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Thread: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

  1. #121

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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Quote Originally Posted by DllHell View Post
    Sounds like you need a webapp. Tons of choice there. Even something established like php+symfony would probably get you there.
    I was thinking about asking advice about that. It is OT but here it goes:
    I have decided to start studying web technology.
    My "requirement" is to invest time on well stablished OSS that cannot happen what happened to VB6.
    How could I start "grabbing that bull by it horms"?

    What to read about? Buy a book or read online tutorials?
    HTML5, JavaScrip, PHP, MySQL? What else, Python?
    Other things? Any framework?
    How to start. Just reading? With a small project? (I don't currently have one).

  2. #122
    PowerPoster techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    I understand that some of you are more scripting guys and jump from one platform to another with no trouble. By others ones involve in large projects, spend many years learning something, like to go deep into the things.
    Some are technicians , other ones are small projects developers, but other ones because of personalities, personal preferences or whatever don't like to jump from one thing to another all the time.

    Sometimes I read resumes from people that say they know several different languages/platforms. Then I think they must be not experts in anything.
    OR... we evolve and change our expertise over time. I've been doing programming for 40ish years... should I have been programming in the same language in all this time? If so that would be Apple BASIC. That was the first thing I learned. Besides, it's not about being an expert, it's about being proficient and being able to do the job. And sometimes, it's also about being being able to do something meaningful. The kind of work I do now I wouldn't be able to do if I had stuck to the Microsoft Tech Stack. There is nothing wrong with working with multiple languages or platforms.

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  3. #123

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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    OR... we evolve and change our expertise over time. I've been doing programming for 40ish years... should I have been programming in the same language in all this time? If so that would be Apple BASIC. That was the first thing I learned. Besides, it's not about being an expert, it's about being proficient and being able to do the job. And sometimes, it's also about being being able to do something meaningful. The kind of work I do now I wouldn't be able to do if I had stuck to the Microsoft Tech Stack.
    As I said: we are not the same way.

    I am not even saying that some kind is better than the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    There is nothing wrong with working with multiple languages or platforms.

    -tg
    Of course not. But sometimes people that finished a career one year ago list like 5 languages. I know how it takes to handle more or less in depth one (and not every feature that it has).

  4. #124
    Frenzied Member PlausiblyDamp's Avatar
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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    "Open"? It is all based on .NET framework. MS can me it not to work on Windows at any time if they wanted.
    What I said stands. (Go web and OSS).
    https://github.com/dotnet - I would say that is pretty "Open".

  5. #125

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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Quote Originally Posted by PlausiblyDamp View Post
    https://github.com/dotnet - I would say that is pretty "Open".
    I already answered to that:

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    It doesn't matter for me any more. If I have the choice, I don't want MS.
    Anyway, if you develop in VB WPF, is it open? (IDE, all the development environment, etc.).

  6. #126
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    I think the best bet is to go to cloud based apps, making web apps that run in a browser or apps consuming web-apis with some front-end for every specific device.

    Is the fist option the best one? Or the second?

    If it is the first, what technologies to use. You say JavaScript is declining. Then what?

    I would not choose any more a propietary technology that could be discontinued by the maker company.

    PS: of course, it has turned off-topic already, but interesting (while we wait for the investor for the VB6+ FOSS project).
    I wasn't saying that JS was declining. It is not. I think people just recognize that JS, as it currently stands, could be improved upon. That improvement is starting to appear with WASM. Currently, all WASM implementations work WITH JS, and generally require JS to some extent, but I expect that to go away, eventually. When (and if) it does, then JS might fall away, as well. After all, JS does things like minifying to reduce the size of the payload because the web is necessarily over a network (I suppose it doesn't HAVE to be, but the exception is trivial). A WASM approach would be focused on a far smaller payload size, potentially.

    So, while JS is not declining, it has some issues that have long been known, and an alternative is beginning to emerge. If it takes off, then JS could fade away.

