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Thread: FYI: Adios

  1. #41
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    Re: FYI: Adios

    Quote Originally Posted by LaVolpe View Post
    I was in the same boat - a dinosaur. In my case, I worked for a company that did contracts for the government. So I had active clearances and there are special resources (job sites) for people with clearances. That was my only true advantage because I wasn't fluent in any other language. However, I was familiar with a few other languages.

    Recommend building a resume and describe the languages/tools you are familiar with, i.e., Visual Basic (specify if also .Net), XML, HTML, SQL, JSON, Python, MS Office, etc. There are many examples of "programmer" resumes out there. It is important to fudge a bit on the resume (but not outright lying) so that people will look at it. Once you have a resume, post it on job sites used by recruiters; google if needed. Recruiters will contact you. I gave myself 2 months to wait on recruiters contacting me. Then the plan was to go out and actively apply for specific positions. While waiting on recruiters, I was still looking for specific jobs, but not focusing on that. Messing with recruiters gives you a bit of practice "interviewing" since you've been out of that for awhile. Several different recruiters contacted me each week.

    In my case, the recruiter for the position I was hired made contact with me about one month in. At first, I turned down the job because I felt I wasn't qualified for what the job listed as "required" skills. I then got calls from the company and had a few interviews. I explained I was not familiar with the languages they needed and they would need to convince me that I was a fit for the job. They did that. They explained they were really wanting someone that was a leader, can adapt, can learn quickly, etc. It ended up the required skills weren't really required for the position after all -- that isn't too uncommon. I also emphasized that I would need ramp-up time for any new languages, but promised I'd be effective (not fluent) in a matter of a few weeks.

    The salary was a huge plus, about a 20% increase from what I was currently making. That was offered first so I didn't even try to haggle; plan on keeping job for 5-10 years at most; then retire. I was also willing to relocate if needed and that can be attractive when recruiters talk to you. Relocation isn't always an option for many people. But I spent 20 years in the military and packing up & moving is something I was comfortable with. I was 90% truthful to the recruiters and 100% truthful during any interviews.

    And just FYI. The entire process was 100% virtual. Interviews were via phone and video. It is vitally important you make a good impression, don't give them any reason to doubt your sincerity. The only time I actually met my employers in person was when I went to their office to sign the paperwork -- COVID changed things a bit.

    Dedicating ourselves to one major language is an obstacle. But another obstacle is self-imposed: thinking we are dinosaurs. We have experience, we adapt, and old dogs can learn new tricks.

    Many of the high paying jobs were focusing on "big data" via java and/or python; just more FYI.
    My CV is on a well known IT contacting website, I have several contact attemp from recruiters per month, but, I ignore them, because I feel most of it come from those freelance networks, or just scams losing my time, looking for "south american (where I am, Argentina) cheap wasteable programmers". So, I continue in my own boat, and have trusting problems to work for someone else.
    Last edited by flyguille; Feb 3rd, 2021 at 09:37 AM.

  2. #42
    Smooth Moperator techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: FYI: Adios

    Quote Originally Posted by AAraya View Post
    Keith - you've been one of the most helpful contributors on here to me over the years. Thank you so much! Your leaving will be a big loss to this forum but I understand why you have to step away.

    I'm in a very similar place... been focusing almost exclusively on VB6 for the last 20+ years. Writing my own software and selling it on the Internet as shareware/trialware. It was a great run but now with the way the industry is moving and the way the economy is moving, the income isn't enough to support me any more. I'm looking for a job also.

    I'm curious how you found a job as a senior software engineer when you acknowledge not knowing any of those new languages/technologies. Every job I'm looking at wants years of on the job experience with all of those. No one seems too impressed with my years of VB6 experience and running my own semi-successful software business. I'm feeling very much like a dinosaur. I'm doing my best to get up to speed with the new higher level languages but self-study is not the same as on the job experience.
    This is exactly why after 30 years in the MS Tech Stack, I got out of it. I took a hard right turn and exit, stage left. Fortunately I found a company willing to take a chance on me, that even though I didn't have any Java and very minimal web experience, I did have experience overall that could transfer, and that I was willing to learn new stuff, and that I was hungry for it. It did mean going from a "Sr Dev" to a "Jr Dev" and a 10% pay cut from where I was coming from at the time... but you know what? the first is just a label, and the second can be made up (which after almost 3 years I've done). I'm done climbing the ladder, I don't want to be a manager, I don't want to be a lead or anything like that, I'm a coder. I've known this for some time. The only kind of leading that I want to do or have any ambition to do is being a mentor, helping someone else learn something. And the team I'm on... I get to do all that... learn myself, while helping others learn something, while getting to do something fun and meaningful and in the process helping the lives of others (I work on a project that helps process claims for veterans for the VA).

