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Thread: Chauvin murder trial verdict / consequences

  1. #41
    PowerPoster techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: Chauvin murder trial verdict / consequences

    What I'm curious about is if the sentences will be consecutive or concurrent. So even if the one charge carries a max of 40 years, and he only gets 30 for that one, if on one of the other charges (or the other charges combined) he gets 20, and the judge decides to make them consecutive, then that's 50 years.

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  2. #42
    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
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    Re: Chauvin murder trial verdict / consequences

    This is another shooting of a black person so close to the "raw emotions" of this discussion.

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/21/us/oh...old/index.html

    I'm posting for a couple reasons.

    1. I live about fifteen minutes from there.

    2. Body cameras shown on local TV immediately defuses things. That and cell phones changed things so dramatically in national police incidents that the old lies that protected "bad" cops is gone. I'm referring to the "blue wall" and qualified immunity crumbling.

    3. The policemen, in my opinion was justified.

    There are local protest but all peaceful. Nice...

    If there were protests/Riots in Florida about a guilty verdict there are new laws that could be in effect:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...bill-desantis/

    That governor is looking to be the next Trump. Mark my words.
    Last edited by TysonLPrice; Apr 21st, 2021 at 04:23 PM.
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  3. #43
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Chauvin murder trial verdict / consequences

    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    ugh... I'd go further... but we're in UAT... need I say more?

    -tg
    Yeah....what's UAT?

    I guess I understand. The second and third degree murders are different aspects of the whole crime, but it also sounds like the sentencing will end up being for the second degree charge with the other two kind of 'rolled into it'.
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  4. #44
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: Chauvin murder trial verdict / consequences

    Yeah....what's UAT?
    User Acceptance Testing. In other words, TG is really busy right now as users uncover all the shoddy work he half assed on a Friday

    The policemen, in my opinion was justified
    Yeah, I deliberately avoided citing that one earlier because I think the policeman had to do something if people's lives were in danger - as such it doesn't really fall into the same category as Floyd, Wright and Toledo who were all unarmed and posed no threat.

    I'm not convinced the response had to be lethal but, as I say, it's understandable when the girls own actions could have been lethal to someone else. Black people aren't asking to be protected from the law, they're asking to be protected by it.
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  5. #45
    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
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    Re: Chauvin murder trial verdict / consequences

    I'm not convinced the response had to be lethal but
    There is a lot of that in the local news. From what I saw, and that could be misleading, the girl that was shot was actively trying to viciously stab the other girl.
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  6. #46
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: Chauvin murder trial verdict / consequences

    the girl that was shot was actively trying to viciously stab the other girl.
    Yeah, I know, and I certainly wouldn't be comfortable asserting that the officer's response didn't have to be lethal. But there are plenty of examples of situations like this being resolved non-lethally and perhaps this could have been one them, e.g. by deploying a tazer or pepper spray - or the officer simply bearing her to the ground. It's hard to know whether any of those options were viable in the moment.

    It's in that area of grey which, for me, separates it from the killings I cited in which the victims clearly weren't presenting a threat to anyone. I guess I'd say that this one was worthy of investigation but I wouldn't be surprised if that investigation vindicated the officer.
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  7. #47
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    Re: Chauvin murder trial verdict / consequences

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    Yeah, I know, and I certainly wouldn't be comfortable asserting that the officer's response didn't have to be lethal. But there are plenty of examples of situations like this being resolved non-lethally and perhaps this could have been one them, e.g. by deploying a tazer or pepper spray - or the officer simply bearing her to the ground. It's hard to know whether any of those options were viable in the moment.

    It's in that area of grey which, for me, separates it from the killings I cited in which the victims clearly weren't presenting a threat to anyone. I guess I'd say that this one was worthy of investigation but I wouldn't be surprised if that investigation vindicated the officer.
    I haven't seen the video yet, so I don't know what the distance between the officer and the decedent was. Tasers and pepper sprays may have been an option, but they do have a limited range. Pepper spray especially, they only have a range of a couple of feet. Deploying a taser, with a moving target with someone moving as fast as this person may have been moving, may have resulted in the wrong person being hit as well. So I'm not sure those two options were viable.

    -tg
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  8. #48
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    Re: Chauvin murder trial verdict / consequences

    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    I haven't seen the video yet, so I don't know what the distance between the officer and the decedent was. Tasers and pepper sprays may have been an option, but they do have a limited range. Pepper spray especially, they only have a range of a couple of feet. Deploying a taser, with a moving target with someone moving as fast as this person may have been moving, may have resulted in the wrong person being hit as well. So I'm not sure those two options were viable.