    Also, not every solution CAN be web or cloud based. I'm working on one that cannot: An application based on third party plugins. Such an application can't be turned into a web application and retain the characteristics it must have.
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  7. #127
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    Anyway, if you develop in VB WPF, is it open? (IDE, all the development environment, etc.).
    Technically, you don't need the IDE to be open source for .NET. You can develop a .NET app entirely in Notepad, if you happened to be insane. The code is just text like any other text, and can be viewed/written/edited using any text editor. Naturally, you don't get all the advantages of an IDE, but it also means that ANYBODY can write an IDE that will work for it.

    I was using a code generator. You made selections, and it generated all the code. It was just strings. Even the generator templates were just text files. The generated project could then be opened in the IDE to do testing and make changes, but at any time you could re-generate. To put it lightly, there are issues with that approach, but it does work.
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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    wpf is open source https://github.com/dotnet/wpf

    as is winforms https://github.com/dotnet/winforms/

    and vscode is open source and multiplatform https://github.com/microsoft/vscode


    But none of that matters for some people because microsoft = bad

  9. #129
    Frenzied Member PlausiblyDamp's Avatar
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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    I already answered to that:

    Anyway, if you develop in VB WPF, is it open? (IDE, all the development environment, etc.).
    VSCode - https://github.com/microsoft/vscode - core IDE, core language support for VB etc

    If I was going cross platform I would probably consider https://github.com/AvaloniaUI/Avalonia rather than WPF these days and there is a VSCode plugin at https://github.com/ShadowDancer/PimpMyAvalonia

  10. #130
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Yeah, that's the lesson that was learned, but it was the wrong lesson. The lesson should be: If you build upon something that is dependent upon something else, you need to hedge against the failure of that something else.

    That lesson goes well beyond programming, but it certainly applies. Open source is a partial solution to that, but everybody knows that open source doesn't do all that much for you unless you, yourself, are willing to carry it forwards if nobody else does. Otherwise, your best bet is to rely on the largest, most stable, base you can find. We've all seen how that can fail, though. MS is a very large company that has usually committed to backwards compatibility, but in VB6 we have an example of them abandoning the tool itself, though it still runs and that which was created by the tool still runs. Apple is also a very large company, but there are a couple times in the history of Apple where they changed course far more dramatically, potentially cutting loose rafts of software. Delphi is a fairly large group, but I understand they introduced some breaking changes to the language at a couple points in the past, thereby cutting off those who didn't upgrade.

    This industry is based on change. Programs may keep going for 10 years, or they may not. We don't expect the hardware to stay the same for 10 years. Performance will increase, hardware will change character, new technology will come along, old will turn into backwaters. Some of those backwaters will be lucrative (COBOL coders leading up to Y2K, for example), others will fade away completely (palette swapping techniques for graphical effects using 256 color VGA). It's an inherently risky business. Change is rapid and abandons people without remorse.
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  11. #131

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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Quote Originally Posted by DllHell View Post
    But none of that matters for some people because microsoft = bad
    Exactly.

    I was just curious, asked just for general knowledge.

  12. #132

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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    I was thinking about asking advice about that. It is OT but here it goes:
    I have decided to start studying web technology.
    My "requirement" is to invest time on well stablished OSS that cannot happen what happened to VB6.
    How could I start "grabbing that bull by it horms"?

    What to read about? Buy a book or read online tutorials?
    HTML5, JavaScrip, PHP, MySQL? What else, Python?
    Other things? Any framework?
    How to start. Just reading? With a small project? (I don't currently have one).
    Any thoughts on this? (or just on a thing, even a small one).

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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    Any thoughts on this? (or just on a thing, even a small one).
    you might start with excellent Gossamer project on these forums (https://www.vbforums.com/showthread....her-Web-Server). The code is easy enough to navigate and you will start the see the basics of all web tech (GETs POSTs etc) in a familiar environment.

    After that, it is really just the language you want to use. There is no correct answer but python seems to be getting more and more popular which means you will find lots of resources online and else where as you are learning and experimenting. And the Flask framework for python is quite easy to get up and running.