    how you found a job as a senior software engineer when you acknowledge not knowing any of those new languages/technologies.
    The short answer - by not standing still. True self-study isn't the same as job experience. But experience is experience. Join github and find a project to become involved in. Start your own. I picked up Node.js then took my resume and converted it into an interactive Node.js version ... that allowed me to then tell interviewers "Hey, I wasn't happy with what I was/wasn't learning on my job, so I took the initiative (they love that) to learn Node, and converted my online resume using it. You can see it at xyz.com" ... That shows not only am I not just reading something, I'm applying it to something practical, but also taking initiative, I'm not sitting there waiting for someone to tell me to learn something. I saw what I wanted to know, I went out and learned it on my own. There are somethings that can be taught, languages, skills, things like that... then there are things that can't be taught... And when someone has the right combination of those things, it doesn't matter what they already know, you can fill them them with what ever knowledge they need ...

    So my advice would be to figure out what your target job would be... what is it you're after. Determine what is it you need to get that job, then start working towards is... as I mention, if you can, get involved in open source projects using the languages/technologies that you're targeting. Want to know about C#? Find a c# project. React/Redux? Find one... get involved... read about it... learn more about it, ask questions, make contributions, etc. Keep track of those contributions too... then during an interview you can say "I know I don't have much on job experience with such and such, but I have been working with project X for the last 6 months, and in that time, I've made a number of contributoins, including this, that, and the other."

    -tg
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  3. #43
    PowerPoster SamOscarBrown's Avatar
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    Re: FYI: Adios

    But worse for me is my age -- nearly 60
    Ah...you're just a child (comparably, that is).
    Sam I am (as well as Confused at times).

  4. #44
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: FYI: Adios

    Quote Originally Posted by LaVolpe View Post
    Many of the high paying jobs were focusing on "big data" via java and/or python
    You just inspired me to go learn Python. I'll try to make some time this year for it. Lucky for me, it is one of the languages supported by Visual Studio 2019 so at least I can start in a familiar environment.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

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  5. #45

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    VB-aholic & Lovin' It LaVolpe's Avatar
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    Re: FYI: Adios

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    You just inspired me to go learn Python. I'll try to make some time this year for it. Lucky for me, it is one of the languages supported by Visual Studio 2019 so at least I can start in a familiar environment.
    I first messed with Python when it was introduced via an application I supported in my job. I had to learn it well enough to troubleshoot scripts. Writing apps using Python is far more complex obviously. But honestly, anyone that considers themselves extremely experienced in VB can pick up Python without extreme effort; just takes time. It's organized a lot like VB, but obviously different class structure/syntax. Just like any new language, lots of new methods to learn. There are free IDEs out there if you don't want to use VS2019 or want to use one specifically designed for Python. I am using pyCharm. Plus, Python is quite popular now and lots of pre-built modules and install packages exist for it which makes it easier integrating it with things like web APIs, databases and more

    P.S. The one thing I truly disliked about Python before I became used to it is its use of indentation. Unlike VB where white space is mostly ignored and other languages that use { } for grouping code blocks, Python uses white space. Learn that and don't forget it. Nothing like a tab used instead of n-space keys to cause it to not run while visually the code looks ok. Coders seem to either use tabs or spaces, but not both.
    Last edited by LaVolpe; Feb 3rd, 2021 at 11:32 AM.
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  6. #46

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    Re: FYI: Adios

    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    Fortunately I found a company willing to take a chance on me, that even though I didn't have any Java and very minimal web experience, I did have experience overall that could transfer, and that I was willing to learn new stuff, and that I was hungry for it. It did mean going from a "Sr Dev" to a "Jr Dev" and a 10% pay cut from where I was coming from at the time...

