without switching apps or using small preview windows.

    So to repeat again: the IDE for JS/TS UI is any text editor. Some have more features but in general you can do everything even in Notepad. Good editor like VSCode will allow adding snippets so some UI code is automatically generated without the need to type manually.

    Also for such development I prefer to use Linux in virtual machine. VirtualBox, Ubuntu or Linux Mint (which is my own choice as UI is more natural to Windows users), install VSCode, browser(s) with Chromium engine, Node.JS and everything required to work with the framework you want to test (e.g. Electron) and that's all. Open youtube and/or some tutorials on second monitor (or second computer or laptop) and just see how it goes by repeating all the steps. If you make a mess with the Linux setup or all those libraries required - restore VM from snapshot and start from where it was working fine. This is the only way to go "multiplatform", "desktop" and 32+64bit compatible.

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    Re: Decent javascript IDE

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    it seems like you're confusing the RAD development of Visual Basic with how web applications are developed.
    I'm not confusing anything. I have specifically said the opposite. I was not confusing, I was simply hoping things had improved, hoping, wanting, seeing the need for the RAD development potential of Visual Basic. Praying perhaps for its functionality.

    Yup, I know how web apps are developed, I've done it, time and time again. It's roughly the same as its always been, just a variation or two on how it was done in the 90s. It always seems to come down to vile CSS and HTML and hand crafting awful mark up code. Poking something with a stick to see how it rolls in different browsers.

    As described in the first post I already have a working environment that works for me, it is the equivalent of a framework but without all that configuration. I have an editor, I can code in pure .js and use it where I want, web or desktop. I have tens of thousands of lines of .js doing good stuff for me and others right now...

    I'm not looking to win a discussion on what is the best route to build web apps. Web apps are not really my thing. To me it is just an app and I don't care whether it runs on the desktop or via a browser. I suppose it is all about direction. My direction is from the point of view of building an app just as I would build any VB app. In this case I just want to code in javascript, place some items on a page/form and then capture some events and code for them. I am a coder, I code in VB6 and javascript. I never want to touch CSS and HTML again if I can avoid doing so.

    It seems so 90s, so retro.

    OK, my request was me merely peeking out into the real world to see if things have moved on from an editor, a browser, a framework and the F5 key. It seems not. Let's mark this as resolved.

  13. #13
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: [RESOLVED] Decent javascript IDE

    Yup, I know how web apps are developed, I've done it, time and time again. It's roughly the same as its always been, just a variation or two on how it was done in the 90s. It always seems to come down to vile CSS and HTML and hand crafting awful mark up code. Poking something with a stick to see how it rolls in different browsers.
    Not at all. I am so lucky that I'm a web developer in 2021 rather than 1998 because of the various CSS frameworks that allow me to add a class that in turn handles the browser resizing for me. Nor do I have to format websites using <table> elements.

    Take this for what it is, but you sound exactly like an senior architect I work with who constantly complains "I solved this problem in X language 5 years ago" without realizing that it isn't actually a problem in the different language/framework we're using.

    If you want to drag and drop crap on a screen and hope it smoothly works between something the size of an iPhone 7 as it does in a 32" 4k monitor, then you're in a world of disappointment, regardless of if it is VB6, VB.NET, or web development.

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    Re: [RESOLVED] Decent javascript IDE

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    Take this for what it is, but you sound exactly like an senior architect I work with who constantly complains "I solved this problem in X language 5 years ago" without realizing that it isn't actually a problem in the different language/framework we're using.
    I think it is a problem and as a result it requires an entire 3rd party framework to resolve it. That technology just isn't mature enough yet to resolve to something akin to the VB6 forms designer.

    Sounds like your Senior Architect was a sensible chap, must be a reason why he is a senior architect.

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    If you want to drag and drop crap on a screen and hope it smoothly works between something the size of an iPhone 7 as it does in a 32" 4k monitor, then you're in a world of disappointment.
    Exactly. That is why I was asking. As to crap, the technology we are using to build the web is still then, just a little crap - and hence I have my answer.

  15. #15
    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: [RESOLVED] Decent javascript IDE

    Why are we whining about drag and drop. Drag and drop was solved by jQuery a decade ago. I can only imagine the newer libraries do it even better.

    I've completely migrated a huge enterprise-wide application from VB6 to a rich internet app (JS/Ajax/JSON/VB.Net backend running in IIS). All my clients love it and I see the next 10 years to be even better. The satisfaction of dropping a web app in front of your existing MS SQL database driven systems and replacing the old VB6 client - priceless. I even migrated my VB6 report writer logic to .Net and it runs in IIS and uses pdfSharp to drop PDF's into the users laps! They open natively in the browser. I'm up to 18,000 lines of JavaScript code - best code I've ever written. And I started in 1979 on PDP-11's, then VAX's - lots of other mainframe / IBM work. If you know what the language DIBOL is, we can have a talk about the past, lol!