  14. #134

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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Quote Originally Posted by DllHell View Post
    you might start with excellent Gossamer project on these forums (https://www.vbforums.com/showthread....her-Web-Server). The code is easy enough to navigate and you will start the see the basics of all web tech (GETs POSTs etc) in a familiar environment.
    But I already know GETs POSTs and related things. I have been working with them in VB6. Calling websites APIs, oauth2, etc.
    I'm not asking for a VB6 project, bus as a OT, some advice on what technology to study to start to learn web-apps programming (and what first, how to start).

    Quote Originally Posted by DllHell View Post
    After that, it is really just the language you want to use. There is no correct answer but python seems to be getting more and more popular which means you will find lots of resources online and else where as you are learning and experimenting. And the Flask framework for python is quite easy to get up and running.
    Just to learn Python, not HTML5, JavaScript, PHP, MySQL?
    I need to make some kind of plan about how to start and where to go at the end.

    I have read recently some online tutorials about responsive desing and progressive enhancement and it seemed to me a bit hard, no too clear or well explained (I mention it just as an example). They wasn't as clear as when I learned VB6 with books.

    I would prefer explanations that start with "hello world" things.

    And the options are so huge that I feel a bit overwhelmed about how to start "this battle".

    Thanks anyway.

  15. #135
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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    I was thinking about asking advice about that. It is OT but here it goes:
    I have decided to start studying web technology.
    My "requirement" is to invest time on well stablished OSS that cannot happen what happened to VB6.
    How could I start "grabbing that bull by it horms"?

    What to read about? Buy a book or read online tutorials?
    HTML5, JavaScrip, PHP, MySQL? What else, Python?
    Other things? Any framework?
    How to start. Just reading? With a small project? (I don't currently have one).
    Instead of going for OSS tools completely check out Wappler we are currently evaluating it for our upcoming web project. I think it is very powerful low code solution for developing web apps.

    One thing that I liked the most about Wappler is that it makes it easy to build web apps in either PHP or NodeJS and also make it easy to build hybrid mobile apps. Personally I feel this approach will not force you to learn all the nitty gritty of web development at this stage, because when it comes to web one will have to learn plethora of technologies and tools to build just a simple app for example Bootstrap/Material for looks, JavaScript for user interaction and PHP/C#/VB.NET/Python/Ruby/etc. for server side scripting then for database MySQL/PostgreSQL/MongoDB/etc.

    If you want you can also look up Wakands which is said to be open source development tool for building NodeJS based web and mobile apps.
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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    So, while JS is not declining, it has some issues that have long been known, and an alternative is beginning to emerge. If it takes off, then JS could fade away.
    Which new alternate to JS is emerging?
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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    @Eduardo-,

    If you want to stick to BASIC language development tools then B4X is the best bet. Especially B4J with AB Material which can be found here.

    It is probably the easiest way to build web impressive applications.
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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Quote Originally Posted by IndicSoftware View Post
    @Eduardo-,

    If you want to stick to BASIC language development tools then B4X is the best bet. Especially B4J with AB Material which can be found here.

    It is probably the easiest way to build web impressive applications.
    No... I'm totally open now.
    I prefer to learn mainstream technology (but not proprietary).
    I used to dislike very much semicoloms and curly brackets, but I'm open to get used to that too (I think... anyway I will need to).

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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    For frontend (the web page) HTML+CSS+JavaScript is the base, for backend - Node.js (JavaScript), TypeScript (typed JavaScript), Go, Python, Java, Scala, Kotlin and many other choices (including hated .NET C#).

    Frontend UI frameworks are JavaScript based so you really need to learn a bit of JS to make your life easier. React, Angular, Vue and others.

    I've listed languages and frameworks that are used by the big companies, open sourced and there are thousands of videos and tutorials. The hard part is to choose one of many.

    Creating web apps sometimes is not just frontend and backend. When you hit more load and more users, you have to scale the app and there are again many choices how to do it.

    That's why choosing the right platform and tech stack is important. It is not just the language (not to mess with libraries and frameworks as many do in this forum). Operating system, load balancers, web servers for static content, web services platform that the frontend will use, SQL and NoSQL databases, horizontal vs vertical scaling architecture, containers, replication, messaging, web sockets, CRUD vs event sourced architecture, ...