    -tg
    For many of us that are a jacksof all trades and a master of just one, that's exactly what we needed: a break, a company to take a chance. That happened to me twice. This current job and my last one. That last one, the only requirement I met was VB experience, but all self-taught. I took the job on a one-year probationary case at 10K less then position paid. The deal was that if I met/exceeded expectations, I would get a 10K raise on my anniversary. I had that job for 20 years.
    Insomnia is just a byproduct of, "It can't be done"

    Classics Enthusiast? Here's my 1969 Mustang Mach I Fastback. Her sister '67 Coupe has been adopted

    Newbie? Novice? Bored? Spend a few minutes browsing the FAQ section of the forum.
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    {Alpha Image Control} {Memory Leak FAQ} {Unicode Open/Save Dialog} {Resource Image Viewer/Extractor}
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  7. #47
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    Re: FYI: Adios

    That is sad news for this forum and for VB itself. Your code underpins one of my recent utilities that needed to read and display PNG files. The amount and complexity of the code that you wrote in order to make VB6 read PNGs like they were native, was simply astounding, showing a deep knowledge of the subject and an enormous amount of work. If you ever need a reference again just send them to this forum and I am sure we will give you and your code a glowing testimonial.

    I simply could not have completed my utility without your code. Your new employer gauged your worth correctly. Good luck and let it be merely 'Adios' and not a permanent goodbye!

  8. #48
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: FYI: Adios

    Quote Originally Posted by LaVolpe View Post
    I first messed with Python when it was introduced via an application I supported in my job
    I first messed with Python on a date with a gal in the Everglades. We didn't find any pythons, but we did find one pissed off cottonmouth.

    That's a true story.

    I have a weird life.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  9. #49
    Smooth Moperator techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: FYI: Adios

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I first messed with Python on a date with a gal in the Everglades. We didn't find any pythons, but we did find one pissed off cottonmouth.

    That's a true story.

    I have a weird life.
    MY sister used to have a Ball Python... yes his name was Monty.

    -tg
    * I don't respond to private (PM) requests for help. It's not conducive to the general learning of others.*
    * I also don't respond to friend requests. Save a few bits and don't bother. I'll just end up rejecting anyways.*
    * How to get EFFECTIVE help: The Hitchhiker's Guide to Getting Help at VBF - Removing eels from your hovercraft *
    * How to Use Parameters * Create Disconnected ADO Recordset Clones * Set your VB6 ActiveX Compatibility * Get rid of those pesky VB Line Numbers * I swear I saved my data, where'd it run off to??? *

  10. #50
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    Re: FYI: Adios

    LaVolpe, thank you for your numerous contributions to this forum. I have learned so much of value from your postings. And I really appreciate your style and demeanor. You are truly a coding master, and it is unfortunate that that could not have been more immediately obvious to the employers when you were searching for a new job. I am certain based upon your postings that you will excel in every programming language you pursue.

    Best of luck! You will be missed!

  11. #51
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: FYI: Adios

    Quote Originally Posted by SeabrookStan View Post
    I am certain based upon your postings that you will excel in every programming language you pursue.
    Of this I have no doubt. LaVolpe is one of the most talented developers I have ever seen online.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  12. #52
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    Re: FYI: Adios

    La Volpe
    I second everything that is said in this thread, thank you for all your generous help and contributions.
    The hundreds and hundreds of your lvButtons in my projects already start to feel a bit lonely by now, still staying with them, did not find better.
    Only small downer: you always inevitably reminded me what a mediocre programmer I was.
    Fortunately, the days are long gone when I had to live off my programming skills.

    all the best

    l'orso
    Last edited by tubus; Feb 4th, 2021 at 05:27 AM.