    This code wires up some "live" events - meaning that even when I create new HTML on the fly, if it has these CSS classes they get wired automatically.

    Code:
    $(document).on('dblclick', '.acs-drag-box', gridClear);
    $(document).on('click', '.acs-drag-total', gridSearch);
    $(document).on('click', '.acs-drag-search-run', gridSearch);
    $(document).on('click', '.acs-drag-search-clear', gridSearch);
    Some of those event functions...

    Code:
    function gridClear(event) {
        g_GMWorker.grid_clear($(this), event);
    }
    
    function gridSearch(event) {
        var wesThis = $(this);
        var blnOnRun = wesThis.hasClass('acs-drag-search-run');
        var blnOnClear = wesThis.hasClass('acs-drag-search-clear');
        if (blnOnRun) {
            g_GMWorker.grid_search_run(wesThis);
        } else if (blnOnClear) {
            g_GMWorker.grid_search_clear(wesThis);
        } else {
            g_GMWorker.grid_search_toggle(wesThis);
        }
    }
    Code that creates the "draggable" box on the SlickGrid. Note the last line with this trailing method: .resizable({ resize: i_drag_resize, stop: i_drag_stop });

    Code:
    var i_drag_box = function (i1) {
        var intGO = g_objGMaker[i1].parentInfo.GO;
        var wesParent = $(g_objGMaker[i1].parentInfo.parent);
        var objCNB = {};
        var dbTop = 0;
        var dbLeft = 0;
        var dbHeight = 0;
        var dbWidth = 0;
        var dbHtml = "";
        wesParent.find('.acs-drag-box').remove();
        if (g_objGMaker[i1].griddrop || false) {
            dbTop = g_objGMaker[i1].gridinfo.box.top;
            dbLeft = g_objGMaker[i1].gridinfo.box.left;
            dbHeight = g_objGMaker[i1].gridinfo.box.height;
            dbWidth = g_objGMaker[i1].gridinfo.box.width;
            dbHtml = '<div class="acs-drag-box" style="left: ' + String(dbLeft) + 'px; top: ' + String(dbTop) + 'px; height: ' + String(dbHeight)
                + 'px; width: ' + String(dbWidth) + 'px;" title="Use Handle in Lower Right Corner to Drag the Box to a Different Size.  Double Click the Box to Remove it from Grid"></div>';
            $(dbHtml).clone().appendTo(wesParent.find('.slick-viewport')).resizable({ resize: i_drag_resize, stop: i_drag_stop }); //.resize(i_drag_analyze);
        }
    };
    Last edited by szlamany; Jun 4th, 2021 at 08:31 AM.

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    Re: [RESOLVED] Decent javascript IDE

    I don't think that's the drag-drop that was being looked for, bur rather the drag-drop of draging the grid from a toolbox, and dropping it on the designer, and putting it in a specific spot, and so on... design-time drag-drop... not run-time drag-drop.

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    Re: [RESOLVED] Decent javascript IDE

    @tg - TLDR - oh well - I had fun anyway!

    Drag and drop IDE for form building is weak, imo - as was noted by others above...

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  18. #18
    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: [RESOLVED] Decent javascript IDE

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    That technology just isn't mature enough yet to resolve to something akin to the VB6 forms designer.
    I have a different opinion of form designers, fwiw...

    When I started with VB6 in 2001-ish, I realized that building forms was stupid. I hired three programmers and the "senior" one was building forms at the rate of one per "couple of weeks". Each form had pretty much the same boilerplate controls. And of course those specific to the needs of the moment, all painstakingly wasting your time - dragging elements onto a page. And then left-aligning them and then oops, messing something up. Just so a .FRM text file can be created?? Honestly? That's not cool at all. That old school deluxe. Instead I wrote an app with a half dozen common elements hidden on a form that get cloned as needed by the usage requirements at each moment. Store the elements you need in a DB table, draw them as specified in that table - and since you name them in your control table you auto-bind the whole mess at run time (even down to storing each column requirement for flex grids).

    But I guess I write boring customer service applications for health departments, social workers, tax collectors, labor unions, college administrators...

    But I write them damn fast! And it's all about ROI, imo.
    Last edited by szlamany; Jun 4th, 2021 at 12:18 PM.

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  19. #19

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    Re: [RESOLVED] Decent javascript IDE

    Yes, thoroughly understood. I was just hoping that someone, somewhere had found a solution that worked in all cases that I was unaware of. I will pop my head up again in five year's time and ask the same question and see if things have changed. I think it may require a fundamental overhaul of the markup language and methods used to build and style the web. Does anyone fancy taking that on?

