Why is VB.Net/C#/XAML + VS2019 is better than VB6? Here's why.....

[Niya]

Yeah, right. Once and for all. More like reignite it.

I won't bother to debate with delusion so if anyone tries to deny what their own eyes are telling them, I will say nothing because it will be self evident enough to speak for itself. And if they are serious about denying it, they can also show what they are saying to be true. You'll see what I mean. I don't want to spoil the surprise.

Also, there is the very real possibility that what I'm doing will prove my critics right. Even I don't know what the end result will be.

[yereverluvinuncleber]

I can't spend all day just debating in online forums.

Except on all my threads...where you seem to have all the time in the world.

[Niya]

If you say so.

[yereverluvinuncleber]

If you say so.

No, not for me to say. I'll leave it to fact. I definitely remember the thread hijacks, derailments and shutdowns due to you-hoo.

[Niya]

It's not my fault some of you get up in your feelings when I state facts.

[yereverluvinuncleber]

It's not my fault some of you get up in your feelings when I state facts.

What are you talking about now? I barely ever argue with you nor do I bother engaging in this pointless argument. I agree with you more often than not. I occasionally make a statement, then leave. Are you really that unaware of your own impact on this forum and the enormous amount of time you spend here?

Go visit my profile, see my posts and see when I have been in a discussion with you. It barely registers.

There are only two that bicker here, you and your VB6 counterpart, we all know who that is and you do it every time you see him, you do it everywhere and you leave little primed hand grenades to stimulate the next explosion.

You need to look in the mirror old boy. I don't think you know who you are.

[Niya]

What are you talking about now? I barely ever argue with you nor do I bother engaging in this pointless argument. I agree with you more often than not. I occasionally make a statement, then leave.

I wasn't talking about you specifically, I was referring to VB6 developers in general. More specifically, I was actually thinking more of Olaf and to a greater extreme, SDA. There is another user here called axisdj who I haven't seen in a while that also gets deep into his feelings about this topic. Dilettante is also another example though in recent years he has become more indifferent to this topic.

[yereverluvinuncleber]

I'd consider each of those chaps you mentioned intelligent and very knowledgeable about their chosen subjects, some extremely so. I wouldn't bait them as you do unless of course you consider yourself just as competent as the best of them...

I'm not surprised they have become indifferent to your arguments as you are not a person that will ever 'let go'.

[Niya]

I'd consider each of those chaps you mentioned intelligent and very knowledgeable about their chosen subjects, some extremely so. I wouldn't bait them as you do unless of course you consider yourself just as competent as the best of them...

I don't see what that has to do with this topic.

[yereverluvinuncleber]

I don't see what that has to do with this topic.

I don't see what any of your unwanted interjections had anything to do with the original purpose of my threads... but that didn't stop you.

[Shaggy Hiker]

See? So easy to get it going again.

[yereverluvinuncleber]

[ChrisE]

I'm working on something to end this debate once and for all. But I do have actual work to do. I can't spend all day just debating in online forums so it will take a while.

I wish that these Thread's ...VB6 vs. .NET would just stop. You or any other Dev. don't have to work that hard, you just have to stop creating/starting new Thread's with the Stupid Topic VB6 vs. .NET or .NET vs VB6
it's as easy as that


let's talk about makeing pancake's or what Lawnmover do you use

p.s. I love Pancakes with Maple sirup

[dday9]

Psssh, maple syrup. You’ve obviously never had Steen’s cane syrup.

[yereverluvinuncleber]

I have never used a lawnmover. I cut mine instead of relocating it.

[yereverluvinuncleber]

Psssh, maple syrup. You’ve obviously never had Steen’s cane syrup.

Local honey is better than any syrup, on a pancake with lemon juice.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I pancake my lawnmover.

[Niya]

I wish that these Thread's ...VB6 vs. .NET would just stop.

When I'm dead or when people stop the .Net bashing. The thing is, if the bashing made sense then yea but it's always disingenuous. For example, lets take the most common complaint, the size of the Framework. Many cite the size of the Framework as a valid reason to choose VB6 over .Net but it's disingenuous. You cannot complain about the size of .Net and while at the same time being a Windows user. Windows itself is massive and .Net is only a small part of it. Then we have to also consider that it's 2021 now. The run-of-the-mill hard drive today is measure in gigabytes. Let's just be hyperbolic for a second and say that the .Net Framework is 1 GB in size. It's much smaller than that in reality but lets just assume for the sake of argument it is that large. I have a cheap but modern PC with 3 hard drives. The smallest of those hard drives is 250 GB. So a 1GB Framework only takes up 0.4% of my entire hard disk space. When I install Windows 10 on a VM it comes up to about 10 GBs of space initially which is about 4% of a 250 GB hard disk. So even something as large as 10 gigabytes doesn't put a dent in even the smallest hard drives today.