    You can start with JavaScript to see how frontend works and how you can access backend web services. Then use Node.js to create some small JavaScript services that will be used by the frontend. Or just go with TypeScript where variables can be statically typed.

    And if I was you, I will go with virtual machine with Ubuntu or Linux Mint (Ubuntu based but with much better user experience for my taste), VSCode (with proper extensions) as development environment and just install the toolset for the specific language development.
    Last edited by peterst; Jan 27th, 2021 at 02:12 AM.

  20. #140

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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Thanks peterst, then first to learn is JavaScript.

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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    Thanks peterst, then first to learn is JavaScript.
    You will need it for everything to customize the frontend. All these UI frameworks are written in JS as it is the native language in the web page alongside with HTML and CSS.

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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Quote Originally Posted by DllHell View Post
    Javascript isn't declining.

    And if we could set aside our hate for .net, you would find an open source compiler (roslyn), an open language spec, and lots of exciting projects like blazor.
    Hi DllHell, do you know that there is an open source code editor similar to Monaco-Editor developed in C# or Java?
    Last edited by SearchingDataOnly; Jan 27th, 2021 at 05:16 AM.

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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Eduardo, Semicoloms (sic) and curly brackets are just two things you are going to have to get use to in the .js and PHP web world. I wouldn't bother with looking for an IDE for .js. as good ones that resemble VB6's IDE seem to be thin on the ground. I have been using an advanced code editor called RJTextEd for all my creations. I gave you a link via PM to the RJTExtEd forum so you could see what could be created using RJTextEd. I'll give it to you again, https://www.rj-texted.se/Forum/viewt...143c2e7af1dd15. Go and pick it up. It is free, under continuous development and better still, the dev is extremely responsive to support requests. It seems to be based upon the older advanced editor called Context but is much more advanced than that now.

    I used Photoshop as my IDE, it is superior to VB6's IDE, you just have to get used to the concept of layers rather than objects. A simple script to convert the layers into objects and then RJTextEd to add the logic. How you test and debug is up to you... You may not enjoy working with the web as it is a frustrating environment and feels 'messy'.

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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    No... I'm totally open now.
    I prefer to learn mainstream technology (but not proprietary).
    I used to dislike very much semicoloms and curly brackets, but I'm open to get used to that too (I think... anyway I will need to).
    I think the developer of ABMaterial is planning to open source it , I know B4J is free but i'm not fully certain if it is open source or not.

  25. #145
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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo- View Post
    Thanks peterst, then first to learn is JavaScript.
    I wouldn't go right there. Frankly, I think you would hate JS. It's a language to swear at, rather than by. It IS underlying much of the web, so you pretty much have to learn it to one extent or another, but I'm not sure that many people use straight JS. Most probably use something built on JS, such as JQuery (old, but still good), React (I haven't used it, but have heard good things), Angular (seems like a more closed type of knowledge), TypeScript (still JS, but with strong typing built on top of it, so more familiar to those who use strongly typed languages), or....well, I know I'm forgetting one of the major ones, but...I don't remember what I'm forgetting.

    If you use anything other than TypeScript, you'll see the joy and the pain that is JS (you'll see a bit of it with TypeScript, too). It's an intriguing language in many ways, but intriguing...isn't always what you want. On the other hand, one flavor or another is certainly the biggest game in town.
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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I wouldn't go right there. Frankly, I think you would hate JS...
    Basic to intermediate JS knowledge is important if someone will do some frontend web development. Any time you need to do something more in the web page, the frameworks are not enough and some JS is required to put here and there.

    For backend development there are so many platforms. And with some initial knowledge of JS for the frontend why not to try Node.js for backend? Then move to TypeScript and see the improvements. This is not wasted time as JS can be used in both cases. The platforms are free and open sourced, including VSCode which is written mainly in TypeScript + JavaScript + Electron as UI library.

    I also don't like JS. But people at V8 (the JavaScript engine) made miracles to make it work fast and well. And when web pages are involved - JS is not an option, it is obligatory knowledge.