  13. #53
    Software Carpenter dee-u's Avatar
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    Re: FYI: Adios

    You will surely be missed, being one of the trusted experts here. On the upside, if you will be an expert in those languages you mentioned then I know you will be able to help more people here in the forums in the future. You can also throw any problems you encounter here, so the members will help you in return.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaVolpe View Post
    P.S. The one thing I truly disliked about Python before I became used to it is its use of indentation. Unlike VB where white space is mostly ignored and other languages that use { } for grouping code blocks, Python uses white space. Learn that and don't forget it. Nothing like a tab used instead of n-space keys to cause it to not run while visually the code looks ok. Coders seem to either use tabs or spaces, but not both.
    After using Python, it was weird that I couldn't immediately pinpoint as to why the following very simple code is running an infinite loop!
    Code:
    #include <iostream>
    using namespace std;
    
    int main(){
    	int x = 1;
    
    	while (x <= 10)
    		cout << x << endl;
    		x++;
    		
    	return 0;
    }
    Regards,


    As a gesture of gratitude please consider rating helpful posts. c",)

    Some stuffs: Mouse Hotkey | Compress file using SQL Server! | WPF - Rounded Combobox | WPF - Notify Icon and Balloon | NetVerser - a WPF chatting system

  14. #54
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    Re: FYI: Adios

    Quote Originally Posted by LaVolpe View Post
    I was in the same boat - a dinosaur But worse for me is my age -- nearly 60. In my case, I worked for a company that did contracts for the government. So I had active clearances and there are special resources (job sites) for people with clearances. That was my only true advantage because I wasn't fluent in any other language. However, I was familiar with a few other languages.

    Recommend building a resume and describe the languages/tools you are familiar with, i.e., Visual Basic (specify if also .Net), XML, HTML, SQL, JSON, Python, MS Office, etc. There are many examples of "programmer" resumes out there. It is important to fudge a bit on the resume (but not outright lying) so that people will look at it. Once you have a resume, post it on job sites used by recruiters; google if needed. Recruiters will contact you. I gave myself 2 months to wait on recruiters contacting me. Then the plan was to go out and actively apply for specific positions. While waiting on recruiters, I was still looking for specific jobs, but not focusing on that. Messing with recruiters gives you a bit of practice "interviewing" since you've been out of that for awhile. Several different recruiters contacted me each week. I turned down more offers than I remember (not qualified, location, salary). During the 1.5 months I was 'looking', only a few resulted in actual interviews. That is directly attributed to our dinosaur-status I believe. Tons of jobs out there, but not in classic VB unless you want piece-meal, self-contract type work and even those aren't that plentiful.

    I was 90% truthful to the recruiters and 100% truthful during any employer interviews.

    In my case, the recruiter for the position I was hired made contact with me about one month in. At first, I turned down the job because I felt I wasn't qualified for what the job listed as "required" skills. I then got calls from the company and had a few interviews. I explained I was not familiar with many of the languages they 'required' and they would need to convince me that I was a fit for the job. They did that. They explained they were really wanting someone that was a leader, can adapt, can learn quickly, etc. It ended up the required skills weren't really required for the position after all -- that isn't too uncommon. I also emphasized that I would need ramp-up time for any new languages, but promised I'd be effective (not fluent) in a matter of a few weeks. Need to convince them that the ramp-up time is a small investment on their part.

    The salary was a huge plus, about a 20% increase from what I was currently making. That was offered first so I didn't even try to haggle; plan on keeping job for 5-10 years at most, then retire. I was also willing to relocate if needed and that can be attractive when recruiters talk to you. Relocation isn't always an option for many people. But I spent 20 years in the military and packing up & moving is something I was comfortable with. Was considering jobs in Texas, Maryland & South Carolina.

    And just FYI. The entire process was 100% virtual. Interviews were via phone and video. It is vitally important you make a good impression, don't give them any reason to doubt your sincerity. The only time I actually met my employers in person was when I went to their office to sign the paperwork -- COVID changed things a bit. Much of the paperwork was done in advance via electronic signatures.

    Many of the high paying jobs were focusing on "big data" via java and/or python; just more FYI. Regarding "self-study"... Agreed, not the same as experience. But there are sites that offer computer-based training (CBT) courses, i.e., Udemy which I was using. Most are not free, but consider it a small investment. Many of those CBTs help walk you through the new stuff. IMO, they are vastly superior in getting your feet wet since they are typically well structured and touch on so many aspects of the language. You won't become a guru using CBTs but you'll get a better feel much faster than going at it without any help. For example, a postgresql CBT took 60+ hours to finish and a python CBT about that long too, while a MacOS CBT took about 2 hours. Typically, those sites offer 1000s of CBTs and many having dozens within any specific topic.