What all this means is that this entire argument about .Net's size is completely invalid and anywhere I see people trying to use this garbage line of thinking to justify why VB6 is better, I will challenge it every single time because it is extremely disingenuous at best and down right malicious at worst. At the end of the day VBForums is ultimately an encyclopedia of knowledge and misleading trash like that should never ever go unchallenged in such a place.

If people love VB6 over VB.Net, that is 100% fine by me. I have zero problem with that but don't use garbage arguments like that to justify it. It is enough to say you just prefer VB6. The massive size of the Framework compared to the VB6 runtime means absolutely nothing and you do a great injustice when you pretend it does matter. This goes for just about every other argument I've seen in favor of VB6, not just the argument about the Framework's size. I won't let that slide if I'm in a position to challenge it. It isn't fair to people searching for reliable information, something I've said repeatedly.

If people were just honest and said they don't want to spend the effort to learn a new environment, then you'd get no argument from me. If they said that they liked feeling like a God because they can work miracles in VB6 and VB.Net doesn't give you the same satisfaction because all the miracles come pre-made, you'd get no argument from me. If they said they like VB6 because they are targeting Windows 95 systems with 500 MB hard drives, I won't argue with that. If they said they liked VB6 because the language is unsophisticated and easier to understand, I won't argue that. If they said that they like VB6 because they like the challenge of doing something in a more difficult and unforgiving environment, I won't challenge that. If they said they used VB6 because they can't afford the time to re-write a large VB6 application, I won't argue that. But when you start down the path of misleading potential readers by pretending thing like the Framework's size or the start up time of Visual Studio actually matters way more than it does, I will argue that because as a user of .Net environment, I know first hand that these things don't matter that much if at all. I will challenge that nonsense anywhere I see it.

You or any other Dev. don't have to work that hard

Ohh I don't mind. All of us work hard here volunteering our free time to helping total strangers on the internet, whether it's through CodeBank submissions or answering user questions. This is the same thing as far as I'm concerned.

[yereverluvinuncleber]

Same ol', same ol'.

[Niya]

Same ol', same ol'.

That's right.

[ChrisE]

Psssh, maple syrup. You’ve obviously never had Steen’s cane syrup.

nope, never heard of it, I'll see if I can get some to try

[ChrisE]

I have never used a lawnmover. I cut mine instead of relocating it.

LOL, LOL

I should have written "Rasenmäher"

[ChrisE]

Ohh I don't mind. All of us work hard here volunteering our free time to helping total strangers on the internet, whether it's through CodeBank submissions or answering user questions. This is the same thing as far as I'm concerned.

well where is that pancake recipe then if you want to help

[Schmidt]

That's right.

Niya, what you try to "cover up" (using todays Disk-Sizes and whatnot) is a simple, observable fact.

Please, for a moment - imagine yourself bringing your ridiculous arguments up in a C++ forum.

What most of these guys will tell you (regarding .NET-size) is:

Why should we use a framework that is at least an order of magnitude larger -
than our own "native frameworks", like e.g. QT (which is about 15-20MB)?

And the more experienced among them, in case you insist on evangelizing them, would tell you:

Look, little guy - it's not really about the size these days anymore, but please look at the size as a symptom.
We are more concerned about the "reasons in the underlying technology", which causes this size.

So, what do you think is wrong with .NET in this regard?
Why is it producing a fundamental framework-classlib, in a size which is at least factor 10 higher than QT?

Olaf

[Niya]

well where is that pancake recipe then if you want to help

My woman makes the pancakes. I don't know jack about it. But I can give you recipes for making Ramen noodles if you like I'm an expert there.

[Niya]

Niya, what you try to "cover up" (using todays Disk-Sizes and whatnot) is a simple, observable fact.

Please, for a moment - imagine yourself bringing your ridiculous arguments up in a C++ forum.

What most of these guys will tell you (regarding .NET-size) is:

Why should we use a framework that is at least an order of magnitude larger -
than our own "native frameworks", like e.g. QT (which is about 15-20MB)?

And the more experienced among them, in case you insist on evangelizing them, would tell you:

Look, little guy - it's not really about the size these days anymore, but please look at the size as a symptom.
We are more concerned about the "reasons in the underlying technology", which causes this size.