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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Quote Originally Posted by peterst View Post
    Basic to intermediate JS knowledge is important if someone will do some frontend web development. Any time you need to do something more in the web page, the frameworks are not enough and some JS is required to put here and there.

    For backend development there are so many platforms. And with some initial knowledge of JS for the frontend why not to try Node.js for backend? Then move to TypeScript and see the improvements. This is not wasted time as JS can be used in both cases. The platforms are free and open sourced, including VSCode which is written mainly in TypeScript + JavaScript + Electron as UI library.

    I also don't like JS. But people at V8 (the JavaScript engine) made miracles to make it work fast and well. And when web pages are involved - JS is not an option, it is obligatory knowledge.


    I had to abandon VB6, but continue to support the projects already done in VB6, indeed, I had to link the VB6 code functionality, to a web server using PHP (the problem is that most webhosting will allow to run an PHP thread only up to 30 min and then the thread will be killed don't matter what it was doing, it is a rule that they control, you can't change that, it can be cut in the middle of anything, so is needed to write PHP and procedures in general knowing that fact),,... php uses sockets which accept connections from VB6, throgh normal tcp sockets is enabled lots of WEB/ONLINE functionality interaction with the vb6 original program, so build a communication API in PHP (beware of UNICODE string <- -> utf8) expected in the PHP side, then for frontend, I first tryed to write it also in PHP, but the browser reloading and navigate in dozens of .php for any little functionality, reloading the website again and again, is a big NONO, so then jumped to ANGULAR 10, angular is another hassle, overall if it brings bugs in develop stage, as I knew C++, watching and understand JS is very easy, and so typescript it is almost the same, the only difficult is to learn the angular framework, to familiarize with structures of HTML5 and his tricks to visual position annidated <DIV> and so, anyway I hate to do front-end stuff, since VB6, I am more a backend guy.

    But, by decades I refused to change the VB6 language as my main, only the demand cracked my mind and moved me to go for more recent stuff.

    If it is done a TWING VB lang that don't requiere to convert dozens of lines of code, and open the world to real UNICODE UI+better handling of forms DPI, and full support UWP, compile as UWP, the new Win10X maybe it is the barrier that will FORCE to really escape from the old VB6.
    Last edited by flyguille; Jan 27th, 2021 at 12:56 PM.

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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Meanwhile, here I am learning VB6 for the second time, enjoying it and getting into it, looking around and seeing the possibilities of RADBasic and TwinBasic (and Olaf's opus) and thinking this is potentially one of the best times to be diving into VB6. It seems to have a future for the first time in ages.

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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Anytime I mention PHP, I always expect the federales to be kicking down my door.
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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Anytime I mention PHP, I always expect the federales to be kicking down my door.
    Or if you want to really mix things up https://www.peachpie.io/

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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    If you use anything other than TypeScript, you'll see the joy and the pain that is JS (you'll see a bit of it with TypeScript, too). It's an intriguing language in many ways, but intriguing...isn't always what you want. On the other hand, one flavor or another is certainly the biggest game in town.
    I swear to God, if I met the person that invented JavaScript, I'd gun them down in the street like a degenerate. OMG I hate working in that language.

    Funny thing though, I love the idea and concept of JavaScript. It's marriage to HTML through the DOM is one of the most clever things I have ever seen. It is so powerful and very intuitive to use. You feel like you can do just about anything. I also love the concept of AJAX. You can do some pretty clever things with that. JavaScript itself is a very expressive language. Functions are first class citizens in JavaScript, an idea I learned to love in VB.Net. Functional constructs like LINQ are possible in JavaScript. It's C based syntax make it very possible to express things in a concise manner.

    So why do I hate working with it? Duck typing. 90% of the reason I hate working in JS is because of it's duck typing. This was such a stupid design choice that I have no idea how it was so widely accepted. It's just so easy to make errors in a JavaScript program that appear to be correct. JS programs are very quick to become unwieldly and damn near impossible to debug. For all of the great designs it has, for me, duck typing over-shadows all of the good and it's the reason I will avoid it like the plague when I can.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena


    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. -jmcilhinney

  32. #152
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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    The biggest disappointment of the decade in the programming world was when that massive source code dump of Windows didn't include the source of msvbvm60.dll... we really could have used that runtime.