    Dedicating ourselves to one major language is an obstacle. But another obstacle is self-imposed: thinking we are dinosaurs. We have experience, we adapt, and old dogs can learn new tricks.
    Even after he left, he is still sharing some high value advice and knowledge...

  15. #55
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    Re: FYI: Adios

    find work,or manager for company,IT'S GOOD

  16. #56
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    Re: FYI: Adios

    WHO WANT A vb6 coder by internat,please contact me

  17. #57
    Addicted Member shagratt's Avatar
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    Re: FYI: Adios

    Good Luck in your new job and thanks for everything!!! You're one of the best. You contributed so much and helped a lot of people here. I remember I started to understand GDI+ thanks to yours very detailed examples. Farewell LaVolpe!

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    Re: FYI: Adios

    Best of luck and thanks for your help over the years!

  19. #59
    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
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    Re: FYI: Adios

    Quote Originally Posted by LaVolpe View Post
    I'm leaving the VB community probably for a very long time. Want to thank everyone that has ever provided help and contributed in any way. Made me a better VB coder in so many ways.

    This may be moved by the moderators. But most people I talk with and may be interested in this farewell, live & breathe in this forum section...

    My 20-year job went away (contract position phased out) & I needed to find another which is why I haven't been around for past couple months. Job searching became my primary focus. I found another job (high paying) as a senior software engineer not far from where I'm living now -- no relocation . Any way, classic VB is off the table for me for the foreseeable future as I learn several other languages. The job is basically part of a software shop, adapting to various languages and technologies as required per incoming tasks.

    Currently, I'm focusing now on python, java, postgresql, restapi, and more. My learning curve is high so I won't have the time to participate here for quite some time, if at all.

    Been a pleasure and informative. Wish you all the best.

    Keith (aka LaVolpe)
    Good luck and hope your new position works out for you.
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  20. #60
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    Re: FYI: Adios

    Keep us updated!

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    Re: FYI: Adios

    hopefully everything is working out in the new workplace.
    don't be a stranger!

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    Re: FYI: Adios

    Quote Originally Posted by Erwin69 View Post
    Even after he left, he is still sharing some high value advice and knowledge...
    Yes , I second that

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    Re: FYI: Adios

    Believe me , we are really sad we will miss you here . I find no words to thank you enough for these years helping us and me especially . Keep around here from time to time just to let us know you are fine . All respect and good luck Keith . We love you .

  24. #64
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    Re: FYI: Adios

    Keith, there’s no breakup here. You are always present in my mind in every working day. To me (and probably many others), your sharing in this forum is invaluable. Good luck with your new job. We’ll always miss you

    Best regards,
    FerrMask
    Last edited by ferrmask; Mar 18th, 2022 at 01:43 AM.

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    Re: FYI: Adios

    Greetings! When I was learning VB I looked at a lot of your code on PSC. Turned it into a carreer and since retired. Thanks. But... my house burned and PSC was my only off site backup. I have searched for one zip file I am desperate for and thought maybe you might remember it or help me find it. Its from early 2019 and was posted as

    FOLLOW ME: Game Animation Art Workspace

    The wayback archive here:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20190413...75379&lngWId=1

    but no zip file

    Thanks in advance for any help

  26. #66
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: FYI: Adios

    I doubt he still comes here. The last time he touched these forums was in September 8th, 2021. Keep your fingers crossed though.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

    Copy/move files using Windows Shell | I'm not wanted

    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  27. #67
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    Re: FYI: Adios

    don't we have PSC thread somewhere?
    do a google search to this forum. I think I saw somewhere they have downloadable links, like backups of PSC.
    join the pandemic discussion here: https://discord.gg/Zhx7aJZRMh (no longer available in vbforums)

  28. #68
    New Member
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    May 2022
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    Re: FYI: Adios

    Quote Originally Posted by baka View Post
    don't we have PSC thread somewhere?
    do a google search to this forum. I think I saw somewhere they have downloadable links, like backups of PSC.
    Yes, thanks, I have searched everything I could find in the links. The only hope I have is that with over 2000 hits on the code, someone might still have it. Can't remember for sure but I think the zip was something like Games.zip with added numbers of course. The screenshot was swirling game pieces in the shape of an old pistol.

    Thanks in advance for any replies

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