So, what do you think is wrong with .NET in this regard?
Why is it producing a fundamental framework-classlib, in a size which is at least factor 10 higher than QT?

Olaf

It would make sense for a C programmer to make such a point because there is a C or C++ compiler for every platform imaginable and some of these platforms will have size constraints. However, these argument make absolutely no sense whatsoever for VB6. VB6 applications are targeted at the Windows platform. Windows itself is a multi-gigabyte operating system of which only a tiny portion of that size is devoted to the .Net Framework. You act like VB6 programmers are writing programs for embedded systems like microcontrollers or something.

You know the fact that you bring up C/C++ makes me wonder if you guys really have delusions of grandeur. You guys are not C programmers. Stop pretending you're writing software to control the landing gears in modern airplanes or for guidance chips on Predator drones. You're not writing router or BIOS firmware and you're not writing drivers for the chips in microwave ovens. I'm not saying that any of you can't do any of this but if you can, you most certainly will not be doing it in VB6. Most of you write office and desktop software for Windows. Any system made to run Windows comfortably will have more than enough hard disk space for this asinine argument over the Framework's size to be a non-issue.

[Niya]

You know come to think of it, this whole argument over Framework size is actually far beyond stupid since .Net is actually a part of Windows itself. You might as well not be using Windows if you feel that strongly about it, yet you all still do. This strikes me as deeply hypocritical.

[Niya]

If you want me to concede this point about the Framework size being an issue, all you have to do is say that you're writing programs for 20 year old PCs running XP or Windows 95 that have 1 GB or less of memory and tiny hard drives also of less capacity than 1 GB. You'd get no argument from me if this is the case.

[Schmidt]

It would make sense for a C programmer to make such a point...

So, do I have this right?
C/C++ devs are allowed to ask such a reasonable question - but VB6-devs aren't because they are "too dumb"?
(to recognize, that they are using the basically same C++ compiler under the surface)...

You also avoided answering the question, so let me repeat what a C++ dev might ask you:

Look, little guy - it's not really about the size these days anymore, but please look at the size as a symptom.
We are more concerned about the "reasons in the underlying technology", which causes this size.

So, what do you think is wrong with .NET in this regard?
Why is it producing a fundamental framework-classlib, in a size which is at least factor 10 higher than QT?

Olaf

[yereverluvinuncleber]

well where is that pancake recipe then if you want to help

I have a thing for homemade raspberry jam and lemon juice on very thin pancakes. Rather tasty.

[ChrisE]

I have a thing for homemade raspberry jam and lemon juice on very thin pancakes. Rather tasty.

well that does sound good, I'll have to try the Lemon juice

[Shaggy Hiker]

This is an interesting twist on the old "It's not the size, it's how you use it" trope.

[Niya]

C/C++ devs are allowed to ask such a reasonable question - but VB6-devs aren't because they are "too dumb"?

Did you actually read what I wrote? I was very clear in what I was saying. I refuse to believe someone as intelligent as you didn't understand what I wrote so I can only conclude you are trying to avoid the point I was making with this "sleight of hand". So I re-iterate, are VB6 programmers writing programs for micro-controllers or other resource limited platforms like many C/C++ programmers do? Or are they writing Windows-only software?

[PlausiblyDamp]

One reason it is better.... https://devblogs.microsoft.com/visua...now-available/ a new version is available

[Niya]

One reason it is better.... https://devblogs.microsoft.com/visua...now-available/ a new version is available

Oh it's finally here.

And ooo look at this:-

Single-file apps (extraction-free) can be published for Linux, macOS, and Windows (previously only Linux).

Source. Single file deployment....hmmmm.

[Niya]

Oh I forgot to address this one.

Look, little guy - it's not really about the size these days anymore, but please look at the size as a symptom.
We are more concerned about the "reasons in the underlying technology", which causes this size.

Again. This is just more misdirection. Getting people to focus on issues that don't matter. The internal engineering of the libraries aren't our concern. Our only concern is that they work as intended. That is the only thing that is important. I don't care if it works by 1000 hamsters running on wheels as long as it does what I expect it to do.

[yereverluvinuncleber]

That's really good news! Sorry, I meant the lemon juice.

well that does sound good, I'll have to try the Lemon juice

It is worth trying, the lemon juice I mean.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I use it in my iced tea. It's very good.

[Niya]

You guys done talking about lemon juice and pancakes? Come on folks, I enjoy reading about your culinary adventures This is a chit chat thread after all. No need for us to be so serious all the time.

[Niya]

And I just realized. Who in God's name puts lemon juice on pancakes. What insanity is that!