    Going from 16-bit VB3 to 32-bit VB4 was a bit of a bump but didn't change too radically, and could still run VB3 code with only the most minor of changes. Later, VB5/6 didn't require too much change in VB4 projects to port over; I'd really hope a true successor to VB6 followed the same pattern: Expanding the capabilities. Code requiring a bare minimum of changes to still be function, even for complex projects.

    Without that, might as well switch to a BASIC-like language that's not VB at all, which is really what .NET was. Unless your project was extremely simple, porting to .NET was definitely not automatic, and the language was so radically different you'd often be better off rebuilding from scratch rather than porting-- especially projects heavy in using subclassing, Windows APIs, and COM interfaces.
    If people want to create a whole new type of BASIC, that's great, but should be something else entirely. If we're working on a followup to Visual Basic 6.0, which I'd hope is the goal, it should be a de facto Visual Basic 7.

    A true successor to VB6 in contrast to .NET or another BASIC language that's not MS' VB, should start from being able to compile VB6 code, with extremely limited changes that can't be handled automatically by an automatic updater. I think if everyone could agree with that, it would be a good first step to getting everyone on the same page to unite behind a single project.


    ---
    TwinBasic looks very promising.

    They've got 64-bit vars, but it doesn't seem like the very biggest missing types was addressed... **unsigned** types for working with APIs.

  33. #153
    Member IndicSoftware's Avatar
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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I wouldn't go right there. Frankly, I think you would hate JS. It's a language to swear at, rather than by. It IS underlying much of the web, so you pretty much have to learn it to one extent or another, but I'm not sure that many people use straight JS. Most probably use something built on JS, such as JQuery (old, but still good), React (I haven't used it, but have heard good things), Angular (seems like a more closed type of knowledge), TypeScript (still JS, but with strong typing built on top of it, so more familiar to those who use strongly typed languages), or....well, I know I'm forgetting one of the major ones, but...I don't remember what I'm forgetting.

    If you use anything other than TypeScript, you'll see the joy and the pain that is JS (you'll see a bit of it with TypeScript, too). It's an intriguing language in many ways, but intriguing...isn't always what you want. On the other hand, one flavor or another is certainly the biggest game in town.
    I had received a suggestion from one of our newly recruited web developer that those who are not familiar with JS but are comfortable to learn other programming languages should have a look at Web Builder from Elevate Software.

    I checked it out and was surprised to find a dev tool that allowed me to progam in Pascal and spit out JS.

    It is really interesting though we are not using it at present.
    --
    For,
    Indic Software

    Murphy's law: Logic is a way of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence !!!

  34. #154
    Member IndicSoftware's Avatar
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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    So why do I hate working with it? Duck typing. 90% of the reason I hate working in JS is because of it's duck typing. This was such a stupid design choice that I have no idea how it was so widely accepted. It's just so easy to make errors in a JavaScript program that appear to be correct. JS programs are very quick to become unwieldly and damn near impossible to debug. For all of the great designs it has, for me, duck typing over-shadows all of the good and it's the reason I will avoid it like the plague when I can.
    While VB is case insensitive JS is case sensitive so the problem. To over come this use a good editor like VS code which has very good auto complete feature and supports multiple JS frameworks.

    But personally after trying my hands on Wappler I can say that it the way to go as we can achieve so many things without dirtying our hands and bogging our minds. Actually Wappler is going to be our direct competitor in near future.

    As we are going to release one such web app development tool where user will not have to code one single line to develop a functional web app be it ERP or Invoicing or CRM or anything. In fact I can go to the lenght to say that you do not need to know any thing about web development to build web app based on Bootstrap, JS, PHP and MySQL.

    Actually we have been providing business solutions to corporate world built in VB6 since 2000.