  20. #20
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: [RESOLVED] Decent javascript IDE

    Why fundamentally overhaul the markup language and methods used to build and style the web? Someones already solved that issue 5 years ago.

  21. #21

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    Re: [RESOLVED] Decent javascript IDE

    GOTO 100 Repeat from start of thread...

  22. #22
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    Re: [RESOLVED] Decent javascript IDE

    We used to have tools like Visual InterDev (and the "kid's" version FrontPage). But those were pushed out of favor very early and so remained terribly crude. Over 20 years later they are almost comical. It's just amazing where we'd be if so much energy wasn't squandered on .Net, maybe even flying cars and Lunar colonies!

    But the turd polishers inherited the Earth, so here we are.

  23. #23

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    Re: [RESOLVED] Decent javascript IDE

    My brother describes himself as a "turd polisher", I didn't realise he was in charge.

    With regard to this thread, I am going to try something:

    unLoad Me

  24. #24
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    Re: [RESOLVED] Decent javascript IDE

    Drag&drop doesn't scale. For those who don't understand why "scale": because teamwork needs to scale with people. Drag&drop scales to 1 (one) person to modify the UI at a time.

    UI as code. Web site content as code. Documentation as code. Books as code. Presentations as code. All that code scales in collaborative environments to thousands of designers and devs. Also scales when single person works on multiple stages of project and gets mad of all not known details that can mess the development.

    Scale vs VB6er's mind

    Who will win?

  25. #25

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    Re: [RESOLVED] Decent javascript IDE

    unLoad Me is not working

  26. #26
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    Re: [RESOLVED] Decent javascript IDE

    Team work. Like 5 guys with axes instead of one with a chainsaw. One man's "scalability" is another man's "feather bedding."


  27. #27
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    Re: [RESOLVED] Decent javascript IDE

    I've never heard of feather bedding before, just kansianism.

  28. #28

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    Re: [RESOLVED] Decent javascript IDE

    - and it entirely depends upon what you are building. Horses for courses. If you are building a simple app for the web or the other place then all that scalability is just unnecessary. The scalability should not restrict you to building an entire house when you just want to paint the front door.

  29. #29
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: [RESOLVED] Decent javascript IDE

    How to paint using bootstrap:
    Code:
    <div class="bg-primary" id="front-door"></div>

  30. #30

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    Re: [RESOLVED] Decent javascript IDE

    But you can't see the door whilst you paint it as you are blindfolded. You have to go the neighbour's houses and look through their polaroid photos they've taken of your house to see whether you've painted all the other doors too by mistake. One of your neighbours are colour blind and the other only has a box brownie that shows the tones in sepia and they both swear the door is brown.

  31. #31
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    Re: [RESOLVED] Decent javascript IDE

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    How to paint using bootstrap:
    Code:
    <div class="bg-primary" id="front-door"></div>
    Express that with drag & drop :-) Maybe video, maybe 10 pages tutorial?

    Scaling for VB6ers in action :-)))

  32. #32

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    Re: [RESOLVED] Decent javascript IDE

    unLoad Me
    unLoad Me
    END

    .
    .
    .
    Not working.

  33. #33
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: [RESOLVED] Decent javascript IDE

    Use a sandbox like codepen.io or jsfiddle. The former has an auto-run function that allows you to see what's being built as you type.

  34. #34

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    Re: [RESOLVED] Decent javascript IDE

    That was the sort of answer I wanted for the questions I asked right in the beginning... thankyou.

    I'm looking for the tools others are using in their experience to overcome the limitations of the technology we use.

  35. #35
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: [RESOLVED] Decent javascript IDE

    You could do this in your HTML file too by adding this meta tag:
    Code:
    <meta http-equiv="refresh" content="5" >
    This code refreshes the webpage every 5 seconds. If the intent is that as you save the file, the changes are reflected, this is one way to do that.

    Edit - This would have been available during IE6.

  36. #36
    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: [RESOLVED] Decent javascript IDE

    I use VS 2019 to manage my whole web project - I can set break points in the back end VB.Net code as needed. And I run the app in FireFox and am so familiar with the debug tool in FireFox that I find myself very productive.

    I've always been the type of coder to write a snippet of code and run that to see the "shell itself" run and then slowly add more code - run and test again. Object and sub-objects make for some difficult variable names, but then again I can test code in the debuggers immediate window and copy/paste it into the .JS files back in VS.

    My app is already setup to allow for complete "HTML" source code reloading - so I can edit any HTML I might use (stored in VS .aspx files - with zero code behind) and request a reload of just that single "page", so to speak. These are not really "pages" - as they get loaded into the existing DOM that is running. I use VS to edit these because I can do a quick DESIGN review as opposed to just looking at the HTML source panel.

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