    -tg
    Yeah, tasers aren't all that great at much distance. Sometimes both prongs don't stick. Pepper spray and tasers are good in a lot of situations but I watched the video and if someone was in my face trying to stab me with a knife, I'd want the officer to shot the person. I don't want to end up with a knife in my chest because the officer was trying to discourage my attacker with pepper spray. It's always a shame when anyone has to take some ones life, I wouldn't want to ever have to make that decision but that is something an officer has to do.

  9. #49
    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
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    Re: Chauvin murder trial verdict / consequences

    From what I saw there were not any other viable alternatives. Some people are saying he should have shot her in the leg or trying to shoot the knife. That goes against generally accepted police training. The shoot at the most body mass. The girl being attacked kicked at the attacker on the first swing of the knife. She pulled back and was lunging again when the cop shot. To me he saved a life by taking her down. This was all occurring when he pulled up. The girl with the knife looked obsessed and determined to stab.
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  10. #50
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    Re: Chauvin murder trial verdict / consequences

    he should have shot her in the leg or trying to shoot the knife
    Yeah, I've heard that but those suggestions seem daft to me. This isn't a John Wayne movie and police officers shouldn't be trying out trick shots. Honestly, though, I don't think it the case we should be focussed on right now. It bears investigating but, in this case, the officer was likely justified in firing.

    What we should be talking about is why this situation merited shooting:-
    Name:  Adam Toledo.PNG
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    ...and how a 26 year veteran couldn't tell the difference between these two:-
    Name:  Tazer.PNG
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  11. #51
    PowerPoster techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: Chauvin murder trial verdict / consequences

    Indeed... that's the case that disturbs me more than the others at the moment...

    -tg
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  12. #52
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Chauvin murder trial verdict / consequences

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    User Acceptance Testing.
    Oh, testing....no wonder I didn't recognize it.

    Isn't that what users are for?
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  13. #53
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    Re: Chauvin murder trial verdict / consequences

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Oh, testing....no wonder I didn't recognize it.

    Isn't that what users are for?
    Yes... thus the U in UAT... User Acceptance Testing... the actual users are testing the recent defects we've installed in the system. It's a sort of a treasure hunt game... we hide various defects in the system, and they try to find them.

    -tg
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  14. #54
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: Chauvin murder trial verdict / consequences

    the recent defects
    You mean the negatively aspecting undocumented features, right?
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill

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  15. #55
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Chauvin murder trial verdict / consequences

    Those are FEATURES!!!!
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  16. #56
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: Chauvin murder trial verdict / consequences

    I'm a little late to the party, but I've also had time to process the Chauvin verdict. Keep in mind that I have some biases towards law enforcement in that I am no fan of law enforcement nor do I endorse the state's monopoly on violence via various enforcement agencies at the local, state, and federal levels.

    Quick side note, there is a town in the next parish over named Chauvin and it drove me nuts hearing people pronounce his name as sh-owe-vin. The "ow" pronounced like shower instead of show and the hard "n" at the end. It was like nails on a chalk board.

    To the point, I can be happy without the outcome but recognize that what happened isn't justice. When the judge stated "I have instructed the jurors not to stay up-to-date on the news and I have every reason to believe that they're following the instructions" I just rolled my eyes. With the level of coverage and reaction, how can any juror claim to not have knowledge or predisposed biases of the George Floyd situation?

    If I were wagering money, I'd bet that after the appeals, Chauvin will be acquitted on the murder charges but the manslaughter will stick and then he'll be out with time served (or nearing release).

  17. #57

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    Re: Chauvin murder trial verdict / consequences

    Apparently one of the jurors has been proven to have lied during jury interviews. He was asked if he ever attended any anti-police protest or the like either in Minneapolis or elsewhere, and he said no. And now I guess there is either video or photographic evidence that he was at an anti-police protest in Washington DC.

    I have no idea how something like that factors in to an appeal, but for God's sake, Chauvin's own mother would have probably voted to convict him. There didn't need to be people lying to get on the jury with an agenda. If the conviction is overturned it is going to be ultra-chaos, and if it was because of this one juror it didn't need to happen...

  18. #58
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    Re: Chauvin murder trial verdict / consequences

    Doesn't surprise me. Some people will do just about anything for their 15min of fame. Lying, not surprising at all. But if it is true, your right, it will cause chaos.

  19. #59

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    Re: Chauvin murder trial verdict / consequences

    An article that discusses the situation:

    https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2021/...l-experts-say/

    Hopefully there's enough plausible gray-area regarding the nature of the event that he's possibly telling the truth in his jury question/answer.

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