    We have built a tool using VB6 for our in-house use. By using this tool we can create a basic business app without coding by just defining database structure in RDBMS (in our case it is Oracle) and setting which field is required and which is not, etc. This means most of the work is achieved by just point and click. Because of this tool we are able to provide the first working beta of an ERP solution (having 200+ input forms) in 30 working days! Till date we have developed and implemented around 38 ERP solutions in various industry verticals withing 90 working days max.

    Our new web tool dev tool is revolving around this original tool. This time we have taken the decision to release this tool in open market so other developers can build web app without hassle and brain burns.

    But, but, before we release this tool we are on verge of releasing a Visual development tool similar to VB coming month.

    I will post more on this later if there is any interest on this forums.
    --
    For,
    Indic Software

    Murphy's law: Logic is a way of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence !!!

  35. #155
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Quote Originally Posted by fafalone View Post
    TwinBasic looks very promising.

    They've got 64-bit vars, but it doesn't seem like the very biggest missing types was addressed... **unsigned** types for working with APIs.
    Then get involved. Say something. Now is the best time as it's currently being developed.

    2 weeks ago he released another preview video and I made suggestions which he responded to. You can see it here. I am XNiya in the comment section.

    You guys wanted this for so long and finally it looks like someone is making it happen. Now is not the time to stay quiet. The developer is obviously interested in listening to feedback so give him some.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena


    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. -jmcilhinney

  36. #156
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Quote Originally Posted by IndicSoftware View Post
    While VB is case insensitive JS is case sensitive so the problem. To over come this use a good editor like VS code which has very good auto complete feature and supports multiple JS frameworks.

    But personally after trying my hands on Wappler I can say that it the way to go as we can achieve so many things without dirtying our hands and bogging our minds. Actually Wappler is going to be our direct competitor in near future.
    Sounds interesting. I'll have to look into that. Been a minute since I dealt with JavaScript.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena


    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. -jmcilhinney

  37. #157
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    I am XNiya in the comment section.
    You put on a pair of glasses, like that, and NOBODY will recognize you.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  38. #158
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    You put on a pair of glasses, like that, and NOBODY will recognize you.
    lmao...

    Quote Originally Posted by fafalone View Post
    TwinBasic looks very promising.

    They've got 64-bit vars, but it doesn't seem like the very biggest missing types was addressed... **unsigned** types for working with APIs.
    BTW, I asked on YouTube about TwinBasic having unsigned types and he responded. Didn't even take that long to get feedback. Get involved!

    His response:-
    Hi! They won't be in the very first release, but they are high on the to-do list. They can be implemented quite easily, it's just the thousands of tests that need to be written to ensure we offer correct and full support for them that will take a bit of time. I would estimate they'll be available in TwinBasic about a month after the initial release.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena


    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. -jmcilhinney

  39. #159
    Addicted Member Episcopal's Avatar
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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    You guys wanted this for so long and finally it looks like someone is making it happen. Now is not the time to stay quiet. The developer is obviously interested in listening to feedback so give him some.
    Thank ... Niya .... For contributing and for this word.

  40. #160
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Is the VB6 community capable to grab the bull by its horns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Episcopal View Post
    Thank ... Niya .... For contributing and for this word.
    I was actually thinking about making a thread here specifically for communication with the developers. However, based on my experiences with members here on the topic of VB6 and it's place in the world, I don't think it would be a good idea. It would be disastrous in fact. Some here people give me the impression that they care more about complaining that MS chose .Net over VB6 than actually doing anything about it and then there would be some outrageous demands. People are going to start making big demands like wanting it to run on Android or Linux. Some might even demand he develop an entire stack for web development. People are going to ask for all kinds of crazy things. Some are going to disagree and the whole thing would devolve into a grudge match of mudslinging. I like Wayne Phillips(TwinBasic's developer). I think he is a solid dude and I don't want to subject him to all that. If he chooses to engage on his own accord, that's fine but I am not gonna be the one to pull the trigger on that. I'll continue throwing out little suggestions here and there when he releases new videos on YouTube.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena


    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. -jmcilhinney

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